puppy help required

Top Dog

ISDW wrote: »

I'm sorry for going off topic, but its been discussed on here and elsewhere, that a reason you can report an owner to the ISPCA or the dog warden is if the dog has no access to water. So I don't understand how it is okay to deprive a dog of water overnight.

If your dog is in a crate, then you can get bowls that clip onto the side of the crate so that it won't spill.

I think its very relevant in this case that the dog has diarrhoea, so is probably dehydrated, so surely taking water away is definitely not the best thing to do.

I don't know if this is aimed at me, but just in case I thought I'd best reply.

I was not trying to suggest that the OP restrict their dogs access to water, I was merely speaking from my own expierence in relation to our 2 dogs. I'm no expert on the subject of dogs suffering with dehydration and diarrhoea so I don't think its my place to comment at all on it.

Yes, a person can be reported for denying their animal from water, but I hardly think that a 5 hour period where they're safe asleep would fall under the umbrella of neglect. Not really a comparible situation with someone who doesn't give their animal water, or even clean water. On the few occasions where one of our dogs was suffering with diarrhoea, we left the crate open and did leave access to water. Both our dogs are happy and healthy and judging by their behaviours they're not suffering in any shape or form from being crated away from water for a few hours.

Perhaps this isn't the ideal situation, but as Helena has posted above, opinion is split on the whole thing. I'd still stand by what I said about an owner in-tune with their animal being the best judge of what works for them.

looserock

Top Dog wrote: »

I personally think that if people are in-tune enough with their animals then they can make the best judgement on the situation.

I would agree with this.

Taking away the water at night would speed up house training and wouldn't be any harm, I personally just prefer to leave the water out.

ISDW

I'm sorry, but I just think there are a lot of things you can do to 'speed up' training, electric shock collars for barking etc, but it doesn't make them right for the animals. Yes, it is a pain getting up during the night to let a puppy out, but IMO its part of owning a puppy.

It wasn't aimed at you Topdog, it was just a general comment on not providing drinking water for a dog, and most people sleep for longer than 5 hours a night:D, I was thinking of a dog being without water for 8 hours or more.

Top Dog

ISDW wrote: »

It wasn't aimed at you Topdog, it was just a general comment on not providing drinking water for a dog, and most people sleep for longer than 5 hours a night:D, I was thinking of a dog being without water for 8 hours or more.

Ah thats ok. I was just posting a response in case anyone else picked me up wrong.;)

And I agree that most people sleep longer than 5 hours, but I work shift so the overlap between my sleep and my wife's sleep is never any more than 5 hours.:)

Beth

The whole water/no water thing at night - I think it is definitely down to the individual dog and owners, as well as their diet. Our two are fed raw, and during the day while they have access to fresh water, they dont drink that much compared to what they drank on dried food - because a lot of their water intake is provided in what they eat anyway, so they don't drink as much.

Most people do sleep a lot longer than what TopDog mentioned alright - but it works for us - there's shiftwork patterns in our house so its rare enough the dogs are in their crates with the doors closed because there is usually a human around

Edit : He was typing while I was typing

Noopti

ISDW wrote: »

I'm sorry, but I just think there are a lot of things you can do to 'speed up' training, electric shock collars for barking etc, but it doesn't make them right for the animals. Yes, it is a pain getting up during the night to let a puppy out, but IMO its part of owning a puppy.

It wasn't aimed at you Topdog, it was just a general comment on not providing drinking water for a dog, and most people sleep for longer than 5 hours a night:D, I was thinking of a dog being without water for 8 hours or more.

Give me a break, talk about going OTT. Comparing restricting access to water overnight to electric shock collars? Reporting people for restricting access to water during housebreaking?

Restricting access to water overnight is neither cruel or against the law. We restricted access to our pup overnight and we still had to get up a couple of times during the night with her, so don't being trying to say that people do it so that they can have uninterrupted sleep.
A house trained animal is better for the owners and the animal, restricting water during the night DOES speed up this process and is NOT cruel. Like I said, our dog sleeps in our room at night and their is no water at all, and she is the happiest, most well trained dog I know. But you would suggest that I'm being cruel?

If someone is sleeping for 10/12 hours and not bothering to attend to their dogs, then that is a completely different matter to not providing 24/7 access to water, so please don't compare the two. Sometimes during the night our dog will get up and get restless, so I bring her downstairs to the kitchen and sometimes she might have a drink of water while there.

It is all about being aware of your dogs habits and schedule. It has nothing to do with cruelty, laziness or not knowing what is right for the animals. Quite the opposite.


