Premiership Player Draft - Discussion Only

whatawaster

Tauren wrote: »

Nah - At times last season, and the season before, Cole was fantastic. utterly fantastic - standing out and lasting in a superstar team, a team that felt they could do without both Duff and Robben

Duff is past his best and Robben had terrible problems with injuries.
Duff from 2002 in a team that good would be frightening. Apart from Ronaldo i don't think there was a better player at that world cup, every time he would beat his man and play a dangerous ball into Keane or Quinn.
Cole is a great player though.

Bubs101

whatawaster wrote: »

Duff is past his best and Robben had terrible problems with injuries.
Duff from 2002 in a team that good would be frightening. Apart from Ronaldo i don't think there was a better player at that world cup, every time he would beat his man and play a dangerous ball into Keane or Quinn.
Cole is a great player though.

The reason I picked Cole ahead of those two is because I felt that both Robben and Duff were really really good at running at people but I felt that Cole while good at that as well had a playmaker aspect to him as well that the other two didn't

As for the Duff vs. Robben argument, I would choose Robben because there were times when he would win us games single handedly which Duff rarely did

Dont be at yourself

For me, Carvalho and Radabe have been the stand-out picks in the last few rounds. Two exceptional players, who could arguably make an all-time Premiership XI.

titan18

I was hoping Radebe would fall to me for my next pick and did people forget about Lee Dixon as he should have gone before this.Considering Petrescu was picked over him

Xavi6

Yeah I was hoping to team Radebe up with Carvalho with my next pick. Disappointing.

Mr.Nice Guy

Like Tauren, I'd like clarity on the whole 'player in the prime' issue. When we make a pick do we get that player at the peak of his powers?

It does state in the rules that a player is assessed on the basis of how good he was in the Premiership which would lead me to believe that the positive attributes of the player are taken into account and not the negatives. Is that the case?

LuckyLloyd

Tauren wrote: »

also this is bugging me.

In the initial rules it states a player will be judged over his time in the prem, and prem only. It does not say we get to pick and chose the period of their prem play we judge them on. There are a number of players who have had a fantastic season and then been average after. If you pick one of these players can you base it only on the season they were fantastic and ignore the rest?

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Like Tauren, I'd like clarity on the whole 'player in the prime' issue. When we make a pick do we get that player at the peak of his powers?

It does state in the rules that a player is assessed on the basis of how good he was in the Premiership which would lead me to believe that the positive attributes of the player are taken into account and not the negatives. Is that the case?

You are taking a player's entire impact on the premiership. As such, if a guy has one world class season and four average or worse seasons then I would say he is no more than a slightly above average player for the purposes of this process. As I said earlier, the 40 game rule is simply there to make it workable because of the large amount of players that need to be drafted.

But if we were doing a peak draft I would have specifically stated as such - and it would have been probably a pick three best seasons rather than take a single season.

Taking peaks is silly, because the smaller the data sample the narrower the disparity between players becomes. If we were doing 'take one season' plus 'negative qualities are ignored' then essentially RVN = Drogba. When in reality, and assessing overall impact, RVN >>>>>>>> Drogba.

I hope that clears things up.

Mr.Nice Guy

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You are taking a player's entire impact on the premiership. As such, if a guy has one world class season and four average or worse seasons then I would say he is no more than a slightly above average player for the purposes of this process. As I said earlier, the 40 game rule is simply there to make it workable because of the large amount of players that need to be drafted.

But if we were doing a peak draft I would have specifically stated as such - and it would have been probably a pick three best seasons rather than take a single season.

Taking peaks is silly, because the smaller the data sample the narrower the disparity between players becomes. If we were doing 'take one season' plus 'negative qualities are ignored' then essentially RVN = Drogba. When in reality, and assessing overall impact, RVN >>>>>>>> Drogba.

I hope that clears things up.

Fair enough but doesn't this present problems? I mean a guy like Fernando Torres is a better pick than someone like Thierry Henry since Henry began to wane in the latter stages of his Arsenal run whereas Torres is still on fire. Most would surely argue though that Henry is a better Premiership pick than Torres.

It seems like under this system we're better off going for modern day star names who just beat out the 40+ limit since there is no 'wane' period which will be the case for the majority of past stars picked.

Also a guy like David James who had a very bad spell a few years ago becomes an inferior pick to a modern day keeper.

I'm just really thankful I didn't go for Duff now I know all this. :pac:

mayordenis

I don't think it's an exact science - I was under the impression it would be some sort of vote for the best team of premiership players, and that the voters would be guided to vote based on the complete history of the players in the premier league.

I think it's not as easy as theirry Henry (whos stats I'm just going to make up as vagueries) say he scored 150 in 7 seasons or something - and had 5 brilliant season, one below his best and 1 shoddy injury ridden season.
Wheras Torres has a had 1 brilliant season and thats it.

