Sinn Fein/IRA to organise provocative march

TOMASJ

podge79 wrote: »

do sinn fein have nothing better to do with their weekends? surely theres a few press releases that have to be done up to deny any IRA activity whatsoever in punishment beatings, bank robberies, drug seizures, (add on illegal activity of you choice here)

Ooo
so anyone who does not agree with the glorifying of thugs and murderers of people in Ireland. Afghanistan. or Iraq. should shut up and stay at home.
why do we not have the paras march in Derry and celebrate
these brave young men & women's
great exploits on Bloody Sunday.

dresden8

Speaking of drugs, hasn't heroin production gone through the roof in Afghanistan since the British and Americans moved in?

Strange bedfellows indeed.

podge79

you cant seriously see the connection between sinn fein and the IRA? hmmmmmm lets ask martin "I'm a member of the IRA" mcguinness and gerry "they havent gone away you know" adams

Jamey

Zand wrote: »

Yes, and the military of any country should not have to take a backseat to the terrorist murderers of Sinn Fein/IRA. As I said, most people will welcome the RIR, they know that they always do their job in a professional manner, but Sinn Fein/IRA will try and gather their usual rabble ( if they can get them out of the pubs and betting shops ) to stir up trouble - yet again.

Get over it, big deal. This stuff has been happening for years (protests, demonstrations, counter-protests, counter-demonstrations), and it's not going to end anytime soon.

It looks like you're just desperately encouraging another 'Let's all bash Republicanism" thread.

dlofnep

Iraq death toll 'soared post-war'
Poor planning, air strikes by coalition forces and a "climate of violence" have led to more than 100,000 extra deaths in Iraq, scientists claim.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3962969.stm

The use of cluster munitions in populated areas caused more civilian casualties than any other factor in the coalition´s conduct of major military operations in March and April, Human Rights Watch said. U.S. and British forces used almost 13,000 cluster munitions, containing nearly 2 million submunitions, that killed or wounded more than 1,000 civilians.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2003/12/12/iraq6582.htm

Why would anyone welcome an army responsible for the deaths of countless civilians, and who have been documented through the wars for their breaches of human rights. Sure it wasn't so long ago they were using children as cannon fodder in Derry, and shooting innocent civilians on their way to sports events. We're expected to welcome them? you're having a laugh. It isn't only Sinn Féin that opposes their unethical, laughable war in Iraq.

dlofnep

Last month, the first British soldier convicted of a war crime was jailed for a year and dismissed from the Army after being convicted of mistreating Iraqi civilians, including the hotel worker Baha Mousa, who died of his injuries at the hands of British soldiers. In 2005, three British soldiers were jailed by a court martial in Germany after "trophy" photographs emerged, showing Iraqi detainees being abused at an aid centre called Camp Bread Basket. There are about 60 more allegations of abuse being prepared for legal claims by rights groups.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/human-rights-in-iraq-a-case-to-answer-450823.html

UK armed forces in Iraq have shot and killed Iraqi civilians, including an eight-year-old girl and a guest at a wedding celebration, in situations where there was no apparent threat to themselves or others, says a new report from Amnesty International.

http://www.redress.btinternet.co.uk/amnesty.htm

Tell me again why we should welcome these "brave" soldiers?

madden1

Were those Taliban in Afghanistan not freedom fighters a few years back, and big comrades of the brits including the UDR RIR
what on earth HAPPENED

the_syco

Zand wrote: »

WAS I SUPPOSED TO ASK YOU FOR PERMISSION AS TO WHAT USER NAME I CHOOSE.

Yes :pac:

EuskalHerria wrote: »

Why can soldiers not speak and think for themselves?

They obey orders, or get court-martialed/sacked.

EuskalHerria wrote: »

Sinn fein/ira,Can you not tell the difference? You do realise that the ira have fully decommisioned?

What do you mean by IRA? PIRA decommisioned, but RIRA, INLA, etc, didn't. Members of SF have acknowledged that they were past members of PIRA. Thus, SF/IRA.

=-=

IMO, the RIR has equal rights to march down the street as PIRA has. Both have a bad record regarding shooting civilians, and both claim their war is "just".

The only difference is that PIRA was reacting to British rule, whereas RIR went over to help enfore democracy. That from that what you will.

EuskalHerria

podge79 wrote: »

you cant seriously see the connection between sinn fein and the IRA? hmmmmmm lets ask martin "I'm a member of the IRA" mcguinness and gerry "they havent gone away you know" adams

Sinn fein a right of center republican party who are being found out to be selling their principles for british pay cheques now.


The IRA, an organisation that if they had not caused a serious threat to the british establishment and brought them to the table for the political talks then we would have even more sectarian divide and social inequality worse than we have in the north.

Of course i will not be ignorant and say these organisations did not over lap more often than not, but i won't insult my intelligence by lumping them together by saying they are one and the same.

dlofnep

the_syco wrote: »

They obey orders, or get court-martialed/sacked.

I'm sure the civilians who had their family members maimed by cluster bombed would appreciate that.

