What future for the right in a social democratic America ?

RedPlanet

Speaking of Healthcare, this is something to keep an eye on:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14986-worlds-largest-health-system-rejects-free-market.html?DCMP=ILC-hmts&nsref=news2_head_dn14986

Spaceman Spiff

obl wrote: »

We pay taxes towards these services. A black hole would be less effective in getting rid of those tax euros. In that sense, why the hell would they want their tax dollars wasted on something like that.

Because they're paying more than everybody else in the world despite not having everybody covered.

And benefit the country at large? Sorry, but last time I checked, the majority of people were employed and healthy.

Healthy is a somewhat relative term. Compared to the third world, yes, they're very healthy. Compared to the Western World, no they are not, especially for the amount of money they put into it.

Not to mention with a universal healthcare system in place, it would remove the largest cost to employers (insurance premiums).

And Americans, quite rightly, won't be taxed for a health institution whose European counterparts are largely jokes.

Actually, the average American, who do not have universal health care, pays more in tax towards public healthcare initiatives than the average Canadian (who have universal healthcare). This is all on top of the $5K per person (which includes the uninsured) it costs to get private insurance.

Seems like a wonderful return on their investment.

Manic Moran

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

For example, one indicator of a population's health care is infant mortality rate, and America ranks below many European nations. For example:

As ever, there are many other factors which can lead to death in children than whether or not they have access to a good hospital. Maybe we have more swimming pools per capita in our back yards than Ireland has that kids drown in. Maybe we have more unmarried teen crack addict mothers who don't take care of their kids than Switzerland. Perhaps we have more car accidents infants get killed in because we drive a lot more. This country has plenty enough sociological problems that everyone is so fond of pointing out, which can contribute.

The problem with the healthcare system isn't the quality of care. The doctors and medicines are not bad at all. The problem is with the financing therof, and not least the incredibly convoluted number of forms which one has to deal with. You can generally get critical healthcare, you just end up broke afterwards. Obviously something that needs fixing. I miss the old VHI subscription sheet.

NTM

Black Swan

Manic Moran wrote: »

Maybe we have more swimming pools per capita in our back yards than Ireland has that kids drown in.

I wonder how many of the 47 million medically uninsured Americans have swimming pools?

Manic Moran wrote: »

You can generally get critical healthcare, you just end up broke afterwards. Obviously something that needs fixing.

Well, if all 47 million uninsured Americans had health insurance, wouldn't that make a significant difference in terms of the nation's health (as well as their economic status)?

On a similar issue, during the recall election, soon to become Republican Governator Arnie said that all children in California should have health insurance guaranteed by the state (if their parents could not afford it); i.e., that the health of children was important to the future of California. What do you think?

Hobbes

Manic Moran wrote: »

The problem with the healthcare system isn't the quality of care.

Until you have experienced it in other countries it is hard to have a baseline. I found it not to be the case at all. First your put into a long waiting line to prove you have insurance, after that then the waiting times to see a doctor/etc are pretty much the same as Ireland.

After that you then have to put up with the double billing and other messing around with the insurance company/hospital. Even with insurance a broken arm was 4 times more expensive then if I had broken it in Ireland.

Of all the countries I have had to get medical care in South Korea still ranks one of the top for speed, price.

Manic Moran

Your mileage may vary. I've suffered under US (Civilian and military), Irish, and Italian healthcare facilities. There's no doubt that the US system is far more confusing, but once you have it sorted out, it seems to have worked for me.

NTM

BenjAii

Republican fears of historic Obama landslide unleash civil war for the future of the party
Senior Republicans believe that John McCain is doomed to a landslide defeat which will hand Barack Obama more political power than any president in a generation.


Interesting article in The Telegraph echoing the original premise in this thread, that the American right are heading for a generational wipeout & reshaping of American politics on progressive lines.

We'll see, I'm never comfortable believing polls no matter how could they look for either side. However if what they indicate does hold true, I'm convinced this thesis is correct, the Republicans are facing a time in the Wilderness, as did the UK's Tories post 97.

Trojan

BenjAii wrote: »

Interesting article in The Telegraph echoing the original premise in this thread, that the American right are heading for a generational wipeout & reshaping of American politics on progressive lines.

Hopefully so. The Christian-fundamentalist, anti-intellectual movement is very scary.