Sinn Fein/IRA to organise provocative march

Poccington

No she hasn't got the slightest clue :P

They could've joined the DF and wait 2-3 year to get Overseas unless they got very lucky, went into a small Unit after training as well as depending on the Corps they were in. For some people they don't mind waiting, other people do.

They could've joined the Yanks but that would involve them living in America for the rest of their lives. Since you claimed they're traitors for serving in a foreign Army for a foreign state surely they'd still be traitors if they served with the Yanks? Or does such a rule only apply cause it's those bloody Brits?

They could've joined the FFL but that would invovle them living outside of Ireland once again. Once again, wouldn't they still be traitors?

Or, they could've joined the RIR and lvied up North still relatively close to where they grew up. They could also have realised that all that happened before the RIR was formed and what went on in the Troubles had nothing to do with them as they probably weren't even born at the time or else just very young lads. They may have realised that the time for holding people responsible for something other people did many years ago is just plain silly. They could have also realised that the whole "Us and them" attitude is quite useless and the only people with such an attitude are either those "Hardcore" Loyalists or "Hardcore" Republicans.

But hey, they were obviously just dumb people that obviously wouldn't put such thought into where they were going to serve :rolleyes:

It wasn't me!

I intend to apply to the army after college. Hopefully I'll get it. If not, I'll apply to join the British Army I expect, and if I get in, I'll probably join an Irish regiment. If you want to call me a traitor then, do so in person, and I'll tell you exactly what I think of you. All you barstool pundits should come back when you've been soldiers and therefore have some respect and understanding for the things soldiers face.

Poccington

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I intend to apply to the army after college. Hopefully I'll get it. If not, I'll apply to join the British Army I expect, and if I get in, I'll probably join an Irish regiment. If you want to call me a traitor then, do so in person, and I'll tell you exactly what I think of you. All you barstool pundits should come back when you've been soldiers and therefore have some respect and understanding for the things soldiers face.

Apply for a Cadetship rather than General Enlistment when you finish college. If you finish the training you'll get commisioned as a full Lieutenant since you'll already have a degree.

It wasn't me!

That's the plan. I want to go Overseas quickly enough too. If I don't get the cadetship, I might just enlist anyway. I'd like to get my vision corrected though, so I hope the PDF review their policy on that.

TOMASJ

Or, they could've joined the RIR and lvied up North still relatively close to where they grew up. They could also have realised that all that happened before the RIR was formed and what went on in the Troubles had nothing to do with them as they probably weren't even born at the time or else just very young lads. They may have realised that the time for holding people responsible for something other people did many years ago is just plain silly. They could have also realised that the whole "Us and them" attitude is quite useless and the only people with such an attitude are either those "Hardcore" Loyalists or "Hardcore" Republicans.

Saw a "Hardcore Loyalist" photograph last week featuring the RIR in a armed UDA stance carring a union jack with the words "No Surrender" written across the rag, now I wonder was any of out brave Irish Brits in that shot.

TOMASJ

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I intend to apply to the army after college. Hopefully I'll get it. If not, I'll apply to join the British Army I expect, and if I get in, I'll probably join an Irish regiment. If you want to call me a traitor then, do so in person, and I'll tell you exactly what I think of you. All you barstool pundits should come back when you've been soldiers and therefore have some respect and understanding for the things soldiers face.

hypothetical question for you,
would you have served in the six county's for the british army if the troubles were not over?

gurramok

Poccington wrote:

They could've joined the Yanks but that would involve them living in America for the rest of their lives. Since you claimed they're traitors for serving in a foreign Army for a foreign state surely they'd still be traitors if they served with the Yanks? Or does such a rule only apply cause it's those bloody Brits?

They could've joined the FFL but that would invovle them living outside of Ireland once again. Once again, wouldn't they still be traitors?

See below.

Poccington wrote:

Or, they could've joined the RIR and lvied up North still relatively close to where they grew up. They could also have realised that all that happened before the RIR was formed and what went on in the Troubles had nothing to do with them as they probably weren't even born at the time or else just very young lads. They may have realised that the time for holding people responsible for something other people did many years ago is just plain silly. They could have also realised that the whole "Us and them" attitude is quite useless and the only people with such an attitude are either those "Hardcore" Loyalists or "Hardcore" Republicans.

To believe that the Troubles have not ended completely is naive. The divisions are still there, they are mostly peaceful now but any tragic event could erupt them again.
Labelling anyone who oppose them as 'hardcore' is just a silly view.

The entire Nationalist spectrum(SDLP+SF) opposed this parade and the RIR.

