Sinn Fein/IRA to organise provocative march

dlofnep

Calina wrote: »

You are just trying to move the debate away from IRA killing civilians by sleight of hand. It is so self evidently obvious that killing human being is wrong, it doesn't matter who is doing it but for muppets who justify it because others do it I have contempt.

The activities of the IRA in killing and maiming people are unjustifiable. Accusing me of sidestepping the British army is purely your way of avoiding the reality that the IRA were base criminals, end of story.

But if you want to score keep, 309 people were killed by the British Army during their time in Northern Ireland. The IRA killed more than 1800.

That is nearly six times as many people as your abhorred British Army.

I believe the topic at hand is the British army. Is it not?

I see you're still avoiding to condemn the British army. Like I said, selective memory.

I've already stated that the IRA never had any justification for killing civilians and that it was wrong for them to do so. No problem. Easy, isn't it?

Now that we have that out of the way..

1: Where is your condemnation for the civilians killed by the British army? I want you to categorically condemn them for doing so, or I will take it that your logic only applies when the IRA is involved.

2: Do you believe the British army have a right to be in Iraq & Afghanistan?

Calina

Credit to an organisation that bombed and killed its way into the culture?

Sorry. No one gave them a mandate to go killing in the first place and I don't recall on one single occasion being given an option to ask the IRA to stop killing and maiming people. The vote you mention came after the ceasefire - at least one year afterwards.

dlofnep

Still waiting for you to condemn the British army Calina.. Let me know when you've done so. Otherwise you're a hypocrite.

EuskalHerria

Calina wrote: »

But if you want to score keep, 309 people were killed by the British Army during their time in Northern Ireland. The IRA killed more than 1800.

That is nearly six times as many people as your abhorred British Army.

What about loyalist death squads that were part of collusion with the british? how many deaths are they responsible for?

Your condemnation of the IRA is voided if not followed up by condemnation of the RIR for their part in terrorising afghans! You have done your part to derail this thread with your agenda, your attempts at sleight of hand are also very evident.

dlofnep

EuskalHerria is correct.

Allah Hu Akbar

Calina wrote: »

Credit to an organisation that bombed and killed its way into the culture?

Sorry. No one gave them a mandate to go killing in the first place and I don't recall on one single occasion being given an option to ask the IRA to stop killing and maiming people. The vote you mention came after the ceasefire - at least one year afterwards.

So you're trying to say the IRA had no support? Get a grip. 100,000 people went to Bobby Sands funeral over 30,000 people voted for him not to mention the votes others got in the Dail. I take it you never heard of the arms trial? Or the words if they want a fight we'll give them a fight.

how are you defending people by bombing a shopping centre complex in manchester?

Very simple you plant a bomb and do millions worth of damage but also at the same time give warnings. If the IRA didn't give a warning how many would have been killed or Quay Wharf? To say the IRA just went out to kill people is nonsense.

Calina

dlofnep wrote: »

I believe the topic at hand is the British army. Is it not?

No it is not. The topic at hand is an incendiary and divisive demonstration on the part of one part of the community against members of the others which makes the demo in question little different to 12 July marches. Tedious and boring and evidence that no one learns anything from history.

dlofnep wrote: »

I see you're still avoiding to condemn the British army. Like I said, selective memory.

It's hard for me to forget them since you won't shut up about them.

dlofnep wrote: »

I've already stated that the IRA never had any justification for killing civilians and that it was wrong for them to do so. No problem. Easy, isn't it?

The British Army would have left Northern Ireland a lot earlier if the IRA had stopped bombing and maiming other human beings.

dlofnep wrote: »

Now that we have that out of the way..

1: Where is your condemnation for the civilians killed by the British army? I want you to categorically condemn them for doing so, or I will take it that your logic only applies when the IRA is involved.

My logic applies to all human beings as was made abundantly clear further up. If you bring this up once more I will take it as read that you are forcing this issue to push the issue away from the IRA. You don't like being reminded that they got up to very nasty things while they were active and much more so than the British Army in NI. The figures are above and I notice you haven't responded to them.

dlofnep wrote: »

2: Do you believe the British army have a right to be in Iraq & Afghanistan?

This is an entirely separate discussion but fore the record I do not believe that any western army should be occupying either Iraq or Afghanistan. I will also make it abundantly clear to you that I at least understand that the British Army are not the only army in those territories . Why concentrate on them? Because you have some sort of an irrational fixation on the British Army? Because it sure as hell gives off the smell that you do.

