Opinions wanted for a tough choice...

whiterebel · 20-10-2008 10:19am #1

Seems to be some pretty well opinionated people here for cars so I'd like to hear opinions with these. Looking to buy in January, and we've decided to go for dream car. Down to 4.....I don't drive quickly, my 1.9TDi 90BHP Passat has done me ok for 6 years.

All have roughly same spec....Climate, Cruise, alloys, trip CD etc, etc.

BMW 318D Possibly "Edition" model, Leather included. More expensive than the rest, BUT €500 for its servicing over 5 years!!!!! Wife loves BMW> Cheap road tax, great MPG €42k ish.
09 version is out, but Edition is different from 08 and 09 versions. Kearys in Cork have 60 Editions available.

Audi A4 120BHP SE Was never a fan really when I drove a 96 one, too high, too narrow - But the new one is gorgeous looking from the outside, and looks nice inside from brochure too. €38.5K ish

Saab 9-3 Linear Sport 1.9 TDi 120BHP Always liked Saab, but wondered about reliability. So much cheaper than Beemer as to make resale value a non-issue? Has Leather included for the price. Road tax 290. €37K ish

Lexus 220D Actually drove an 08 one last week. Beautiful car. hard to believe you can get a Lexus for 40K. Heavier on Road Tax at €430, but fantastic car to drive.

Car-dealer · 20-10-2008 10:24am

Hi

if you've got €40,000 to spend in todays market, get yourself the very best.

If you go for a Saab, go for the Aero Version with leather 17inch alloys ect, not the base Linear model.

For a BMW, would you not consider a 5-series, even if you had to go down from new to near new? That would be my choice.

Lexus are goo too!

whiterebel · 20-10-2008 10:28am

Car-dealer wrote: »

Hi

if you've got €40,000 to spend in todays market, get yourself the very best.

If you go for a Saab, go for the Aero Version with leather 17inch alloys ect, not the base Linear model. €46K before the dealer gets started. Don't need 180BHP.

For a BMW, would you not consider a 5-series, even if you had to go down from new to near new? That would be my choice.

Lexus are goo too!

Don't need a 5 series. Don't need an A6. Don't need LS300.

Bandara · 20-10-2008 10:32am

Don't buy the 4 cylinder BMWs, they are crap in comparison with the real 6 cyl. machines

whiterebel · 20-10-2008 10:34am

Hammertime wrote: »

Don't buy the 4 cylinder BMWs, they are crap in comparison with the real 6 cyl. machines

Crap as in?

Anan1 · 20-10-2008 10:37am

Car-dealer wrote: »

For a BMW, would you not consider a 5-series, even if you had to go down from new to near new? That would be my choice.

The 5 series is older, not as well finished inside IMO, and has poorer NCAP results. From what the OP has told us, i'd recommend the 318d.

Car-dealer · 20-10-2008 10:39am

sounds like you know what you want then - but you sometimes cant compare apples and pears...they are both fruit but taste very different!

I'd say Saab for high mpg, low tax and a bit of style, or Lexus for a bit of class! The choice as they say, is yours.

whiterebel · 20-10-2008 10:46am

Car-dealer wrote: »

sounds like you know what you want then - but you sometimes cant compare apples and pears...they are both fruit but taste very different!

I'd say Saab for high mpg, low tax and a bit of style, or Lexus for a bit of class! The choice as they say, is yours.

I should have explained maybe a little better. Was against BMW because of their shambles with earlier problems with their diesels. Had a look anyway, just to keep her happy, even though I knew they were way more expensive. Shocked with the servicing deal you can get for it, so now I need to sit down and figure in servicing etc over 5 years for the other 3.

A4 looks the biz, as does the lexus. Saab seems to offer good value, good MPG etc and might be a good compromise. We'll probably test drive BMW and Lexus this week, maybe get all 4 done in the week, which will give us a better idea.

Lumen · 20-10-2008 11:14am

whiterebel wrote: »

Seems to be some pretty well opinionated people here for cars so I'd like to hear opinions with these. Looking to buy in January, and we've decided to go for dream car.

Since you're inviting opinionated...

All those cars are crap. Well, not crap, but certainly the stuff of very odd dreams. Perhaps you dream of diesel clatter, skinny powerbands and massive depreciation, but I don't.

To make progress, you must first break down your dreams. What exactly do these cars offer that you want and need? "New car smell"? Interior space? Fuel economy? 09 plate? Shiniest car on the housing estate?

whiterebel · 20-10-2008 11:22am

Lumen wrote: »

Since you're inviting opinionated...

