Taxi Rip off

t5pwr

Hi all,

I think this is in the right thread.

Anyway I am going to ring the Taxi Regulator about this issue but I am not in a position to at the moment.

My girlfriend got a taxi last night in Dublin as she needed to get it from college as she had to stay late. It is in Dublin and I clocked the trip on google maps and it's all of about 1.2km. She has been charged various prices from €6 to €16 without much traffic. The time she was charged €16 there were 4 in the car and €6 on her own. I have told her to get the number of the taxi driver if she feels hard done by.

Anyway last night at about 21:00 she got a taxi on the same route again. She was charged €24 :eek: for the short journey of about 4 mins. She said that the drive did not have the fare meter on and that she rang the taxi company and they confirmed the price. She is a student and can't be forking this out everytime she has to stay late in college. She doesn't walk as the college has advised students not to at night.

Questions:
1. Is this kind of price illegal when there are fixed prices in place?
2. What can you do in a situation where you are left having to pay this price?

Sorry for the long thread but I had to give the outline.

Thanks

Nevyn

Ring the taxi regulator and carriage office.
If the meter wasn't on and they had not agreed a fix price before hand then she was ripped off.

I had to get in touch with them myself after an incdent at the the weekend they were very helpful.

Ham'nd'egger

t5pwr wrote: »

Hi all,

I think this is in the right thread.

Anyway I am going to ring the Taxi Regulator about this issue but I am not in a position to at the moment.

My girlfriend got a taxi last night in Dublin as she needed to get it from college as she had to stay late. It is in Dublin and I clocked the trip on google maps and it's all of about 1.2km. She has been charged various prices from €6 to €16 without much traffic. The time she was charged €16 there were 4 in the car and €6 on her own. I have told her to get the number of the taxi driver if she feels hard done by.

Anyway last night at about 21:00 she got a taxi on the same route again. She was charged €24 :eek: for the short journey of about 4 mins. She said that the drive did not have the fare meter on and that she rang the taxi company and they confirmed the price. She is a student and can't be forking this out everytime she has to stay late in college. She doesn't walk as the college has advised students not to at night.

Questions:
1. Is this kind of price illegal when there are fixed prices in place?
2. What can you do in a situation where you are left having to pay this price?

Sorry for the long thread but I had to give the outline.

Thanks

Sigh, another tale of a chancer out on the roads.

Given that she rang out for a cab there is some hope of having some progress with this. First off, get her to ascertain the taxi plate number from the cab company she hired the cab from and to try deal with it from here. When you have done this, then contact the Taxi Regulator for one or other of the following complaints. (You may find that they will probably insist on only dealing with a complaint on a form from them so be warned on this and don't be put off)

• Overcharging on a metered fare.
• Non use of a meter for a taxi journey.
• Not receiving a receipt after your journey. This may be the least of your worries, admittedly but it's the easier one to pin down if you want some recourse.

Try recall as many details on the car and driver as humanly possible; ie drivers name/appearance/car colour/type/make etc in order to narrow down the culprit and to aid identification in the event.

If it was a Hackney, then there is very little recourse on a fare being too high or low as they operate without a meter, the fare being "agreed" by the driver and passenger/s.

May I ask, where was she going from and to, and the cab company in question?

t5pwr

She didn't actually call the cab company she hailed him down.
Only after did she call the cab company to confirm such a crazy fare and they confirmed it.

She was travelling from Clonliffe Rd (Mater Dei) to Botanic Rd. Only just over 1km at about 21:00 so it wasn't an unusual hour and traffic would have been light. She said it took less then 5 mins for the journey. She will be requesting receipts from now on.

I was talking to the taxi regulator and they recommend ringing back the company to see if they can give the name of the guy who took the fare last night and then they can investigate. I was talking to her and she doesn't want to follow it up as she thinks nothing will be done about it. I'll be trying to convince her this evening

ArseBurger

A taxi for a 1KM journey? Recession be damned.

Ste.phen

rain is a great demotivator

Ste.phen

incidentally, i would have expected a fare of about 7,8 euro for that journey

Bluetonic

When she rang the taxi company is she sure it was a company and not just the number of the taxi drivers mate?

24euro for the short distance, you've got to be kidding.

In fairness people need to cop themselves on a bit and ensure the meter is always on (even if a fare has been agreed) and that it's reset once your journey begins.

