Premiership Player Draft - Discussion Only

LuckyLloyd

ditpoker wrote: »

Mr. Nice Guys' 5 picks so far are pretty awesome! Carrick is a steal!!! he was next in line for me, was hoping to pick him up in round 5... he'd be on my team sheet ahead of gerrard or lampard. Carrick is AWESOME.

Frisbee

ditpoker wrote: »

Mr. Nice Guys' 5 picks so far are pretty awesome! Carrick is a steal!!! he was next in line for me, was hoping to pick him up in round 5... he'd be on my team sheet ahead of gerrard or lampard. Carrick is AWESOME.

Joke?

Bubs101

whatawaster wrote: »

i'll make a note of that for the Serie A draft that will inevitably follow this

Hard to say how up I'd be for a Football Italia era Serie A draft

shoutman

Jeff, you're level of football knowledge truely astounds me. Part of me thinks your whole performance in this thread is one huge level.

Xavi6

Done and done. Delighted with my forward line.

Frisbee

Xavi6 wrote: »

Done and done. Delighted with my forward line.

Some I had certainly considered and one of the only players to be picked that I had on my list in a while.
Good Pick.

Frisbee

Damn you Mitch Alonso was my next pick

Mitch Connor

i'm surprised he wasn't already gone - though maybe his last season counted against him.

Frisbee

Mitch Connor wrote: »

i'm surprised he wasn't already gone - though maybe his last season counted against him.

I had three player sin mind for my last pick.
Winterburn, Alonso and someone else.
Thought Alonso might make it through

Mr.Nice Guy

ditpoker wrote:

he'd be on my team sheet ahead of gerrard or lampard

All of you giving the guy stick for that comment should take a look at this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6jqE4rMejw

"You're looking at the midfield today of Lampard, Gerrard, Carrick, you'd think it would be Lampard or Gerrard who would or probably should grab the headlines but Michael Carrick was absolutely magnificent."

Compare Carrick to Lampard and Gerrard in terms of individual ability and he isn't as good. I would accept that. However he brings a different style of football to a game and in that sense I wouldn't say it's a far-fetched claim to say you'd put him on your team sheet ahead of Gerrard or Lampard. It depends on the style of football you're going for. Carrick was named Man of the Match against Germany and I'm sure is now very much in Capello's thoughts. Lampard and Gerrard, great as they are, perhaps are not best suited to Capello's system.

In terms of what I'm looking for from my team, Carrick is the best option available. The only other guy who came close was the one just picked, Alonso, but I would argue Carrick has contributed more than Alonso in terms of overall Premiership impact.

Mitch Connor

Carrick can't dominate a game or dictate tempo. He is extrememely important to United and our success, but he needs other players to hustle in midfield and help him pass the ball around.

Mr.Nice Guy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Carrick can't dominate a game or dictate tempo. He is extrememely important to United and our success, but he needs other players to hustle in midfield and help him pass the ball around.

I would certainly agree he needs help from a hustler in midfield and in terms of dominating a game, well he can't impose himself through his mere presence that is a fair comment. However I would strongly disagree that he can't dictate tempo. I'd say this is one of his most underrated strengths. As for needing help to pass the ball around, that's ridiculous. He's one of the best passers of the ball in the league!

Mitch Connor

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I would certainly agree he needs help from a hustler in midfield and in terms of dominating a game, well he can't impose himself through his mere presence that is a fair comment. However I would strongly disagree that he can't dictate tempo. I'd say this is one of his most underrated strengths. As for needing help to pass the ball around, that's ridiculous. He's one of the best passers of the ball in the league!

He's a great passer, but if he doesn't have people helping him control the midfield he doesn't get the space he needs, and he can perform poorly when pressured and lacking space. When he has the time he needs to pick out a pass he is fantastic, but he needs help to get that time. As for dictating the tempo, countless games in europe have shown he can't do that consistently. As the hub of a dominating midfield he is brilliant, but he is not the player to give that domination.

mayordenis

Carrick is an incredibly limited player,
the only thing he has in his locker is passing, and to be quite honest he's not an unbelievable passer of the ball, not a Pirlo or Alonso, even Gerrard and Lampard are better in this department week in week out.
He does nothing else of not so his passing seems great compared to his lack of any other facet in his game.
I'm still shocked he's been taken tbh.

