Prem thread - Late edition. (scores inside)

estebancambias

i'd agree with that as well.

Xavi6

Didn't see the game unfotunately but as a general rule a team should not be ballsing up a one goal lead against ten men.

Reading the comments on the City forums we were shite and barely deserved a point.

Superman to the rescue yet again.

Charlie

Xavi6 wrote: »

Didn't see the game unfotunately but as a general rule a team should not be ballsing up a one goal lead against ten men.

Reading the comments on the City forums we were shite and barely deserved a point.

Superman to the rescue yet again.

That was it there or there about. Our defence held well, and the midfield constantly chased men down, but that aside, City looked very lacking in terms of someone making a run for the through ball, or just someone being there to finish chances, get on the end of a cross yada yada yada.

Given that he knew Owen would be out, Martins was only 70% fit, and Shola Ameobi, a player who hasn't scored in donkey's years, would be starting, I would question Hughes' decision to start both Kompany and Didi. Elano probably could have done a job and linked up well with Ireland and create killer chances like they have in the past.

Xavi6

I was surprised Elano wasn't brought on when it was 11 v 10. We didn't need two holding players. Some of Hughes' substitutions have been baffling to say the least so far.

Charlie

Question for you Xavi, after monitoring the City forums (blue moon mainly) for the last few hours, it strikes me that a fair few of the posters are very fickle when it comes to Dunne. Are they forgetting all his good work pre-ADUG? The attitude that was coming across to me was that 'we've got wads of cash, once Jan. comes, thanks but no thanks dunney, on yer bike'

Now I know it's an Internet forum, but would that be reflective of a fair few City fans?

Xavi6

Lol well for startes, going on Bluemoon was your first mistake! I don't I've ever seen a bigger shower of **** in my life. Most of them are a disgrace to the club. Ben Haim was getting absolutely ripped to shreds when the team was announced, before he'd even made it onto the pitch. They're a bunch of school going keyboard warriors.

Anyway, there is a feeling that while Dunne has been undoubtedly an amazing servant to the club, he is not someone who will take us to the next level. He has been a liability on a number of occassions, and unfortunatley defenders are judged on mistakes more than anything else.

He's 29 so still has 3 or 4 good years in him left, though I don't think they are going to be at a club that harbours Champions League ambitions (even if they are just pipe dreams at this stage). There have been calls to try Kompany at the back but then we don't have a holding player with Hamann pretty much done and Gelson being too crap.

I don't want Dunne to go, maybe out of nostalgia, but I do feel he will be one of the victims of the upcoming spending spree.

Just on a side note, no one is exempt from criticism - even golden boy Richards has his fair share of haters, particularly since the start of the season.

estebancambias

He should join Juventus. He's better than Mellberg.

vincenzo1975

good result for Joe kinear tonight, didnt think they had a chance. Cant help feeling Hughes is a bit negative and ordinary for a team with such potential flair.

Charlie

Xavi6 wrote: »

Lol well for startes, going on Bluemoon was your first mistake! I don't I've ever seen a bigger shower of **** in my life. Most of them are a disgrace to the club. Ben Haim was getting absolutely ripped to shreds when the team was announced, before he'd even made it onto the pitch. They're a bunch of school going keyboard warriors.

Ah, fair enough. Yeah it did strike me that there was alot of negativity and witch hunting vibes.

Xavi6 wrote: »

I don't want Dunne to go, maybe out of nostalgia, but I do feel he will be one of the victims of the upcoming spending spree.

I'd be really gutted to see Dunne shipped on, from a moral (don't really think that's the right word) POV. He's been a great servant to City over the last few years, hasn't he won POY 4 years running? For me, it's pretty classless to ship someone like that out, all because you've got the potential of a 'new toy' to play with. City fans, for all they have been through, I would hope know a few things about loyalty and principles.

Fair enough if he was 33 or 34, or he was consistently average. But he is neither, and as I have said, done great work for City. Loyalty should be a two way street.

I think City would be selling some of their principles off if they were to cast someone like Dunne aside so easily.

Just my 2 cents.

Xavi6

All well and good being loyal Charlie but it's like that dog you've had all your childhood. He keeps getting older and sicker and really should be put down, but you cling on in the faint hope that one day he'll be out in the back garden chasing balls again.

That's what will happen with Dunne unless someone has the balls to say it's time to move forward.

estebancambias

Dunne looked horrible tonight, but I think Joe Hart is the problem. He seems good but then at times just doesn't seem ready. I think Dunne misses Sven and Isaksson should not have been sold.

Charlie

Xavi6 wrote: »

All well and good being loyal Charlie but it's like that dog you've had all your childhood. He keeps getting older and sicker and really should be put down, but you cling on in the faint hope that one day he'll be out in the back garden chasing balls again.

