Premiership Player Draft - Discussion Only

Mr.Nice Guy

Bollocks, the last two picks have scuppered my plans. :mad:

genericgoon

Frisbee wrote: »

Wiltord is a great pick. Someone I was hoping to get in around 2 picks or so.
He was my favourite Arsenal player for a long time

Agree, Wiltord is great value for this stage. Quality player even if I remember that goal against us.

Mitch Connor

Was really hoping to pick up Waddle next. Bugger. Fantastic pick imo. Sure, he wasn't at his very best, but he did win the FWA Player of the Year in 92/93.

Frisbee

Rosicky?
That guy plays football?
Oh yea.... I think I remember a time when that used to happen... :pac::mad::pac:

Dont be at yourself

I know, I know! Still, he has shown his quality when he has been on the pitch for Arsenal and hopefully he'll pick up where he left off when he comes back.

I reckon left-wing is going to be a problem position. I had two other players for the position who I was toying with, but after that there seems to me to be a serious drop-off in quality.

Bubs101

Picking rosicky is like picking Veron, the guys has oodles of talent but he has yet to show it here.

Wiltord is an absolutely fantastic player. I'm ashamed to say I forgot him completely but had I remembered there's a good chance I would have picked him ages ago. Would have suited NBM and my formations

Frisbee

Bubs101 wrote: »

Picking rosicky is like picking Veron, the guys has oodles of talent but he has yet to show it here.

Wiltord is an absolutely fantastic player. I'm ashamed to say I forgot him completely but had I remembered there's a good chance I would have picked him ages ago. Would have suited NBM and my formations

I'd disagree with you on Rosicky not showing his talent. He has, but he's been injured so long everyone's forgotten. (his return has been pushed back to march now FYI :mad:)

Wiltord was on my shortlist, although there are still a few players I can replace him with...
I'd rather have Sylvain though, he was a legend...

Xavi6

Wiltord was on my shortlist of wingers.

I'm not sold on the idea of Waddle. I had strongly considered him but his career was finishing up really when the PL started. Can see why he was picked though.

Frisbee

I fcuking love Sylvain Wiltord...

Bubs101

Lack of Mullet = lack of abilty

Eirebear

Xavi6 wrote: »

Wiltord was on my shortlist of wingers.

I'm not sold on the idea of Waddle. I had strongly considered him but his career was finishing up really when the PL started. Can see why he was picked though.

He got the writers player of the year at Wednesday in his first(?) season there.
His class was still there for all to see, and he managed 4 full seasons in the top flight.

Yeah, he had better days before the premiership, but i still think he was a joy to watch.

mayordenis

Tomas Rosicky with 44 league games 9 goals and 5 assists - I'll be honest I didn't think he'd be picked at all in this.

Mitch Connor

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

I know, I know! Still, he has shown his quality when he has been on the pitch for Arsenal and hopefully he'll pick up where he left off when he comes back.

I reckon left-wing is going to be a problem position. I had two other players for the position who I was toying with, but after that there seems to me to be a serious drop-off in quality.

He has shown quality, but the ways things are right now, it can be easily argued that he is a bad pick - he'll miss the half the games he could play for you because of injury problems. In 2 and a half seasons he has only managed 44 games; he will have to be seen as an injury prone player and his contribution to your team will have to take that in to account.

Necronomicon

Delighted I managed to get Wiltord. In the last round it was between him and Berg, and I felt there were less full-backs than wingers left which swung it.

Boateng, Gilberto and Tugay are good picks. For some reason when it comes to CM I keep coming up blank and missing the likes of them. Waddle is a player I have to admit I can't remember too well. As for Rosicky, quality player no doubt but he has to have one of the least amount of appearances of players so far, so he's still somewhat of an unknown quantity.

Bubs101

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He has shown quality, but the ways things are right now, it can be easily argued that he is a bad pick - he'll miss the half the games he could play for you because of injury problems. In 2 and a half seasons he has only managed 44 games; he will have to be seen as an injury prone player and his contribution to your team will have to take that in to account.