I think everyone would say that Henry is the winner there as of now.

mayordenis

Bruno cheyrou had a 3 game spell were he was dynamite.

Xavi6

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It does state in the rules that a player is assessed on the basis of how good he was in the Premiership which would lead me to believe that the positive attributes of the player are taken into account and not the negatives. Is that the case?

If it was I'd have picked Marcus Stewart ages ago!

Mitch Connor

Xavi6 wrote: »

If it was I'd have picked Marcus Stewart ages ago!

:eek:Ban for Xavi and mayordenis! Mentioning players before they are picked! Stewart was going to be my next pick - he better still be there!!:mad::mad:

LuckyLloyd

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Fair enough but doesn't this present problems? I mean a guy like Fernando Torres is a better pick than someone like Thierry Henry since Henry began to wane in the latter stages of his Arsenal run whereas Torres is still on fire. Most would surely argue though that Henry is a better Premiership pick than Torres.

It seems like under this system we're better off going for modern day star names who just beat out the 40+ limit since there is no 'wane' period which will be the case for the majority of past stars picked.

Also a guy like David James who had a very bad spell a few years ago becomes an inferior pick to a modern day keeper.

I'm just really thankful I didn't go for Duff now I know all this. :pac:

Eh, I really disagree with that. If we're taking entire influence on the premiership then Henry >>>>>>>>>>>>> Torres and it isn't remotely close. Henry had a consecutive five season stretch which is as good or better than what Torres achieved last year. The fact that he began to decline in his last season is irrelevant - when he was an elite striker over a big run of games.

Torres has been an elite striker over only 40 games. "Wane" isn't an issue. Henry has had a much, much greater impact on the premiership to date.

Duff has been bad for a while now. But he had about four to five great seasons under his belt. If you picked Duff, you need to convince me why you should be expected those good years as opposed to the injury laden bad years. For me, that is what the whole thing is supposed to be about:

Make a pick and do a writeup in which you explain why your player is good and why you should be expected to get an awesome hypothetical performance from him. Make your case and then people will vote at the end on who they think has the better team.

So for Henry, the meat of his premiership career is a five year stretch of godliness. Duff is getting closer every year to an effective split in his career between being a very good player and a decidedly average one. In my view, the challenge if you took him is to argue that the reason the second half has been poor is because of bad luck in respect to injuries...etc, etc.

eirebhoy

Bubs101 wrote: »

As for the Duff vs. Robben argument, I would choose Robben because there were times when he would win us games single handedly which Duff rarely did

Duff was easily Chelsea's key man in their first season. I'd say things might have been a lot different if he didn't get injured. Also remember when Duff broke into the team after injury under Mourinho. Himself and Robben were running riot. Duff was first scorer in 6 games in a 9 game period and I remember at the time being shocked that Robben was voted potm when Duff was easily the better of the 2 imo. I'm biased but I think Robben was always favoured by a lot of the fans because he was so young in his first season in the premiership. In fact Hansen called anyone mad if they thought Ronaldo was better than Robben.

btw, if Duff's last couple of seasons are equally weighted along with his good ones then Robben wins hands down but there's a few players picked that had poor seasons when past their prime...

whatawaster

I had assumed you were getting the player at their peak, and how good a pick it was depended on 1) how good that peak was and 2) how long they stayed at it or close to it.
If it's not on that basis then a player like Robbie Fowler, it could be argued, was picked far too early. He's definitely had more bad than good seasons, though he was injured all the time.
Duff, on the other hand has had many more good than bad seasons.

Wreck

Pick made and pm sent. Toughest pick for me so far, couldn't decide what type of player to go with, but in the end I'm delighted to have Hendry to partner Radebe in defence.

whatawaster

Wreck wrote: »

Pick made and pm sent. Toughest pick for me so far, couldn't decide what type of player to go with, but in the end I'm delighted to have Hendry to partner Radebe in defence.

Great pick. Hendry was definitely one i was hoping people would forget. But how could anyone forget a head like that.

Xavi6

Yeah Hendry's another from my shortlist.

Glad to see people goin old skool!

Trippie

Was everyone else hoping radebe would fly under the radar. I should of picked him when I had the chance at the rate goalkeepers are going I still could of picked up a decent one by the time I get to pick again

Mr.Nice Guy

Balls, I was hoping Hamann would fly under the radar. Nice pick.

RasTa

Is this the AA round?

eZe^

Think you could make an exception on the 40 league appearances for Man Utd's old Dong? He is just the epitome of legend.

Necronomicon

Some good picks this round, most notably Radebe, Anelka and Petit. Can't believe Radebe wasn't even on my radar, didn't think of him at all.

Smegball

Petit is a quality choice. Terrific player

Wreck

Petit is an excellent pick, was toying with picking him myself, and I had to lol at Hamann getting picked ahead of him.