Did she say why she was happy to use the taxi with the meter off?

meanmachine3

t5pwr wrote: »

She didn't actually call the cab company she hailed him down.

just out of curiosity but is it possible it could've been one of these bogus taxi's.
according to one of the union bosses there are something like over 2000 bogus taxi's operating illegally. unfortunatley it is going to be a case of one persons word against another :mad:

Ham'nd'egger

t5pwr wrote: »

She didn't actually call the cab company she hailed him down.
Only after did she call the cab company to confirm such a crazy fare and they confirmed it.

She was travelling from Clonliffe Rd (Mater Dei) to Botanic Rd. Only just over 1km at about 21:00 so it wasn't an unusual hour and traffic would have been light. She said it took less then 5 mins for the journey. She will be requesting receipts from now on.

I was talking to the taxi regulator and they recommend ringing back the company to see if they can give the name of the guy who took the fare last night and then they can investigate. I was talking to her and she doesn't want to follow it up as she thinks nothing will be done about it. I'll be trying to convince her this evening

I'd urge her to follow it up as well, a fare of €24 would need to be a hell of a long time or distance, even with extras added on. A half decent radio company would assist you in tracing down the driver (They won't want bad eggs in their basket) though it won't be definite that it will result in success.

Nevyn

meanmachine3 wrote: »

just out of curiosity but is it possible it could've been one of these bogus taxi's.
according to one of the union bosses there are something like over 2000 bogus taxi's operating illegally. unfortunatley it is going to be a case of one persons word against another :mad:

I ended up in one of them at the weekend, it was far from pleasant experience,
I certainly will be checking for the seal on the meter of every taxi I get into from now on.

Ham'nd'egger

Thaedydal wrote: »

I ended up in one of them at the weekend, it was far from pleasant experience,
I certainly will be checking for the seal on the meter of every taxi I get into from now on.

An unsealed meter is not essentially the most reliable way of verifying a taxi's legitimacy as a driver can often have had a meter repaired or adjusted and be awaiting an appointment for calibration. Given that taxi's are undergoing a fares revision over the coming weeks, unsealed meters will be the norm for the winter.

Jeapy

Probably a stupid question, but how would I know I was in an illegal taxi?

Ham'nd'egger

Jeapy wrote: »

Probably a stupid question, but how would I know I was in an illegal taxi?

Likely issues to look for are but by no means exhaustive or definitive...

*No Yellow Stickers displayed in both front and rear windows.
*No fare cards in the back seat pockets; no fare sticker in the car front area.
*Roof sign crooked and unlit or not connected by a cable at all.
*No Meter or unlit meter inside the car.
*No ID card of driver or ID holder.
*No Roof sign; I kid you not. Not too long ago, there was a infamous case of a Mayo woman who was attacked by a man whose car she got into expecting it to be a taxi.
*A Meter displaying an incorrect fare structure.
*A small or old car used as taxi. While there is no age limit or size restriction on cabs, the majority of taxis are mid size family cars or bigger
*An untidy/scruffy car inside. Even the most slovenly cabbie will keep his car to a bare minimum level.

If you are dubious as to the cabs legitimacy, either ask for the cab to pull over and exit it or chat to the driver about the trade; most taxi drivers are willing to chat and a legit driver will have no issue in establishing same as that is what the ID cards are for.

If Spook_ie or Mean Machine can add to this, I'd be grateful.

Nevyn

Taxi drivers fought to be allowed take off the stickers on the windows as it marks their car when parked out side their homes as a taxi and there for a target.

Not all cars have back seat pockets into to which to put fare cards.

The car I was in had a roof sign, a meter, a driver's id with picture ( which I was later told was false a the id number didn't exist) and a fare card on the dash.

The care seemed in reasonable condition but it was dark and hard enough to see in the dark.

The driver wasn't sure about where I asked to go which was 10 mins form the city centre, upon reaching the quays wanted to up to O'Connell street and then on dame st to get southside and when I said no and explained the route I wanted tried to talk me into taking caple st bridge, he didn't believe there was such a street as New Street and then argued about where I wanted to get out not stopping where I asked but pulling 200 meters further down the road passed another junction.

