Colin Powell set to endorse Obama

Jack Sheehan

brianthebard wrote: »

How was it a hatchet job?

Yeah it seemed pretty measured to me, relatively at least.

Memnoch

brianthebard wrote: »

How was it a hatchet job?

They left out a lot of the important things he said. The truly inspiring and powerful stuff in his interview that makes the case for WHY he chose Obama. It's a clever article by Fox. Minimising the reasons for Powell's endorsement as much as they can. They are doing the same on the channel.

The results of this are reflected in the comments below the post. i.e. Powell's endorsement is about race, not about all the thoughtful and provocative issues he talks about.

brianthebard

Pfft, the speech itself was just seven minutes, but I doubt it will be repeated in its entirety on cnn or other stations? As for the comments, firstly fox can't control what people say or think and secondly these people would have said those things no matter what.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/19/colin.powell/index.html
For an article twice the length, the only thing added from the speech of any importance would be

In regard to the financial crisis, which Powell called the candidates' "final exam," Powell said McCain appeared unsteady in dealing with it, while Obama had excelled in handling the situation.


"Obama displayed a steadiness, an intellectual curiosity, a depth of knowledge," Powell said.
"He has met the standard of being a successful president, being an exceptional president," he said.

Not that big a difference imo.

Memnoch

brianthebard wrote: »

Pfft, the speech itself was just seven minutes, but I doubt it will be repeated in its entirety on cnn or other stations? As for the comments, firstly fox can't control what people say or think and secondly these people would have said those things no matter what.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/19/colin.powell/index.html
For an article twice the length, the only thing added from the speech of any importance would be

Not that big a difference imo.

I think they left out a lot more. I'm not going to bother getting into a detailed argument about it though since at the end of the day it's not going to make a huge difference whether I convince you or not.

I've watched a lot of fox news, and I think I have a pretty good idea of how they operate. Gotta admit though, they are damn good at what they do, and can be subtle too when the need arises.

Lirange

I think Powell made the case quite well.

Craft25

Overheal wrote: »

for those of us that still place Powell on the same shelf as the bush administration, whats so special about mr. powell that makes him an upstanding gentleman?

what is so important about mr. powell is precisely what makes him different from the bush administration:
he created a template for war that involved flooding the invaded country with as much US manpower as can be mustered (which is subsequently supposed to be followed by restoring infrastructure/water/electricity & handing over power to the strongest faction present) **he carried this out to a tee in Gulf 1 until Bush Snr. stupidly decided to put the machine into reverse**

His template was COMPLETELY IGNORED by Defsec donald rumsfeld who decided to reform the US military into a lean fighting machine whereby it would go in and out quickly, with minimal troop numbers and be able to be shifted around the globe to whereever the next conflict may arise...

Powell decided to stay in the Bush administration in the belief (naively IMO) that he could fight from the inside and make rumsfeld see sense..

Powell is hugely respected among those with military connections in the US.. as most of the military fought Rumsfeld and his blind obstinance all the way down the line..

Basically.. powell built the greatest, most effective army the world has seen, and the Bush administration ripped it apart

But you have a point.. how many ordinary voters will know about this.. not many.. but among military & Vets, especially in battleground states like Florida, NC and virginia it will definitely give Obama comander in chief credentials

Craft25

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27265729#27265729

full interview on meet the press

Dave!

Pretty damn perfect endorsement there from Powell...... If it gets widespread airtime then it could certainly sway some independents.

Hard to see how McCain could possibly come back now, but I shalln't be counting my chickens.

cooker3

I doubt this will make much of a difference to any independent voters. I think endorsements in general are pretty over-rated
What it does do is add to the general sense of invincibility and inevitably about the Obama campaign currently. Although that is not necessarily a good thing. Obama's biggest challenge may well be to ensure people don't think it's a forgone conclusion and actually come out to vote for him

mikemac

The Raven. wrote: »

I have always had great respect for Colin Powell as a dignified and honest statesman. In fact I think he would make a particularly good president. He would have been a great choice as VP for John McCain, but perhaps his support for abortion rights and "reasonable" gun control might not have augured well.

+1
I didn't know that about his policies, I'll take your word for it Raven

Hobbes wrote: »

- One of the Elitist

He's no elitist! Came from a poor family in Harlem, New York to some of the most senior posts in his country.
I recommend his autobiography to all

The Raven.

micmclo wrote: »

I didn't know that about his policies, I'll take your word for it Raven

'He is pro-choice regarding abortion, and in favor of "reasonable" gun control.'

Cited from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Powell#cite_note-issues-33

I usually find Wikipedia pretty accurate and they give links to sources. I wasn't passing judgement on the abortion issue or the gun control, but merely commenting on the fact that they may have contributed to his not being McCain's VP, although he appears to be reluctant to run anyway, for either side.

Overheal

Any comments about Powell endorsing Obama because he is black are totally misleading. After all the last tim I heard, Powell was now officially White:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=1927655158

will be interesting to see if he is part of Obama's cabinet. But there we go assuming Obama has the election in the bag again. the problem with all this landslide expectation is it can potentially damage the number of voters that feel compelled to make it out to the polls on election day.