Watch the news reports today and you will have noticed the hardcore loyalists come out in their thousands to support the RIR. Not a nationalist in sight supporting it.

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I intend to apply to the army after college. Hopefully I'll get it. If not, I'll apply to join the British Army I expect, and if I get in, I'll probably join an Irish regiment. If you want to call me a traitor then, do so in person, and I'll tell you exactly what I think of you. All you barstool pundits should come back when you've been soldiers and therefore have some respect and understanding for the things soldiers face.

Very good for you. You should renounce your citizenship to this state as you serve another country in its military adventures with an oath to their leader.

You can tell me in person if you like and i can tell you what my view would be and it ain't barstool sh1te.

This is nothing to do with soldiering per se, its to do with where your allegiance and loyalty lies, and that's not to your own country.

It wasn't me!

Probably. I'd do my bloody job, and do it well, because I'm pretty apathetic about the whole thing. I honestly don't see that any one side has more claim to it than the other. If you want to make it about landmasses, give France Belgium. Makes about as much sense. Going to call me a traitor now, because I'd serve in another country?

Allah Hu Akbar

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I intend to apply to the army after college. Hopefully I'll get it. If not, I'll apply to join the British Army I expect, and if I get in, I'll probably join an Irish regiment. If you want to call me a traitor then, do so in person, and I'll tell you exactly what I think of you. All you barstool pundits should come back when you've been soldiers and therefore have some respect and understanding for the things soldiers face.

Well if you're finished in the next three years you won't be getting the Irish army as they're not taking on anyone because of the recession.

I'm sure their were also some southern Irishmen also in the RIR parade. Anyway, Sinn Fein rent a mob didn't get the chance to cause trouble.

Sinn Fein wanted trouble? Don't make me laugh if they wanted trouble it would've kicked off they told people who wanted trouble to stay away, only trouble came from loyalists but sure it's okay isn't it once the loyalists are doing it.

It wasn't me!

gurramok wrote: »

Very good for you. You should renounce your citizenship to this state as you serve another country in its military adventures with an oath to their leader.

You can tell me in person if you like and i can tell you what my view would be and it ain't barstool sh1te.

This is nothing to do with soldiering per se, its to do with where your allegiance and loyalty lies, and that's not to your own country.

If it's not about soldiering, should I renounce my citizenship if I decide my job prospects as an IT consultant are better in London or New York and move there as a result?

I'd love to serve with the Irish army, but the fact remains that it's not as simple as wanting to do it, so if they don't want to take me, I'll soldier for another army I respect that's close to home.

gurramok

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Probably. I'd do my bloody job, and do it well, because I'm pretty apathetic about the whole thing. I honestly don't see that any one side has more claim to it than the other. If you want to make it about landmasses, give France Belgium. Makes about as much sense. Going to call me a traitor now, because I'd serve in another country?

Apathetic, Belgium&France , what you mean?

Serve 'for', not 'in' another country. See here for definition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traitor

In law, treason is the crime that covers some of the more serious acts of disloyalty to one's sovereign or nation. Historically, treason also covered the murder of specific social superiors, such as the murder of a husband by his wife (treason against the king was known as high treason and treason against a lesser superior was petit treason). A person who commits treason is known in law as a traitor. Such a person may also be colloquially termed a turncoat, Judas or quisling.

Mods- its not a personal attack on the poster, i'm pointing out what that poster would be classified in my view in the eyes of the law

It wasn't me! wrote:

If it's not about soldiering, should I renounce my citizenship if I decide my job prospects as an IT consultant are better in London or New York and move there as a result?

I'd love to serve with the Irish army, but the fact remains that it's not as simple as wanting to do it, so if they don't want to take me, I'll soldier for another army I respect that's close to home.

I'll state it again. You will be serving for a foreign govt with allegiance to that foreign govt in their military objectives on a worldwide scale.
Big difference to that been a civilian employee in London/New York.

There are over 160 armies in the world and you will choose the British army with its recent bad history towards irish people in NI?

It wasn't me!

Allah Hu Akbar wrote: »

Well if you're finished in the next three years you won't be getting the Irish army as they're not taking on anyone because of the recession.

I'm aware of the recruitment freeze. If the situation persists when I've left college, I'll consider heading for the British Army.

It wasn't me!

gurramok wrote: »

Apathetic, Belgium&France , what you mean?

Serve 'for', not 'in' another country. See here for definition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traitor


Mods- its not a personal attack on the poster, i'm pointing out what that poster would be classified in my view in the eyes of the law

Apathetic: I don't give a rotten bollocks about the north for the most part.

