Could Budget 2009 bring down the Government?

DublinWriter

Given today's resignation of Joe Behan from FF and the stance of independent Finian McGrath, could the current Government collapse?

I've also heard that at least two other FF back-benchers are considering their respective positions.

The merits of the Budget are already being discussed to death on other threads - I'd be interested in what people think will happen when the Budget is voted on next week in the Dail.

Myself, I predict a climbdown on over-70's Medical Card means testing.

ednwireland

one can only hope but i doubt it

mind you seen the alternative !

Tomk1

No matter who you vote for a politician always gets in.
We need someone like Michael O'Leary.

DarkJager

I think they may have signed their own death warrant with this budget. They've alienated the core group of voters that put them there in the first place. I'm sure if you ask anybody who voted for them, they are probably seriously regretting that decision now.

This government will be out in the next election, and I would think it will be a very very very long time before they get in again.

DMC

Biffo is damaged goods now.

He's damned if he does, (caves into backbench pressure, it only takes ~10 votes to lose the vote) and damned if he doesn't (sticks with decision, doesn't back down)

He would still win a vote of no confidence, but he really, really doesn't want it to go that far.

1966

"grey" vote totally gone for FF

spadder

The greens are really been shown up as the spineless, media whores that they are. I’d say they have people watching the posts to see “which way the wind is blowing” before they decide to realize that rescinding medical cards is a bad idea.

If this government falls, what party will tackle the elephant in the room, the public/civil service?

DarkJager

spadder wrote: »

The greens are really been shown up as the spineless, media whores that they are. I’d say they have people watching the posts to see “which way the wind is blowing” before they decide to realize that rescinding medical cards is a bad idea.

If this government falls, what party will tackle the elephant in the room, the public/civil service?

Of course the greens are spineless, they were all talk at election time but now all they do is nod in agreement with Fianna Fail.

I have to say FG is seriously starting to look like the alternative. Richard Bruton for Finance Minister any day of the week - the guy really knows his stuff.

mike65

Any chance of a thread merge?

Mike

luckat

The Harney Touch of Death strikes again.

If I were FF I'd be looking frantically for a big new jobs programme that would turn the economy around.

DMC

DarkJager wrote: »

Richard Bruton for Finance Minister any day of the week

Richard Bruton for Taoiseach, more like. There is still the "Enda-phant" in the room, though, that would still prevent a lot of folk from voting FG.

Enda was absent from the airwaves on Tuesday, and hasn't been near a microphone much since.

spadder

DarkJager wrote: »

Of course the greens are spineless, they were all talk at election time but now all they do is nod in agreement with Fianna Fail.

I have to say FG is seriously starting to look like the alternative. Richard Bruton for Finance Minister any day of the week - the guy really knows his stuff.

Yeah, but will they tackle the CS head on? Seeing that kenny still draws a teachers pension.

DarkJager

spadder wrote: »

Yeah, but will they tackle the CS head on? Seeing that kenny still draws a teachers pension.

I think they would do a very reasonable job in government at this stage. Everybody is quick to slate FG and dismiss them as being a real alternative, but how can that be said when they haven't been given a chance?

FF have been destroying this country piece by piece over the past decade. Its about time the old dog was taken out and put down, it just is not working for the people anymore..

spadder

DarkJager wrote: »

FF have been destroying this country piece by piece over the past decade. Its about time the old dog was taken out and put down, it just is not working for the people anymore..

Agreed

spadder

DarkJager wrote: »

I have to say FG is seriously starting to look like the alternative. Richard Bruton for Finance Minister any day of the week - the guy really knows his stuff.

He may know his stuff, but does he have the balls to implement it?

DublinWriter

mike65 wrote: »

Any chance of a thread merge?

Mike

Sorry Mike, only noticed your similar thread about 20 minutes after I started mine.

Great minds, etc.

ninebeanrows

If this is the time where we finally loose these shower of corrupt power hungry buffoons it will be a great day.

If FF were to win the next election i think i would emigrate.

