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Sinn Fein/IRA to organise provocative march

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    #212
    TOMASJ
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭TOMASJ


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    There aren't that many Muslims in Ireland, not compared to Britain, Holland, Germany etc. If you go to some areas of the UK, such as parts of Bradford, Slough, Southall etc then the majority of people in those places are Muslim. To put it in Irish terms, imagine 50% of Finglas was Muslim.

    There is nothing wrong with that, I would agree. I lived in an area that was about 20% Muslim and the vast majority of scum bags on my estate were English. However, large numbers of second of third generation Muslims is a hunting ground for those that wish to radicalise and incite hatred. This is something that has not happened in Ireland and I hope never does.

    The difference being Fred Ireland did not invade and plunder the goods and wealth in these peoples country's, over the centuries,
    All this radical hatred that you describe didn't just appear one morning with the milk.
    Open your eyes to what the powers that be in you country are responsible for the world over.


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    #213
    Allah Hu Akbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 218 ✭✭Allah Hu Akbar


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    you forgot to mention supporting murderers, criminals and drug smugglers.

    Have you got a link for that one? Show me one bit of evidence to prove that. Diesel, cigarettes yes the PIRA made money out of it and maybe a bank job here and there but to say drugs is totally wrong, you're from the north you should know how the loyalists/republicans make their money.

    I'll be waiting on a link for the drugs!!


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    #214
    JWAD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 460 ✭✭JWAD


    TOMASJ wrote: »
    The difference being Fred Ireland did not invade and plunder the goods and wealth in these peoples country's, over the centuries
    Irish people did though. Native Americans, Aboriginals, Maori.........you name it and the Irish have slaughtered it, enslaved it or taken everything it owned


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    #215
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Allah Hu Akbar wrote: »
    Have you got a link for that one? Show me one bit of evidence to prove that. Diesel, cigarettes yes the PIRA made money out of it and maybe a bank job here and there but to say drugs is totally wrong, you're from the north you should know how the loyalists/republicans make their money.

    I'll be waiting on a link for the drugs!!

    No, I'm not from the north. Nice jumping to conclusions though.

    What did the Columbia three get in return for teaching columbian rebels how to build bombs?


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    #216
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    TOMASJ wrote: »
    The difference being Fred Ireland did not invade and plunder the goods and wealth in these peoples country's, over the centuries,
    All this radical hatred that you describe didn't just appear one morning with the milk.
    Open your eyes to what the powers that be in you country are responsible for the world over.

    The Irish did, they just did it under the flag of Britain. Which is makes it very easy for self righteous people to sit there and criticise.


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    #217
    marco murphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,715 ✭✭✭marco murphy


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    No, I'm not from the north. Nice jumping to conclusions though.

    What did the Columbia three get in return for teaching columbian rebels how to build bombs?

    Evidence? No.
    Did you get told all this in the British Army?


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    #218
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Perestroika wrote: »
    Evidence? No.
    Did you get told all this in the British Army?

    Bah, evidence.

    I thought if everyone knew something and it was stated enough times it is a fact, no?

    what were they doing in Columbia, on false passports then?


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    #219
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    sex tourism?


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    #220
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    What did the Columbia three get in return for teaching columbian rebels how to build bombs?

    Alot less than what the British soldiers are getting for murdering 8 year old girls, that's for sure. Also - It's funny that they were originally not convicted for training the rebels, but was overturned at a later date. I'm sure the Columbian system is fair and just. Why didn't the Irish government extradite them, despite an interpol request? Perhaps because they knew the law system in Columbia was a farce?
    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Bah, evidence.

    I thought if everyone knew something and it was stated enough times it is a fact, no?

    what were they doing in Columbia, on false passports then?

    They stated that they were examining the peace-process there and that it wasn't possible to enter on their own names.


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    #221
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Alot less than what the British soldiers are getting for murdering 8 year old girls, that's for sure.