Manic Moran

Basically.. powell built the greatest, most effective army the world has seen, and the Bush administration ripped it apart

Let's not exaggerate it, here.

Through absolutely no fault of his own, he was in charge as the US military started to radically downsize following the collapse of the Warsaw Pact. He inherited a huge, but highly capable 3rd Generation legacy force, which won the 1991 Gulf War., but had already started to reduce in scale. This accelerated after the 1991 war on the basis of the Peace Dividend. By the time he left, the force was smaller than it was when he got it, but without any of the next generation of equipment which was due to show up. Indeed, the majority of the modernisation plans for the legacy force were cancelled after Powell left, and the military capabilities reached a low during the Clinton years. Towards the end of the Clinton years the US military shifted focus to 4th Generation warfare and an effort to do more with less based on technology. By the time the 2003 Iraq invasion came along, a few of the new technologies were starting to filter through, but ultimately the war was fought and won by a legacy force using the same 1991-era technology, doctrine and tactics which Powell inherited. Over the last five years, the military's capability has increased dramatically, even without the increase in manpower. I can't speak for the other services, but the Army's had quite major leaps forward in the past few years, both in terms of technology and training. I have absolutely no doubt that the US Army of today is far more capable than that of 2000, and it's getting better all the time. Powell was an excellent CJCS, but not the Patton of Force Generation.

Craft25 wrote: »

But you have a point.. how many ordinary voters will know about this.. not many.. but among military & Vets, especially in battleground states like Florida, NC and virginia it will definitely give Obama comander in chief credentials

Unlikely, for several reasons. Firstly, you'll note that Powell's reasons for endoresement did not include CINC qualifications. It mainly revolved around what Powell thought most important right now (economy) and a dislike to the direction that the Republican party has turned, which is hard to argue against. Secondly, I don't think I've ever met a soldier who cares about endorsements. Thirdly, if a serviceman is voting on CINC credentials, Obama's going to lose to McCain. Period. If CINC credentials are not the prority for any particular military voter (eg they're more worried about the economy), then it doesn't matter if Powell thinks he'd make a good CINC or not, just like anyone else, they'll vote on what they think is important.

NTM

Hobbes

Craft25 wrote: »

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27265729#27265729

full interview on meet the press

Brilliant interview. Covers everything.

Surprised he didn't try for P/VP.

Podge_irl

Manic Moran wrote: »

Thirdly, if a serviceman is voting on CINC credentials, Obama's going to lose to McCain. Period.

Can I ask why? Its not a leading question, I'm genuinely curious. I realise McCain has served but presumably that alone does not qualify as "CINC credentials".

Manic Moran

Surprised he didn't try for P/VP.

A lot of Republicans didn't think he'd have had a chance. Given the climate of the time a year ago during the Primary season, he'd have never have survived past the first clip of his standing in front of the UN and saying "Iraq has WMD." That and he's been tainted by association with Bush. I think it's a bit stupid, personally, but that's life.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Can I ask why? Its not a leading question, I'm genuinely curious. I realise McCain has served but presumably that alone does not qualify as "CINC credentials".

It may sound immature, but it does have huge sway. People in any industry tend to prefer bosses who understand from personal experience what goes on at their own lower level. Both in terms of practical issues, and culture. Just imagine yourself in your own job if you were introduced to a new boss who came in from an entirely different industry and had little knowledge of what life is for yourself except for what he has picked up in passing. But he says he's got some great ideas for you!
Now, there doesn't seem to be anywhere near the same level of aversion to Obama as there was to Clinton, so at least he's not encumbered by active hostility.

NTM

Black Swan

Heard comments on the radio by Obama about Powell today, regarding Powell as a valued adviser. There was also some hint that if elected president, he might be talking to Powell about a "permanent" relationship. Although Powell is a Republican, my guess is that Obama will overlook that and consider him for Secretary of Defense. He would make a grand one, having reached the highest uniformed position in the US military as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, plus his emphasis on diplomacy first, unlike Bush, who likes to "shoot first and ask questions later."

Victor

Manic Moran wrote: »

A lot of Republicans didn't think he'd have had a chance. Given the climate of the time a year ago during the Primary season, he'd have never have survived past the first clip of his standing in front of the UN and saying "Iraq has WMD." That and he's been tainted by association with Bush. I think it's a bit stupid, personally, but that's life.

He probably would have had to use a "the party has losts its way" line after using the "I was following the President's instructions" line. Probably not a great way to get selected.

It may sound immature, but it does have huge sway. People in any industry tend to prefer bosses who understand from personal experience what goes on at their own lower level. Both in terms of practical issues, and culture. Just imagine yourself in your own job if you were introduced to a new boss who came in from an entirely different industry and had little knowledge of what life is for yourself except for what he has picked up in passing. But he says he's got some great ideas for you!

But the military is only one constituency. Obama can call on law and other professions, education, ethnic minorities and others that McCain can't call on as well as Obama.

irish_bob

personally , i think colin powell would make a much better president than obama

The Raven.

irish_bob wrote: »

personally , i think colin powell would make a much better president than obama

Absolutely!