I wasn't happy which is why I made a not of the ID number, I paid him, he took for ever to make change and then I got out and I walked away. He called me back and demanded
I pay him properly, trying to say instead of a 20 euro note and and 10 euro not I had only gave him a 5 and a 10. He was aggressive and abusive and when I checked my purse to make sure I had not make an error and went as far as to snatch another 10 euro note out of my hand, shove me away and get into the taxi and drive off.

I have been getting taxi's for the last 16 years in Dublin and have never had a bad run in with any drivers until last Saturday and yes he wasn't irish and I will think long and hard ever again about getting into a taxi with a non irish driver and a taxi that is not part of a company with whom I should have some recourse.

Yes I did lodge complaints with the carriage office, the taxi regulator and the garda.

markpb

Thaedydal wrote: »

Taxi drivers fought to be allowed take off the stickers on the windows as it marks their car when parked out side their homes as a taxi and there for a target.

Different sticker. They objected to A4 sized stickers on the rear side windows because they couldn't be removed at night (and sometimes prevented the window from being rolled down). The new stickers are only slightly larger than a tax disc and are stuck in the top left corner of the front and back windows so they're less obvious when a car is parked at night.

OP I know this sounds insensitive but your girlfriend should have checked the meter and should have known €24 wasn't a realistic fare. I know hindsight is great but at least she (and hopefully others) will know for again.

t5pwr

markpb wrote: »

Different sticker. They objected to A4 sized stickers on the rear side windows because they couldn't be removed at night (and sometimes prevented the window from being rolled down). The new stickers are only slightly larger than a tax disc and are stuck in the top left corner of the front and back windows so they're less obvious when a car is parked at night.

OP I know this sounds insensitive but your girlfriend should have checked the meter and should have known €24 wasn't a realistic fare. I know hindsight is great but at least she (and hopefully others) will know for again.

Ah yeah, I've given her enough stick about it at this stage. From now on she is going to get a receipt if the charge is outreagous. She wasn't paying attention to the meter and only realised that it hadn't been switched on when she got there. It could have been a bogus taxi driver, I think next time maybe a photo of the taxi would help and even of the card if that's possible. Although I wouldn't want one of them getting aggressive with her...

At the same time I would like her to follow it up but she has nothing to prove that it happened and no details of the driver. I'll get the number that she called and see if I can see what company it was at least or as one poster said it could have been a friend and if so it might be worth passing that number onto the guards...

meanmachine3

Thaedydal wrote: »

he didn't believe there was such a street as New Street and then argued about where I wanted to get out not stopping where I asked but pulling 200 meters further down the road passed another junction.

I wasn't happy which is why I made a not of the ID number, I paid him, he took for ever to make change and then I got out and I walked away. He called me back and demanded
I pay him properly, trying to say instead of a 20 euro note and and 10 euro not I had only gave him a 5 and a 10. He was aggressive and abusive and when I checked my purse to make sure I had not make an error and went as far as to snatch another 10 euro note out of my hand, shove me away and get into the taxi and drive off.

thaedydal what happened to you borders on or maybe even assault. as far as i know tommy gorman is advising women about travelling alone in taxi's these days. if it was built up and being on a saturday night? my suggestion would be to ask to driver to pull in where you see the nearest guard let them know whats going on. also city centre can be a no go area when it comes to taxi's clogging up the streets so in alot of cases they aint going to get far on the main roads like georges street or dame street, my point being there are plenty of guards around and i would say this to anyone reading these.
if in doubt check it out.
there are plenty of taxi's who would jump at a fare. regarding f/n's. i once saw a woman jump into a taxi after hailing it in o'connell st. not to long ago and get out just as quick when she realised he was a f/n
f/n = foreign national before anyone asks
as for the o.p.
fortunately i'm not a taxi driver. i just read alot in the papers and whats posted in boards whether it's commuting,d.15 or consumer. i know alot of posters have requested to be taken to a garda stn over fare disputes. so maybe the o.p. can suggest this to his g/f in case it happens again in future, whitehall garda stn in not to far from botanic.
also regarding taking plate and reg numbers etc. a while ago one of the taxi unions had about 3 cars sitting behind one another on one of the ranks and all these cars had the following. (1) same plate(2) same reg and were the same make and model car and not one person noticed this. he made a very vaild point.
thank god i only use a taxi twice a year and thats not by choice

Nevyn

It was early saturday evening and there was no traffic issues.
I'm a fairly confident person and pretty well able to look after myself,
only went back encase I had left something in the car, but I was still rattled.
I have given all the info I can to the garda, carriage office and taxi regulator.
I had hailed the taxi not far from my home and was really glad I wasn't case of it being 3am when I had been out for a few drinks.