If you're only picking 11 players how can you take injuries into account? Rosicky just hasn't played well since he came here. He's a player who's meant to stand out and he's just blended in

Mitch Connor

Bubs101 wrote: »

If you're only picking 11 players how can you take injuries into account? Rosicky just hasn't played well since he came here. He's a player who's meant to stand out and he's just blended in

So, you discount the fact he has not be available to play for about half the time he has been at Arsenal? Of course injuries have to be taken into account, just as periods of poor form would have to be. You are to pick 11 players based on their contribution over their time in the premiership - its not my fault someone chose to pick a player who has suffered bad injury problems and has only be available for 44 games out of the 90+ that he was around for. It is up to NBM to justify the pick, explaining why they are still a good pick despite the fact he would not be available 50% of the time. Rosicky being injury prone is a fact of his premiership career, and I really don't see how that can be ignored.

Bubs101

Rosicky's case is a little different because he's played so few games but if you took someone like Dyer or King, I don't see how injuries would play into it. They have big enough samples but both have had shocking injury problems. I assumed that if we were just picking 11 players then injuries would have to be discounted in those cases.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

. It is up to NBM to justify the pick, explaining why they are still a good pick despite the fact he would not be available 50% of the time. .

This bit is where I misunderstand. I thought we were just picking our best team on paper for one off games and I don't really think you could just say well he's playing with 10 and a half men because he has Rosicky and there's a 50% chance he'll be injured

Mitch Connor

Bubs101 wrote: »

Rosicky's case is a little different because he's played so few games but if you took someone like Dyer or King, I don't see how injuries would play into it. They have big enough samples but both have had shocking injury problems. I assumed that if we were just picking 11 players then injuries would have to be discounted in those cases

They have a longer period to sample to get their good form from; but I would say equally that they are average/poor picks as their injury problems would mean you would not be able to actually select them for long periods, thus the chances of the doing well in your team are significantly decreased. All the arguments for how good theey could be in your team would need to be prefaced with "When fit", for instance.

Dont be at yourself

Indeed. As I understand it, we pick a line-up of 11 players - injuries don't come into it. That's why we've seen the likes of Kewell, King and Anderton picked so early.

Anyway, for my formation, I can only think of a small number of alternatives to fill the left-side of my attacking midfield. I won't mention names, but I think Rosicky is more compatible with my team than a pacey, out-and-out left winger.

Bubs101

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Indeed. As I understand it, we pick a line-up of 11 players - injuries don't come into it. That's why we've seen the likes of Kewell, King and Anderton picked so early.

Anyway, for my formation, I can only think of a small number of alternatives to fill the left-side of my attacking midfield. I won't mention names, but I think Rosicky is more compatible with my team than a pacey, out-and-out left winger.

I agree, btw, there's one phenomenal left wing who certainly should have been picked by now

Mitch Connor

Bubs101 wrote: »

This bit is where I misunderstand. I thought we were just picking our best team on paper for one off games and I don't really think you could just say well he's playing with 10 and a half men because he has Rosicky and there's a 50% chance he'll be injured

My understanding is we are picking the best side we can (based on pick position) but also a side that would need to be able to compete over long periods.

Look at the John Barnes pick, for instance. If we are only going for a one off game, his physical condition and lack of mobility for the time he was a prem player could be discounted, as you could simply say: "Well he only has to play one game so he can run himself into the ground". Same for any player of low mobility/physical condition. I don't see how we can argue a one off game, as then we can basically discount any injuries or periods of poor form, as you only need them to do well/be available for 1 game.

I dunno - i can see where you are coming from, especially as we only have 11 picks, but I honestly don't think discussions of the teams will have much merit if we are only talking about them in a 1 off game. Although, we could say Rosicky goes off injured at half time and NBM has to play the second half with 10 men!:D

Mitch Connor

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Indeed. As I understand it, we pick a line-up of 11 players - injuries don't come into it. That's why we've seen the likes of Kewell, King and Anderton picked so early.

Anyway, for my formation, I can only think of a small number of alternatives to fill the left-side of my attacking midfield. I won't mention names, but I think Rosicky is more compatible with my team than a pacey, out-and-out left winger.

And based on my understanding of the game, all 3 are relatively poor picks due to injuries.

We need a ruling on this, cause I have been basing my team on both form and selectability, not just their talent.

Also, with regards to Kewell and Anderton, both did play a large number of games (Anderton played over 600 in his career) and Kewell was relatively injury free at Leeds - it is easier to argue their availability. King is a poor pick given his lack of games over the last number of seasons.

Really do need confirmation on whether injuries can play a part in the discussion, as it would have a massive impact on the merits of certain players.

