Budget Cuts

Tableman

With the budget cuts in farming, Is there now any incentive for a young person to take over a farm???

massey woman

The best incentive is to take it over and sell it asap and head for greener pastures
Farm inputs were never as dear and profits never so low despite high prices for cattle
Impossible for any small farmer(less than 100 acres)to influence costs
Fuel,energy,meal,nsurance,fertilizer,labour,hire,plant and machinery,haulage,veterinary fees,animal medicines you name it have gone through the roof
You may think you are making money but look at your real costs
Compare the prices of any of the above with price paid 5 years ago,frightening,then look at the price you were getting for your stock
Compare that price to the price of beef in 1978, 30 years ago !!
We are the gobshi** primary producers providing quality raw materials for fat cat processors and middlemen
Why would young people entertain this worthless drudgery day to day week to week unpredictability depending on the luck of the draw and how the supply and demand curve was oscilating
No value on farmers by Govt and the consumer doesnt give a damm really where the food comes from once it is cheap and affordable.With the demise of the Celtic Tiger and increasing unemployment Aldi and Lidl will become the M&S as M&S becomes Harrods or BT's

irish_bob

massey woman wrote: »

The best incentive is to take it over and sell it asap and head for greener pastures
Farm inputs were never as dear and profits never so low despite high prices for cattle
Impossible for any small farmer(less than 100 acres)to influence costs
Fuel,energy,meal,nsurance,fertilizer,labour,hire,plant and machinery,haulage,veterinary fees,animal medicines you name it have gone through the roof
You may think you are making money but look at your real costs
Compare the prices of any of the above with price paid 5 years ago,frightening,then look at the price you were getting for your stock
Compare that price to the price of beef in 1978, 30 years ago !!
We are the gobshi** primary producers providing quality raw materials for fat cat processors and middlemen
Why would young people entertain this worthless drudgery day to day week to week unpredictability depending on the luck of the draw and how the supply and demand curve was oscilating
No value on farmers by Govt and the consumer doesnt give a damm really where the food comes from once it is cheap and affordable.With the demise of the Celtic Tiger and increasing unemployment Aldi and Lidl will become the M&S as M&S becomes Harrods or BT's

selling now would mean taking a drop of around 5k an acre as thats how much land has dropped in value on average this year , farming may be one of the better bets in the next few years what with people loosing thier jobs left , right and centre in other industrys , besides only about litterally one in a million farmers sell up and move in this country , selling the home farm in ireland is akin to selling your soul

massey woman

The next generation will have little or no attachement so do it yourself blow it out while you have your health to enjoy the proceeds
Still making good money per acre
Not back that much nationally
Sell it and enjoy the spoils and when you have it all spent Mary Harney and Co will provide you with free B&B
If you are prudent and save as much as possible your savings will go to the state should you or your partner need to avail of hospital / nursing care so why bother

ravima

massey woman is right. some people have an unnatural link to the land. it was my grandfathers, my fathers and now mine. I must pass it on too. Bulls**t. The past generations slaved and made nothing from it. If you want to make something, you must sweat it for all it will give. Sell chosen sites before selling the entire and get the most you can. Then enjoy the money.

Sam Kade

The value of land has dropped over the last year as farmers that sold land to developers kept the price of agricultural land artifically high up to then. Even if you could sell a site now you won't be getting anywhere near the €150,000 per site that was paid up to last year.

Timmaay

Things are certainly looking wayyyy less rosey than they were last year. The budget could well be the final nail in the coffin for some young farmers, why would we bother investing money with the future so uncertain. I for one am fairly pissed off that the installation aid is gone, it was a very necessary helping hand for young farmers. Farming is a business, and most startup businesses have a good chance of getting a grant, and why should farming be any different.

I myself am still split between taking over my fathers dariy farm or just getting a job off the farm and be done with the whole hassle of farming. The future is so uncertain at the minute I think. The price of milk is dropping every month, costs have rocketed, and with all the whole downturn in the world, how long will payments last from the EU? If I'm to take over the farm I would need to invest a good few quid on a milking parlour and slurry storage. Of course the scrapping of the FIS and FWMS leave me with stupid capital costs for any of this.