    That's pretty ****ing desperate isn't it?
    dlofnep wrote: »
    Also - It's funny that they were originally not convicted for training the rebels, but was overturned at a later date. I'm sure the Columbian system is fair and just. Why didn't the Irish government extradite them, despite an interpol request? Perhaps because they knew the law system in Columbia was a farce?

    Good question, the Irish government needs to hang its head in shame over this one. It showed a complete lack of respect for another country.
    dlofnep wrote: »
    They stated that they were examining the peace-process there and that it wasn't possible to enter on their own names.

    Why?

    can you also explain why it is that not long after their arrest, their were several fertiliser based bombs in columbia?

    Now then, what was one of the guys convicted of over here.....


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    #222
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Good question, the Irish government needs to hang its head in shame over this one. It showed a complete lack of respect for another country.

    Or, it didn't believe they would have a fair trial there?

    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    can you also explain why it is that not long after their arrest, their were several fertiliser based bombs in columbia?

    Isn't this what you call "Whataboutery"?
    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Now then, what was one of the guys convicted of over here.....

    It's irrelevant. We're discussing their circumstances in Columbia. Their past does not dictate their present. They are supporters of the peace-process in Ireland. It would not make sense for them to engage in a war elsewhere, it would be hypocritical. Many people have come to Ireland to examine the peace-process here. Is it impossible to think that they have done the same in Columbia?
    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    That's pretty ****ing desperate isn't it?

    About as desperate as you bringing up the Columbia three, is it not? It's also accurate. Don't be angry with me because your beloved British soldiers shoot 8 year old girls. Be angry with them. Be angry with them that their breach basic human rights laws.


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    #223
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Isn't this what you call "Whataboutery"?

    It's irrelevant. We're discussing their circumstances in Columbia. Their past does not dictate their present. They are supporters of the peace-process in Ireland. It would not make sense for them to engage in a war elsewhere, it would be hypocritical. Many people have come to Ireland to examine the peace-process here. Is it impossible to think that they have done the same in Columbia?

    About as desperate as you bringing up the Columbia three, is it not? It's also accurate. Don't be angry with me because your beloved British soldiers shoot 8 year old girls. Be angry with them. Be angry with them that their breach basic human rights laws.

    and i see your true clours, shining through......

    don't dare criticise your beloved IRA, those peace process loving little chaps with hearts of gold.

    Whataboutery my friend is trying to use the death of an eight year old girl to detract from the IRA trying to befriend a source of supply in south america.

    Glad we can agree on one thing though, we can stop blaming the British Army for everything that went on in Ireland, after all, "Their past does not dictate their present".


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    #224
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Allah Hu Akbar wrote: »
    Have you got a link for that one? Show me one bit of evidence to prove that. Diesel, cigarettes yes the PIRA made money out of it and maybe a bank job here and there but to say drugs is totally wrong, you're from the north you should know how the loyalists/republicans make their money.

    I'll be waiting on a link for the drugs!!

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/provos-set-thugs-on-outofcontrol-members-in-south-506116.html

    I have no doubt the Loyalist terrorists made their money in the same sort of ways the IRA did. equal levels of scum as far as i am concerned.


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    #225
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    and i see your true clours, shining through......

    don't dare criticise your beloved IRA, those peace process loving little chaps with hearts of gold.

    The aren't my beloved anything. I don't support an armed campaign in Ireland.
    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Whataboutery my friend is trying to use the death of an eight year old girl to detract from the IRA trying to befriend a source of supply in south america.

    The same way you used the Columbian Three to detract from the atrocities of the British army? LOL - Two can play at this game, sir.
    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Glad we can agree on one thing though, we can stop blaming the British Army for everything that went on in Ireland, after all, "Their past does not dictate their present".

    Incorrect.

    The British army is still to this day committing acts of terror against the people of Iraq. So in this case, the past does indeed dictate the present as they have not changed. They just changed the location of the atrocities from Ireland to Iraq. Infact, I'm will to go out on a leg and state that the British army's past will indeed dictate their future as they show no intentions of ever changing. Throughout history they have been riddled with reports of human rights abuse and murder of civilians, and it's still going on today.


