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HPAT
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Damn, looks like you guys have a good bit of time on your hands, while the leaving cert is on. Because these are really long conversations and we got people writing essays on how STUPID the HPAT is and so on......
What's weird is that entry to medicine in Australia is mainly based on the results of their UMAT aptitude test and is about 100 times the size of Ireland and you don't get this many people complaining. Instead their more productive and find ways to tackle the aptitude test. They know complaining will get them nowhere.
And you guys want to be doctors? I can imagine you guys starting to complain about your patients' problems to your colleagues just because you wouldn't be sure of yourself. I highly suggest you to choose some other course if you can't handle and aptitude test.
Don't get me wrong your points make a lot of sense. But it's not a solution to anything.
I am studying. Doesn't mean I don't need a break now and again ! The length of my complaint is explained by my 90wpm (thank you transition year!).
Anyway, you fail to make one decent point as to why the HPAT is in any way suitable except for saying that a lot more pople sit the UMAT and they don't complain. This is complete and utter nonsense. Firstly, a lot of people complain. Secondly, you don't hear them complaining because this is an Irish based website, so you don't tend to get a lot of prospective Australian doctors round these parts !
Now, we were all informed prior to the HPAT that there was no point in doing courses on how to pass the HPAT. We were told there was no point in working, no point in doing anything - except for getting a good nights sleep before the exam. So, while complaining you argue will get us nowhere, apparently neither will solid hard-work and grafting (doesn't stop people from trying mind you).
Anyway, I don't feel it is a waste of time to complain about these matters. The more people that complain, the more we have a chance of changing things. If we were to all just sit down and say "Ahh, sure...that grand", then nothing would ever get done. “Science may have found a cure for most evils, but it has found no remedy for the worst of them all--the apathy of human beings.”
There are many people who have dedicated their lives to becoming a doctor and may now be robbed because of an unfair, irrelevant exam. I speak not of the Leaving Cert now, but of the HPAT. As a 6th year student currently sitting the Leaving Cert I am the last person who you would expect to be defending the hell that is this year. But I am. At least this test is fair to some degree. The HPAT, on the other hand, is a complete and total joke, bhuel, i mo thuairim fein !
I dunno, I just find it really upsetting to imagine people I know who have worked so hard to get a shot at medicine, only to be shot down because of a test with incredibly stupid questions that have no basis in medicine.0 -
I didn't need to make any decent point. I said and I quote "Don't get me wrong your points make a lot of sense" I'm not disagreeing with you.
I'm saying why is everybody wasting their time complaining when they can be productive. Anyway, the fact that ACER doesn't advise candidates to take part in these pre-aptitude tests doesn't mean that there are aren't other ways to do better in the aptitude test. You can easily do better in these exams doing a lot of things such as improving your short term memory, doing quizzes etc. I know that there isn't any scientific research to back up my statement. But I'm pretty much sure that it will help you do better in the aptitude test because your building new connections in your brain which will help your spacial, short term memory etc. Which is what the HPAT is testing exactly
I'm pretty much aware that this is an Irish website so don't assume that I don't know. I've searched the web and couldn't find much sh** on people complaning about the UMAT. :rolleyes:
Sure it's true that complaining will bring change what change can you do by complaining to a load of other people in the same state as you. Anybody that disagrees should get off their ass and actually write a letter to minister of education instead of wasting their time complaining on this.
I'm pretty much sure everybody here is doing their best to get medicine and studying their asses off. Some of us have even been throught the worst sh** they can think of. So stop complaining and get over yourself. And the questions have a lot of basis medicine. But maybe you don't understand. Being a doctor requires you to get twisted stories straight and you require question solving skills which is exactly what Section 1 and Secttion 3 is about. Section 2 is about how if you actually do care to become a doctor. Show's your empathising skills with other people. :cool:I am studying. Doesn't mean I don't need a break now and again ! The length of my complaint is explained by my 90wpm (thank you transition year!).