All those cars are crap. Well, not crap, but certainly the stuff of very odd dreams. Perhaps you dream of diesel clatter, skinny powerbands and massive depreciation, but I don't.

To make progress, you must first break down your dreams. What exactly do these cars offer that you want and need? "New car smell"? Interior space? Fuel economy? 09 plate? Shiniest car on the housing estate?

Jesus, and I thought I had issues....

Have driven diesels for 13 or 14 years, don't like petrols to drive, and do the mileage to justify it. Fuel economy yes, 2/3 year warranty, I presume there will be another shiny new car on the estate quite quickly, so no to that one.
4k diffference between on 08 Lexus s/h and brand new? Might as well go new in my opinion. Other than that, I did ask for opinions on the cars quoted, rather than a psychological assessment.

bazz26 · 20-10-2008 11:25am

If your buying new then I would not buy the SAAB to be honest, depreciation on them is harsh but as a second hand buy they are good value.

If looking at the BMW 3 Series I would try and stretch to the more powerful 320d, not alot more expensive to run than the 318d. Both are 2.0 litre diesel.

Lexus has good standard kit but the 2.2 litre is a bit rough for a "premium" junior executive car, also tax bands are not kind to it.

Wild card:
Alfa Romeo 159 1.9 JTm: beautiful car with an excellent diesel engine and excellent drive. Depreciation seems to be steady on them especially the diesels. Downsides are that dealer after sales is generally poor.

Bandara · 20-10-2008 11:29am

whiterebel wrote: »

Jesus, and I thought I had issues....

Have driven diesels for 13 or 14 years, don't like petrols to drive, and do the mileage to justify it. Fuel economy yes, 2/3 year warranty, I presume there will be another shiny new car on the estate quite quickly, so no to that one.
4k diffference between on 08 Lexus s/h and brand new? Might as well go new in my opinion. Other than that, I did ask for opinions on the cars quoted, rather than a psychological assessment.

wtf?

rebel, with respect, your worrying so much about servicing, depreciation, running costs, price etc etc that i'd suggest you buy some other car in a lower price bracket. I'm not casting this as areflection on you but your just scraping into the low end of the 'luxury' car market with your choices, and these cars are not cheap to run, are not cheap to service, get hit by large depreciation and are generally not as economical as the 'normal' cars out there.

You seem to be buying one for the wrong reasons imo? Its a luxury car, enjoy it, if your worring about everything around it your better off in a Bora imo.

dlambirl · 20-10-2008 11:32am

my choice would either be the A4 or the BMW - either 318D or 320.
so it would come down to (for me) the extras in both. servicing costs and mpg and which one comes out on top

Biro · 20-10-2008 11:32am

whiterebel wrote: »

I should have explained maybe a little better. Was against BMW because of their shambles with earlier problems with their diesels. Had a look anyway, just to keep her happy, even though I knew they were way more expensive. Shocked with the servicing deal you can get for it, so now I need to sit down and figure in servicing etc over 5 years for the other 3.

A4 looks the biz, as does the lexus. Saab seems to offer good value, good MPG etc and might be a good compromise. We'll probably test drive BMW and Lexus this week, maybe get all 4 done in the week, which will give us a better idea.

I wouldn't bother with the Saab when the 159 is available for less money with the same diesel engines and far more style and rarity.
Of the other 3, none are my cup of tea, but the 3 series isn't as nice inside as the A4, but a lot better to drive with a better diesel engine, and cheaper road tax and servicing to boot. Lexus I only know about from reports, which all said it disappoints compared to expectations looking at the data, but if you like it then it's a bit rarer than the others.
159 would be my choice, they're holding their value as well as the 9-3's, due to their rarity, and Alfa were offering 3 years free servicing, but not sure if they still are.

whiterebel · 20-10-2008 11:36am

Hammertime wrote: »

wtf?

rebel, with respect, your worrying so much about servicing, depreciation, running costs, price etc etc that i'd suggest you buy some other car in a lower price bracket. I'm not casting this as areflection on you but your just scraping into the low end of the 'luxury' car market with your choices, and these cars are not cheap to run, are not cheap to service, get hit by large depreciation and are generally not as economical as the 'nmormal' cars out there.

You seem to be buying one for the wrong reasons imo? Its a luxury car, enjoy it, if your worring about everything around it your better off in a Bora imo.