Selling any of the land for sites isn't an runner for me either, it is on a green belt.

road_high

Everybody, could you please see the positives of farming i.e.;
-Own boss
-Flexibility
-Lifestyle
-No/little commuting

The grass is not much greener out there in the working world either in fairness. We have to drive forward, the world will always need food.

I know people here made good and valid points re the cost/price squeeze in agriculture but if you were to dwell on the negatives to such an extent you would never do anything. Cost of inputs will fall now with oil, grain and general demand falling.

And we do have a comparative advantage here with beef and dairy. Lets get out there and compete with the New Zealands of this world; we have a huge market on oir doorstep; they don't..

Sam Kade

mfitzy wrote: »

Everybody, could you please see the positives of farming i.e.;
-Own boss
-Flexibility
-Lifestyle
-No/little commuting

The grass is not much greener out there in the working world either in fairness. We have to drive forward, the world will always need food.

I know people here made good and valid points re the cost/price squeeze in agriculture but if you were to dwell on the negatives to such an extent you would never do anything. Cost of inputs will fall now with oil, grain and general demand falling.

And we do have a comparative advantage here with beef and dairy. Lets get out there and compete with the New Zealands of this world; we have a huge market on oir doorstep; they don't..

+1
Too many farmers dwell on all the negatives of farming and have done for years.

fastrac

With the grants and building frenzy in the past you might be able to put up a yard a lot cheaper next year.Forget the grandeur just do enough to comply with farm payment.

irish_bob

Timmaay wrote: »

Things are certainly looking wayyyy less rosey than they were last year. The budget could well be the final nail in the coffin for some young farmers, why would we bother investing money with the future so uncertain. I for one am fairly pissed off that the installation aid is gone, it was a very necessary helping hand for young farmers. Farming is a business, and most startup businesses have a good chance of getting a grant, and why should farming be any different.

I myself am still split between taking over my fathers dariy farm or just getting a job off the farm and be done with the whole hassle of farming. The future is so uncertain at the minute I think. The price of milk is dropping every month, costs have rocketed, and with all the whole downturn in the world, how long will payments last from the EU? If I'm to take over the farm I would need to invest a good few quid on a milking parlour and slurry storage. Of course the scrapping of the FIS and FWMS leave me with stupid capital costs for any of this.

Selling any of the land for sites isn't an runner for me either, it is on a green belt.

the FWM scheme wasnt scrapped , the deadline for entrants to that scheme was early 2007 with the deadline for completion december 31st 2008 , you are indeed right about the FIS scheme being scrapped , in fact it closed as quick as it opened , the problem with farming in ireland is thier are still far too many farmers

road_high

fastrac wrote: »

With the grants and building frenzy in the past you might be able to put up a yard a lot cheaper next year.Forget the grandeur just do enough to comply with farm payment.

Should be v good value around next year with the grant gone. And you won't have the bureacracy of going for a grant. Do a decent job that works and as you say complies with Cross Compliance.

road_high

irish_bob wrote: »

, the problem with farming in ireland is thier are still far too many farmers

Explain? You mean on an economies of scale aspect?

irish_bob

mfitzy wrote: »

Explain? You mean on an economies of scale aspect?

yes , in newzealand you can make a decent wage working on a farm all your life and it is not looked down upon , of course we will never see farms in ireland grow to the size of the average farm in nz , not because the land is too expensive , even you won the lottery in the morning , you couldnt put 500 acres together here as land is so fragmented

road_high

irish_bob wrote: »

yes , in newzealand you can make a decent wage working on a farm all your life and it is not looked down upon , of course we will never see farms in ireland grow to the size of the average farm in nz , not because the land is too expensive , even you won the lottery in the morning , you couldnt put 500 acres together here as land is so fragmented

It's an historical legacy, the tie to the land here. In NZ it's more of a hard nosed business with little sentiment I would imagine

massey woman

From the posts there are two types of farmers contributing to this thread
Full time and part time
I know its important to have a positive mental attitude,set goals,work hard and live a meaningful life but tell me how you can do that on less than 100 acres and rear a family and educate them
I know it cannot be done unless you have an off farm income
Not if you worked 20 hours a day 7 days a week
As I said earlier the primary producers in this industry whether beef,dairy,pigs or vegetables have no clout on the value chain and are totally dependant on supermarkets,beef processors,co ops,multi nationals
If however you have an off farm income or your partner has a job then you are cushioned somewhat
You look on your farm differently and most likely see it as a hobby or a means to keep a few pounds together and get away from the pressure of the office/job/business
Both types are vital in maintaining rural communities,but, take off the rose tinted glasses no full time farmer is getting paid for his labour never mind his asset ?

road_high

massey woman wrote: »

Both types are vital in maintaining rural communities,but, take off the rose tinted glasses no full time farmer is getting paid for his labour never mind his asset ?