Anyway, you fail to make one decent point as to why the HPAT is in any way suitable except for saying that a lot more pople sit the UMAT and they don't complain. This is complete and utter nonsense. Firstly, a lot of people complain. Secondly, you don't hear them complaining because this is an Irish based website, so you don't tend to get a lot of prospective Australian doctors round these parts !
Now, we were all informed prior to the HPAT that there was no point in doing courses on how to pass the HPAT. We were told there was no point in working, no point in doing anything - except for getting a good nights sleep before the exam. So, while complaining you argue will get us nowhere, apparently neither will solid hard-work and grafting (doesn't stop people from trying mind you).
Anyway, I don't feel it is a waste of time to complain about these matters. The more people that complain, the more we have a chance of changing things. If we were to all just sit down and say "Ahh, sure...that grand", then nothing would ever get done. “Science may have found a cure for most evils, but it has found no remedy for the worst of them all--the apathy of human beings.”
There are many people who have dedicated their lives to becoming a doctor and may now be robbed because of an unfair, irrelevant exam. I speak not of the Leaving Cert now, but of the HPAT. As a 6th year student currently sitting the Leaving Cert I am the last person who you would expect to be defending the hell that is this year. But I am. At least this test is fair to some degree. The HPAT, on the other hand, is a complete and total joke, bhuel, i mo thuairim fein !
I dunno, I just find it really upsetting to imagine people I know who have worked so hard to get a shot at medicine, only to be shot down because of a test with incredibly stupid questions that have no basis in medicine.0 -
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I didn't need to make any decent point. I said and I quote "Don't get me wrong your points make a lot of sense" I'm not disagreeing with you.
I'm saying why is everybody wasting their time complaining when they can be productive. Anyway, the fact that ACER doesn't advise candidates to take part in these pre-aptitude tests doesn't mean that there are aren't other ways to do better in the aptitude test. You can easily do better in these exams doing a lot of things such as improving your short term memory, doing quizzes etc. I know that there isn't any scientific research to back up my statement. But I'm pretty much sure that it will help you do better in the aptitude test because your building new connections in your brain which will help your spacial, short term memory etc. Which is what the HPAT is testing exactly
We could be being productive while we are complaining ! I go on boards to take a break from study every night. Its helps break up the day, and lets me vent a little about the stupid, annoying things in life. Like the HPAT!
We sure could be doing those things. I know I did crosswords, sudoku and all that kind of thing for months before the HPAT. It went fairly well, after ! My point is that I don't believe it to be a fair test of candidate's suitability for medicine, nor do I believe it is fair ! I think the Leaving Cert, or something similar to the Leaving is a far better medium in which to gauge how suited you are for medicine.I'm pretty much aware that this is an Irish website so don't assume that I don't know. I've searched the web and couldn't find much sh** on people complaning about the UMAT. :rolleyes:
You're pretty much aware this is an Irish site ? :P It is ! Just kidding. But seriously, I don't know all that much about the UMAT, I won't lie. All I know is that I really believe the HPAT to be a joke, and even worse thant that, I believe it to be an unfair joke !The UMAT exam favours intelligence types, not intelligent people or even empathetic people. The whole process is unfair and unreasonable.Sure it's true that complaining will bring change what change can you do by complaining to a load of other people in the same state as you. Anybody that disagrees should get off their ass and actually write a letter to minister of education instead of wasting their time complaining on this.
Ah sure, look. Its a public forum. People come here to discuss things. Everyone has different topics that annoy them. In my experience, most people get uppity while discussing the subjects of circumcision and grammar ! For me, the HPAT is the thing that annoys me most of all.I'm pretty much sure everybody here is doing their best to get medicine and studying their asses off. Some of us have even been throught the worst sh** they can think of. So stop complaining and get over yourself. And the questions have a lot of basis medicine. But maybe you don't understand. Being a doctor requires you to get twisted stories straight and you require question solving skills which is exactly what Section 1 and Secttion 3 is about. Section 2 is about how if you actually do care to become a doctor. Show's your empathising skills with other people. :cool:
Bull. The HPAT has caused a change in the system whereby it allows one student who may work far less than another to have a great chance of getting to study medicine. A student may get medicine without really wanting it all that much, in fact, which is quite simply not fair. I mean with the minimum points requirement being 480, a lot of people are just "putting it down for the hell of it", in the hope that they will do a great HPAT and qualify with the lowest amount of points needed. These students will beat hard-working and dedicated students to the punch. It doesn't just annoy me, it disgusts me.