Orion

Thaedydal wrote: »

Ring the taxi regulator and carriage office.
If the meter wasn't on and they had not agreed a fix price before hand then she was ripped off

Wrong. If the meter wasn't on and didn't print a receipt the driver was operating illegally. All trips of any distance are on the meter now - there is no provision for 'agreed fares'.

Spook_ie

Macros42 wrote: »

Wrong. If the meter wasn't on and didn't print a receipt the driver was operating illegally. All trips of any distance are on the meter now - there is no provision for 'agreed fares'.

Not quite true..

There is a provision for any pre booked fare to be set at an agreed price, this price may or may not be less than a metered fare but has to be agreed in advance and a waiver form signed. The meter should AFAIK ( as for all trips ) be on but the total is disregarded in favour of the agreed price...

Guy:Incognito

Macros42 wrote: »

All trips of any distance are on the meter now - there is no provision for 'agreed fares'.

The taxi regulator woman (cant remember her name) was on the radio yesterday saying the have issued a form thet gets signed by the driver and passenger specifically for this.

Orion

Spook_ie wrote: »

Not quite true..

There is a provision for any pre booked fare to be set at an agreed price, this price may or may not be less than a metered fare but has to be agreed in advance and a waiver form signed. The meter should AFAIK ( as for all trips ) be on but the total is disregarded in favour of the agreed price...

Stekelly wrote: »

The taxi regulator woman (cant remember her name) was on the radio yesterday saying the have issued a form thet gets signed by the driver and passenger specifically for this.

Granted - but as Spook said it applies to pre-booked fares. And must be agreed at time of booking and in writing. The OP's gf hailed the taxi on the street - so meter it is.

Bluetonic

Macros42 wrote: »

The OP's gf hailed the taxi on the street - so meter it is.

If you hail a taxi you can still use the waiver system, at least my experience and various radio coverage would lead me to this. As stated above the meter must remain on.

The_Conductor

Even regular taxis are ridiculous.

Myself and a colleague got a flight which was delayed by several hours and landed in Dublin after midnight a few weeks back. As we were going in different directions we took two cabs from the rank. The lady who was driving my cab asked where I was going (Lucan village) and then made it blatantly clear she did not want any further interaction with me (I tried to talk to her on three seperate occasions about the radio programme she had blaring- and asking her to lower it a little). She went down the M50 (so far so good) but instead of taking the N4 slip kept going. I asked her where she was bringing me- she continued to ignore me. When we passed the N11 (Cork) turnoff- I told her to stop or I was ringing the Gardai. She made some excuse about her GPS not working and said she knew where she was going. She took the Tallaght exit and went towards Blessington, turning up the Belgard Road- and proceeded to cut across by Newlandscross and then the Outer Ring Road. It wasn't over- she then went via the Leixlip flyover and back into Lucan village by the old Celbridge Road. I asked her to stop at the Garda Baracks- I told her I had no intention in paying the fair on the meter- that my normal fair for this route was EUR35- and if she wanted to dispute it to come into the Garda Baracks with me. She was angry but did not dispute the amount I was willing to pay, and left me there and drove off (at this stage approx. 1.10AM in the morning).

I rang the taxi regulator the following morning to complain and was informed that geographic testing of drivers was carried out by Gardai attached to the carriage office- and they were not in a position to accept an official complaint from me on the matter.

Meanwhile my colleague who was going to Rathmines from the airport the previous night arrived in work- to tell me her driver had no idea how to get to Rathmines from the airport and she had to direct him the whole way..........

What the hell?

Ham'nd'egger

smccarrick wrote: »

Even regular taxis are ridiculous.

