Government U-Turn on Medical Card 95% to keep them

Villain

Ok I know there is a shed load of threads relating in some way to this topic but since there has been so many changes I thought a new one might be needed, if not mods, please merge.

Ok so the Government have a press conference at 9:45am but RTE are reporting that 95% of over 70's will keep their medical card and they won't mean's test it but will require people to declare if they are above the new thresholds, as it wouldn't make financial sense to means test if only 5% will be saved as the cost of administration for that would surely outway the savings.

The question is will this be enough to calm the elderly?

jhegarty

The first question I have is , if there is 100m to be saved from the doctors why the hell wasn't it done days, months or years ago ?

luckat

If 95%, wny not 100%? This is nonsense.

mike65

and the volte face is complete (well 95% of it).

"Economies in drug useage" ie switch to more generics, the failure to use same has been a gravy train scandal for years.

Mike

luckat

Ohhh, this hasn't gone away yet, believe me.

Economies in drugs use - a friend of mine is on holidays in France. His anti-inflammatories cost him €70 on prescription in Ireland. He ran out and bought a *slightly* weaker version of the same thing over the counter (no prescription) in France, and it cost him - €7 - a tenth of the price!

Why are Irish people, and the Irish Government, paying such prices? Is this another palsy walsy?

ateam

The Green Party are I think trying to claim that they are responsible for this change. They were standing up last week applauding the budget.

Stephen

I'm sure the pharma industry has nice big brown envelopes that kept the health service using those nice expensive brand-name drugs instead of generics for years.

mike65

Any listening to RTE? Deary me, basicly if you have a gross income of more than 700 euro and you want to keep your card then just lie.

Mike

billy the squid

The budget still has a fair number of landmines in it still, the 1 percent levy, the increase in class sizes, and this €10 travel tax which discriminates against Cork Shannon and Knock airports.

All the while the vintners get off without excise on beer, the bush drinkers don't have to pay extra for their cider, and the private jet owners get off without paying the €10 tax per seat on their aircrafts.

Villain

Well it does sound like a joke, but it wouldn't make sense to means test it, the cost of administrating it would be crazy.

This is basically the Government's way of saying it's not backing down by not giving it unilaterally but yet giving it to everyone.

gurramok

Now they've gone to the other extreme taking in people who can well afford to pay their own medical care.
Every worker on less than €36kpa now has a case for a medical card!

is_that_so

GUBU of the highest order but really no surprise at all. It does not bode well for the rest of the budget, never mind the rest of the term.

Providing the "grumpy old men and women" and their families can be made to "go away", they then have to face down the teachers, which will prove just as tough to get round and the unions on the income levy. That is probably the easiest one to row back on. All told it is starting to look as if the Dept of Finance mandarins rode roughshod over the hapless Minister and just gave him numbers to cut.

The net effect of this is the disproportionate power the Greens now wield. We're almost back into that PD tail-wagging trick.
Judging from how they have approached it all to date, in that schizophrenic ways of theirs, FF will need to build half a dozen nuclear power stations for them to let go.

If they do go I'd imagine FF will allow them to be blamed for the collapse of Govt but can't see it happening for a while yet. I reckon this Govt will last into the New Year. After that who knows where we'll be. PP currently has an election in 2009 at 8/1.

mike65

Worth bearing in mind the near certainty of a mini budget in the Spring.

This cock-up may result in a stern half-time team talk but its a question of who will be throwing tea-cups - Biffo or his ministers. Government can make bad decisions are survive only if everyone stays onside, this lot have the whiff of panic rising from every pore.

Still the Greens are bought and paid for as are the rest of the independents I think.

Primary education next.

Mike

ateam

If there is a mini budget next spring, I'd expect the higher rate of income tax to increase.

CtrlSource

Now if the Opposition can't make a good go of this, there's something wrong with them!

So Brian announces a tough budget, to set the country on the right track to weather the global economic storms. And a week later the other Brian does a massive u-turn on an unpopular cost-saving measure. And there's probably going to be another u-turn on the income 'levy' before the day is out.

Did someone say 'credibility'?

Hellrazer

CtrlSource wrote: »

a week later the other Brian does a massive u-turn on an unpopular cost-saving measure. And there's probably going to be another u-turn on the income 'levy' before the day is out.

And another U-turn on the education cuts,maybe the mortgage relief cuts and the 200 euro car parking levy.

DublinWriter

mike65 wrote: »

"Economies in drug useage" ie switch to more generics, the failure to use same has been a gravy train scandal for years.
Mike

Exactly Mike. I heard Noonan this morning saying they could save €140m by switching to generics.

Other passengers of the medical gravy train include members of the IMO and IPU.

DublinWriter

Something about the numbers on this isn't right.

One of the estimates I heard was that there are around 140,000 medical card holders who are over 70.

Soooo....that means they are counting on saving €100m by removing 7,000 OAPs from this scheme?!?

Firstly, I think they've picked the figure of 95% out of the air. I think a greater number of OAPs will be affected.

20goto10

I think people should be means tested to see if they voted for FF over the past 10 years. If so you should have to pay an extra 8% income tax for being a gob ****e. You also lose the right to complain on anything related to politics or the economy.

Can I ask those who are outraged, why does being old make you special? People who live a rock and roll lifestyle and rely on the state in their old age get special treatment over those who work hard and save for their retirement? Thats what I'm outraged about.

bk

DublinWriter wrote: »

Something about the numbers on this isn't right.

One of the estimates I heard was that there are around 140,000 medical card holders who are over 70.

Soooo....that means they are counting on saving €100m by removing 7,000 OAPs from this scheme?!?

Firstly, I think they've picked the figure of 95% out of the air. I think a greater number of OAPs will be affected.