Now, I wouldn't mind so much if we were talking about football or something. "Ah, sure, why would you play Cristiano Ronaldo when Park is a much harder worker ?". Makes no sense. Ronaldo is a much better player. But, I don't believe the HPAT is in any way a better representation of your aptitude for studying medicine than the Leaving. In fact, its much worse.Being a doctor requires you to get twisted stories straight and you require question solving skills which is exactly what Section 1 and Secttion 3 is about. Section 2 is about how if you actually do care to become a doctor. Show's your empathising skills with other people.
Like I said, some of the most evil people I know are brilliant at reading what other people want them to say and saying it to get on in life. These people are the people who are going to score highly in section 2. Hence it doesn't test your skill in empathising with other people, its merely a test of how well you can read what the examiner will want to hear. it doesn't mean that is how you would truly react. Imagine a typical Irish scumbag comes up against this :
"A woman faints in front of you, do you :
A. Cop a feel.
B. Kick her and steal her wallet.
C. Try and help her up.
D. Yore ma.
Now, you and I both know that, in reality, what they are likely to do in this situation is either A or B. But, in an exam situation, where they are applying to be a doctor, do you think they're going to say that ? Hell no they aren't. They are going for C all the way. Hence, its an unfair gauge of your empathy.
Section 1 and 3, fair enough they are testing your problem solving skills, but I would argue that, first of all, the hard work and dedication required to get a high score in the Leaving will serve you far better as a doctor than an ability to solve the extremely specific problems put in front of you in the HPAT.
Secondly, as I say, the problems aren't a very good gauge of your problem-solving skills anyway. They are abstract, graphical, literary problems...they aren't problems you are likely to be solving as a doctor ! I mean, if you want to be House himself, then you'd probably need good logic and reasoning, but...well firstly, this wouldn't be a good test of this. Secondly, House would fail section two anyway.
Any aptitude test for medicine that would fail House isn't worth its salt in my book, anyway ! :pac:0 -
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Damn, looks like you guys have a good bit of time on your hands, while the leaving cert is on. Because these are really long conversations and we got people writing essays on how STUPID the HPAT is and so on......
Actually if you look back even a tiny bit, about 35 pages of this thread are from before March
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I know what you mean about HOUSE. But come on your comparing reality to a TV show. But how do we know that House himself has no feelings. Just because he tries to be an ass all the time doesn't mean he's not a good guy.
:D:D:D:D
Don't get me wrong I agree with you. Although the fact that complaining HERE is not the right way to go.
I know that we all need a break from all of this but the best way to go about it is to just be positive and keep ourselves from inflicting our psychological pain on to become physical pain like House:D:D Until SOMEONE writes that special letter to the minister for education.
Never thought it would be possible looks like I'm starting to get hooked on these conversations.We could be being productive while we are complaining ! I go on boards to take a break from study every night. Its helps break up the day, and lets me vent a little about the stupid, annoying things in life. Like the HPAT!
We sure could be doing those things. I know I did crosswords, sudoku and all that kind of thing for months before the HPAT. It went fairly well, after ! My point is that I don't believe it to be a fair test of candidate's suitability for medicine, nor do I believe it is fair ! I think the Leaving Cert, or something similar to the Leaving is a far better medium in which to gauge how suited you are for medicine.
