Match Thread: Liverpool v Wigan [All Pre/During/After Match Discussion]

whatawaster

mike65 wrote: »

Agger is quality, he is understandibly rusty, remember how bad Hyypia was when he suddenly had to fill for Agger last season? It look him a good 4/5 games before he had shaken the rust.

Anyway, Liverpool must stop winning coming back from a goal down. Down with that sort of thing.

Alonso is a magnet for red cards.

Mike

true. we won't get away with this next week

Squirrel

Tusky wrote: »

deja vu. Another 3-2 come back and another player sent off for tackling Alonso. Thats the 3rd time this year someone has been sent off for fouling him!

Is it not 4?

Vidic - I think?
Zabbaletta
Cahill
Valencia today

Tusky

What I also found interesting was Rafa taking off the two full backs and putting on two wingers. We played with Keane, Kuyt, Pennant, El Zhar, Benayoun, Riera and Gerrard on the pitch - 7 attacking players.

Squirrel wrote: »

Is it not 4?

Vidic - I think?
Zabbaletta
Cahill
Valencia today

Yeah it is four, mine was a typo.

whatawaster

i think Alonso has been fouled so much because he still has a tendency to dawdle on the ball

mike65

Alonso "protects" the ball and so draws a foul from behind/side-on

Sell Keane buy Zaki!

Mike

Squirrel

Tusky wrote: »

What I also found interesting was Rafa taking off the two full backs and putting on two wingers. We played with Keane, Kuyt, Pennant, El Zhar, Benayoun, Riera and Gerrard on the pitch - 7 attacking players.



Yeah it is four, mine was a typo.

Did anyone see the article about Alonso being targetted? It was on the Liverpoolfc.tv message boards there the other week.

But matches like that aren't good for the health. God no

whatawaster

mike65 wrote: »

Alonso "protects" the ball and so draws a foul from behind/side-on

Mike

He's going to get a broken leg if he keeps "protecting" it like that

turly

whatawaster wrote: »

to be fair to agger he made the first goal.

Yeah, Wigan's. :mad:

Still though, nice comeback - but not good for the ould tickers.

Now for a decent Grand Prix (don't care who wins), y Visca el Barca dema!

evil_seed

athletico & chelsea will win easy if we play like that against them. 3 more points, gotta be happy with that. kuyt hitting a bit of form , gotta be happy with that.... but another anonymous performance from robbie. i guess i'm picking on him. i don't know

Gareth37

The referees must be fixing the matches. Every week the decisions get stranger and stranger?

Hardly no draws up until this week and then this week nothing but draws. Whats going on?

~Rebel~

Gareth37 wrote: »

The referees must be fixing the matches. Every week the decisions get stranger and stranger?

Hardly no draws up until this week and then this week nothing but draws. Whats going on?

Well nothing but draws is a bit of a stretch, 3wins, 3 draws. But yeah it is odd to see 3 games in a day (out of only 6 so far) end in 0-0. Worth a cheeky punt on 0-0 in the united match i wonder?

mayordenis

Gareth37 wrote: »

The referees must be fixing the matches. Every week the decisions get stranger and stranger?

Hardly no draws up until this week and then this week nothing but draws. Whats going on?

what are you on about??

Firstly this is a match thread,
so if your talking about the referee's deicisions in this game he made one major error which was not putting the liverpool free forward for ridiculous dissent by wigan.

Draws this week 3 from 6 but I think it is a conspiracy . . .

rossie1977

PHB wrote: »

He scored a brace against a top 4 team with a poor team? Gee I don't know.

better not let any man city fans hear you say that

mike65

Gareth37 likes a conspiracy I think.

Mike

dfx-

I call the first to say "the comebacks could never last" when Chelsea win 1-0..


Alonso gets tackled because he can shift the ball so quickly and with subtlety rather than go into a 50/50 so that the ball is no longer where the lunge was aimed and his legs get the full force.

spockety

Rafa agrees with Wigan's grievance that the first yellow should not have been given, as he ran forward after alonso touched the ball.

However, he tempers it by saying that as far as he is concerned the tackle on Alonso should have been a straight red for sure, so the sending off would have happened anyway in his book.

