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how many partners

13

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 42 Sumire


    My numbers 13 and I've been sexually active for 9 years. Boyfriend's 'magic number' is 7 or 8 (I can't remember!) He obviously isn't interested in the double standard


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    I would say what makes a person a slut is not the number of people they have had sex with but lack of respect for themselves and lack of discernment.
    Yeah, ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it...

    How a person conducts themselves is of more concern to me than how many people they have had sex with, which is their private business. I know very refined, dignified, sophisticated girls who are also promiscuous.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    Dudess wrote: »
    Granted, I think it's a bad thing when a girl is on a guy's (or a number of guys') speed dial for when he needs some fall-back/last resort sex at 4am... but I'd have nothing but sympathy for a girl with such a lack of self esteem. She needs support and encouragement, not verbal abuse.

    Oh come on Dudess, you are falling into the same trap here!!!! Why does she have esteem issues?

    Jesus, i have a ****ing HUGE sex drive, i like sex, i've slept with a lot of people ( is it bad that when asked this question i always reply with the number of people i have slept with in a relationship to avoid rubbish? ) but that does not mean my liking of sex is driven from esteem issues.

    It is perfectly possible for a member of either sex to have a lot of partners on a regular basis and not have esteem issues.

    Of hand i can think of 2 people i have slept with that could deal with my sex drive, not get tired, be able for what i am able for. I have female friends who are the same.

    It's a sex issue, not an esteem issue.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,027 ✭✭✭homerun_homer


    shellyboo wrote: »
    What about if a guy is on a girl's speed dial for some last-resort sex at 4am? Cos I've got some of those.

    Man would I love to be on someone's speed dial. My girl friends suck.:D


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Magic Pips wrote: »
    I'm turning 28, male and am on about 36... I've only been in fleeting relationships- longest being a year. Sexually active since i was 19.

    TBH i'd rather have a figure below 20, i think 30 odd is high for a fella, and any time the "whats your magic number" conversation comes along i cringe... but hey it was my doing! :o

    LOL reminds me of that conversation comin up in college. There were a few of us round a table havin a few beers havin that talk. Lads and girls. I felt for one of the lads after he answered, it went like this:

    2-1-3-2-6-7-5
    30.

    The girls looked at him and you could see the judgement in their faces, you could tell any ideas of them ever being with him went out the window right there and then!

    Silly tbh.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,879 ✭✭✭Kya1976


    Dudess wrote: »

    Oh of course... but sadly, merely enjoying sex and not being monogamous is enough to justify calling a girl a "slut" according to a lot of people.
    true but very wrong of course...
    Thaedydal wrote: »
    I would say what makes a person a slut is not the number of people they have had sex with but lack of respect for themselves and lack of discernment.
    absolutely I agree.
    I think men get a little intimidated when a woman is honest about their sexuality so I'd say that's part of the problem as well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Dragan wrote: »
    Oh come on Dudess, you are falling into the same trap here!!!! Why does she have esteem issues?

    Jesus, i have a ****ing HUGE sex drive, i like sex, i've slept with a lot of people ( is it bad that when asked this question i always reply with the number of people i have slept with in a relationship to avoid rubbish? ) but that does not mean my liking of sex is driven from esteem issues.

    It is perfectly possible for a member of either sex to have a lot of partners on a regular basis and not have esteem issues.

    Of hand i can think of 2 people i have slept with that could deal with my sex drive, not get tired, be able for what i am able for. I have female friends who are the same.

    It's a sex issue, not an esteem issue.
    Dragan, come on. I hardly think having a huge sex drive means self esteem issues...
    You've majorly misread me on the basis of that one post which didn't even necessarily refer to someone with a high sex drive (more like someone who possibly doesn't have a high sex drive but just ****s to make the guys like her...) It doesn't look like you've read my other posts on this thread at all...

    I since qualified that statement you're referring to:
    Dudess wrote: »
    Well ok, I'm talking more about rather naive girls who just get laughed at by the guys who use them for sex... yet are silly enough to think that if they keep giving up the goods he'll fall in love with them and respect them. I know it sounds crazy... but believe me I know such girls.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,883 ✭✭✭shellyboo


    Man would I love to be on someone's speed dial. My girl friends suck.:D


    You've never had a friend with benefits? You haven't lived :P

    Honestly, it can be fun, but I find it hard to deal with as a girl. I mean, I can have unattached sex a few times, but I always inevitably end up with feelings for the guy, so I tend to have a high turnover of f-buddies :P


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭Bendihorse


    I must be the only person here who can say just one... Im 25 and have been in a relationship since i was 17.