Myself and a colleague got a flight which was delayed by several hours and landed in Dublin after midnight a few weeks back. As we were going in different directions we took two cabs from the rank. The lady who was driving my cab asked where I was going (Lucan village) and then made it blatantly clear she did not want any further interaction with me (I tried to talk to her on three seperate occasions about the radio programme she had blaring- and asking her to lower it a little). She went down the M50 (so far so good) but instead of taking the N4 slip kept going. I asked her where she was bringing me- she continued to ignore me. When we passed the N11 (Cork) turnoff- I told her to stop or I was ringing the Gardai. She made some excuse about her GPS not working and said she knew where she was going. She took the Tallaght exit and went towards Blessington, turning up the Belgard Road- and proceeded to cut across by Newlandscross and then the Outer Ring Road. It wasn't over- she then went via the Leixlip flyover and back into Lucan village by the old Celbridge Road. I asked her to stop at the Garda Baracks- I told her I had no intention in paying the fair on the meter- that my normal fair for this route was EUR35- and if she wanted to dispute it to come into the Garda Baracks with me. She was angry but did not dispute the amount I was willing to pay, and left me there and drove off (at this stage approx. 1.10AM in the morning).

I rang the taxi regulator the following morning to complain and was informed that geographic testing of drivers was carried out by Gardai attached to the carriage office- and they were not in a position to accept an official complaint from me on the matter.
What the hell?

Without prying too much, that sounds suspiciously like a woman nicknamed "Winnie the Pooh"; she was driving some sort of a MPV if it is indeed her. Tales of her getting lost and overcharging are almost at Volume One now; she works out of the airport for the most part.

As for that last paragraph, that shows you just why a great many taxi drivers show scant regard for the office of the Taxi Regulator and their inability and unwillingness to deal with genuine complaints.

The_Conductor

Hamndegger wrote: »

Without prying too much, that sounds suspiciously like a woman nicknamed "Winnie the Pooh"; she was driving some sort of a MPV if it is indeed her. Tales of her getting lost and overcharging are almost at Volume One now; she works out of the airport for the most part.

As for that last paragraph, that shows you just why a great many taxi drivers show scant regard for the office of the Taxi Regulator and their inability and unwillingness to deal with genuine complaints.

Errr- yes, it was an MPV, not sure about the "Winnie the Pooh" nickname though? She basically blared crap music out of the radio- refused to have any interaction with me (or lower the radio) and really had no clue whatsoever about where she was going (though I was actually worried that I was going to be driven somewhere and beaten up/robbed by someone working in cohorts with her).

I was actually furious with the taxi regulator crowd over their refusing to take a complaint from me about her. I did subsequently ring the Carriage Office- and had someone bleat at me that they must have passed their examination- if they were properly licenced,and that there was nothing further that they could do either.........

I'm appalled......

HydeRoad

What a heartbreaking thread...

I drove a taxi in Dublin for just on four years now. When I started first it wasn't a bad job. You had to work the nights to get money, but at least you were guaranteed a night's earnings.

Now it is no strange thing to work seven or eight hours midweek and come home with €40 or €50. I have driven in circles and parked up, often just on the side of a street for a break (because I couldn't access a rank) for TWO HOURS without a fare. I worked on a radio for a while, and paid them €80 a week for the same amount of work. Enough work midweek on the radio for just two cars, but six or seven guys looking for the work. I have counted FOURTEEN taxis parked up in Lucan village on a midweek evening. I don't even know where the rank begins and ends! How much work is there in Lucan village on a Tuesday evening???

Anyway I have given up. I'm starting a new job soon. It is absolutely crazy, madness.

The legacy of this regulator is not a drop in standards, but a sheer collapse of every shred of standard in the book. A collapse of the industry, from the customer's point of view, and from the driver's point of view. The regulator cannot be seen to have made a misjudgement, or to backtrack on anything, so siege policy is the answer, to pull down the shutters, answer to nobody, and be unavailable for comment.

There are hundreds of drivers leaving the industry, good drivers who respected their job. They are being replaced two and threefold by new entrants to the job, many, in fairness, who need a crack at earning a few bob, and enter the profession with the best of intentions, and many, unfortunately, who have no respect for the rules, their colleagues, or the customer.

Unfortunately, the customer, generally speaking, has no real concept of how bad things are, and are still bemused when faced with a rogue taxi driver, and do not know what to do. They are not quick enough to get ID, and I am sure 99.9% of rogue fares go unreported. It is not up to the customer to police the taxi service, but that is what the regulator expects to happen. Inspectors cost money.