That's what will happen with Dunne unless someone has the balls to say it's time to move forward.

Is that really a fair assessment to make given that he is probably in his peak years? Like I said, I could understand those comments if he was in Gary Neville territory, but he isn't.

It was only last weekend that he put on a defensive masterclass, albeit in the green of Ireland, but a terrific performance all the same, and one which should only encourage City fans that the best is possibly yet to come from him.

On a much lighter note, I saw this today and got a chuckle out of it.



Night lads.

LuckyLloyd

It will surely be hard to bring in two center halves better than Dunne no matter how much money you have to spend. So what if he was bad tonight - he's been the best thing about ye for a while now.

Xavi6

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It will surely be hard to bring in two center halves better than Dunne no matter how much money you have to spend. So what if he was bad tonight - he's been the best thing about ye for a while now.

He hasn't. Stephen Ireland has.

dereko1969

can't see the point in selling Dunne, he's been brilliant for us this season even though he wasn't great last night. he's one of the best centre backs in the EPL so who would you suggest getting in instead?

we played a lot like arsenal in the first half last night, lots of possession but trying to walk the ball into the goal and we didn't seem to have a plan b. i think evans should have come on as playing 1 up front against 10 men is playing into their hands. thought robinho was very poor and i was fed up seeing jo on the wings need him in the box.

any word on micah's injury? he looked like he was loving playing full back and sprinting up the wings. thought ben haim did well.

ah well we need a win soon hopefully stoke will provide that...

Xavi6

Forget Evans, Elano should have been on at half time. I simply cannot understand the thinking behind keeping him on the bench given the situation.

Just saw the goals and it's typical City really. 3 richochets and an horrific slice for the first and then a stunning finish from Dunne.

Mr Alan

Xavi?! are you for real?

dunne has been your best player for the last 5 years or so....he is more than good enough to play Champions League, i have no doubt you have compared him favourably with the likes of carragher,vidic etc on these very boards.....now cause you have money he is not good enough and could be traded up?!

if you sell him and "trade up", i bet Dunne in playing CL football before man city.

i can think of only only about 5-6 defenders in the PL who are better, and none would go to City-so who would you replace him with?

Xavi6

I was merely reiterating what the fans have been saying, which is what Charlie asked.

Dunne is mistake prone, always has been. He's been banging OGs for years. There is no doubting he is a very, very good defender but cracks are starting to appear and I don't think now that he would stroll into any of the top 4 defences.

Rio/Vidic
Terry/Carvalho
Gallas/Toure
Carragher/Skrtel

All are currently great partnerships and Dunne wouldn't break any of them up. He is good enough definitely for a top 8 side but not Champions League unfortunately. This season has shown it.

Mr Alan

Dunne would get into Arsenals defence imo.

Xavi6

Not a chance.

I love Dunne. He's been a fantastic player for us but if we are to move to the next level then we need better than him.

_blank_

Fickle.

Sherifu

You're being very hard on Dunne here. I'd score an OG too if Hart clattered into me like that.

Mr Alan

we'll never agree

btw, i'd take him at Liverpool if we werent so well stocked in that dept. ie: i think he is good enough to play qualifying and competing in the CL.

He'd be a starter for Arsenal imo.

And would be the third best at Chelsea & Utd, pushing people close when form etc comes into play.

But all of a sudden he's not good enough for city

:rolleyes:

jesus_thats_gre

Sure before Liverpool got Skrtel, we were trying to get Dunne for that position..

Boggles

Xavi6 wrote: »

Not a chance.

I love Dunne. He's been a fantastic player for us but if we are to move to the next level then we need better than him.

Your been unfair to Dunne, the list you reeled off are Centre back partnerships that have grown over time, Vidic/Ferdinand, Terry/Carv, Carra/Skrtel, personally I don't think much of the Arse central paring.

Dunne has been carrying the can on his own, I don't rate Richards as a CB. Put Dunne in with any combination of the top 3 CB pairings mentioned and I think it would be formidable.

Charlie

I think he'd be good enough to partner Carra, or to get one of the Arsenal spots. Arsenal certainly look devoid of organisation and leadership at the back, something Dunne could give them.

New money is very unbecoming of you Xavi :pac:

Frisbee

Xavi6 wrote: »

I don't think now that he would stroll into any of the top 4 defences.

Rio/Vidic
Terry/Carvalho
Gallas/Toure
Carragher/Skrtel

He'd be very welcome at the Emirates Xavi, any chance you could get onto Hughsie and sort that out for me?

Xavi6

Des wrote: »

Fickle.