Edit: Woah, I used the word 'pick', or variations thereof three times in one sentence. Time to invest in a thesaurus methinks.

titan18

All my shortlist is getting picked.Stop it now.

Smegball

Have to say these Draft threads are by far and away the most interesting threads in a long long time.. excellent idea.

Trippie

Smegball wrote: »

Have to say these Draft threads are by far and away the most interesting threads in a long long time.. excellent idea.

Have you not been to feedback tonight?

LuckyLloyd

titan18 wrote: »

All my shortlist is getting picked.Stop it now.

THIS!

Updated the spreadsheet. Have to say, enjoyed catching up with the picks thread there - some decent write ups, pics and youtube clips. Good job folks.

Secondly, people are beginning to draft really well imo. The only position in which there has been a couple of reaches and it stands out is goalkeeper imo. Not that Cuidicini and Martyn are bad players of course, but I think there is still better available. Worth noting how Xavi has put together an awesome center back pairing with the 65th and 80th picks. I also thought that Frisbee got close to the two best players available with his double pick there. Anelka has character issues, no doubt. But if you are bringing him in with a solid, winning pro and can keep a tough edge to your final team - he's fine. He does score goals consistently.

Unfortunately, the last twenty picks have killed my dream of an all French team. Time for Plan B imo.

Frisbee

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

. I also thought that Frisbee got close to the two best players available with his double pick there. Anelka has character issues, no doubt. But if you are bringing him in with a solid, winning pro and can keep a tough edge to your final team - he's fine. He does score goals consistently.

Oh stop it your embarrassing me...

Also dynamite pick there Xavi, Southgate certainly isn't someone I would have thought to pick, but purely because I forgot all about him. Great CB and :ohe model professional.

titan18

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

THIS!

Updated the spreadsheet. Have to say, enjoyed catching up with the picks thread there - some decent write ups, pics and youtube clips. Good job folks.

Secondly, people are beginning to draft really well imo. The only position in which there has been a couple of reaches and it stands out is goalkeeper imo. Not that Cuidicini and Martyn are bad players of course, but I think there is still better available. Worth noting how Xavi has put together an awesome center back pairing with the 65th and 80th picks. I also thought that Frisbee got close to the two best players available with his double pick there. Anelka has character issues, no doubt. But if you are bringing him in with a solid, winning pro and can keep a tough edge to your final team - he's fine. He does score goals consistently.

Unfortunately, the last twenty picks have killed my dream of an all French team. Time for Plan B imo.

I dont understand the 'this' comment at all

Bubs101

I thought Martin is a great pick. Apart from his talent he had a remarkably consistent career with arguably his best year coming at the end of his career with Everton

eirebhoy

Frisbee wrote: »

Also dynamite pick there Xavi, Southgate certainly isn't someone I would have thought to pick, but purely because I forgot all about him. Great CB and :ohe model professional.

Jaysus you can't be doing enough research if you didn't think of Southgate. He's in the top 10 all time appearances list.

LuckyLloyd

titan18 wrote: »

I dont understand the 'this' comment at all

It was just my way of saying I agreed with your post 100%. Was going to type pretty much the same thing - plenty of players I wanted taken in the last 20 picks.

Wreck

lol I was just about to report the latest pick as spam until I saw the sig. Surprising pick this early imo.

Frisbee

Toure is an ok pick.
However you said he has good positional sense.
He really doesn't. He's got a lot of the headless chicken about him...

titan18

how do i get the video to work

LuckyLloyd

titan18 wrote: »

how do i get the video to work

on the youtube page, don't copy and paste the link in your internet browser. Instead copy and paste the link in the "embed" column on the right side of your screen.

titan18

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

on the youtube page, don't copy and paste the link in your internet browser. Instead copy and paste the link in the "embed" column on the right side of your screen.

thanks

Mitch Connor

Wreck wrote: »

lol I was just about to report the latest pick as spam until I saw the sig. Surprising pick this early imo.

needed a CB and the ones I wanted were gone.

eagle eye

Theres been no pick in 24 hours, who is next up?

Trippie

Janets on clubs is up next i believe

Trippie

yet again no pick so NekkidBibleMan is up next

Idu

Pick made and PM sent.

Apologies for the delay but I had no internet access over the weekend

Xavi6

Bozzie is a solid pick. One I thought might fly under the radar.

There's still one keeper I'm surprised hasn't been picked up yet.

shoutman

I think there is more then one keeper who will generally be regarded as a solid pick.

Hopefully the pace of this will pick up with people doing it in work or whatever.

Dont be at yourself

Pick made!

Xavi6

An excellent choice. Another one gonski from my shortlist.

Necronomicon

Pick made, but isn't Eirebear still on holidays? No pm sent, not sure if I'm supposed to skip E.B.

Xavi6

I'd PM him and also the person after him.

Quick question on Poyet. Why on the right wing? Surely he got most of goals playing the 'Lampard role' for Chelsea?