€500 to service over 5 years, 50+ MPG, prices on s/h Audi/BMW did I read something wrong here? And as for Bora, one of the worse cars I've ever had for reliability is aforementioned Passat.......TBH, I don't know why you're posting on this. You made a comment about the 6 cylinders, which i asked you to clarify and you didn't. Then I don't like driving petrols, and you start doubting that I know what i want. I do motorway cruising. I want a car, reasonable price, with a good spec, reasonable running costs. Maybe I should do what a lot of the country seems to have done and gone over my head on what I can't afford? Maybe I should just stick my head up my arse and ask the dealer to pick one for me.

Bandara · 20-10-2008 11:46am

whiterebel wrote: »

€500 to service over 5 years, 50+ MPG, prices on s/h Audi/BMW did I read something wrong here? And as for Bora, one of the worse cars I've ever had for reliability is aforementioned Passat.......TBH, I don't know why you're posting on this. You made a comment about the 6 cylinders, which i asked you to clarify and you didn't. Then I don't like driving petrols, and you start doubting that I know what i want. I do motorway cruising. I want a car, reasonable price, with a good spec, reasonable running costs. Maybe I should do what a lot of the country seems to have done and gone over my head on what I can't afford? Maybe I should just stick my head up my arse and ask the dealer to pick one for me.

[/QUOTE]Seems to be some pretty well opinionated people here for cars so I'd like to hear opinions with these[/QUOTE]

so you actually don't want opinions then? What you really want is to tell eveyone why their suggestions / opinions are wrong?

As for the different between a 4 cyl BMW and a 6 Cyl BMW, well that should be the first thing you looked into when you were selecting a model to buy imo, the massive difference is, and always has been the biggest reason why everyone goes for the larger engine. So I'd suggest you definitely look into that as honestly, although its dearer for the 6 cyl its really a far far superior engine.

However I don't even think the 320d has the 6 cyl in it, I think in the new models it doesn;t start until the 325d, which obviously takes up above where you want to be and is a fair bit pricer.

Anyways, good luck with what you pick. Hope it goes well for you.

audismelly · 20-10-2008 11:50am

whiterebel wrote: »

Seems to be some pretty well opinionated people here for cars so I'd like to hear opinions with these. Looking to buy in January, and we've decided to go for dream car. Down to 4.....I don't drive quickly, my 1.9TDi 90BHP Passat has done me ok for 6 years.

All have roughly same spec....Climate, Cruise, alloys, trip CD etc, etc.

BMW 318D Possibly "Edition" model, Leather included. More expensive than the rest, BUT €500 for its servicing over 5 years!!!!! Wife loves BMW> Cheap road tax, great MPG €42k ish.
09 version is out, but Edition is different from 08 and 09 versions. Kearys in Cork have 60 Editions available.

Audi A4 120BHP SE Was never a fan really when I drove a 96 one, too high, too narrow - But the new one is gorgeous looking from the outside, and looks nice inside from brochure too. €38.5K ish

Saab 9-3 Linear Sport 1.9 TDi 120BHP Always liked Saab, but wondered about reliability. So much cheaper than Beemer as to make resale value a non-issue? Has Leather included for the price. Road tax 290. €37K ish

Lexus 220D Actually drove an 08 one last week. Beautiful car. hard to believe you can get a Lexus for 40K. Heavier on Road Tax at €430, but fantastic car to drive.

from your posts i think you have your mind made up.the new a4 is class in every manner. so long as space in the back isnt an issue and you said already you dont want an a6 so il assume its not.

Anan1 · 20-10-2008 11:50am

OP - have you driven any of the cars apart from the Lexus? If not, do that ASAP - the decision may well then be obvious.

Zube · 20-10-2008 11:52am

whiterebel wrote: »

You made a comment about the 6 cylinders, which i asked you to clarify and you didn't.

I think it was pretty clear: Hammertime thinks that if you are buying a premium car like a BMW, you should buy a real one, not the weediest 4 cylinder diesel. If you're all about service costs, mpg and low tax, why are you buying a premium car? Why not buy a Mondeo and pocket 5K?

Car-dealer · 20-10-2008 11:52am

.... this forum is so funny at times, "apples and pears my friends...apples and pears"

Lumen · 20-10-2008 11:56am

whiterebel wrote: »

Jesus, and I thought I had issues....