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    #226
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    dlofnep wrote: »
    The aren't my beloved anything. I don't support an armed campaign in Ireland.

    Why defend them then?


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    #227
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Why defend them then?

    I don't think you give a fair and balanced account of them. So if a false remark is made, like when you stated that Begley intentionally murdered children - I'll correct it. I'm not here to tell anyone that the IRA were angels. They sure weren't. But at the same point, I won't let you get away with blatantly lieing.


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    #228
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    dlofnep wrote: »
    I don't support an armed campaign in Ireland.

    What about England?


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    #229
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    stovelid wrote: »
    What about England?

    I don't support attacks on England either. Or Scotland, or Wales. Or anywhere for that matter.

    How about you stovelid - Do you support the British troops in Iraq?


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    #230
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    dlofnep wrote: »
    I don't think you give a fair and balanced account of them. So if a false remark is made, like when you stated that Begley intentionally murdered children - I'll correct it. I'm not here to tell anyone that the IRA were angels. They sure weren't. But at the same point, I won't let you get away with blatantly lieing.

    that's no different to the way you portray the British Army.


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    #231
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    dlofnep wrote: »
    How about you stovelid - Do you support the British troops in Iraq?

    I don't, as a matter of fact.

    Plenty of people do agree with the Iraq deployment though, and if a local army regiment want a homecoming parade in Belfast, I don't feel that my views should warrant it not going ahead. Or that my dislike of SF should invalidate their right to counter-protest either.

    Basically you find it hard to grasp that somebody can detest the IRA, abhor republicanism, but still disagree with an army deployment in NI or Iraq.


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    #232
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    that's no different to the way you portray the British Army.

    But yet there are countless reports of purposely breaching human rights laws by British soldiers. Go figure :rolleyes:
    stovelid wrote: »
    I don't, as a matter of fact.

    Glad to hear it.
    stovelid wrote: »
    Plenty of people do agree with the Iraq deployment though, and if a local army regiment want a homecoming parade in Belfast, I don't feel that my views should warrant it not going ahead.

    But it doesn't mean that people don't have the right to protest it, now does it?
    stovelid wrote: »
    Basically you find it hard to grasp that somebody can detest the IRA

    Eh, wrong. I don't find that hard to grasp. Many civilians died as a result of IRA operations. I can see why someone might dislike their actions.
    stovelid wrote: »
    abhor republicanism

    There is nothing wrong with the principal of Republicanism. It aims to unite Ireland.
    stovelid wrote: »
    but still disagree with an army deployment in NI or Iraq.

    Given their history in both areas, I think it's very easily to justify disagreeing with British troops in the North of Ireland or in Iraq.


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    #233
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Nearly a year after Hanan Saleh Matrud's death, her family have accrued a small pile of documents that tell of a young girl's life hardly lived.

    There is a framed portrait of the eight-year-old, her last school report card, her death certificate and finally the letter in English from B Company of the 1st Battalion of the King's Regiment that does not apologise for her death last August but accepts "as a possibility" that she may have been shot by a British soldier.

    This is one of my biggest qualms with the British forces. They are repulsive little slimeballs and never are willing to admit responsibility for their actions. An 8 year old girl dies, but yet - not even an apology is offered. And you wonder why we hate the British forces so much? Nothing has changed with them. The same on Bloody Sunday - No responsibility was taken and yet, 30 years on - history repeats itself in Iraq.

    They kill civilians and get away with it. Never man up to their actions. And you honestly expect people to not object to a parade for them?


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    #234
    TOMASJ
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭TOMASJ


    JWAD wrote: »
    Irish people did though. Native Americans, Aboriginals, Maori.........you name it and the Irish have slaughtered it, enslaved it or taken everything it owned
    Indeed they did (In the name of the crown)


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    #235
    TOMASJ
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭TOMASJ


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/provos-set-thugs-on-outofcontrol-members-in-south-506116.html
    I have no doubt the Loyalist terrorists made their money in the same sort of ways the IRA did. equal levels of scum as far as i am concerned.
    Fred when will you stop reading and believing this airy fairy stuff about what newspapers and security forces claim about the IRA,
    does the name Seamus Ludlow ring any bells ,
    now tell us who was blamed for murdering that innocent man,
    And Who really murdered him.