DarkJager

Weathercheck wrote: »

If this is the time where we finally loose these shower of corrupt power hungry buffoons it will be a great day.

If FF were to win the next election i think i would emigrate.

I know exactly what you mean. When the results of the last election were announced, I nearly booked myself a one way ticket out of this country. I couldn't believe that anybody could have been so stupid and naive to believe anything was going to change by giving FF another term.

Tomk1

DMC wrote: »

Richard Bruton for Taoiseach, more like. There is still the "Enda-phant" in the room, though, that would still prevent a lot of folk from voting FG.

Enda was absent from the airwaves on Tuesday, and hasn't been near a microphone much since.

Yep I might vote for FG then, a real leader not a bar of soap. The greens are now the "Yellows". The only other group SF which did stand against Lisbon seems more hungry and deservent, except Gerry Adams should not be leader in ROI & NI he should step in the ROI, letting Mary Lou McDonald take his place.

"The Harney Touch of Death strikes again."

mike65

Cowen is off to China on Monday, there is a FG private members motion down for discusion next week

That Dáil Éireann demands the immediate reversal of the Government decision to withdraw the automatic entitlement to a medical card from citizens aged over 70 years.

Those who have resigned or are "wobbling" will have the perfect opportuinity to put thier money where thier mouth is.

This weekend is going to be a busy one, by Monday it could all be over - either for the government or this issue, just hard to know which is more likely right now.

Mike

beggars_bush

who in Fianna Fail are still collecting the teachers' pension?

Hanafin, the 'Batman' O'Keeffe

I'm sure there are lots more

gerbilgranny

I was delighted to hear Joe Behan had taken a stand.

He is my local TD - I have known him for nearly 30 years. I've always believed that he entered politics for the RIGHT reasons - he's a man of integrity, who has a strong sense of civic duty, and who has, for as long as I can remember, done what he could to help others.

In the past few years, I found myself referring to him as 'one of the good guys', when people would say that all politicians were blah blah blah.

I wish he'd had the opportunity to run for the DAIL long before the last election - but the powers that be in Fianna Fail didn't want to risk the likes of Dick Roche losing his seat to Joe.

His letter of resignation proves that this is not some 'stunt' - he has gone against his conscience in order to tow the party line for a year now, and he has concluded that enough is enough.

Fair play to him, for being big and honest enough to say 'I was wrong, I'm sorry'.

K4t

Enda Kenny taking that 'huge':rolleyes: pay cut has finally shown him up to be the ignorant fool he really is. He is a nice, caring man but he has no sense of 'real life' politics and what it takes to lead a country. Most families in Ireland could live off the amount he cut his wages by.

Richard Bruton has been FGs' strongest and most consistent weapon over the last few years. He should become leader and hopefully Taoiseach.

Fianna Fáil have so many questions to answer too:

- Why are we paying over €800,000 a year to store electronic voting machines that don't work?

- Why are Doctors and Barristers earning over €200,000 a year collecting as much child benefit as their neighbours on a quarter of that income down the road?

- Why is 'Batting for the rich O'Keefe' still Minister for Education?

- Why the f**k are Fianna Fáil punishing the most vulnerable in our society, many of whom worked their whole lives to keep this econmy going.

They'll still be voted back into government when the next general elections come around.

Darragh29

DarkJager wrote: »

Of course the greens are spineless, they were all talk at election time but now all they do is nod in agreement with Fianna Fail.

I have to say FG is seriously starting to look like the alternative. Richard Bruton for Finance Minister any day of the week - the guy really knows his stuff.

I've never once voted for FG but if Richard bruton was leader, I'd give them a vote.

I have reservations about a party that think Enda Kenny is Taoiseach material. This worries me with FG. Enda Kenny has done a lot of good for the party but he is missing the X factor that is required to become Taoiseach and this should be clear to them by now. So too is Biffo, but he was more or less forced on the party as a leader.

SeanW

Tomk1 wrote: »

Yep I might vote for FG then, a real leader not a bar of soap. The greens are now the "Yellows". The only other group SF which did stand against Lisbon seems more hungry and deservent, except Gerry Adams should not be leader in ROI & NI he should step in the ROI, letting Mary Lou McDonald take his place.