Have driven diesels for 13 or 14 years, don't like petrols to drive, and do the mileage to justify it. Fuel economy yes, 2/3 year warranty, I presume there will be another shiny new car on the estate quite quickly, so no to that one.
4k diffference between on 08 Lexus s/h and brand new? Might as well go new in my opinion. Other than that, I did ask for opinions on the cars quoted, rather than a psychological assessment.

Had you not mentioned "dream car" I wouldn't have questioned your dreams.

Anyway, your choices are conflicted. You want fuel economy but are happy to spunk €15k-€20k in the first 3 years on depreciation.

You have €40-45k to spend and appear to want a nice, comfy executive saloon.

For under €35k all in, you could import from the UK a fully loaded 2006 525d or 530d SE, which would be better equipped, nicer to drive, and depreciate less than a new 4-cylinder, and spend the savings on a little more fuel, tax and insurance (and AFAIK imports come under CO2 taxation rather than engine size, regardless of age). In 3 years time you would have enough cash to replace it with something else nice. If you don't like that car, there are loads of other used choices (Audi A6 for instance, which is about the same size as the new A4).

I just don't understand the psychology of people who buy new small-capacity diesel saloons privately, when the same (or better) is available used. I have bought a few new cars, but in every case it was a new model which offered something substantially different, not available in the used market. Your choices are just incredibly ordinary.

Still, free free to get upset. If you want opinions which will pander to your sensitivities, ask your mother, not random strangers on the internet.

whiterebel · 20-10-2008 12:05pm

Zube wrote: »

I think it was pretty clear: Hammertime thinks that if you are buying a premium car like a BMW, you should buy a real one, not the weediest 4 cylinder diesel. If you're all about service costs, mpg and low tax, why are you buying a premium car? Why not buy a Mondeo and pocket 5K?

A "Real" BMW? What is this place, full of people who wear courdoroy jackets, and have curly hair, and are called Jeremy? Try reading the posts rather than jumping in the with the macho BS. 120BHP is perfectly fine for me.Whether it does 250Km/h or 230 doesn't bother me, I'll be doing 120 max anyway*

I'm still waiting for an answer from Hammertime about the difference between the 4 and 6 cyls, pertinent to what I want it for, not some soundbytes heard it top gear. I had an old straight 6 BMW 320i. Did it make any difference to me? no. I liked our old "weedy" 318Tds, great MPG, cheap as chips to run, held its re-sale, but I suppose I must be mentally deficient for that opinion.

*Where permissible, obviously

maidhc · 20-10-2008 12:05pm

Lumen wrote: »

I just don't understand the psychology of people who buy new small-capacity diesel saloons privately, when the same (or better) is available used. I have bought a few new cars, but in every case it was a new model which offered something substantially different, not available in the used market. Your choices are just incredibly ordinary.

Maybe he just wants a "normal" car, and wants to buy a new one. People have their reasons, and they are no more or less valid than anyone else. He will probably keep the car a long time, and that is probably one of the few occasions when buying new can be justified.

Personally I'd try and stretch to a 320d, but i'd take a BMW over the others.

The guy asked for opinions on a few cars. Calling 4cyl BMW engines "crap" because they are not as smooth as a straight 6 shows a lack of intelligence to be fair.

whiterebel · 20-10-2008 12:07pm

Lumen wrote: »

Had you not mentioned "dream car" I wouldn't have questioned your dreams.

Still, free free to get upset. If you want opinions which will pander to your sensitivities, ask your mother, not random strangers on the internet.

Tell you what, you learn to answer specific quesions posted, and I'll stop reading your inane drivel. Deal?

Biro · 20-10-2008 12:09pm

Hammertime wrote: »

so you actually don't want opinions then? What you really want is to tell eveyone why their suggestions / opinions are wrong?

As for the different between a 4 cyl BMW and a 6 Cyl BMW, well that should be the first thing you looked into when you were selecting a model to buy imo, the massive difference is, and always has been the biggest reason why everyone goes for the larger engine. So I'd suggest you definitely look into that as honestly, although its dearer for the 6 cyl its really a far far superior engine.

However I don't even think the 320d has the 6 cyl in it, I think in the new models it doesn;t start until the 325d, which obviously takes up above where you want to be and is a fair bit pricer.

Anyways, good luck with what you pick. Hope it goes well for you.

You don't sound like you know what you're talking about to be honest.

Biro · 20-10-2008 12:10pm

whiterebel wrote: »

one of the worse cars I've ever had for reliability is aforementioned Passat........

