Tax Levy U turn

Tazdedub

Well the government have now done a U turn on the tax levy of 1%. This has now been changed not to include anybody who is on minimum wage.

This is really a sham of a budget and the education cuts haven't even been tackled yet. I think they would have been better waiting till the usual date in December and then had a proper budget.

Surely now the government has to have another budget to get the money in to replace the monies lost in these 2 u Turns.

Tazdedub

here is the link from the rte website. http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1021/budgetlevy.html

Run_to_da_hills

Tazdedub wrote: »

Well the government have now done a U turn on the tax levy of 1%. This has now been changed not to include anybody who is on minimum wage.

This is really a sham of a budget and the education cuts haven't even been tackled yet. I think they would have been better waiting till the usual date in December and then had a proper budget.

Surely now the government has to have another budget to get the money in to replace the monies lost in these 2 u Turns.

Expect an emergency budget in December and a possible means test on the higher end claiming the mic*ky money. .

Mr.Micro

An ill thought out budget that shows Lenihan to be incompetent IMO. No matter how you look at it the cuts will affect the disadvantaged, the elderly and children etc. Re-do the whole budget and get some help this time. A troupe of clowns would do better .

seamus

That's what happens when you make a solicitor minister for finance....

mike65

Nincompoops.

Mike

CtrlSource

If i was a foreign investor looking for somewhere to put my money, i would be concerned at the way Budget '09 has been handled by this Government. These massive u-turns are not down to Lenihan, but rather to Cowan caving in to the huge eternal pressures exerted on the Government by the Unions and the Court of public opinion.

The Medical Card for over 70s is one thing, they really needed to save face and Michael Parkinson made some very valid and emotive points on the Late Late Show last week (saw him on the repeat show last night) which swayed me in favour of keeping it for over 70s.

However, even though i'm personally affected by it and it was the measure i most disliked in the Budget, i think they should have left the income 'levy' as it was

mike65

mike65 wrote: »

Nincompoops.

Mike

The whole lot of them must be.They really really are going slipshod in terms of being populist since the change of leader.You'd know by the way they're going on that,there's a big voice missed at Cabinet
I knew Bertie was the brains of the outfit

CtrlSource

seamus wrote: »

That's what happens when you make a barrister minister for finance....

Fixed

brianthebard

CtrlSource wrote: »

Fixed

Seamus might have been making a dig at Cowan though?

CtrlSource

brianthebard wrote: »

Seamus might have been making a dig at Cowan though?

But surely you can't blame the man who was in the post for the previous 3 budgets? :P

Villain

The 50 million lost by excluding the minimum wage from the levy will regained by adjusting he levy and going on a Green press release it would seem the ceiling for 1% at €100k will be reduced to perhaps €80k or €90k.

I would love to know what the cabinet said when these proposal's were first put to them, did they agree or were they told to shut up or get demoted?

miju

Villain wrote: »

The 50 million lost by excluding the minimum wage from the levy will regained by adjusting he levy and going on a Green press release it would seem the ceiling for 1% at €100k will be reduced to perhaps €80k or €90k.

truth be told the 50 million could easily be regained by reducing the completely ludicrus 1.5 billlion euros they've effectively given to the builders with their sub prime Home Choice Loans bull.

Villain

FF p1ss off the builders?? LOL no chance

I was giving my opinion btw the Minister said it would regained from adjusting the levy.

miju

Villain wrote: »

FF p1ss off the builders?? LOL no chance

the even funnier thing is that this is also doomed to failure. Why? simple little thing called EU law

Talk about rock and a hard place :D:D:D:D

ninty9er

CtrlSource wrote: »

However, even though i'm personally affected by it and it was the measure i most disliked in the Budget, i think they should have left the income 'levy' as it was

+1

Personally. My own view. You deliver a budget and get on with it, unpopular or not.

The purpose of a budget isn't to please people, it's to run the country for a year.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

gurramok

ninty9er wrote: »

+1

Personally. My own view. You deliver a budget and get on with it, unpopular or not.

The purpose of a budget isn't to please people, it's to run the country for a year.

Must that 'patriotic duty' thing again:rolleyes:

Still waiting on them to tackle the elephant in the room, the €19bn public sector wage bill, we only hope.

ninty9er

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You needn't worry, there's enough grief from within on that front....not from the over 70s however

gurramok wrote: »

Still waiting on them to tackle the elephant in the room, the €19bn public sector wage bill, we only hope.

The pay isn't the main problem, it's the pensions!!

gurramok

ninty9er wrote: »

The pay isn't the main problem, it's the pensions!!

Then, they must do something.

The crux is, are FF willing to take on the public sector unions?

I'm thinking hard as to when the last time they did, help me , was it in 1987?:eek:

If they do take them on, they can rescue this economy.

If they don't, it's the 80's all over again with a Ray McSharry needed to save things 10 yrs later! (1977-87)

ninty9er

gurramok wrote: »

Then, they must do something.

The crux is, are FF willing to take on the public sector unions?

I'm thinking hard as to when the last time they did, help me , was it in 1987?:eek:

If they do take them on, they can rescue this economy.

If they don't, it's the 80's all over again with a Ray McSharry needed to save things 10 yrs later! (1977-87)

Personally, I'd be in favour of a new public sector contract, with a defined contribution pension, rather than a defined benefit and the civvies and pubbies can contribute to their own pensions if taken in from 2009 onwards, while I'm not sure what can be done with existing ones.

gurramok

Pensions cost 10% of the €19bn public sector wage bill.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article4969079.ece

The cost of the public-sector pay bill has risen by 47.3% since 2002 when benchmarking awarded average increases of 8.9% across the sector. The consequences of this election-winning strategy were revealed by David Doyle, secretary-general of the Department of Finance, earlier this year.