__________________

As a general note, I see a lot of whataboutery coming from those who are having some difficulty defending the IRA. So in answer to:

the loyalist death squads: unjustifiable but again, the figures suggest that the IRA did a lot more killing than any other organisation in the north. Any effort to deflect criticism of the IRA by pointing to any other organisation at all is hypocritical.

but then, that's hardly surprising.

TOMASJ

podge79 wrote: »

how are you defending people by bombing a shopping centre complex in manchester

Back to Iraq,
how are you defending people by bombing Baghdad

podge79

so bombing civilian 'soft' targets is ok then in your book? despite the fact the IRA often gave inaccurate and misleading warnings that would often be only a short time ie 10 mins before bomb was due to go off.... trying to ease their conscience were they? oh we gave a warning its ok

Allah Hu Akbar

the loyalist death squads: unjustifiable but again, the figures suggest that the IRA did a lot more killing than any other organisation in the north. Any effort to deflect criticism of the IRA by pointing to any other organisation at all is hypocritical.

Oh so let me get this right it's ok for the loyalists to murder people because the IRA killed more you ****ing hypocrite.

I can't believe that you're trying to get away with this. During the
troubles 1969-1994, republicans killed 704 civilians and loyalists
killed a total of 818. ( Source:Mapping Troubles-Related Deaths in
Northern Ireland 1969-1994 by Fay, Smyth & Morrisey)

podge79

TOMASJ wrote: »

podge79 wrote: »

Back to Iraq,
how are you defending people by bombing Baghdad

I never said any such thing that people were been defended by bombing baghdad... please dont misquote me.

dlofnep

Calina wrote: »

My logic applies to all human beings as was made abundantly clear further up. If you bring this up once more I will take it as read that you are forcing this issue to push the issue away from the IRA. You don't like being reminded that they got up to very nasty things while they were active and much more so than the British Army in NI. The figures are above and I notice you haven't responded to them.

Forcing the issue? I just want to see you being fair and balanced. You were quick to categorically condemn the IRA, but I have yet to see you categorically condemn the British army for their murder of civilians in not only Iraq & Afghanistan, but also in Ireland.

Your predictable "Oh but the IRA did this.." nonsense is just a dismal attempt to escape your onus to admit that the British military should be rightfully condemned for their maiming of countless civilians (much more than the IRA ever did btw).

Calina wrote: »

This is an entirely separate discussion but fore the record I do not believe that any western army should be occupying either Iraq or Afghanistan. I will also make it abundantly clear to you that I at least understand that the British Army are not the only army in those territories . Why concentrate on them? Because you have some sort of an irrational fixation on the British Army? Because it sure as hell gives off the smell that you do.

You clearly and concisely stated that it is not right to kill another human under any circumstances. So you "understand" why they are there - That's nice.

And LMAO @ you claiming I have an irrational fixation on the British Army when you came into this thread with guns ablazing lashing out at the IRA, and have consistently being mentioning them ever since.

POT, KETTLE, BLACK. Hello!

Calina wrote: »

As a general note, I see a lot of whataboutery coming from those who are having some difficulty defending the IRA. So in answer to:

the loyalist death squads: unjustifiable but again, the figures suggest that the IRA did a lot more killing than any other organisation in the north. Any effort to deflect criticism of the IRA by pointing to any other organisation at all is hypocritical.

but then, that's hardly surprising.

LOL @ "whataboutery"..

LOL @ the hypocritical nature of EVERY single post you've made in this thread. You keep stating that we are defending the IRA, but you've been not only defending the British army, but now - you use the "but again" argument in response to the collusion between British forces and loyalists?

Hagar

Leaving aside the Catholic/Protestant debate for a moment if that is at all possible.

The people who would have benefited most from the RIR involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan would have been the ordinary Muslim peasants.

I wonder how many of the Six Counties 1,943 Muslims* will turn up waving their flags to thank the returning heroes?

I think that is much more pertinent than anything any other group does.




* Source: 2001 Census.

Sand

This is fairly hilarious, Ive never seen so many Provos so completely trolled by another Provo.