Manic Moran

I agree. But it's what we've got.

NTM

Mr.Micro

irish_bob wrote: »

personally , i think colin powell would make a much better president than obama

This is the same man who stood before the UN security council pointing out Iraq's weapons of destruction using maps and a slide show. He is on the ball, still probably as much as Bush was but Powell maybe has changed his leopard spots?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

I think bob barr would make a far better president than anyone else mentioned in this thread

don't throw your vote away, vote barr

dave2pvd

Mordeth wrote: »

I think bob barr would make a far better president than anyone else mentioned in this thread

don't throw your vote away, vote barr

Indeed.

I truly crave 2 ultra-conservative supreme court nominations.

:eek:

"Libertarian, except for when it comes to morality".

I wish people would research back a bit further on Barr. His current anti-Republican Party soundbites may make for sweet snacks, but there's a lot more (less?) to the man than you might think.

And wtf is up with that daft looking mustache?

Overature

Obama better get it, mc cain is red neck white trash republican exactly like bush. the country needs change and they aint going to get it from the republicans.

brianthebard

Mr.Micro wrote: »

This is the same man who stood before the UN security council pointing out Iraq's weapons of destruction using maps and a slide show. He is on the ball, still probably as much as Bush was but Powell maybe has changed his leopard spots?

Yes and used a vial of "anthrax" to further scaremonger make his point. I think he was very compelling in the video posted above but I'm not so sure how much he can be said to have disapproved of the war.

Ludo

irish_bob wrote: »

personally , i think colin powell would make a much better president than obama

Couldn't agree more. I think Powell would have made an excellent president..but for which party? I know he is a republican but does not share all the same values as the "base".

That to me is part of the problem with American politics. It is too black or white in terms of party policy. You can go against some party lines when running for lesser offices but when going for president, you better be onside with the "base" or there will be hell to pay.

Trojan

Overature wrote: »

mc cain is red neck white trash republican exactly like bush

Abusive or racist language (against any candidate/party/demographic/boards user) will not be tolerated. This is your only warning.

Black Swan

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democrat Barack Obama has opened an 8-point lead over Republican John McCain two weeks before the U.S. presidential election, according to a Reuters/C-SPAN/Zogby poll released on Tuesday."

"Maybe this is the Powell effect," Zogby said. "That wasn't just an endorsement, that was a pretty powerful statement."

tinker_52

It was an impressive, smoothly-delivered statement made by Mr. Powell, in his endorsement of Sen. Obama on Meet the Press. Yet, I have a problem with the way he sharpened it to a point in regard to the "direction, the Republican Campaign had recently taken." Next thing I was expecting was how they're "mean-spirited." At least he didn't try that over-used phrase. Sen. McCain's not done the best job directing the folks' (might I say, lemmings) attention to the 800-lb gorilla in the room. Powell's free to have his opinions, but you can't change facts.

There is something to the Obama-Ayers connection, but in a vain attempt to confront it in the PC-sensitive, media-driven final weeks of the Race, McCain settled for a metaphor that doesn't quite fit; Bill Ayers may be old (if he's old, so am I. Uh-oh! Washed-up?), but so long as he's breathing, he's an unrepentent terrorist. He thumbs his nose at the U.S., and tramples on The Flag. He wishes he'd "done more.." Mr. Powell, everybody gets it. Barack Obama doesn't have "terrorist inclinations," as you chose to characterize the expressed concerns of Republicans.

No, he simply has very poor judgment, in the associations he makes. Whether it be Ayers, whom he evidently knew well enough to blurb his book (that'd have to be a pretty good acquaintance), or the other rascals. Obama, he's so coo-ool. When confronted on Ayers, he rolls his eyes, indicating what? Boredom, that the question is so trivial, a waste of time?

After all, he claimed at first, Ayers is "just some guy in my neighborhood." Wait, let's see. We gotcha, you were only eight when he was perpetrating domestic terror, BUT, by the time you were introduced to him in his home, at your campaign organizer, he was an Urban Legend, he had street cred'! He'd stuck it to the Man and, as he puts it, to his admirers, "Guilty as hell and Free. I love this country!"

So, we all get it, Mr. Powell - Obama's no terrorist. He just has this way of surrounding himself with unsavory people, whether it's Resko, Wright, Ayers, Raines, Pfleger, et al. I'll cut off the list there, in the interest of brevity. Such ideas (steeped in 60's-era Marxism), as these? Call it inclusiveness - the likes of which I can do without. Poor judgment does not make for a good CIC.

BTW I met then-Gen. Powell, in '92, at a returning Vets' reception at the USDoS. Thereafter, I've taken an interest in how his career progressed. He was an insider, On Iraq, certainly, no one kept a thing from him, as Secretary of State - Really now... He need not feel as if he needs to absolve himself from the '03 UN speech, but that appears to be what he's seeking. Still, his endorsement's likely to secure him any appointment he chooses in an Obama administration.