Mitch Connor

mayordenis wrote: »

Carrick is an incredibly limited player,
the only thing he has in his locker is passing, and to be quite honest he's not an unbelievable passer of the ball, not a Pirlo or Alonso, even Gerrard and Lampard are better in this department week in week out.
He does nothing else of not so his passing seems great compared to his lack of any other facet in his game.
I'm still shocked he's been taken tbh.

i'd put alonso above him in terms of passing, but I would put Carrick above Gerrard and Lampard, given his more intelligent use of the ball, too many glory balls from the other two. When they come off they are spectacular, but they do try them a lot. His positional awareness in a 442 and ability to actually play in a 442 is also way above Lampard and Gerrard (both are AMCs imo so that is only natural) he is a different type of player to both Lampard and Gerrard so I think the comparison is a poorly grounded one to begin with.

RasTa

Who is Mitch Connor and why is he picking players or am I going blind?

Frisbee

RasTa wrote: »

Who is Mitch Connor and why is he picking players or am I going blind?

He's the new and improved Tauren

Mitch Connor

Frisbee wrote: »

He's the new and improved Tauren

SSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Frisbee

Mitch Connor wrote: »

SSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Oh crap! Sorry!
I mean. Eh..
Tauren is a guy who photographs Mitch Connor during his heroic exploits.
Thats why you never see them in the same place at the same time!
Yeah, that's believable!

Mr.Nice Guy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He's a great passer, but if he doesn't have people helping him control the midfield he doesn't get the space he needs, and he can perform poorly when pressured and lacking space. When he has the time he needs to pick out a pass he is fantastic, but he needs help to get that time. As for dictating the tempo, countless games in europe have shown he can't do that consistently. As the hub of a dominating midfield he is brilliant, but he is not the player to give that domination.

I agree totally he can't dominate alone but I'd say having Petit beside him, as is the case in my team, would be a good foil and allow him to do what he does best, pick out passes. Barry did a similar job in the England friendly against Germany in which Carrick starred. I think Carrick's ability to dictate tempo is understated. He played a big part in United's European campaign and while he wasn't a starring player he nonetheless played his part well.

mayordenis wrote:

Carrick is an incredibly limited player,
the only thing he has in his locker is passing, and to be quite honest he's not an unbelievable passer of the ball, not a Pirlo or Alonso, even Gerrard and Lampard are better in this department week in week out.
He does nothing else of not so his passing seems great compared to his lack of any other facet in his game.
I'm still shocked he's been taken tbh.

I'm shocked anyone could think this. If he was an incredibly limited player he wouldn't have managed 52 and 48 games for United in the past two seasons respectively (including 33 and 31 league games). You could see how much he was missed this season in the games he was absent from.

To say Carrick has only passing in his locker is myopic. He can read the game as well as anybody, has plenty of energy to be able to instigate attacks as well as sit back when necessary, and he's not overawed by a big occasion. I think for the job he does he does it with aplomb.

As for not him not being an Alonso, I would agree. I think he's better. Alonso went through a woeful spell last season where Benitez was asking him - in public in fact - to prove himself, and he was seemingly on his way out the door had Barry been signed. I'm not aware of an effort on the part of Fergie to offload Carrick. Why would he anyway? He's been consistent. 48 appearances last season in a European and Premiership winning campaign. That'll do nicely.

I'll add it's very easy to dismiss great players with the 'limited' tag. I could say Makelele is a limited player since he does little beyond sit in front and protect the back four, however this would do a disservice to a terrific player. He does the role he's asked to do brilliantly. So too does Carrick.

Besides, having passing as your star quality is surely not a bad thing. I'm guessing Irish fans aren't clamouring for the return of Andy Reid for his marvellous athleticism!

Xavi6

Alonso > Carrick imo

wardie

Xavi6 wrote: »

Alonso > Carrick imo

+1

Mitch Connor

On top form, yeah. And though i have picked Alonso, I would say Carrick has been better in his time for United than Alonso has been over the same period for Liverpool. At the moment there isn't much to chose between them. Over their prem careers - I would give it to Alonso, so for the purposes of this draft i would agree that Alonso is better than Carrick. (kinda the same argument over Alonso/Barry in the summer - both players on top form, Alonso easily, but based on last season Barry was the better player.)

shoutman

Please please please can we stop mentioning players who haven't been picked yet!

Frisbee

shoutman wrote: »

Please please please can we stop mentioning players who haven't been picked yet!

Agreed. My heart is jumping into my mouth everytime someone decides to mention someone that hasn't been picked that's on my shortlist.