Thrill

Gareth37 wrote: »

The referees must be fixing the matches. Every week the decisions get stranger and stranger?

Hardly no draws up until this week and then this week nothing but draws. Whats going on?

Nothing unusual about this week.

Sunday 31th august, 3 games played, 2 draws.
Sunday 21th September, 5 games played, 3 draws

oobydooby

dfx- wrote: »

Alonso gets tackled because he can shift the ball so quickly and with subtlety rather than go into a 50/50 so that the ball is no longer where the lunge was aimed and his legs get the full force.

Good point. Also this idea that the best way to deal with his threat is to get up and at him. Or that he's too slow:rolleyes:

woodyg

just like the ireland result durring the week we played ****e but got the 3 points so i'm happy enough with that! yes we aren't playing well but isn't it a good sign for any team to win when playing poor but still get the points.
joint top, unbeaten, scoring goals, not letting the head drop when behind it's all good things. Granted i'll agree with people it ain't good for the ticker!

tibor

missingtime

Yeay! We won.

Cant take anymore of these comebacks. It's gonna get to the stage when we are behind we are all gonna be like "Sure you know us...we'll peg them back"

When we dont then we'll be like "What the ****? We lost and didn't make a comeback"

evil_seed

woodyg wrote: »

.
joint top

no we're not. we are 2nd. if today was the last day of the league we'd be 2nd on goal difference. pedantic i know but thems the facts

monkey9

mayordenis wrote: »

what are you on about??

Firstly this is a match thread,
so if your talking about the referee's deicisions in this game he made one major error which was not putting the liverpool free forward for ridiculous dissent by wigan.

Draws this week 3 from 6 but I think it is a conspiracy . . .

If i remember correctly, that 10 yard rule was scrapped

jesus_thats_gre

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Skrtel being out doesn't help and won't help. Agger, well - I just don't rate him. Defenders need to be good at defending first and foremost.

You are obviously entitled to your opinion and you are obviously being reasonable but I really do think that you need to re-evaluate your opinion on him. I really don't understand how anyone that has watched him regularly can't rate him as a quality player.

Granted, today he looked very rough but it was his first PL match for 13 months.

In my opinion, he is easily on par with Skrtel when it comes to being a defender but offers so much more going forward with the ball.

As for the match, talk about a virtual carbon copy of the Man City match. Wigan pressed and pressed in the first half and prevented us from playing. Eventually though, they did tire and we were creating chances. After the sending off, it was only going to end one way...

DeadSkin

Obviously thrilled with the result, but again leaking goal/s and having to come back and win the game. This does show a big step up, over the past seasons, this is where we used to falter, struggle to get that point or worse, lose.
Have to say I'm quiet content with it though.
Saying that, when Zaki got that second I did have my doubts.

Agger played well, barr his fup up, but made up for it for the first equaliser, and showed exactly what he can offer goin' forward. Looks very comfortable pushing forward with the ball at his feet.
It is a bit mad that Alonso has been the subject of late/hard tackles, and some having the result of the oppostion having a sending off.
Thought Riera had a great game.
Tad disappointed with Keane, specially when he had the chance to play Yossi[smells] thru' near the end.
Pennant had a decent game, got some crosses into the box from the right which we haven't seen in a while.

Overall, we have some good depth to the squad when first choice players are out injured. Yes it may mean a change of formation but it has worked so far.
Rafa, you the man :pac: :pac:



Edit: some folk here were over at the game, they got their moneys worth :pac:

missingtime

DeadSkin wrote: »

Thought Riera had a great game.

Yes yes!

Riera is playing well at the moment. I like him, strong, comfortable on the ball, not afraid to go past players and more importantly able to go past players.

Good buy imo.

dfx-

oobydooby wrote: »

Good point. Also this idea that the best way to deal with his threat is to get up and at him. Or that he's too slow:rolleyes:

Zabaleta's tackle is a perfect illustration..

If Zabaleta is luckier, he gets the ball and Alonso looks slow and uncommitted to the tackle as he is only waiting to nudge the ball away and avoid/invite the tackle...small margins.