Audi's suffer just as much as VW for reliability issues.

whiterebel · 20-10-2008 12:11pm

maidhc wrote: »

Maybe he just wants a "normal" car, and wants to buy a new one. People have their reasons, and they are no more or less valid than anyone else. He will probably keep the car a long time, and that is probably one of the few occasions when buying new can be justified.

Personally I'd try and stretch to a 320d, but i'd take a BMW over the others.

The guy asked for opinions on a few cars. Calling 4cyl BMW engines "crap" because they are not as smooth as a straight 6 shows a lack of intelligence to be fair.

Thank you, takes a Corkonian to speak sense. Thanks to everyone else who posted opinions on the cars shortlisted, and for suggestions such as the Alfa. Just a long time looking at the Italians cars going wrong, breaking owner hearts etc. I couldn't do that to myself. Same reason I couldn't hand over 30K for a Citroen C5.......

copacetic · 20-10-2008 12:14pm

whiterebel wrote: »

BMW 318D Possibly "Edition" model, Leather included. More expensive than the rest, BUT €500 for its servicing over 5 years!!!!! Wife loves BMW> Cheap road tax, great MPG €42k ish.
09 version is out, but Edition is different from 08 and 09 versions. Kearys in Cork have 60 Editions available.

don't get the old model, the edition was just a run out spec to try and sell out of the old model, the new LCI (facelift) looks much better has a lot od added features (eg wider track) and will hold it's value way better. If you want the current edition buy and 08 with low mileage.

whiterebel wrote: »

Audi A4 120BHP SE Was never a fan really when I drove a 96 one, too high, too narrow - But the new one is gorgeous looking from the outside, and looks nice inside from brochure too. €38.5K ish

the 120 is underpowered, personally the offset pedals were a show stopper for me. The already look quite common on the road imo, the centre console is shocking looking without Nav.

whiterebel wrote: »

Saab 9-3 Linear Sport 1.9 TDi 120BHP Always liked Saab, but wondered about reliability. So much cheaper than Beemer as to make resale value a non-issue? Has Leather included for the price. Road tax 290. €37K ish
.

no experience of thse myself.

whiterebel wrote: »

Lexus 220D Actually drove an 08 one last week. Beautiful car. hard to believe you can get a Lexus for 40K. Heavier on Road Tax at €430, but fantastic car to drive.

Lovely spec for the money, doesn't drive as well as A4 or BMW. Can't have folding rear seats which could be a big problem.

On all of the above, don't buy a new one, buy an 08 with low mileage, fantastic offers out there. You should be able to pick one up for 30kish.
Depreciation on a new model is stunning at the moment.

Or stick to your budget and go a year older for a nicer engine/spec or go up the range in model.

Lumen · 20-10-2008 12:15pm

maidhc wrote: »

Calling 4cyl BMW engines "crap" because they are not as smooth as a straight 6 shows a lack of intelligence to be fair.

Why?

I've driven a range of BMW engines in the last few years, including 4 and 6-cylinder petrols and diesels.

The car with the worst engine by a long way (by which I mean the engine which made me want to get out of the car rather than drive) was in the 118d. In traffic it sounded like a bus, even when fully warmed up. On the move, it was peaky and still not particularly refined. This is not what I expect from a "premium" car.

By comparison, the 6 cylinder BMW engines (including the very leggy 1994 525tds I owned for several years) were smooth and sweet.

I understand why people buy 4 cylinder diesels - on paper they look great, and are a little more economical. Until this year, they were also very much cheaper to tax. But now tax is CO2-based, and when you have access to creamy 6 cylinder loveliness further up the range, I just don't know why you'd choose a four banger.

Zube · 20-10-2008 12:16pm

whiterebel wrote: »

120BHP is perfectly fine for me.Whether it does 250Km/h or 230 doesn't bother me, I'll be doing 120 max anyway*

So why do you think you need to pay for a BMW or Saab? Buy a Kia Magentis, and pocket €15K!

copacetic · 20-10-2008 12:19pm

on the 4 versus 6 cyclinder BMWs, the 320d is a great engine and is 4 cyliner. Outside of internet forums 6 cyclinder engines aren't that popular. for a start the depreciation on them is massive as no-one wants them on second hand market.

Imo having driven both the 320d is as good an engine in city driving as the 325i. The 325i 'sounds' better but you can't hear it much from inside the car.

Opinions wanted for a tough choice...

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