TOMASJ

podge79 wrote: »

so bombing civilian 'soft' targets is ok then in your book? despite the fact the IRA often gave inaccurate and misleading warnings that would often be only a short time ie 10 mins before bomb was due to go off.... trying to ease their conscience were they? oh we gave a warning its ok

Podge
this thread is about the RIR not being welcome to parade in Belfast,YOU talked about bombing shopping centres I replied about bombing Baghdad, with no warnings whatsoever, And as you are aware that is the part of the world the RIR is coming from after there escapade of killing, 'soft' targets as you put it.

Allah Hu Akbar

Sand wrote: »

This is fairly hilarious, Ive never seen so many Provos so completely trolled by another Provo.

Oh the loyalist speaks..

Calina are you going to answer my post about civilians been killed?

Calina

Sand wrote: »

This is fairly hilarious, Ive never seen so many Provos so completely trolled by another Provo.

Are you talking about me?

Allah Hu Akbar wrote: »

Oh the loyalist speaks..

Calina are you going to answer my post about civilians been killed?

What, you mean you missed it?

I said clearly that killing any human being is wrong. Now go away and try to figure out how you can miss what that means. Killing any human being is wrong.

It is wrong.

It is wrong

It is wrong

It is wrong.

Have you got that yet? Killing any human being is wrong.

Got that?

TOMASJ

The people who would have benefited most from the RIR involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan would have been the ordinary Muslim peasants.

Where did you get this nonsensical information

EuskalHerria

As a general note, I see a lot of whataboutery coming from those who are having some difficulty defending the IRA. So in answer to:

the loyalist death squads: unjustifiable but again, the figures suggest that the IRA did a lot more killing than any other organisation in the north. Any effort to deflect criticism of the IRA by pointing to any other organisation at all is hypocritical.

but then, that's hardly surprising

whataboutery? Again i am thankfull in part but not defending the IRA as i am opposed to their politics and i believe that far too often members took advantage of their position.But i also won't accept someone coming here with their perceptions of what went on with their own agenda and completely dismissing them, because from their luxurorious comfort zone "violence is wrong"

And hypocritical? Give me a break we have been asking you for two pages to condemn the terrible history and not so distant past of the RIR but you have yet to do that so you are the hypocrit!! Again though you only came here to suit your own agenda not talk about the topic at hand.

podge79

TOMASJ wrote: »

Podge
this thread is about the RIR not being welcome to parade in Belfast,YOU talked about bombing shopping centres I replied about bombing Baghdad, with no warnings whatsoever, And as you are aware that is the part of the world the RIR is coming from after there escapade of killing, 'soft' targets as you put it.

my comment re bombing shopping centres was in response to a post by allah Hu hakbar...

hope i got ur name right its a diff one to rem

Allah Hu Akbar

Calina wrote: »

Are you talking about me?



What, you mean you missed it?

I said clearly that killing any human being is wrong. Now go away and try to figure out how you can miss what that means. Killing any human being is wrong.

It is wrong.

It is wrong

It is wrong

It is wrong.

Have you got that yet? Killing any human being is wrong.

Got that?

Second part of the question was to you.

You said the IRA killed more innocent people than the loyalists which isn't true are you gonig to admit you're wrong?

First solider killed by loyalists
First cop killed by loyalists
First innocent person to be killed was by loyalists.

I take it you never heard about Jack Lynch sending troops into the North but then stopped and they only stayed on the border? Ever hear of if they want a fight we'll give them a fight?

dlofnep

*still waiting for Calina to categorically condemn the British army*

I take it that you are unable to do so. An ambiguous "killing people is wrong" just doesn't cut it. You're a hypocrite and a British army apologist. Very quick to condemn the IRA for their killing of civilians, but pages on - you're still unable to keep continuity in your condemnations. End of story.

Hagar

TOMASJ wrote: »

Where did you get this nonsensical information

Why did they go then?
I thought the official line was they were saving the ordinary Muslim from their "bad" governments?
Or maybe it was something to do with controlling their oil ?

Try the ironing by the way, it's delicious.

Allah Hu Akbar

Hagar wrote: »

Why did they go then?
I thought the official line was they were saving the ordinary Muslim from their "bad" governments?
Or maybe it was something to do with controlling their oil ?

Try the ironing by the way, it's delicious.

But I always thought the war was over nuclear missiles :rolleyes:

TOMASJ

my comment re bombing shopping centres was in response to a post by allah Hu hakbar.