No, now it looks like that they are putting the GP's under pressure to reduce the contract that they got, that gave them 4 times the money for seeing patients on the medical card over 70.

If the government can force the GP's to charge the same as under 70 medical card holders or perhaps just 2 times the norm, then the government can probably make the same €100 million saving there. And rightfully so, the GP's were just hoping on the gravy train.

bk

20goto10 wrote: »

Can I ask those who are outraged, why does being old make you special? People who live a rock and roll lifestyle and rely on the state in their old age get special treatment over those who work hard and save for their retirement? Thats what I'm outraged about.

Because the elderly vote far more then the young and there tends to be a higher proportion of FF supporters amongst the elderly. So they get special attention.

Ludo

20goto10 wrote: »

Can I ask those who are outraged, why does being old make you special? People who live a rock and roll lifestyle and rely on the state in their old age get special treatment over those who work hard and save for their retirement? Thats what I'm outraged about.

Rock and roll lifestyle???? What are you talking about? The outrage is someone who worked very hard all his life on a very small salary with huge taxes while raising a family, becoming old and having to survive on a state pension and then being told (in a very stupid and unclear way) that because he gets a 15 euro pension on top of the state salary that he is no longer entitled to a medical card.
The outrage is not about the people who are loaded getting shafted, it is about the rediculously low bar they announced originally for the means test which cut out practically everyone.

Phototoxin

Because the elderly vote far more then the young and there tends to be a higher proportion of FF supporters amongst the elderly. So they get special attention.

QFT.

Next election no one should vote fianna fail, but of course we have few floating voters... most people are 'raised' in a certain mindset about parties. In addition all the young people should band togetehr and just vote for independants or something to fcuk up the government

Alternatively we look at history, arm ourselves and kick the feckers out of the dail!

is_that_so

20goto10 wrote: »

I think people should be means tested to see if they voted for FF over the past 10 years. If so you should have to pay an extra 8% income tax for being a gob ****e. You also lose the right to complain on anything related to politics or the economy.

Can I ask those who are outraged, why does being old make you special? People who live a rock and roll lifestyle and rely on the state in their old age get special treatment over those who work hard and save for their retirement? Thats what I'm outraged about.

The whole thing has been handled very badly. As a collective group they were targeted, which is where all of this started. As collective group they are one of the most vulnerable. That is not to say there are not some within that group who can comfortably take care of themselves.

Had the Govt had the wit to firstly think it out and then explain it we'd have no need for discussion. In fact had they not gone for the vote buying proposal in the first place we'd be bitching about education cuts.

Even in your "hardworking, hard saving group" many of those could have ended up subject to means testing under the original proposals. Furthermore some of those who are over 70 would have cancelled their VHI on the basis of a free card and now would find it very difficult to get insurance cover. And all for a rumoured €100 million.

Macha

Joe Behan has just ruled out rejoining FF even after the u-turn but maybe I'll wait a few more weeks to see what he does when the cameras have been turned to another story.

The_Minister

Phototoxin wrote: »

Next election no one should vote fianna fail, but of course we have few floating voters...

You do realise that the doctor who negotiated the incredibly high medical card payments is the Fine Gael spokesman for Health?

Boggle

You do realise that the doctor who negotiated the incredibly high medical card payments is the Fine Gael spokesman for Health?

I take it that he was acting on behalf of the GP's so then he did an exceedingly good job. I take it you were getting at how much better FG are than FF/PD at negotiating??:D

nesf

luckat wrote: »

Economies in drugs use - a friend of mine is on holidays in France. His anti-inflammatories cost him €70 on prescription in Ireland. He ran out and bought a *slightly* weaker version of the same thing over the counter (no prescription) in France, and it cost him - €7 - a tenth of the price!

Why are Irish people, and the Irish Government, paying such prices? Is this another palsy walsy?

Eh, shouldn't he be blaming his doctor not the Government for prescribing him brand name drugs? I know with my GP she always inquires about whether my DPS is already maxed for the month or not (in my case it is because of a long term illness that doesn't get covered by the long term illness scheme for free drugs ). If I didn't have my DPS maxed she'd try her best to give me a generic alternative if possible, since I've my DPS maxed already she just prescribes the best drug and doesn't worry about whether it's brand name or not.

John_C

nesf wrote: »

If I didn't have my DPS maxed she'd try her best to give me a generic alternative if possible, since I've my DPS maxed already she just prescribes the best drug and doesn't worry about whether it's brand name or not.

I have no medical training so feel free to tell me if I'm just wrong but my understanding was that generic drugs were identical to the other ones. Is this not the case?

Ponster

luckat wrote: »

Ohhh, this hasn't gone away yet, believe me.

Economies in drugs use - a friend of mine is on holidays in France. His anti-inflammatories cost him €70 on prescription in Ireland. He ran out and bought a *slightly* weaker version of the same thing over the counter (no prescription) in France, and it cost him - €7 - a tenth of the price!

Why are Irish people, and the Irish Government, paying such prices? Is this another palsy walsy?

Maybe because in France I lose 20% of my wages in PRSI/health tax before I pay 20% in taxes of what's left of my salary.

The_Minister

Boggle wrote: »

I take it that he was acting on behalf of the GP's so then he did an exceedingly good job. I take it you were getting at how much better FG are than FF/PD at negotiating??:D

That was Michael Martin's fault. He announced the scheme before negotiating it, which meant that the IMO had him over a barrell (best saying ever:D). A cock-eyed rooster could have gotten a great deal.

EDIT: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fgs-reilly-defends-imo-fee-deal-on-medical-cards-1502867.html
He spoke on this already.

It just annoys me that the man who fought for the over-priced medical card, and who did his best to scupper the renegotiation of the consultants contract (progress was only made after the election when he had quit) is considered by some to have the best interests of the health service at heart.