The only thing uniting the Republic and Northern Ireland historically is that they share a landmass. So do France and Belgium, so why aren't they united?

Allah Hu Akbar

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I'm aware of the recruitment freeze. If the situation persists when I've left college, I'll consider heading for the British Army.

With the help of god you will meet a suicide bomber.

But don't worry after all dying for your country means you go to heaven

It wasn't me!

Allah Hu Akbar wrote: »

With the help of god you will meet a suicide bomber.

But don't worry after all dying for your country means you go to heaven

Surely this has to be out of order? Hoping I'm killed in duty, just because I don't have a stupid grudge against the British?

Allah Hu Akbar

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Surely this has to be out of order? Hoping I'm killed in duty, just because I don't have a stupid grudge against the British?

Nope, nothing to do with a grudge.

I believe when people are been invaded they have every right to defend themselves.

Your duty? I thought a college guy like you would know the word.

gurramok

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Apathetic: I don't give a rotten bollocks about the north for the most part.

The only thing uniting the Republic and Northern Ireland historically is that they share a landmass. So do France and Belgium, so why aren't they united?

So lets see. Yo don't give a rotten bollocks about the north yet you are going to join a regiment that's based there and represents the Unionist\Loyalist community, do you not see the irony?

France & Belgium are ethnically different countries(do a quick google on them) with Belgium having a section of population who are French lenient and the other half Dutch lenient.

For gods sake, look up what you will be getting yourself into. You seem determined to end up in Iraq or Afghanistan, that part about sacrificing yourself for a foreign country nevermind the North's baggage i do not understand

Will you be proud marching in Belfast with a loyalist crowd patting your back singing your new anthem(gstq) with your new flag?

It wasn't me!

Yep, doing my job would be my duty.

I believe soldiers being attacked have every right to defend themselves.

Me bollocks it's not to do with a grudge.

It wasn't me!

gurramok wrote: »

So lets see. Yo don't give a rotten bollocks about the north yet you are going to join a regiment that's based there and represents the Unionist\Loyalist community, do you not see the irony?

France & Belgium are ethnically different countries(do a quick google on them) with Belgium having a section of population who are French lenient and the other half Dutch lenient.

For gods sake, look up what you will be getting yourself into. You seem determined to end up in Iraq or Afghanistan, that part about sacrificing yourself for a foreign country nevermind the North's baggage i do not understand

Will you be proud marching in Belfast with a loyalist crowd patting your back singing your new anthem(gstq) with your new flag?

How different? Exactly how much do you know about medieval Europe? Differentiate them for me. Describe how Northern and Southern Ireland are more ethnically united than the French and the Belgians, the Dutch and Germans, the Danes and the Norwegians. Ethnicity means bog all for sovereignty.

No irony for me. I want to be a professional soldier. I'll do it the easiest way. I don't really want to live on the British mainland, makes things a pain, so I'd join the nearest regiment in the absence to serve in the Irish army.

I don't care about going to Afghanistan or Iraq, though I certainly have no objection to being posted there either. It's the job of a professional soldier. And I have little intention of sacrificing myself, thank you for your concern.

The flag I march under and the flag I'm born under aren't necessarily the same thing for a host of reasons, opportunity being the main one. I couldn't give a toss about marching in Belfast. I'll treat it the same as any other day, and if I'm marching in pride at having returned triumphant from a difficult tour, I expect I'll be pretty damn pleased to be honoured.

So, what would you suggest instead for a would-be Irish soldier who doesn't have the chance to serve with the Irish army? "Not join the British army", or any permutation of it, is not an acceptable suggestion, as it's rather stupid.

gurramok

It wasn't me! wrote: »

How different? Exactly how much do you know about medieval Europe? Differentiate them for me. Describe how Northern and Southern Ireland are more ethnically united than the French and the Belgians, the Dutch and Germans, the Danes and the Norwegians. Ethnicity means bog all for sovereignty.

Medieval Europe it ain't, we're talking about modern Europe and its diverse people's. I outlined France/Belgium for you.
In case you didn't know, Irish nationalists up north are ethnically related to Irish people in ROI and those of the Unionist persuasion are ethnically close to the English/Scots people because simply put, that is where they're recent ancestors came from and if you talk to any Unionist, they would be proud of that.

Ask them when you join the British army, they will say the exact same thing i'm saying to you

They are the generalisations with a small percentage with no loyalty to any side or having loyalty to the other side.

The Dutch and Germans, the Danes and the Norwegians all mostly live within their own borders with little evidence of minorities living outside.

Big difference to NI, there are 800,000+ people living in NI who are loyal to ROI(they are called Nationalists). By joining the British army and more so the RIR, you are not representing them but the Unionist people.