    Im starting to forsee the mistakes i might end up making in the long term as a result of this low number and have realised i need to improve on it dramatically before i even consider getting married!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Irishcrx


    21 year old guy and i've only slept with 3, i'm fairly happy with that I'm never out to impress or judge anyone about how many people they have decided is right for them.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    Dudess wrote: »
    Dragan, come on. I hardly think having a huge sex drive means self esteem issues...
    You've majorly misread me on the basis of that one post which didn't even necessarily refer to someone with a high sex drive (more like someone who possibly doesn't have a high sex drive but just ****s to make the guys like her...) It doesn't look like you've read my other posts on this thread at all...

    I since qualified that statement you're referring to:

    Sorry Dudess, i was just going off the first post, didn't see the caveat.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,027 ✭✭✭homerun_homer


    shellyboo wrote: »
    You've never had a friend with benefits? You haven't lived :P

    Honestly, it can be fun, but I find it hard to deal with as a girl. I mean, I can have unattached sex a few times, but I always inevitably end up with feelings for the guy, so I tend to have a high turnover of f-buddies :P

    I did once with a girl friend, good laugh but she's been in a long term relationship since then so never got the benefits that may have come from it. Apart from that...

    My total is lower than the average by the way, so I've got some making up to do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Meh, it's not a question of catching up, it's just a case of doing what makes you happy, provided the other party is happy too - not meeting a specific target.
    Dragan wrote: »
    Sorry Dudess, i was just going off the first post, didn't see the caveat.
    'S cool. And eh... I've an extremely high sex drive too so... high five!! :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Magic Pips


    LOl reminds me of that conversation comin up in college...The girls looked at him and you could see the judgement in their faces, you could tell any ideas of them ever being with him went out the window right there and then!

    Silly tbh.

    Its silly and warranted on some level, i know myself my number should be closer to 20. But unfortunately i enjoyed myself a bit much sometimes. Again like Dragan said, it was less about esteem issues and more about liking sex!

    I'm looking forward to being able to say 1 girl in 10 years though... she hasnt arrived just yet!


  • Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭Papillon87


    Bendihorse wrote: »
    I must be the only person here who can say just one...

    Nope, I've only had one too.

    Man, I neeed to get out there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    Dudess wrote: »
    'S cool. And eh... I've an extremely high sex drive too so... high five!! :)

    Snap!:pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Papillon87 wrote: »
    Man, I neeed to get out there.
    Why? As well as people here being ashamed of/trying to justify the number of partners they've had (including guys so it seems it's not just something women are made to feel ashamed of) there are also people trying to justify the number of partners they haven't had. It's not a competition. I didn't have sex much when I first became sexually active (just turned 18) - wasn't into it majorly tbh, bit of a late bloomer. It wasn't until about four or five years later that my sex drive started to increase and I began to have lots more of it. Seems to be increasing all the time since. Now my only hope is that this pattern continues til I die! :D

    Basically though, don't have sex just because you feel you have to be "out there". Have it because you're gaggin' for it... :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    25-30 not sure.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Magic Pips wrote: »
    Its silly and warranted on some level, i know myself my number should be closer to 20. But unfortunately i enjoyed myself a bit much sometimes. Again like Dragan said, it was less about esteem issues and more about liking sex!

    I'm looking forward to being able to say 1 girl in 10 years though... she hasnt arrived just yet!

    I dont think its warranted. its a personal choice, who are they to look down on you? I may be offended by how LOW their number is! Liberate your mind like!!

    I found myself that I did (and still do) have some maturing to do when it comes to sex. Its still viewed as a taboo by too many people.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,407 ✭✭✭✭justsomebloke


    Bendihorse wrote: »
    Im starting to forsee the mistakes i might end up making in the long term as a result of this low number and have realised i need to improve on it dramatically before i even consider getting married!

    why? if you are happy then there is nothing to worry about. Only having one sexual partner doesn't mean that you have missed out on sex once the 2 of you are enjoying what you are having.

    Do you really think that having a higher number will in any way maker you happier?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,638 ✭✭✭Iago


    shellyboo wrote: »
    What about if a guy is on a girl's speed dial for some last-resort sex at 4am? Cos I've got some of those.

    Don't start knocking speed dials!