It wasn't so bad in the first few rounds when everyone was gunning for the same players. But as the game progresses and people are hoping others will not notice hidden gems, as I'm sure we all are, someone who picked a player in the same position as a player on your shortlist, who decides to compare them.

I reckon we should introduce a system for penalizing people who do this.
Like their pick gets pushed back three places or so.

Xavi6

Jeez it's bad enough getting people to make picks as it is without penalising people. That'd slow down the process even more.

+1 to not mentioning players though.

Bubs101

Mitch Connor is an awesome name btw. One of the best episodes ever.

Realistically, mentioning names is starting to really matter now. It's not like the earlier rounds where the top names were clear for everyone to see

eirebhoy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Carrick can't dominate a game or dictate tempo. He is extrememely important to United and our success, but he needs other players to hustle in midfield and help him pass the ball around.

No different to Alonso, Pirlo, Xavi and probably most pure playmakers.

Dont be at yourself

I'm very happy with my pick, despite his relative lack of Premiership experience. I think my midfield is looking fairly strong, hopefully I can bring in a top-class left-winger to complete the puzzle.

titan18

I'm very happy with my pick.His level of performance throughout his time with Bolton has been fantastic, and he has kept them in a lot of games.

Mr.Nice Guy

titan18 wrote: »

I'm very happy with my pick.His level of performance throughout his time with Bolton has been fantastic, and he has kept them in a lot of games.

A good pick and a brave pick. I figured people would mainly go with better-known goalkeepers rather than the steady, reliable variety.

eirebhoy

That's the keeper I was saying his manager (Allerdyce) said is the best in the premiership a couple of years ago. Good pick. I know a manager is always going to back his own players but to be even in with a chance of being the best in the premiership with early picks like Cech and Given still around he can't be too bad.

shoutman

Jussi was my next pick, thought he'd be going soon, underrated in his prime imo.

Eirebear

Looks like i missed out on my goalkeper in Jussi!

Ah well im back now, and i reckon Niemi will do me well.

Bubs101

Wasn't Necronomicon next or is that the pick from the round before that you missed.

Eirebear

Bubs101 wrote: »

Wasn't Necronomicon next or is that the pick from the round before that you missed.

Its the one i missed from the round before mate, sorry i should have put that into the text

Xavi6

Niemi and Jussi are both top picks.

Necronomicon

Was Eirebear supposed to get two picks because of missing the last round, or am I up?

Mitch Connor

Necronomicon wrote: »

Was Eirebear supposed to get two picks because of missing the last round, or am I up?

you are up now - eirebear will e up again in a pick or two.

Necronomicon

Done and done, over to Bubs. PM sent.

Mitch Connor

Necronomicon wrote: »

Done and done, over to Bubs. PM sent.

got my poster names mixed up - it is Eirebear up now, not Bubs.

Wreck

Argh, I can't believe this. I was trying to decide between Niemi and Jussi for my last pick before I realised Solskjaer was still available. I figured there was achance that at least one of the two keepers might be available for me next time

Both top quality picks at this stage imo.

Eirebear

Am i up again?

Xavi6

Yup. Then PM Bubs when you're done.

RasTa

Feck sake I wanted berbs for a bit of height and ability to slow a game down, would have being perfect for my team.

Awful pick for your team, pick another.

LuckyLloyd

Updated the spreadsheet there. I've decided that after this round I'll give my thoughts on everyone's team (cause why not!! ). So I won't say too much about the recent picks, except that I think Eirebear took the next best keeper available in Niemi and that from here on in the dropoff in that position is quite significant.

Also, glad to see that things are running much more smoothly at present.

shoutman

It would be cool if we started a thread and everyone posted once in it with their current team layout etc... Have it like the draft pick thread where there is no conversation just a list of the teams etc.

Frisbee

Cahill was someon I thought I might pick up if I was stuck near the end. Bit early to be picking him in this round..

Eirebear

Frisbee wrote: »

Cahill was someon I thought I might pick up if I was stuck near the end. Bit early to be picking him in this round..

I rate him fairly highly to be honest, definetly a player who can cause any team trouble on his day.

eirebhoy

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

except that I think Eirebear took the next best keeper available in Niemi and that from here on in the dropoff in that position is quite significant.

Surely there's 1 keeper left at the standard of a lot of those picked? I'm very surprised a certain keeper hasn't been picked yet. Maybe he's not rated as highly as I thought.