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    #236
    hopalong85
    Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭hopalong85


    in fairness to dlofnep, he does actually address the "points" made by fratton fred here. the same can not be said for fratton fred. he seems to simply glance over and ignore a lot of things when making a reply.

    personally i think this protest is 100% justified, and strongly disagree with any march welcoming these soldiers home after what they have been a part of during their tours in the middle east.


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    #237
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    And I, along with the many people lining the streets disagree with you 100% hopalong85 - Sinn Fein/IRA is deliberately organising a provocative march designed to take all the good out of the Homecoming of the
    'Royal Irish Rigiment' after its very successful tour of duty in Afghanistan & Iraq . . . .

    Well done to the 'Royal Irish Regiment' I say, and I hope that their homecoming is not disrupted too much by those Sinn Fein provocateurs.


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    #238
    hopalong85
    Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭hopalong85


    Camelot wrote: »
    And I, along with the many people lining the streets disagree with you 100% hopalong85 - Sinn Fein/IRA is deliberately organising a provocative march designed to take all the good out of the Homecoming of the
    'Royal Irish Rigiment' after its very successful tour of duty in Afghanistan & Iraq . . . .

    Well done to the 'Royal Irish Regiment' I say, and I hope that their homecoming is not disrupted too much by those Sinn Fein provocateurs.

    hmmm, i think it's already been stated that sinn fein did not organize this protest? can you explain what part of that you didn't understand? or perhaps you didn't read the thread and decided to just jump in with a post anyway?

    can you please explain to me how the royal irish regiment had a very successful tour of duty in iraq and afghanistan? exactly what did they successfully achieve?


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    #239
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Camelot wrote: »
    Sinn Fein/IRA is deliberately organising a provocative march

    Sinn Féin did not organise the march. Next.
    Camelot wrote: »
    designed to take all the good out of the Homecoming of the
    'Royal Irish Rigiment' after its very successful tour of duty in Afghanistan & Iraq . . . .

    What successful tour? Hundreds of civilian deaths counts as successful, does it?
    Accusations grow that authorities are trying to suppress the consequences of waging a war in a populated area such as the Helmand valley. The International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), which oversees British and international forces in Afghanistan, warned that queries risked ‘treading on dangerous territory’. Despite admitting that all reports of civilian casualties were logged, a spokesman said they were too ‘busy’ to provide data.

    Using hospital data from the region, however, independent researchers have substantiated at least 348 civilian deaths caused by British, Nato and US operations in Helmand in the first six months of the year. Another 118 were injured. Last year international forces killed 320.


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    #240
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    I think you will find hopalong85, that I have been in this thread since Post#132 (so I didnt just drop in), and as regards a successful Tour of Duty - as far as I am aware there have been NO scandals, NO Civilians killed, and NO serious Faux Pas comitted by the 'Royal Irish Regiment' in Afghanistan or Iraq on this latest tour of Duty ............

    Or did I miss something?


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    #241
    hopalong85
    Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭hopalong85


    Camelot wrote: »
    I think you will find hopalong85, that I have been in this thread since Post#132 (so I didnt just drop in), and as regards a successful Tour of Duty - as far as I am aware there have been NO scandals, NO Civilians killed, and NO serious Faux Pas comitted by the 'Royal Irish Regiment' in Afghanistan or Iraq on this latest tour of Duty ............

    Or did I miss something?

    so you didn't just drop in, in that case please retract your statement that sinn fein organized this protest. they didn't. thank you. (nice how you completely ignored that part of my post).

    civilians have been killed by an army which the royal irish regiment forms a part of. they are involved in what many consider to be an illegal and unjust war. that does not make them or their tour of duty "sucessful".

    also, yes you did miss something, the fact that sinn fein did not organize this protest march.


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