Small margins which then obviously evolves into SWP scoring, zonal marking, rotation and sacking Benitez because he didn't sell him in the Summer..:)

LuckyLloyd

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

You are obviously entitled to your opinion and you are obviously being reasonable but I really do think that you need to re-evaluate your opinion on him. I really don't understand how anyone that has watched him regularly can't rate him as a quality player.

Granted, today he looked very rough but it was his first PL match for 13 months.

In my opinion, he is easily on par with Skrtel when it comes to being a defender but offers so much more going forward with the ball.

As I wrote in the Liverpool thread recently, I am surprised at how highly he is regarded amongst the majority of Liverpool fans. My personal opinion is that we remember his performance the second leg of the 2007 CL final above and beyond his overall contribution during the games he has managed thus far. But, I accept that I am in the minority as far as this topic is concerned.

Don't get me wrong, I firmly hope that in three years time I look like an idiot following his maturation into a truly top class center half. Ultimately time will tell though and for the moment we will just have to agree to disagree.

jesus_thats_gre

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

As I wrote in the Liverpool thread recently, I am surprised at how highly he is regarded amongst the majority of Liverpool fans. My personal opinion is that we remember his performance the second leg of the 2007 CL final above and beyond his overall contribution during the games he has managed thus far. But, I accept that I am in the minority as far as this topic is concerned.

Don't get me wrong, I firmly hope that in three years time I look like an idiot following his maturation into a truly top class center half. Ultimately time will tell though and for the moment we will just have to agree to disagree.

Yeah, well fook you too

Guy:Incognito

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

As I wrote in the Liverpool thread recently, I am surprised at how highly he is regarded amongst the majority of Liverpool fans. My personal opinion is that we remember his performance the second leg of the 2007 CL final above and beyond his overall contribution during the games he has managed thus far. But, I accept that I am in the minority as far as this topic is concerned.

Don't get me wrong, I firmly hope that in three years time I look like an idiot following his maturation into a truly top class center half. Ultimately time will tell though and for the moment we will just have to agree to disagree.

I only saw the highlights of yesterday but the only thing wrong I saw was for the goal. Even at that a good chunk of the blame lies with Reina. He called Agger towards him then passed to him when he could clearly see a player closing on him from behind that Agger cant see.

He then went up and made amends by making a goal, cant ask more than that.

spockety

Yesterday was the only calamity I can recall Agger being involved in since he started. In fact, I struggle to even think of many goals that he has been responsible for conceding at all. Even the top class central defenders (terry, carvalho, vidic, ferdinand, etc) all have some howlers to their names.

Agger is solid.

PHB

Stekelly wrote: »

I only saw the highlights of yesterday but the only thing wrong I saw was for the goal. Even at that a good chunk of the blame lies with Reina. He called Agger towards him then passed to him when he could clearly see a player closing on him from behind that Agger cant see.

He then went up and made amends by making a goal, cant ask more than that.

Well you can actually. You can ask for not making the mistakes and making the goal

People tend to do this with youngsters in general. There's no doubt that that Agger is a quality defender, with great potential. But he's a young player, and young players make mistakes. When a young attacker does it though, its not the end of the world. Same with a CM, or even a FB. However for CB's and Goalies, it costs goals. There's no young CB or young GK in the world [bar maybe Casillas] who doesn't make mistakes. It's just how they are. Even Ferdinand only really has cut out his mistakes in the last 2 years or so.

---

Anyone think Liverpool are becoming the new Spurs?

mike65

Anyone think Liverpool are becoming the new Spurs?

:eek:

Mike

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

Well you can actually. You can ask for not making the mistakes and making the goal

People tend to do this with youngsters in general. There's no doubt that that Agger is a quality defender, with great potential. But he's a young player, and young players make mistakes. When a young attacker does it though, its not the end of the world. Same with a CM, or even a FB. However for CB's and Goalies, it costs goals. There's no young CB or young GK in the world [bar maybe Casillas] who doesn't make mistakes. It's just how they are. Even Ferdinand only really has cut out his mistakes in the last 2 years or so.

---

Anyone think Liverpool are becoming the new Spurs?

In fairness though, normally Agger doesnt make mistakes. Ive seen every single game hes played for Liverpool and for such a young player, hes amazingly solid. I could count the bad games hes had for us on one hand.

