Invasive Deer

Kaldorn

I have been hearing reports of a non native deer species that is cross breeding with our own native reds how prevalant is this and what is the non native species responsible? (Muntjac)(Sika)??
Muntjac is a new arrival in Ireland.

lightening

The people on the hunting and shooting forums are well up on this. They are involved in the culls.

Edit.... Read the charter first. They hunt and shoot animals. If your going to get upset, just don't go there.

Kaldorn

we have crossed swords before but i am now enlightened..most of the guys on the hunting forum are dedicated conservationists so i have no problem with them. shooting doesnt bother me anymore really if it is legally carried out

whitser

john gormleys office recently declared an open season on muntjac. the lads who are in to deer stalking are more up on the situation. theres a thread going on at the moment about the muntjac on the hunting forum.

It wasn't me!

The deer that crossbreed with reds are sika. Never heard of fallow hybrids and, well, muntjac and reds interbreeding is, well, think of a labrador and a rat. Either way, it's not going to work.

As to prevalence? It's very prevalent. The best red herd we have in its purest state is the one in Kerry, and sika are rapidly extending their populations towards the herd. It's best that the original strain of the red heard is preserved untainted, so it's an area in need of serious sika control. I'm not sure how pure the reds in Wicklow are, but I'm sure NoNameRanger or John Griffin will have the answer if they stumble across this.

John Griffin

Kaldorn wrote: »

we have crossed swords before but i am now enlightened..most of the guys on the hunting forum are dedicated conservationists so i have no problem with them. shooting doesnt bother me anymore really if it is legally carried out

Hey Philip. Glad to see your attitude to hunters has changed:D Happy reading, all the information you need in the links below.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055373017

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055243148

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055369587

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055371400

dogmatix

Interesting subject - crossbreeding between two closely related species is not impossible. You can cross Horses and Donkeys and Lions and Tigers will interbreed (in captivity) to produce offspring. But normally the resulting offspring are sterile.

So if these two deer species are crossbreeding what is the status of their offspring? If sterile, this could be a threat to both breeds, right?

Alun

I'd be interested in a bit more information about this too. Particularly regarding the series of pictures John posted over in the hunting forum. I'm a bit confused as to what exactly is meant by "red-like" and "sika-like" for example, are there discrete cross-breed types or is there a complete spectrum of types from almost 100% red to almost 100% sika?

I've also noticed amongst the deer that I've sen that almost all the stags appear to be more red than sika. I'm guessing this is purely down to their size, and thus they always win out in the rut, thus ensuring the red gene becomes dominant, or is it more complicated than that?

lostexpectation

howd it get here?

It wasn't me!

Sika were introduced by Lord Powerscourt on his estate in Wicklow. Ever since, their range has expanded steadily.

John Griffin

Alun wrote: »

I'd be interested in a bit more information about this too. Particularly regarding the series of pictures John posted over in the hunting forum. I'm a bit confused as to what exactly is meant by "red-like" and "sika-like" for example, are there discrete cross-breed types or is there a complete spectrum of types from almost 100% red to almost 100% sika?

I've also noticed amongst the deer that I've sen that almost all the stags appear to be more red than sika. I'm guessing this is purely down to their size, and thus they always win out in the rut, thus ensuring the red gene becomes dominant, or is it more complicated than that?

Red-like show more features of a Red deer and Sika-like more features of a Sika deer.
There is a wide spectrum of hybridisation. Animals vary greatly in how they look.
Red/ Sika hybrids are fertile and capable of reproducing with either pure Reds or pure Sika.

I have seen small Sika-like stags drive big Red-like stags away from hinds in the rut. Attitude means alot it seems.
The Red-like stags spend more time out on the open hill, this is probably why you are seeing more Red-like animals.

The Sika-like stags seem to spend more time in woodlands with the exception of the herds around Djouce and Luggala.

thehairyone

hi all.

Pure Sika and pure Red deer are unlikely to mate in the wild (as their breeding cycles are different). The problem arose in Ireland in Lord Powerscourt estate. He kept pure red and pure sika in captivity and its believed (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that a young Red stag mated with a mature Sika hind producing a hybrid. These hybrids have no problems with mating with pure animals (either Red or Sika) or other hybrids. These hybrids were either released or escaped and now I believe most (if not all) of the Red deer in Wicklow are hybrids.

The Red deer in Killarney are thought to be the purest strain of native Irish deer we have (although there have been a number of introductions over the years of non-native red deer). There are pure Sika deer in Killarney (brought there by Lord Powerscourt before the inter breeding took place), to date as far as Im aware there have been no interbreeding between Sika and Red deer in Killarney. However, if a hybrid was to make its way to Killarney i.e. through range expansion or from the back of a truck then there would be a serious risk posed to the genetic integrity of the red deer herd there.

It is also worth mentioning that the pure Sika deer in Killarney are worthy of conservation in their own right as Killarney remains one of the few places in the world where pure Sika remain (I believe there is an island off Japan that also has a pure population). In most other areas where Sika are present it has hybridised with other deer species. It could be argued that Ireland may have an international obligation to protect this species.