They're lots of full time farmers making a good living, particularly in the dairy side of thing. I know because i'm related to them. They work hard and do it well. They are paying the high rate of tax. Some people are making a good living still out of farming. Perhaps not so in the beef side of things however

irish_bob

mfitzy wrote: »

It's an historical legacy, the tie to the land here. In NZ it's more of a hard nosed business with little sentiment I would imagine

a tie to the land wont put bread on the table , nor does it make you immune from cutbacks

road_high

irish_bob wrote: »

a tie to the land wont put bread on the table , nor does it make you immune from cutbacks

Absolutely but that still doesn't seem to deter people in many instances

reilig

massey woman wrote: »

The best incentive is to take it over and sell it asap and head for greener pastures
Farm inputs were never as dear and profits never so low despite high prices for cattle
Impossible for any small farmer(less than 100 acres)to influence costs
Fuel,energy,meal,nsurance,fertilizer,labour,hire,plant and machinery,haulage,veterinary fees,animal medicines you name it have gone through the roof
You may think you are making money but look at your real costs
Compare the prices of any of the above with price paid 5 years ago,frightening,then look at the price you were getting for your stock
Compare that price to the price of beef in 1978, 30 years ago !!
We are the gobshi** primary producers providing quality raw materials for fat cat processors and middlemen
Why would young people entertain this worthless drudgery day to day week to week unpredictability depending on the luck of the draw and how the supply and demand curve was oscilating
No value on farmers by Govt and the consumer doesnt give a damm really where the food comes from once it is cheap and affordable.With the demise of the Celtic Tiger and increasing unemployment Aldi and Lidl will become the M&S as M&S becomes Harrods or BT's

Well if any of ye are giving up and want out, I'm on the look out for 30 to 80 acres on a long term lease (6 years +) in Leitrim, Longford or Roscommon. I want the land to put it into REPS and keep sucklers. I don't need sheds - a loading pen would be nice though.

Personally I see a future in Farming for myself. It will involve keeping 200 acres. The scrapping of the Farm Retirement scheme kinda scuppers my plans for the next 10 years, but when the old man reaches 65 its our plan that I will take over. Meanwhile I have a reasonable good job, I'd hope to have a good hole in the mortgage in 10 years time so that maybe I will be able to buy another few acres if the right piece of land presents itself.

Meanwhile I'm looking to lease a bit of land to get my reps payment up when I go into REPS 4 early next year. I have already invested big in a slatted shed and drybed accommodation through the FWMS this year. I want to keep extra cattle and land to meet my loan.

I see a bright future in farming - people will always need food, its one thing people can't live without. There has always been a demand for it. Farming is the one thing in life that I'm happy doing, it involves hard work, but I rarely feel stressed while doing it.

I believe that us Irish Farmers need to get on with things. 2009 can be a good year. Oil prices, fertilizer prices and other input prices are falling. There is a scarcity of cattle in the country. Factory prices are rising. An extra ferry has been introduced to ship cattle out of the country. We have to remain positive.

So if you're thinking about giving up or just want a 6 year break and you're in my area, give me PM, I'll be glad to pay you good rent money.

road_high

reilig wrote: »

I believe that us Irish Farmers need to get on with things. 2009 can be a good year. Oil prices, fertilizer prices and other input prices are falling. There is a scarcity of cattle in the country. Factory prices are rising. An extra ferry has been introduced to ship cattle out of the country. We have to remain positive.

So if you're thinking about giving up or just want a 6 year break and you're in my area, give me PM, I'll be glad to pay you good rent money.

So true. There will always be people with positive attidudes like you to farming, it's great to see