Yes, that was sarcasm.

madden1

the_syco wrote: »

Yes :pac:

They obey orders, or get court-martialed/sacked.

Better court-martialed/sacked than obeying orders to kill innocent people.
don't you think

dlofnep

Sand wrote: »

:pac:

Oh Dlofnep...Your need to control the threads you start betrays you....

What are you on about?

Calina

EuskalHerria wrote: »

Sinn fein a right of center republican party....

Usually I can't be bothered posting in here but....

Sinn Féin are a socialist extreme left party in terms of policies. I don't get where you find the right of centre bit.

As for the rest of your nonsense in this post:

EuskalHerria wrote: »

The IRA, an organisation that if they had not caused a serious threat to the british establishment and brought them to the table for the political talks then we would have even more sectarian divide and social inequality worse than we have in the north.

Me thinks you don't have a clue what you are talking about. They prolonged the agony for most of my childhood, not shortened it. Only when they stopped shooting did things actually start to move.

I have no pride in any of the arms or factions that called themselves some sort of IRA, be it C or P or R. They killed people. I don't like that. I see no glory in it.

As for the subject of the original post, the word "whatever" is lining up for duty. Surely to God there's other things people could be doing.

EuskalHerria

they obey orders, or get court-martialed/sacked.

I would rather get court martialed and or sacked with dignity, than sell my soul and follow like a sheep!!

What do you mean by IRA? PIRA decommisioned, but RIRA, INLA, etc, didn't. Members of SF have acknowledged that they were past members of PIRA. Thus, SF/IRA.

INLA are on and have been on ceasefire for over 10 years, the CIRA and RIRA current campaigns are a joke and there is no need under the current political climate.

There are ex PIRA members in other political parties, by your logic are they all linked as strong as you suggest with the IRA?

IMO, the RIR has equal rights to march down the street as PIRA has. Both have a bad record regarding shooting civilians, and both claim their war is "just".

The only difference is that PIRA was reacting to British rule, whereas RIR went over to help enfore democracy. That from that what you will

I Have never ever heard of PIRA marching down the street?:eek: That would condradict their rule on "keeping quiet"

dlofnep

British troops ‘tortured and killed Iraqi civilians seized after battle’

The Attorney-General was urged yesterday to call in Scotland Yard to investigate allegations that British troops tortured and killed a number of Iraqi civilians seized after an ambush at a checkpoint in southern Iraq in May 2004.

Two British lawyers, Phil Shiner and Martyn Day, said there was evidence from Iraqi doctors’ certificates, following examination of 20 bodies, that bodies had been mutilated and that there were signs of torture having taken place. They cited two cases where Iraqis had an eye “gouged out” or “pulled out”, and another where a penis had been severed.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article3419662.ece

dlofnep

With that in mind - Does anybody care to answer why we should welcome an army responsible for 1000's of civilian deaths? Let alone, have a parade for them?

What? No answer. End of dicussion so. Now you all understand why they are not welcome.

EuskalHerria

Usually I can't be bothered posting in here

I can see why:rolleyes:

Sinn Féin are a socialist extreme left party in terms of policies. I don't get where you find the right of centre bit.

You call my post nonsense and say i have no clue and you post that? :eek: Sinn fein have a history of putting out what they would like to say are left wing socialist policies but never ever follow through on them, show me how they are a left wing party?

Me thinks you don't have a clue what you are talking about. They prolonged the agony for most of my childhood, not shortened it. Only when they stopped shooting did things actually start to move.

how have i not a clue? i have invested a lot of my time about learning especially about the north of ireland and i won't have that questioned by someone that, has not a clue. Can i ask what has changed though? their is not as many bombings and shootings (in the mainstream media at least) but there is still serious social inequality and sectarianism is still rife?

I have no pride in any of the arms or factions that called themselves some sort of IRA, be it C or P or R. They killed people. I don't like that. I see no glory in it.

As for the subject of the original post, the word "whatever" is lining up for duty. Surely to God there's other things people could be doing

I would not glorify the death of anyone, but it is a fact that some people put themselves in a postion that compromises there safety more than others. All the organisations you have mentioned were set up to protect themselves from loyalist death squads that history proves were set up well before any of the organisations you have listed above

Calina

Sinn Féin's published policies are extreme left wing end of. Just because they don't get to put it into action very often doesn't mean that this is any different.

It was not by bombing and terrorising the population of Northern Ireland an d the UK that the IRA got their friends Sinn Fein to the negotiating table, it was by stopping. As long as they bombed and maimed NOTHING was going to change. If you do not understand this then all that study was wasted.

Additionally, the provisional IRA went a good way towards hurting and terrorising their own during their so called campaign. I assume you learned that from your extensive study on the subject.

What has changed? I see - for the most part - a lot more hope in Northern Ireland than I did 20 years ago when the IRA were bombing their way around it. It is that hope which leads to change, not bombs.

dlofnep

The British Army did their fair share of killing and maiming in the North Calina, or has your memory become selective?