"The Harney Touch of Death strikes again."

Much as I'd like FF to fall on their own sword of arrogance, cronyism and incompetence, I simply don't see how this will bring them down where their 11-odd years of mismanagement, stealth taxes, increasing nanny-statism and constantly pandering to the vested interests have failed.

Nor do I think that this is the reason they should fall, after all, if somoene has a lot of cash and a big pension and is 70, why should they get the same treatment as someone who has only a couple of thousand and a non contributory pension and is 70? I could be wrong, of course, but I don't see the logic of that.

Also, why are people complaining about Enda Kenny?

Ok, so he doesn't have a boatload of charisma and a likeable personality, but is that what is needed to lead? All I want is someone who has integrity and can make responsible decisions and to Hell with personalities. The Americans went for charisma in their presidential races in 2000 and 2004 and few here would consider that to be a wise move!

afatbollix

i still cant beleave the over 70 medical card.. thats pritty much most of there voters now against them...

diverdriver

So finally the sheeple who vote FF back into power again and again are finally seeing them for what they are. FF have ruled this country more than any other party. They have a long history of incompetance and corruption yet the plain stupid people of Ireland put them back in again and again.

We have just come through an unprecedented period of prosperity which they took credit for, in spite of the fact it was merely a happy coincidence. But they frittered away all that prosperity on their pals. Now it's all fallen apart and they introduce this abortion of a budget.

What is it going to take for the Irish people to see FF for the self serving bunch of hypocrites that they are?

Look at Haughey, corrupt and unrepentent. Given a heroes funeral. Look at Lawlor, no more corrupt than the others, just more stupid and greedy.

There there's Bertie Ahern, the 'Teflon Taoiseach'. But it turns out he had lot of nice friends who were always looking after him financially. I wish I had friends like that.:( But when he wasn't being subbed by his mates. He was down at the racetrack continuing his career as a professional gambler. Given the figures he mentioned, he was up there with J P McManus. I look forward to meeting the man and telling him what I think of him.

Now the bottom has fallen out of everything and the poor developers have to sell their helicopters. (Which at least will make flying safer). So they decided to get all the money back by screwing everyone in the country who ever did a proper days work.

But you know, they will get back in again because the Irish people are stupid and easily fooled. We deserve what we get. Anyone one of you who ever voted FF. This is your fault you fool!

mumhaabu

It is a pity that the PD's didn't have a bigger representation in this government as they would walk and have done before. The greens however will clutch to the straws of power for as long as they can to get their green agenda of damage work done.

I'd love to see a new Progressive Democrat's or new party emerge with defector's from Fianna Fail etc. along with some PD's politicans and emerge as new face in Irish politics along the line of Social and Fiscal Conservatism then to go into government with Fine Gael in a new coalition without either the greens, fianna fail or labour.

Hotblack Desiato

Hold on, it seems that nobody here is disagreeing that wealthy pensioners should get a medical card. Why is that? Introducing this was a blatant, expensive attempt to buy votes and I am pleased that it is being reversed.

Liam Byrne

I agree completely, ninja900, but - in the same way as the 1% "levy" (i.e. TAX) there's no recognition of what amount is required to live on in this expensive country of ours.....

If someone (probably a politician or a bank manager at this stage) was on a salary of over €100K a year and then had a huge pension of €40K, then yeah - they don't need one.

But AFAIK, the "threshold" that the gob****es brought in was something like €200 per week ? That's peanuts!!!!

Add to that what Ray D'Arcy was on about this morning - the arrogant and downright criminal timing of TDs getting their flu jabs for €20 a day or two after lots of deserving pensioners realised that theirs would probably cost between €55 and €90 - and you get the idea of the contempt that FF holds for Joe Public.

If I didn't know better, I'd think that FF have seen some SERIOUS writing on the wall down the line and WANT to get out so they won't be blamed......either that or they're bigger scum than even I'd thought possible.......

Rolling Smoke

procrastination is the obomanation of procreation