I will ask again. when you asked Allah Hu Akbar how are you (the IRA) defending people by bombing a shopping centre complex in manchester
I asked how are you and the brit army defending the people of Iraq by bombing Baghdad,

podge79

TOMASJ wrote: »

I will ask again. when you asked Allah Hu Akbar how are you (the IRA) defending people by bombing a shopping centre complex in manchester
I asked how are you and the brit army defending the people of Iraq by bombing Baghdad,

I never said I did! your making assumptions that I am defending such a thing... please point out to me where i said that the people of iraq were been defended by bombing baghdad

Calina

dlofnep wrote: »

*still waiting for Calina to categorically condemn the British army*

I take it that you are unable to do so. An ambiguous "killing people is wrong" just doesn't cut it. You're a hypocrite and a British army apologist. Very quick to condemn the IRA for their killing of civilians, but pages on - you're still unable to keep continuity in your condemnations. End of story.

All killing is wrong. If that is not enough for you then I will take it that you don't consider that all killing is wrong, and are therefore amoral enough to justify some killing to yourself. That's fine; it will just colour my opinion of yours. I am not hiding behind "all killing is wrong", you are hiding behind "some killing is justified if it's done against people I don't like". Anything else you want you can't have because I have said what I am going to say on killing people. It is you who wants to slice and dice the justification of killing human beings.

Allah hu Akbar - the figures I have say that the IRA killed more people than any other organisation but will recognise that the numbers of civilians killed by loyalist terrorists exceeds those by republican terrorists. It's not relevant to the discussion of whether the IRA were justified in killing 1800 people, however. If it makes you feel better, I think the loyalist terrorists are scum too.

Sand

Are you talking about me?

Nope, Zand/Dlofnep...you see, I disagreed with Dlofnep on a thread on the internet. Dlofnep doesnt take that sort of crap from anyone, especially a West Brit British Army apologist who dared to criticise his beloved Gerry Adams! He was going to show that Sand guy a thing or two! Yeah! Oh yeah, Sand would rue the day he ever crossed paths with Dlofnep!

So he made a boards login called Zand! You see, its like he took Sand, and then he changed the first letter to a Z, so it sorta sounded like Sand, but it wouldnt be actually Sand. It was a clever plan like that.

And then he posted about how great the British Army was with the only posts hes ever made on Boards.ie, and how terrible it was the Provos would try to ruin their parade. You know, cos all Sand does is post about how great the British Army is, so if Zand did it too, it would be funny. You see?

Unfortunately, all the Provos got enraged by Zand/Dlofnep and started wailing on how terrible Zand/Dlofnep was. And Zand/Dlofnep is pretty much terrible at fakeposting, and desperately attempts to control the threads they start so it was fairly obvious early on what he was doing and exactly who it was.

So all Zand/Dlofnep did was troll all the Provos [which deeply, deeply saddened me....], and made me laugh this morning and has kept me grinning every time I think of how I've reached out and touched another person so deeply that theyre bitterly hating me across the depths of the internet. Fan that flame of hatred Zand/Dlofnep, it warms my heart

dlofnep

So you agree that they should not be in Iraq Podge?

dlofnep

Sand wrote: »

Nope, Zand/Dlofnep...you see, I disagreed with Dlofnep on a thread on the internet. Dlofnep doesnt take that sort of crap from anyone, especially a West Brit British Army apologist who dared to criticise his beloved Gerry Adams! He was going to show that Sand guy a thing or two! Yeah! Oh yeah, Sand would rue the day he ever crossed paths with Dlofnep!

So he made a boards login called Zand! You see, its like he took Sand, and then he changed the first letter to a Z, so it sorta sounded like Sand, but it wouldnt be actually Sand. It was a clever plan like that.

And then he posted about how great the British Army was with the only posts hes ever made on Boards.ie, and how terrible it was the Provos would try to ruin their parade. You know, cos all Sand does is post about how great the British Army is, so if Zand did it too, it would be funny. You see?

Unfortunately, all the Provos got enraged by Zand/Dlofnep and started wailing on how terrible Zand/Dlofnep was. And Zand/Dlofnep is pretty much terrible at fakeposting, and desperately attempts to control the threads they start so it was fairly obvious early on what he was doing and exactly who it was.

So all Zand/Dlofnep did was troll all the Provos [which deeply, deeply saddened me....], and made me laugh this morning and has kept me grinning every time I think of how I've reached out and touched another person so deeply that theyre bitterly hating me across the depths of the internet. Fan that flame of hatred Zand/Dlofnep, it warms my heart

This has been the most entertaining post I've seen from you. Kudos sir.