You're pretty much aware this is an Irish site ? :P It is ! Just kidding. But seriously, I don't know all that much about the UMAT, I won't lie. All I know is that I really believe the HPAT to be a joke, and even worse thant that, I believe it to be an unfair joke !
Ah sure, look. Its a public forum. People come here to discuss things. Everyone has different topics that annoy them. In my experience, most people get uppity while discussing the subjects of circumcision and grammar ! For me, the HPAT is the thing that annoys me most of all.
Bull. The HPAT has caused a change in the system whereby it allows one student who may work far less than another to have a great chance of getting to study medicine. A student may get medicine without really wanting it all that much, in fact, which is quite simply not fair. I mean with the minimum points requirement being 480, a lot of people are just "putting it down for the hell of it", in the hope that they will do a great HPAT and qualify with the lowest amount of points needed. These students will beat hard-working and dedicated students to the punch. It doesn't just annoy me, it disgusts me.
Now, I wouldn't mind so much if we were talking about football or something. "Ah, sure, why would you play Cristiano Ronaldo when Park is a much harder worker ?". Makes no sense. Ronaldo is a much better player. But, I don't believe the HPAT is in any way a better representation of your aptitude for studying medicine than the Leaving. In fact, its much worse.
Like I said, some of the most evil people I know are brilliant at reading what other people want them to say and saying it to get on in life. These people are the people who are going to score highly in section 2. Hence it doesn't test your skill in empathising with other people, its merely a test of how well you can read what the examiner will want to hear. it doesn't mean that is how you would truly react. Imagine a typical Irish scumbag comes up against this :
"A woman faints in front of you, do you :
A. Cop a feel.
B. Kick her and steal her wallet.
C. Try and help her up.
D. Yore ma.
Now, you and I both know that, in reality, what they are likely to do in this situation is either A or B. But, in an exam situation, where they are applying to be a doctor, do you think they're going to say that ? Hell no they aren't. They are going for C all the way. Hence, its an unfair gauge of your empathy.
Section 1 and 3, fair enough they are testing your problem solving skills, but I would argue that, first of all, the hard work and dedication required to get a high score in the Leaving will serve you far better as a doctor than an ability to solve the extremely specific problems put in front of you in the HPAT.
Secondly, as I say, the problems aren't a very good gauge of your problem-solving skills anyway. They are abstract, graphical, literary problems...they aren't problems you are likely to be solving as a doctor ! I mean, if you want to be House himself, then you'd probably need good logic and reasoning, but...well firstly, this wouldn't be a good test of this. Secondly, House would fail section two anyway.
Any aptitude test for medicine that would fail House isn't worth its salt in my book, anyway ! :pac:0 -
A lot of people here are complaining about how unjust it would be if someone who didnt work half as hard in the LC got medicine with the hpat over someone who did brilliantly in their leaving, but i have to say that you need to get over it. I've seen plenty of people who might not work as hard as me or study as hard as me in tests or exams, and yet still get better grades. do i complain about it? no, because its not going to do anything. its not like that person is going to try to do worse just so i can feel better and more secure.
Ok, so that person gets accepted into medicine, can't keep up with the work, hates the course, etc etc- don't you think that they've got their come-uppings for just putting down medicine for the sake of it? you don't need to point it out to them as well.
and who says that the LC is more fair than the HPAT? i don't think it necessarily is, because everyone does different subjects and everyone has different aptitudes for each subject. one person can get 600 points because they did easier subjects, and then one person could get 450 because they did difficult subjects or they weren't naturally good at that subject, for eg. in Maths, languages, etc. Fair enough, they both would have had to do at least one science subject for entry, but their other subjects may have been totally different, or one person could have been naturally better than the other in a subject. Not to mention that everyone has different teachers who could be pure crap or absolutely brilliant.
And what about all those people in schools like Leeson st. who only get into medicine because they pretty much paid their school money so as to secure a place for them in university? Sounds pretty elitist to me.