The reason he was poor yesterday wasnt because hes young, its because the last time he played in the premier league was September 2007, over a year ago. I would expect Ferdinand, Vidic, Terry, Carragher or any center back regardless of experience to be rusty and a little nervous having been out that long.

Liverpool the new Spurs...explain!

PHB

Winning games by scoring more than they concede

I've seen Agger make a few more mistakes, although none as blatent as yesterday. Against Drogba for example. He's young though

mike65

Nah wrong comparison - Liverpool 2008 are the new Liverpool of 1995!

Mike

Guy:Incognito

PHB wrote: »

although none as blatent as yesterday.

With a BIG Reina assist.

ntlbell

mike65 wrote: »

Nah wrong comparison - Liverpool 2008 are the new Liverpool of 1995!

Mike

Was that the year they finished, wait for it.....4th?

Dave!

Liverpool show once again that they are a one-man team.




Without Kuyt youse are nothing!!!

mike65

heh! I suspect we need every striker bar Keane to be injured to before we're in trouble

Mike

Tusky

Stekelly wrote: »

With a BIG Reina assist.

Nah. Agger called for it. If you see the angle from above, Agger has loads of time to control and pass the ball. cant blame Reina.

Guy:Incognito

Tusky wrote: »

Nah. Agger called for it. If you see the angle from above, Agger has loads of time to control and pass the ball. cant blame Reina.

Wouldn't entirely blame him. But definitely some of it goes to him. Just because a player calls for a pass it doesn't mean he should be blindly given it.

Reina should have known Agger was being closed and looked elsewhere. Better safe than sorry as they say.

Tusky

Stekelly wrote: »

Wouldn't entirely blame him. But definitely some of it goes to him. Just because a player calls for a pass it doesn't mean he should be blindly given it.

Reina should have known Agger was being closed and looked elsewhere. Better safe than sorry as they say.

Take a look at the second angle. Agger had acres of space and loads of time to unload the ball. He looks over his shoulder so he knows Zaki is coming...could have passed to the full back but instead tries to take it round him. Definitely cant blame Reina.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/a6de59/n/Conceded08_EPL_R08_Zaki_rar

Guy:Incognito

Tusky wrote: »

Take a look at the second angle. Agger had acres of space and loads of time to unload the ball. He looks over his shoulder so he knows Zaki is coming...could have passed to the full back but instead tries to take it round him. Definitely cant blame Reina.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/a6de59/n/Conceded08_EPL_R08_Zaki_rar

My point was more that, why did Reina not just pass to the full back? Why introduce another link in the chain. How many times have similar things to this happened? A couple of times this season alone in the pl.

can d/l the vid btw, no slots free.

Dub13

Just back from the game and my head still hurts.

We seriously need to up the performance for next week against Chelsea.

ibh

PHB wrote: »

Winning games by scoring more than they concede

I've seen Agger make a few more mistakes, although none as blatent as yesterday. Against Drogba for example. He's young though

Drogba has destroyed quite a few CB’s in his time in England. With Agger he gave him the runaround in the first game and a real lesson in what it’s like to come up against a quality CF. Agger stood off him and was bullied by Drogba. In the return match he turned it around and bossed Drogba out of the game. NO doubt had had been torn a new arsehole by Rafa between games for being skinned in the first place. I think that was his coming of age (he was only 21 at the time), he has since been out for 13 months and had a shaky return. He will come through this and I have absolutely no doubts that he’ll be a huge player for us in the next couple of years.
In a way I’m glad he made a mistake on his return because it should focus his mind on what it takes at this level. He has a games against Forlan and Agurero in mid-week to redeem himself.
If he’s still making mistakes in a few weeks I’ll start worrying about him.

shane86

The Agger howler was without a doubt the worst I have seen in years.

All the recent spending on forward players whilst getting rid of Finnan. Skrtel is a class act but probably should have spent more down the back tbh.

mike65

Skrtel is injured so dunno who you are refering to.

Mike

Dave!

Think he means Liverpool should have spent more (money) on the back.

mike65

Ah right. Well possibly so, 8 million was spent on Dossena, just might have spent it badly if he doesn't work out.

Keeping Aurelio fit is a full time job

Mike