Edit:

I think its very relevant in this case that the dog has diarrhoea, so is probably dehydrated, so surely taking water away is definitely not the best thing to do.

No one suggested denying water to a sick animal, please re-read the posts. The suggestion was for general housebreaking, not when an animal is ill.

ISDW

Noopti wrote: »

There is no reason for the dogs to have 24/7 access to water. It is recommended by many books to restrict access to water at night to aid in toilet training. If you want to toilet train the dog in the shortest time possible, you will need to control when they eat and drink.

Once the toilet training is finished (or very nearly there) you can allow 24/7 water access.

But you've said that you don't allow your dog access to water during the night.

I wasn't going OTT, just because not letting the dog have water at night makes the house training process quicker, does not mean it is necessarily better for the dog. I still don't understand your point, so you don't allow the puppy water during the night, but you still have to get up and take it outside, so how does denying it water help?

Noopti

ISDW wrote: »

But you've said that you don't allow your dog access to water during the night.

I wasn't going OTT, just because not letting the dog have water at night makes the house training process quicker, does not mean it is necessarily better for the dog. I still don't understand your point, so you don't allow the puppy water during the night, but you still have to get up and take it outside, so how does denying it water help?

Quite simple, it helps because instead of going out every hour as the dog drinks (if it does), you only have to go out 2/3 times. Thus, it aids the training as you can schedule to get up at specific times through the night and re-enforce the behavior of going out to go to the toilet.

Is it better for the dog to have unlimited access to water and thus more likely chance of it soiling it's crate? A dog, like a human does not need to have 24/7 access to water during the night. During the night, dogs...like us, sleep. The only reason I see for a puppy to be given 24/7 access to water during the night is if the environment dictates it, that is, if you live in a hot country where access to water all the time is necessary for the health of the dog. Under normal circumstances the puppy will have gotten it's required daily intake of water during the day, when it has got water access and the owner can observe for signs of needing to go out.

You did go OTT by comparing what is an accepted method for housetraining to using electric shock collars - a completely unacceptable method. An electric shock collar physically hurts the dog, not allowing access to water during the night does nothing of the sort.

Edit: Oh and yes I did say that 24/7 access is fine once training is finished, I never said I do it. My dog is fine without access to water during the night, as she can drink as much as she wants during the day. I was saying that if the owner has trained the dog, then there is no need to take the water away at night as the dog is trained to go out (or go to paper, whatever is applicable).

ISDW

Noopti wrote: »

You did go OTT by comparing what is an accepted method for housetraining to using electric shock collars - a completely unacceptable method. An electric shock collar physically hurts the dog, not allowing access to water during the night does nothing of the sort.

In your view it is acceptable, in my view it is not, just as, to a lot of people, the electric shock collars are acceptable. I think that it is cruel, which is why it is one of the reasons that you can be prosecuted for cruelty, and as far as I'm aware, you won't be prosecuted for using an electric shock collar. Warped legal logic definitely, but in my view, not allowing your dog access to water is a big no no. And I don't agree with the arguement that owners know their own dogs needs better than anyone else, that is an excuse that could be used to justify anything.

You and I are never to agree on this issue, thats fine, the world would be a very sad place if everybody agreed with everybody else. The OP will have to weigh up the different views and decide for themselves.

Noopti

True. I suggest the OP get a couple of books and the subject and see what they suggest.

Whispered

teachertrixibel wrote: »

hi there,

I got 2 puppies over the weekend and have a couple of questions....
(1) I'm feeding them dog biscuits soaked in water, but within 5-10 mins they both have diarrhoea

Noopti wrote: »

Pups will get diarrhea from a number of things including moving to a new home, changes in diets and worms. It is probably a combination of all of the above. You will need to bring them to your own vet, if not already done so, ...........They should go to bed the same time you do, and it should be consistent to aid toilet training. Take away their water an hour and half before this, and give them their dinner in the evening.

Noopti wrote: »

No one suggested denying water to a sick animal, please re-read the posts. The suggestion was for general housebreaking, not when an animal is ill.

Again, access should never be restricted if an animal is suffering with diarrhea. I know this was not your point, but because they are in the same post, just need to clear that up for the OP. You were not suggesting taking water from these pups until they have seen a vet or until they are no longer suffering with diarrhea.

sarah101

I have to completely agree with ISDW, a dog should access to fresh clean drinking water 24/7. No excuses. Our GSD is also crated at night but has her water bowl in the crate with her. She has been well trained and never messes inside or in her crate.