Do your own research, you shouldn't need other people to do it for you.

It wasn't me! wrote: »

No irony for me. I want to be a professional soldier. I'll do it the easiest way. I don't really want to live on the British mainland, makes things a pain, so I'd join the nearest regiment in the absence to serve in the Irish army.

I don't care about going to Afghanistan or Iraq, though I certainly have no objection to being posted there either. It's the job of a professional soldier. And I have little intention of sacrificing myself, thank you for your concern.

The flag I march under and the flag I'm born under aren't necessarily the same thing for a host of reasons, opportunity being the main one. I couldn't give a toss about marching in Belfast. I'll treat it the same as any other day, and if I'm marching in pride at having returned triumphant from a difficult tour, I expect I'll be pretty damn pleased to be honoured.

Mainland? Are we some tiny island off the coast of Britain:rolleyes:

You chose to serve the Unionist tradition, just don't expect sympathy from the host country which reared you which you had deserted, when you return home.

It wasn't me! wrote: »

So, what would you suggest instead for a would-be Irish soldier who doesn't have the chance to serve with the Irish army? "Not join the British army", or any permutation of it, is not an acceptable suggestion, as it's rather stupid.

No it is not, you're avoiding the obvious. You can join 160+ armies available, it ain't that hard to see that you've many choices of army to choose from.

Nodin

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I don't care about going to Afghanistan or Iraq, though I certainly have no objection to being posted there either. .

So essentially you don't give a crap who you end up killing or why. Brilliant.

It wasn't me!

Northern Ireland is a chunk of an island off the mainland, under its jurisdiction. Sorry if that's hard to swallow.

Obvious? One would think the obvious one is the closest one, with ease of travel from home and easy access to friends and family. Is this not the most obvious army to join, should the Irish army not be a possibility?

And if you want to talk ethnicity, you're definitely going to have to trace the development of and mixing of European races and peoples from the middle ages on, so I wouldn't bother trying to make an argument of it until you can do that.

Allah Hu Akbar

Nodin wrote: »

So essentially you don't give a crap who you end up killing or why. Brilliant.

LMFBO

It wasn't me!

Nodin wrote: »

So essentially you don't give a crap who you end up killing or why. Brilliant.

Nono, I know why: Because they threaten my life or the lives of those I serve with or those I'm assigned to protect. In those circumstances, yeah, I'll defend myself and my interests, as I think any half-sane person would.

A Dub in Glasgo

It wasn't me! wrote: »

The only thing uniting the Republic and Northern Ireland historically is that they share a landmass?

Dear God, what are you studying in College?

Nodin

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Obvious? One would think the obvious one is the closest one, with ease of travel from home and easy access to friends and family. Is this not the most obvious army to join, should the Irish army not be a possibility?

Well, some might take into account the involvement of said country in one of the more memorable and disastrous post-imperial imperial adventures of recent times in Iraq. It was on the news a while back. 'Whoops no WMD, but lookee at that oil' and all that.

It wasn't me!

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Dear God, what are you studying in College?

History. Want to argue that Ireland was united in medieval times with the arrival of the Normans? Because I can do that all night. While there was a dominant cultural landscape encompassing the majority of the island, it was by no means peaceful or politically united, with a monarchy resembling that of Anglo-Saxon Britain in its infancy, it could not be called a nation, primarily because the notion of nationhood only really properly developed in the ninteenth century. In fact, Northern Ireland was more of a nation in 1920 than the south, following the Government of Ireland Act.

It wasn't me!

Nodin wrote: »

Well, some might take into account the involvement of said country in one of the more memorable and disastrous post-imperial imperial adventures of recent times in Iraq. It was on the news a while back. 'Whoops no WMD, but lookee at that oil' and all that.

Makes no difference to a soldier's job.

Nodin

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Nono, I know why: Because they threaten my life or the lives of those I serve with or those I'm assigned to protect. In those circumstances, yeah, I'll defend myself and my interests, as I think any half-sane person would.

Now if you were sitting in a pub having a few with the lads thats reasonable. If you're delivering food to the starving thats fine too. Trying to stop mobs killing each other, massacring people is just groovy too.

However if you're part of a force thats just been part of an invasion the upshot of which is 63 of 80 oil fields are now under Foriegn control under terms & conditions not seen since the days of the British Empire, that makes you an accessory to a poxy crime. You'd be more honest if you took up gangland enforcement.

Nodin

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Makes no difference to a soldier's job.

Makes you a willing accessory. You aren't being drafted, you aren't being coerced.