    I'm in the mid to high double figures range, retired now of course*












    *married


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Dudess wrote: »
    Why? As well as people here being ashamed of/trying to justify the number of partners they've had (including guys so it seems it's not just something women are made to feel ashamed of) there are also people trying to justify the number of partners they haven't had. It's not a competition.

    I wouldn't be trying to justify anything. I'm just explaining why on occasion I have said no to going back to a bed some drunk girl who's name I couldn't remember and adding a notch to the old belt.

    I absolutely agree its not a competition. Its in the past too, so it shouldnt be a big deal.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    I wasn't referring to you Neil. Your post is actually a very good one and I wanted to thank it but I've run out.

    Your point about preferring sex with someone with whom you have more of a connection is a very valid one - and one I'm subscribing to more and more as I get older.


  • Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭Papillon87


    Dudess wrote: »
    Why? As well as people here being ashamed of/trying to justify the number of partners they've had (including guys so it seems it's not just something women are made to feel ashamed of) there are also people trying to justify the number of partners they haven't had. It's not a competition. I didn't have sex much when I first became sexually active (just turned 18) - wasn't into it majorly tbh, bit of a late bloomer. It wasn't until about four or five years later that my sex drive started to increase and I began to have lots more of it. Seems to be increasing all the time since. Now my only hope is that this pattern continues til I die! :D

    Basically though, don't have sex just because you feel you have to be "out there". Have it because you're gaggin' for it... :)

    Hehe, I wasn't being serious, really. Doesn't bother me in the slightest that I've only slept with a bf and that I didn't do so till I was 20. I don't have much of a libido tbh, and it's completely dormant I've found since returning to singledom! Think I'm just not very sexually driven.

    I'd nevahhh have teh sex just for the sake of it! I is much too shy for any of that malarkey! Just waiting for a nice dish to whet my appetite atm :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,883 ✭✭✭shellyboo


    Iago wrote: »
    Don't start knocking speed dials!

    Hey, I was advocating it!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Papillon87 wrote: »
    I don't have much of a libido tbh, and it's completely dormant I've found since returning to singledom! Think I'm just not very sexually driven.
    Sounds exactly like me in my late teens/early 20s... and as you can see, things changed very nicely indeed! :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    I don't get the obsession of knowing, I have not disclosed the number of sexual partners I have had to any one years, don't see the point.
    First off you have to find out what they think constitutes a sexual partner and that is not as black and white as people think as sexual encounter can be of many types rather then just heterosexual penetrative sex.

    Yes you do have to be careful and be sensible when it comes to sex/sexual encounters with a few partner but I prefer to have a chat about safe(r) sex and contraception rather then about numbers.

    Nothing worse then getting hot and flustered with or worse naked with a person to have them go " eh so like how many people have um done it with"....
    My answer tends to be " I have done as much or as little as I wanted with as many people as I have wanted to".
    Nothing worse then a lover who is more interested in people in your past then you when you are passionately present with them or who is the indiscreet type who rambles on about their past partners what the were like/did or while you are trying be with them and not ghosts of their past sexual encounters.

    Fair enough a couple may get off on an exchange of erotic encounters but again they come to an agreement about it cos it's not everyone's turn on.

    As for those who are blessed to have been lucky enough to find the person they are happy with
    with out having had more then a handful of sexual partners, really it's not a bad thing at all.
    Ok you may think what did you miss out on, but you could have missed out on a lot of crap shags or werid ones or ones you may have looked back on with regret rather then a lot of good experiences, as long as you are happy now with your sex life who cares.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭Bendihorse


    I haven't made the decision because i feel a social pressure, its because i want to experience different things and people, both good and bad. I dont want to be married at 40 and wishing i had done it all in my 20's. To be honest, i could see myself being tempted to cheat in my marrige in later years if i dont change things now. You only live once.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Dudess wrote: »
    Your point about preferring sex with someone with whom you have more of a connection is a very valid one - and one I'm subscribing to more and more as I get older.

    Well it's just my own preference. I suppose it's just the way I am. I prefer to be comfortable knowing the girl. I prefer to know I wont forget her name (which has happened me and it was AWKWARD!).

    I'm not against one nighters but I wouldnt be able for it every week! Plus my sex drive fluctuates, I can be very horny for months followed by a few months of not being all that bothered, I'm still not sure what causes it tbh. I do know that I find that flirty connection with an attractive girl who I connext with perks me up a whole load.