So in the end does that mean that the person who doesn't get a perfect score in their LC doesn't deserve to be a doctor, or they won't be a good doctor? The HPAT gives this person a chance to prove themselves worthy of medicine, without having to fork over money for private schools, grinds, revision courses, etc.
Believe me, I'm as worried as the rest of you about my fate in terms of if i get medicine or not, but if i don't then im just going to have to accept the fact that it was supposed to happen, that it was God's will (if you'll excuse my being pedantic about it). However i'm not just going to sit around accepting it; i'm going to do something about it. Applying for medical schools abroad is on my agenda, because i'm not going to sit idly by complaining about the system.
Anyway, i still wish you all the best when the results come out- i would hate for people who really and truly desire medicine with all their hearts to not get accepted (including me!).
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Wow, you spoke my mind:D:D:D
Lana's a girls name right? (by girls name i mean urs?):PA lot of people here are complaining about how unjust it would be if someone who didnt work half as hard in the LC got medicine with the hpat over someone who did brilliantly in their leaving, but i have to say that you need to get over it. I've seen plenty of people who might not work as hard as me or study as hard as me in tests or exams, and yet still get better grades. do i complain about it? no, because its not going to do anything. its not like that person is going to try to do worse just so i can feel better and more secure.
Ok, so that person gets accepted into medicine, can't keep up with the work, hates the course, etc etc- don't you think that they've got their come-uppings for just putting down medicine for the sake of it? you don't need to point it out to them as well.
and who says that the LC is more fair than the HPAT? i don't think it necessarily is, because everyone does different subjects and everyone has different aptitudes for each subject. one person can get 600 points because they did easier subjects, and then one person could get 450 because they did difficult subjects or they weren't naturally good at that subject, for eg. in Maths, languages, etc. Fair enough, they both would have had to do at least one science subject for entry, but their other subjects may have been totally different, or one person could have been naturally better than the other in a subject. Not to mention that everyone has different teachers who could be pure crap or absolutely brilliant.
And what about all those people in schools like Leeson st. who only get into medicine because they pretty much paid their school money so as to secure a place for them in university? Sounds pretty elitist to me.
So in the end does that mean that the person who doesn't get a perfect score in their LC doesn't deserve to be a doctor, or they won't be a good doctor? The HPAT gives this person a chance to prove themselves worthy of medicine, without having to fork over money for private schools, grinds, revision courses, etc.
Believe me, I'm as worried as the rest of you about my fate in terms of if i get medicine or not, but if i don't then im just going to have to accept the fact that it was supposed to happen, that it was God's will (if you'll excuse my being pedantic about it). However i'm not just going to sit around accepting it; i'm going to do something about it. Applying for medical schools abroad is on my agenda, because i'm not going to sit idly by complaining about the system.
Anyway, i still wish you all the best when the results come out- i would hate for people who really and truly desire medicine with all their hearts to not get accepted (including me!).0 -
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Wow, you spoke my mind:D:D:D
Lana's a girls name right? (by girls name i mean urs?):P
Lol yes its my name and so evidently its a girls name (i hope).:cool:
And at least someone has some sense to see why the hpat is a good thing, and why the leaving cert can be a load of fooey half the time!
Just hoping I do well in the HPAT because I know if I dont, my chances for medicine here are slim....stupid english paper 2 and irish paper 2 completely threw me and knocked my confidence; totally bricking it right now!
I guess medicine in Malaysia, here I come! (fingers crossed)
Or repeating......oh the horror.....don't even want to think about it right now....
Out of curiosity, anybody going to post their HPAT results up here in the 22nd? Actually, thats probably a stupid question.....:o0 -
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A lot of people here are complaining about how unjust it would be if someone who didnt work half as hard in the LC got medicine with the hpat over someone who did brilliantly in their leaving, but i have to say that you need to get over it. I've seen plenty of people who might not work as hard as me or study as hard as me in tests or exams, and yet still get better grades. do i complain about it? no, because its not going to do anything. its not like that person is going to try to do worse just so i can feel better and more secure.