EDIT: Actually, Kings game time, apart from last season isn't bad - over half the season before that, a full season before that.

Bubs101

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I dunno - i can see where you are coming from, especially as we only have 11 picks, but I honestly don't think discussions of the teams will have much merit if we are only talking about them in a 1 off game. Although, we could say Rosicky goes off injured at half time and NBM has to play the second half with 10 men!:D

I'm pretty sure that the way the winner is decided is through a bunch of one of games though, a cup competition pitting two teams against each other until one is left which is only 4 or 5 games depending on byes. Really can't see someone bringing injuries into that format.

King is a poor pick given his lack of games over the last number of seasons.

When I picked King I assumed that since he's played over 200 premiership games his 4 game season in 2007 wouldn't count ala Lloyd's dubious validation of Sutton

Mitch Connor

Bubs101 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that the way the winner is decided is through a bunch of one of games though, a cup competition pitting two teams against each other until one is left which is only 4 or 5 games depending on byes. Really can't see someone bringing injuries into that format.


When I picked King I assumed that since he's played over 200 premiership games his 4 game season in 2007 wouldn't count ala Lloyd's dubious validation of Sutton

lol - as my edit says - King isn't too bad.

9 prem games this season.

4 the previous (lol)

but the other seasons going back are 21 games, 26 games, 38 games, 28 games. That really isn't all that bad apart from last season.

In contrast - Rosicky has played at all this season, only 15 starts last season and just over 20 starts the previous season; that is a poor return imo, and I really don't understand how such a poor return could be ignored.

Another example would be hargreaves. "When fit" he is an awesome player, one of the best CMs in the premiership - but i would count him to be a very poor pick given the injury problems he has suffered during his prem career. 2 games this season (and that is all he will get) and 16 last season. How can such injury problems be discounted when picking a team? BTW - Hargreaves isn't selectable in this draft so it doesn't matter that i have named him.

Seriously, we need clarification on whether injuries can be taken into account.

Racing Flat

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Indeed. As I understand it, we pick a line-up of 11 players - injuries don't come into it. That's why we've seen the likes of Kewell, King and Anderton picked so early.

Anyway, for my formation, I can only think of a small number of alternatives to fill the left-side of my attacking midfield. I won't mention names, but I think Rosicky is more compatible with my team than a pacey, out-and-out left winger.

Has Rosicky played 40 games?

Mitch Connor

Racing Flat wrote: »

Has Rosicky played 40 games?

44, including sub appearances; 37 starts, I think.

eagle eye

I thought Tugay would be available for a while yet, he is a great pick. He was my next pick.

Smegball

Mellberg is a terrific solid choice imo

Xavi6

Yeah superb pick at this point

Frisbee

Smegball wrote: »

Mellberg is a terrific solid choice imo

Aye, another one scratched off my ever shrinking shortlist...

mayordenis

aye mellberg is the on that really hurt when I thought more about my agger choice.

Bubs101

Was the choice of Dunne or mellberg for me. Pretty much a toss up but thought Mellberg's season last year wasn't the best (because he played out of position). Absolutely class act as well. Better player than laursen imo

Frisbee

Bubs101 wrote: »

Was the choice of Dunne or mellberg for me. Pretty much a toss up but thought Mellberg's season last year wasn't the best (because he played out of position). Absolutely class act as well. Better player than laursen imo

Really nice guy as well.
His last game he bought a Villa jersey for every Villa fan in the crowd as a way of saying thank you for all the support over the years.
Can't imagine many PL Footballers doing that...

whatawaster

Frisbee wrote: »

Really nice guy as well.
His last game he bought a Villa jersey for every Villa fan in the crowd as a way of saying thank you for all the support over the years.
Can't imagine many PL Footballers doing that...

Wow!

Home or away match? I have my calculator on hand.

Iago

whatawaster wrote: »

Wow!

Home or away match? I have my calculator on hand.

He bought 3,200 in total

http://www.footballshirtculture.com/200805121395/fans/-mellberg-thanks-4-your-support.html?comment_id=4982&joscclean=1

Frisbee

whatawaster wrote: »

Wow!

Home or away match? I have my calculator on hand.

Home, I believe

eirebhoy

Mellberg's better than a few centre halves picked so far imo.

eagle eye

eirebhoy wrote: »

Mellberg's better than a few centre halves picked so far imo.