    Regarding asking your OH about past numbers, IMO its needless. In my case, I recently got back together with an ex who I went out with a few years ago. We wiped the slate clean, what went before was just that, the past, we're givin it a new start, we're both more mature now. I'm not naive. I'm sure she's been with her share of people while we were broken up, i certainly have been, not always intercourse which I didnt include in my "score". i don't particularly want to know about her experiences the past couple of years and i wont be telling her any of mine. It never ends well and I think people need to learn to just be happy and enjoy what they have now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Magic Pips


    Dudess wrote: »
    I wasn't referring to you Neil. Your post is actually a very good one and I wanted to thank it but I've run out.

    Your point about preferring sex with someone with whom you have more of a connection is a very valid one - and one I'm subscribing to more and more as I get older.

    Not sure if you were referring to me or not, but i'm happy with where i am, a few mistakes made along the way of course - but thats life! :)

    I simply wouldnt want a high number to be glamourised


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    I don't get the obsession of knowing, I have not disclosed the number of sexual partners I have had to any one years, don't see the point.
    First off you have to find out what they think constitutes a sexual partner and that is not as black and white as people think as sexual encounter can be of many types rather then just heterosexual penetrative sex.

    Yes you do have to be careful and be sensible when it comes to sex/sexual encounters with a few partner but I prefer to have a chat about safe(r) sex and contraception rather then about numbers.

    Nothing worse then getting hot and flustered with or worse naked with a person to have them go " eh so like how many people have um done it with"....
    My answer tends to be " I have done as much or as little as I wanted with as many people as I have wanted to".
    Nothing worse then a lover who is more interested in people in your past then you when you are passionately present with them or who is the indiscreet type who rambles on about their past partners what the were like/did or while you are trying be with them and not ghosts of their past sexual encounters.

    Fair enough a couple may get off on an exchange of erotic encounters but again they come to an agreement about it cos it's not everyone's turn on.

    As for those who are blessed to have been lucky enough to find the person they are happy with
    with out having had more then a handful of sexual partners, really it's not a bad thing at all.
    Ok you may think what did you miss out on, but you could have missed out on a lot of crap shags or werid ones or ones you may have looked back on with regret rather then a lot of good experiences, as long as you are happy now with your sex life who cares.

    Massive + 1.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    You only slept with an average of about four a year though, Magic Pips. 36 for a 28-year-old guy is not little but it's not utterly shocking either. I know guys around your age with 100+ shags behind them. Then again, why are we talking numbers still?
    Bendihorse wrote: »
    I haven't made the decision because i feel a social pressure, its because i want to experience different things and people, both good and bad. I dont want to be married at 40 and wishing i had done it all in my 20's. To be honest, i could see myself being tempted to cheat in my marrige in later years if i dont change things now. You only live once.
    That I can understand. A friend of mine who is 29 recently broke up with her boyfriend of 10 years for that very reason. She had no flings, flirty sessions with hot guys (well none that led to anything anyway), none of the sexual stuff you can do when single (not dissing the sexual stuff you can do in a relationship)... and she wants to start doing it now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    The girls looked at him and you could see the judgement in their faces, you could tell any ideas of them ever being with him went out the window right there and then!

    Silly tbh.
    Ridiculous. You know what? This may sound insecure but I'd prefer a guy who's ridden all round him (safely and not treating girls like sh1t to do so) than a guy who was in a five-year relationship with some girl whom he adored and whose heart will never be fully mended after finishing with her...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭Bendihorse


    There are many advantages to being in a relationship too, i have tried things i would never do with a stranger or someone i didn't trust implicitly and probably have a lot more sexual experiences under my belt that some people that have had 40 one night stands... But there is a want/question within me that needs to be satisfued, i dont want to be still wondering when im married and do something that i regret.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Magic Pips


    Dudess wrote: »
    You only slept with an average of about four a year though, Magic Pips. 36 for a 28-year-old guy is not little but it's not utterly shocking either. I know guys around your age with 100+ shags behind them. Then again, why are we talking numbers still?

    Wahoo i'm normal! I think durex should do a recount! :p

    Each to their own on the the actual numbers, i'd echo the general sentiment of the thread that its the reasons behind the numbers that matters.

    :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭SeekUp


    I've had 4 . . . and I'm 26 . . .


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Dudess wrote: »
    Ridiculous. You know what? This may sound insecure but I'd prefer a guy who's ridden all round him (safely and not treating girls like sh1t to do so) than a guy who was in a five-year relationship with some girl whom he adored and whose heart will never be fully mended after finishing with her...