6 friggin years its gone up by 48%, that is some feat.

Matt Cooper's analysis is spot on. Just look at that HSE bill!! :eek:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article4968594.ece

By studiously ensuring that it does not alienate one interest group — and its powerful leaders in the trade-union movement — the government has managed to outrage just about everyone else instead, particularly with its ham-fisted attempt to restrict medical card eligibility for pensioners. It is incredible that this particular €100m cost saving was identified in a €16.5 billion health budget rather than dealing with the overpaid, underworked pen-pushers who populate the Health Service Executive. Could not the overseas aid budget have been cut by this amount instead, still allowing a generous €750m to be exported to the third world? And why do we give €70m each year to fund prizes for horse and greyhound races?

seamus

CtrlSource wrote: »

Fixed

[noparse]Potaytoes:Potah-toes[/noparse]

brianthebard wrote: »

Seamus might have been making a dig at Cowan though?

I'm not that clever

ninty9er wrote: »

Personally. My own view. You deliver a budget and get on with it, unpopular or not.

The purpose of a budget isn't to please people, it's to run the country for a year.

In an ideal world. But we know that politicians have no interest except getting voted in at the next election. Without the U turns, they'd have been slaughtered at the local and general elections - and they may still be if too many more TDs decide to step out.

gurramok wrote: »

Still waiting on them to tackle the elephant in the room, the €19bn public sector wage bill, we only hope.

The government are afraid of touching the public sector, and I'm not entirely sure why. Yes, the civil servants will strike. That's a given. But I don't think any Government has ever had more public support for cracking the civil servants.

If they planned properly to ensure that most services could be kept at 50% capacity, I'm sure the public could tolerate a months' striking action from the civil service. At that point, the civil servants will have used up that month's pay and they'll be forced to negotiate.

Tackling the civil service will involve sitting out a strike and waiting until they break. There is no other way around it, because no matter what reforms you try to impose on them, they will strike. That's probably what makes it something which governments have continually been avoiding.

I think though the next thing will be education. The media have grabbed onto this one and won't let go - the budget provides for €70m (?) in prize funds for horse and greyhound racing; most of whom are already operating completely tax-free. Simply halving this fund will allow them to restore the cuts they've made in education, and the only people who'll be annoyed are a few hundred already wealthy horse and dog owners. They are of course, friends of Fianna Fail, but what's friendship when you have a country to run, right?

mike65

seamus wrote: »

If they planned properly...

And thats where it all falls down of course.

Mike

Liam Byrne

I haven't a NOTION how many consultants they paid to help with the budget, or whether FF are as idiotic as now they appear to be, but I posted way back saying ONE KEY FACTOR:

Check what the basic reasonable cost of living is and leave anyone below that out of any extra taxes and changes; tax the big boys who've been coining it for the last 10 years with multiple millions in bonuses alone!

So (as I've said elsewhere):
Rough approximation of incomre required for minimum standard lifestyle: €2,000 per month

1) DON'T TOUCH PENSIONERS UNDER THIS AMOUNT
2) DON'T ADD 1% TAX FOR PEOPLE UNDER THIS AMOUNT

Leaving aside the extra costs that the VAT & petrol and changes have landed on us, diluting that €2K, if FF had done the above 2 while implementing their changes they would have managed most of what they were trying to achieve without the backlash.

It's what they seem to have (roughly) done now anyways.

Crikey - I know they say the dogs in the street know more than this shower but its bad when I post something 2 weeks ago that it's taken 70-odd TDs earning about €120K each per year those 2 weeks to cop on to.

Only good thing is that seeing the pensioners mobilise and boo FF means that maybe, just maybe, we might get an alternative government next time around.....unless FF are hoping that (a) alzheimers or death will get them or (b) the conspiracy theory - FF want to f**k up because they haven't the intelligence or ability to bring us through the slump and want someone else to blame so that they can come back in to the rescue when the "economic cycle" swings around again.....

Mr.Micro

Maybe the Government of Clowns should have passed a bill for compulsory emigration as that may help solve some of all the problems. People are being most inconvenient in opting to live in our own country. Never before had this lot had to deal with a population that expects, and it shows. Resign if they cannot deal with it is my advice.

As far as helping the builders via council loans, has the Government heard of subprime lending, idiots, that was what brought the global financial crisis to a head, and the incompetents appear to want to repeat this again. It appears to be lost on this lot who do not have a clue.

sovtek

ninty9er wrote: »

The purpose of a budget isn't to please people, it's to run the country for a year.

...against the will of the people that elected you?

Uh? I thought this was a democracy?

sovtek

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Looked more like they were putting the country's interests last in the budget and thats why everyone is pissed off. Now they are having to save their skins because the former has been made obvious.

Tony EH

sovtek wrote: »

Looked more like they were putting the country's interests last in the budget and thats why everyone is pissed off. Now they are having to save their skins because the former has been made obvious.

They put the interests of the rich (and their financial supporters) first yet again. Still no real hits in the saleries and incomes of high earners. Instead, FF chose not to piss off their fundamental support base and take from pensioners and hit the lower end of wage earning capacity.

Only a person who has completely seperated themselves from the realities of living in this Country in the 21st Century (with all the monetary problems that go along with that) could possibly come up with a 1% levy for EVERYONE in the Country.

The Med card issue is one thing (and McCrevy should never have made it a blanket issue in the first place), but that levy was extremely short-sighted. It wouldn't have affected me personally in a big way, but how somebody could think that people on a minimum wage (and below, it happens) could afford to lose yet more money is beyond me.

Am I surprised? No...it's Fianna Fail and this is just indicative of their mindset. Gone are the days of old, but this party of the right wing rich elite are still trading on past glories.


Tony