Fickle me arse. It's looking at the team and seeing weakness. He's not the only one who will be on the chopping block come January/May.

Mr Alan wrote: »

we'll never agree

btw, i'd take him at Liverpool if we werent so well stocked in that dept. ie: i think he is good enough to play qualifying and competing in the CL.

He'd be a starter for Arsenal imo.

And would be the third best at Chelsea & Utd, pushing people close when form etc comes into play.

But all of a sudden he's not good enough for city

:rolleyes:

Let me put it in layman's terms -

We want to be in the Champions League alongside 3 of the 4 mentioned. So if he's not good enough for them why should he be good enough for us.

He's good enough for 6th - 10th Manchester City but that's not what we're aiming for anymore.

charlie mchugh wrote: »

New money is very unbecoming of you Xavi :pac:

Possibly, but it's a cut throat business and sometimes people have to go.

Fergie was slated when he sold Hughes, Kanchelskis and Ince yet went on to have unbelievable success.

All I'm saying is that a changing of the guard is needed to go to the next level.

Frisbee wrote: »

He'd be very welcome at the Emirates Xavi, any chance you could get onto Hughsie and sort that out for me?

You can have him as part of the Fabregas deal

Charlie

Just be careful what you wish for.

It wasn't all that long ago that Martin Jol was deemed to be surplus to requirements at Spurs, incapable of bringing them forward, and look where they now sit. Spurs are a very good example of why mass changes are a big no no. Jermaine Jenas is the most senior player at the club, and default captain because of it.

Dunne has qualities that (Leadership, experience, heritage within the club, the trust of his peers) money very often cannot replace.

The comparison to Fergie and the clearout of 95 is well off. He knew he had the players capable of winning things coming through. City don't. It's just speculation that they will be able to sign better replacements.

PHB

Dunne's always been accident prone. That's how he is. At his age, he is unlikely to cut it out.

estebancambias

Dunne is a great organiser and with a proper defender partner and goalkeeper would be great. I do agree that he's not the pinnacle in quality of centre backs, but how can you say he isn't a champions league defender Xavi? ****ing David Weir and Stephen McMannus are Champions League defenders.

delija_sever029

This thread is so 3 days ago;)

Mr Alan

Xavi6 wrote: »

Let me put it in layman's terms -We want to be in the Champions League alongside 3 of the 4 mentioned. So if he's not good enough for them why should he be good enough for us

Laymans terms back at you-
He'd be in Arsenals first choice centre halves at the minute.
If Carrgagher retired in the morning, I'd think Dunne would be an excellent choice to come in and replace him and tutor the still a tad young Agger & Skrtel.
He'd be good enough to be 3rd choice at Utd or Chelsea, and would be seriously pushing for a starting place in em both.

A few short weeks ago you were comparing your first team to Liverpools and hailing how you'd be able to take em, i remember your exact words at the time "we've nothing to fear from Liverpool", now you need to sell arguably your best player of the last decade as he is holding you back.

its laughable tbh

PHB wrote: »

Dunne's always been accident prone. That's how he is. At his age, he is unlikely to cut it out.

so has Carragher & Ferdinand, its was you get the other 360 odd days of the year that makes em vital.

Frisbee

Xavi6 wrote: »

You can have him as part of the Fabregas deal

Boat. Get it!

PHB

Mr Alan wrote: »

so has Carragher & Ferdinand, its was you get the other 360 odd days of the year that makes em vital.

Except that there were periods in each of those peoples careers where they managed to cut it out. Carragher had it 2-3 years ago, while Ferdinand is having it currently. Can't see Dunne ever getting that, but if he does, he will rightly be a top 4 CB. Dont think it'll happen myself personally.

Xavi6

Mr Alan wrote: »

A few short weeks ago you were comparing your first team to Liverpools and hailing how you'd be able to take em, i remember your exact words at the time "we've nothing to fear from Liverpool", now you need to sell arguably your best player of the last decade as he is holding you back.

We don't have anything to fear from Liverpool. On our day we can match them and anyone else.

However it's games against the likes of Fulham (threw away a lead last season), Newcastle (threw away a lead against ten men) and Middlebrough (got done over 8-1) that need sorting. Those are the games Dunne goes missing in. Superb in the derby almost every time but crap against average strikers from average teams. Big game player but that's just not enough for us to be consistent.

PHB wrote: »

Except that there were periods in each of those peoples careers where they managed to cut it out. Carragher had it 2-3 years ago, while Ferdinand is having it currently. Can't see Dunne ever getting that, but if he does, he will rightly be a top 4 CB. Dont think it'll happen myself personally.

That's it in a nutshell really