    Well its funny cos i answered just before him with 4 or whatever it was at that time and they looked at me funny which I found hilarious. Very prudish and serious those poor girls are!

    Id agree. im pretty sure my Oh has probably been with more people than i have on account of the fact that sh hasnt had any really long relationships whereas I was 3 years. Do u know what else? I could care less. In fact, that is a good thing but a girl who knows what she's at = :) Neil.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    Dudess wrote: »
    Ridiculous. You know what? This may sound insecure but I'd prefer a guy who's ridden all round him (safely and not treating girls like sh1t to do so) than a guy who was in a five-year relationship with some girl whom he adored and whose heart will never be fully mended after finishing with her...
    So you wouldn't accept an inexperience guy (defined as 0-2 partners)?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So you wouldn't accept an inexperience guy (defined as 0-2 partners)?

    You see here's the thing.


    Take one person - in a 3 year relationship....one sexual partner ever - having sex with that person multiple times a week.

    Take another - single - has slept with 5 different people only a handful of times each..still single.


    Who's more inexperienced really? The whole "whats your number" thing is flawed tbh.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 303 ✭✭G&T


    Aged 16-19 Had 6 lovas


    19-now 2,himself and myself:D


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    shellyboo wrote: »
    See... in my world, and this is quite possibly why I have so many sexual partners, but whatever - how is there a situation where you would just give someone a bj, not sleep with them, and then never see them again to have proper sex? Am I just being dense?

    sometimes people fall into a drunken coma before you get to finish the bj with full sex:o


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Mick T


    i remember last year ,one night after a few beers my mate made a list of how many he could remember he sleep with , he then went to bed and got up the next day and there was his mum standing there with the list in her hand, it was funny as ****!!
    as for myself dont know, might make a list :rolleyes::D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,477 ✭✭✭✭Raze_them_all


    Mick T wrote: »
    i remember last year ,one night after a few beers my mate made a list of how many he could remember he sleep with , he then went to bed and got up the next day and there was his mum standing there with the list in her hand, it was funny as ****!!
    as for myself dont know, might make a list :rolleyes::D
    looking at porn dont count mick;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Mick T


    looking at porn dont count mick;)

    ha ha ha
    ray you f*cker
    im a good christian follower how dare you !:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,477 ✭✭✭✭Raze_them_all


    Mick T wrote: »
    ha ha ha
    ray you f*cker
    im a good christian follower how dare you !:D
    ha ha ha:) dont worry mick I wont tell these fine peopleabout the antrim incident;)


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,174 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Not that many considering how long I've been around and compared to others here anyway.:D I've had very few one nighters though. I get little out of it tbh. Yea it's grand at the time, but meh. If I don't feel some connection I get little enough pleasure out of it. Kinda like fiddling with myself with commentary attached.... :D

    Actually I can only think of a single one nighter that I really enjoyed. The longer I know someone the better it gets for me(and her). I could certainly count on the number of women I had sex with that was bloody great and that would be on the fingers of one hand(Miiissuss!).

    I suppose I've had enough to know what I want and enjoy, enough to know that for me at least quality trumps quantity anyday and not enough to be jaded about it all(I've seen the latter more than once). I'm maybe wired funny though.:o:)

    There's an awful lot of BS around the numbers game. Men add, women subtract in general. I can think of quite a few blokes who got married with an actual number in the single digits before wifey hoved into view.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Mick T


    ha ha ha:) dont worry mick I wont tell these fine peopleabout the antrim incident;)

    ha ha ha i totally forgot about that, just when i thought it was safe to start taking the piss again! you and your memory come waltzing in !!! ha ha :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    So you wouldn't accept an inexperience guy (defined as 0-2 partners)?
    Exactly what Neil said:
    You see here's the thing.


    Take one person - in a 3 year relationship....one sexual partner ever - having sex with that person multiple times a week.

    Take another - single - has slept with 5 different people only a handful of times each..still single.


    Who's more inexperienced really? The whole "whats your number" thing is flawed tbh.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    OK fess up.

    Which one of you beanie babes sapped the Waterford team of its brilliance before Croke park this year.

    Yer a jezabel.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    You see here's the thing.


    Take one person - in a 3 year relationship....one sexual partner ever - having sex with that person multiple times a week.

    Take another - single - has slept with 5 different people only a handful of times each..still single.


    Who's more inexperienced really? The whole "whats your number" thing is flawed tbh.

    Excellent point. When I was on number 1 I was getting loads, lots more than after successive numbers..


This discussion has been closed.
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