Calina

Nope, but that doesn't justify the IRA in any shape or form.

dlofnep

Is justifies their attacks of British military (good riddens). It does not justify the deaths of civilians however, dlofnep agrees with you on that.

madden1

Calina wrote: »

Nope, but that doesn't justify the IRA in any shape or form.

It does if you had the Loyalists under the the guiding hand of the british army UDR/RIR stopping people at check points and deciding if or not you were a target

Calina

No it does not.

There is no justification for killing another human being, it brings you down to the level of what you despise and rail against.

dlofnep

Calina wrote: »

No it does not.

There is no justification for killing another human being, it brings you down to the level of what you despise and rail against.

So wheres your condemnation in this thread for the civilians who lost their lifes at the hands of British soldiers?

I see you conveniently skipped the numerous referenced accounts of civilian deaths at the hands of the British military, and went on an attack on the IRA. Do you believe the British military should be in Iraq or Afhghanistan?

Like I said, selective memory.

Calina

You are just trying to move the debate away from IRA killing civilians by sleight of hand. It is so self evidently obvious that killing human being is wrong, it doesn't matter who is doing it but for muppets who justify it because others do it I have contempt.

The activities of the IRA in killing and maiming people are unjustifiable. Accusing me of sidestepping the British army is purely your way of avoiding the reality that the IRA were base criminals, end of story.

But if you want to score keep, 309 people were killed by the British Army during their time in Northern Ireland. The IRA killed more than 1800.

That is nearly six times as many people as your abhorred British Army.

podge79

dlofnep wrote: »

So wheres your condemnation in this thread for the civilians who lost their lifes at the hands of British soldiers?

I see you conveniently skipped the numerous referenced accounts of civilian deaths at the hands of the British military, and went on an attack on the IRA. Do you believe the British military should be in Iraq or Afhghanistan?

Like I said, selective memory.

where's your condemnation of IRA terrorism?

madden1

Calina wrote: »

No it does not.

There is no justification for killing another human being, it brings you down to the level of what you despise and rail against.

Exactly the reason most reasonable people in Belfast don't support a glorying parade for british army murderers in Ireland Iraq and Afghanistan and will protest against it

Allah Hu Akbar

Funny the way most Mod's have a Pro-Brit / Anti-IRA about them.

As long as they bombed and maimed NOTHING was going to change. If you do not understand this then all that study was wasted.

I don't believe that to be honest. Look what the Manchester bomb achieved it got the brits back to negotiations. Ireland was closer to a united Ireland by bombing London than ever they will be now that is a fact.

The IRA always said they were defending people but they always said if people voted against it they would step down which they did and IMO should be given alot of credit for that, but we voted for the agreement that all groups drop down their guns it's funny how nothing is said about the loyalists. Some guy killed himself the othre day because he had cancer the cops found about 70 yes that's right 70 guns bullets etc etc if that was the IRA there would be 10 threads on the subject.

EuskalHerria

Sinn Féin's published policies are extreme left wing end of. Just because they don't get to put it into action very often doesn't mean that this is any different.

sinn fein are not left wing, maybe i would agree they are centre but not left.

It was not by bombing and terrorising the population of Northern Ireland an d the UK that the IRA got their friends Sinn Fein to the negotiating table, it was by stopping. As long as they bombed and maimed NOTHING was going to change. If you do not understand this then all that study was wasted.

The british did not take "the paddy's" serious in their quest for civil rights and it was when they realised the citizens that they were treating like first class citizens were at risk that they were driven to the political table. there is no doubting this, although saying that very few have benifitted from this quiet, like i said there is still social inequality and sectariaism within the north

Additionally, the provisional IRA went a good way towards hurting and terrorising their own during their so called campaign. I assume you learned that from your extensive study on the subject.

What has changed? I see - for the most part - a lot more hope in Northern Ireland than I did 20 years ago when the IRA were bombing their way around it. It is that hope which leads to change, not bombs

I have learned about this and at no point did i mention that the IRA were perfect and i am not ignorant to the fact they did try and make their own benifits. But i won't be ignorant to the fact that they have been part of the reason that there is peace in the north because they brought the british to talks!

And you say you ahve noticed change? i take it you do not live in a working class estate do you? because they ahve not noticed the change. just because you can live your life with a bit more pleasure and without the fears of bombings does not mean life has changed for the better for the majority!!

podge79

Allah Hu Akbar wrote: »

Funny the way most Mod's have a Pro-Brit / Anti-IRA about them.




I don't believe that to be honest. Look what the Manchester bomb achieved it got the brits back to negotiations. Ireland was closer to a united Ireland by bombing London than ever they will be now that is a fact.

The IRA always said they were defending people but they always said if people voted against it they would step down which they did and IMO should be given alot of credit for that, but we voted for the agreement that all groups drop down their guns it's funny how nothing is said about the loyalists. Some guy killed himself the othre day because he had cancer the cops found about 70 yes that's right 70 guns bullets etc etc if that was the IRA there would be 10 threads on the subject.

how are you defending people by bombing a shopping centre complex in manchester?