As Duncan Bannatyne says, "I'm out!" A tinpot taxi service for a tinpot country...

patrickc

HydeRoad wrote: »

Unfortunately, the customer, generally speaking, has no real concept of how bad things are, and are still bemused when faced with a rogue taxi driver, and do not know what to do. They are not quick enough to get ID, and I am sure 99.9% of rogue fares go unreported. It is not up to the customer to police the taxi service, but that is what the regulator expects to happen. Inspectors cost money.

i for one was quite drunk a few weeks ago, and dropped a mate home a few miles from town, and then got dropped home myself, was charged 32 euro, for a normal fare for me that'd be 7 euro, anyhow, thought musta been that my mate hadnt paid, he had for his journey and got 19 off him, so that was 51 euro for a round trip of approx 10 miles, wish I'd gotten the plate number or been a bit more sober, but i remember the car and wont be getting into his again.

HydeRoad

http://dublintaxies.blogspot.com/

This guy has a good take on it all. Drop down the page a bit, and read about what happened to the taxi drivers in Athlone. Then skip down further and read about the taxi rank in Temple Street...

The one thing I fail to understand, is why SO much approbrium is being heaped onto the taxi regulator, all you read is Kathleen Doyle this, Kathleen Doyle that, Kathleen Doyle, blah, blah, blah. It has been made quite plain and clear, that the taxi regulator cannot, and has no intention of, turning. The lady is not for turning, as another great lady in politics once said.

I actually believe the regulator. I see the regulator's office as having just one job, and doing that one job very well, that of a siege post for the government. When people complain about the HSE, it is Minister Harney's head they call for. Why is it not Minister Dempsey who is being hounded on all the critical issues pertaining to the taxi industry at the moment? Protests to the taxi regulator, are, to my mind, a complete waste of time and effort. It is the Fianna Fáil government, and Minister Dempsey directly, who should be taking the flak, not a tiny bureaucratic siege post.

Ham'nd'egger

Hyde,

The reason why most drivers call for the Regulator to resign is mainly to do with the fact that she (Kathleen Doyle) is perceived to be responsible for all that is wrong with the industry. I am long sighted enough to see that much of it falls back to the Ministry of Transport and the courts, the long and short of it is that a great many issues in the industry that is rubbing off on drivers on the ground can be sorted out or assisted by the Taxi Regulator's office and thus far, there is little movement to appease some of these factors for current operators. There was a begrudging respect for the Carriage Office in Dublin as they knew the lay of the land and could tell quickly enough if a complaint was legit or not and they acted accordingly. This increasingly is not the case with the current Regulators Office and they just do not seem to understand the industry from the inside out, hence the broad disregard for it and it's "remit".

It may surprise us to know that the taxi market most famed worldwide for a rigid and well versed driver knowledge and car standard, London, also has a market that has no cap on taxis and drivers. The trick in London is that TfL (And their Carriage Office predecessors) make it hard enough for somebody to become a taxi driver in London and to pass a cab out as suitable. This ensures that the trade affords it's workers some protection from newer entrants and it allows passengers piece of mind that a drivers knows his way from A to B. While such a standard may be excessive IMO, it does show that when the bar is raised, all sides of the trade benefit when it is done right and this is not the case here in Ireland.

HydeRoad wrote: »

http://dublintaxies.blogspot.com/

This guy has a good take on it all. Drop down the page a bit, and read about what happened to the taxi drivers in Athlone. Then skip down further and read about the taxi rank in Temple Street...

The one thing I fail to understand, is why SO much approbrium is being heaped onto the taxi regulator, all you read is Kathleen Doyle this, Kathleen Doyle that, Kathleen Doyle, blah, blah, blah. It has been made quite plain and clear, that the taxi regulator cannot, and has no intention of, turning. The lady is not for turning, as another great lady in politics once said.

I actually believe the regulator. I see the regulator's office as having just one job, and doing that one job very well, that of a siege post for the government. When people complain about the HSE, it is Minister Harney's head they call for. Why is it not Minister Dempsey who is being hounded on all the critical issues pertaining to the taxi industry at the moment? Protests to the taxi regulator, are, to my mind, a complete waste of time and effort. It is the Fianna Fáil government, and Minister Dempsey directly, who should be taking the flak, not a tiny bureaucratic siege post.