If you are going on his current form at his new club I'd agree but his form was very erratic over the past three seasons at Villa.

eirebhoy

eagle eye wrote: »

If you are going on his current form at his new club I'd agree but his form was very erratic over the past three seasons at Villa.

Honestly couldn't tell you how he's performing for Juve but always loved him at Villa. Such a great organiser. He probably organised the Villa defence from right back last season.

genericgoon

Mellberg is a great pick. The fact he was great man as well as footballer always helps.

eagle eye

Good pick there Titan, Viduka has been consistently top notch in the premiership.

Bubs101

How Heskey and Crouch got picked before Viduka I will never understand.

Frisbee

Bubs101 wrote: »

How Heskey and Crouch got picked before Viduka I will never understand.

There's still one or two players available that will do the same job for you as those three except much better

shoutman

Mellberg was a great pick imo, definately a class act, performed his best during his last season while playing out of position. Top man, top pro, great pick,

titan18

Frisbee wrote: »

There's still one or two players available that will do the same job for you as those three except much better

I can think of a few who you might consider to be but I don't have anyone higher than Viduka or Heskey. They are over Crouch though.

I was going to pick Mellberg btw so that was why I took a while to pick.Had to go think again and I decided that Viduka offered the best value atm and wouldn't be around by my next pick

Iago

Bubs101 wrote: »

How Heskey and Crouch got picked before Viduka I will never understand.

Well I'll explain my thinking, although whether that'll help your understanding or not is debatable as it's very much a personal viewpoint.

When I was looking at someone to partner Cole up front I had a very specific type of player in mind. Heskey, Viduka and one or two others who shall remain nameless fit the bill. I had decided that Heskey & Viduka were the best of those, so I just had to pick one over the other.

Their goal record is similar, Heskey has more goals but has played significantly more games and to be honest their goalscoring wasn't the primary reason I wanted them but would be a nice addition. Heskey has far more assists than Viduka, and even though it's over a larger number of games there's something there that can't be ignored.

Ultimately Viduka's well documented attitude and mental issues cost him a place in my team. I wanted a team of players that would, to use a football cliche, "run through a wall for each other". Viduka just doesn't fit in with that mentality at all.

While he may have more natural ability than Heskey, at least Heskey will keep going when things are going badly for him and the team. He'll score goals and create chances whereas Viduka might not even come out for the second half, if he shows up at all

eagle eye

I'd have Heskey above Viduka as well. He has been superb throughout his career, except when he went to Liverpool and they expected him to score more goals than he had ever done before, he still played brilliantly for them, it was just that he was being asked to be a top goalscorer, something he never was and never will be. He even showed recently when he played for England how big an affect he has on matters, Wayne Rooney had a superb game playing off him.

When United were buying Berbatov this season, I was thinking to myself that Emile would have been a much better buy and at less than half the price.

titan18

Iago wrote: »

Well I'll explain my thinking, although whether that'll help your understanding or not is debatable as it's very much a personal viewpoint.

When I was looking at someone to partner Cole up front I had a very specific type of player in mind. Heskey, Viduka and one or two others who shall remain nameless fit the bill. I had decided that Heskey & Viduka were the best of those, so I just had to pick one over the other.

Their goal record is similar, Heskey has more goals but has played significantly more games and to be honest their goalscoring wasn't the primary reason I wanted them but would be a nice addition. Heskey has far more assists than Viduka, and even though it's over a larger number of games there's something there that can't be ignored.

Ultimately Viduka's well documented attitude and mental issues cost him a place in my team. I wanted a team of players that would, to use a football cliche, "run through a wall for each other". Viduka just doesn't fit in with that mentality at all.

While he may have more natural ability than Heskey, at least Heskey will keep going when things are going badly for him and the team. He'll score goals and create chances whereas Viduka might not even come out for the second half, if he shows up at all

Ya, I was thinking along those same lines, and I didnt want to pick Viduka at all considering I had already Di Canio up front. But I decided that his talent was too much to pass on, and Scholes and Gudjohnsen are hard working players as it is, and if i can add to them in midfield, Viduka will be able to be carried and with the service provided by Scholes and Gudjohnsen score some goals and create even more

genericgoon

Distin is another good pick. Plenty of experience and has been solid throughout his PL career.

titan18

genericgoon wrote: »

Distin is another good pick. Plenty of experience and has been solid throughout his PL career.

There are some better defenders left, but Distin is still a good pick