Ok, so that person gets accepted into medicine, can't keep up with the work, hates the course, etc etc- don't you think that they've got their come-uppings for just putting down medicine for the sake of it? you don't need to point it out to them as well.
and who says that the LC is more fair than the HPAT? i don't think it necessarily is, because everyone does different subjects and everyone has different aptitudes for each subject. one person can get 600 points because they did easier subjects, and then one person could get 450 because they did difficult subjects or they weren't naturally good at that subject, for eg. in Maths, languages, etc. Fair enough, they both would have had to do at least one science subject for entry, but their other subjects may have been totally different, or one person could have been naturally better than the other in a subject. Not to mention that everyone has different teachers who could be pure crap or absolutely brilliant.
And what about all those people in schools like Leeson st. who only get into medicine because they pretty much paid their school money so as to secure a place for them in university? Sounds pretty elitist to me.
So in the end does that mean that the person who doesn't get a perfect score in their LC doesn't deserve to be a doctor, or they won't be a good doctor? The HPAT gives this person a chance to prove themselves worthy of medicine, without having to fork over money for private schools, grinds, revision courses, etc.
Believe me, I'm as worried as the rest of you about my fate in terms of if i get medicine or not, but if i don't then im just going to have to accept the fact that it was supposed to happen, that it was God's will (if you'll excuse my being pedantic about it). However i'm not just going to sit around accepting it; i'm going to do something about it. Applying for medical schools abroad is on my agenda, because i'm not going to sit idly by complaining about the system.
Anyway, i still wish you all the best when the results come out- i would hate for people who really and truly desire medicine with all their hearts to not get accepted (including me!).
Best post I have read so far, I may just have to troll around whichever board you are in just so I can be your friend -puppy dog eyes- Give in to my innate adorableness! I'm really interested in meeting everyone, IF I get accepted, in the medicine course. I wonder if they'll be gloriously brilliant, interesting and if I'll be able to learn from them, I always find meeting new people is a great way to learn new things, each person has different ideas, knowledge that I'd love to add to my own! One of the main reasons why I want to do medicine is to learn more about everything, and since you meet new people almost everyday on the job (albeit in bad form) I hope I can just make a difference (I sound like such an after-dinner special) -.- I'm gonna go sulk after putting myself into a cliche. Doesn't anyone else agree with me/disagree? I'll recheck after the 19th ^_^ and then 3days of everyone freaking out, and then on the 22nd it'll be people posting their results and freaking out even more. Oh the competition!
Oh btw, what do people feel about cheaters? I'm really glad the HPAT is in cause there is 0% of cheating what-so-ever!!!! So add that to the pro list of the HPAT exam.[Even if rules and regulations have been set up for cheating, examinees still manage to find a way and people share ideas and etc... so anyone saying you can't cheat in the leaving is v.mistaken, really irks me if someone (and I know someone) that has been cheating beat me in a subjects that I do well in because of cheating. (dont forget 1 cheater could knock you out of the grading quota. I'm a sceptic for these 'systems')0 -
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Lol yes its my name and so evidently its a girls name (i hope).:cool:
And at least someone has some sense to see why the hpat is a good thing, and why the leaving cert can be a load of fooey half the time!
Just hoping I do well in the HPAT because I know if I dont, my chances for medicine here are slim....stupid english paper 2 and irish paper 2 completely threw me and knocked my confidence; totally bricking it right now!
I guess medicine in Malaysia, here I come! (fingers crossed)
Or repeating......oh the horror.....don't even want to think about it right now....
Out of curiosity, anybody going to post their HPAT results up here in the 22nd? Actually, thats probably a stupid question.....:o
Medicine in Malaysia:eek: I rather repeat the year. yea my chances are pretty slim if i don't get a B in app maths and a B in physics i'm screwed because of the maths paper and biology :mad:
I'll post my results up (if i did good)
Not a long summer ahead looks like i'll be getting drunk most of the time if i do **** in HPAT 0
This discussion has been closed.
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