Premiership Player Draft - Discussion Only

Mitch Connor · 13-12-2008 3:18pm

Iago wrote: »

exactly what I was going to say. At the weekends when a pick is made at 11pm the night before there surely should be some allowances made, it's harsh to say the least.

yeah - i do feel crappy now.... can't undo my pick at this stage though.

whatawaster · 13-12-2008 3:22pm

you shouldn't feel crappy. The rules are the rules, we want to get this finished as quick as we can so the real fun of mocking each other's teams can begin. It's exactly the same for everyone.

Mitch Connor · 13-12-2008 3:24pm

yeah - but if you look at it practically; if gonzovision went out on the piss last night, there is no way they were going to be online by 10:30 or whatever, it really isn't reasonable to expect it. It is the same for everyone, but maybe we should have made some allowances for the weekends - though last weekend/monday saw hardly any picks at all.

genericgoon · 13-12-2008 3:24pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

now i know i'm as guilty.... but does either of you two feel guilt that gonzovision has now potentially missed out on 3 players cause he hasn't logged on since 10 last night....I know there is the 12 hour rule, but i'm feeling i should have held off a couple of hours.

Yeah it is a bit crappy but I think that the pace this has picked up since the introduction of the 12-hour rule, especially in the last few days, compensates for this worry. Tis only a game after all.

Xavi6 · 13-12-2008 3:26pm

I know what you're sayin but I have to deal with that all the time due to a 9 hour time difference, hence me picking off a phone while I'm out. That's the way the rules are so I guess it's tough.

Bubs101 · 13-12-2008 3:33pm

The difference between picks really isn't that big at this stage, If you wanted your top defender and he was picked you can just go to the top off a different list. The rules add to the game and are worth the occasional missed slot

titan18 · 13-12-2008 3:58pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

now i know i'm as guilty.... but does either of you two feel guilt that gonzovision has now potentially missed out on 3 players cause he hasn't logged on since 10 last night....I know there is the 12 hour rule, but i'm feeling i should have held off a couple of hours.

Ya, I do but the rules are there. I think that we should change them so that if the 12 hours are up and the next person picks, that it should be reset to about 2 hours or something.

titan18 · 13-12-2008 9:21pm

I dont think that Tony Hibbert is a good pick at all. There are definately better right backs available and the fact that he isnt actually any good at all means he shouldn't have been picked at all in this draft. He isnt good enough to play in most of the sides in the Premiership imo

Mitch Connor · 13-12-2008 9:33pm

titan18 wrote: »

I dont think that Tony Hibbert is a good pick at all. There are definately better right backs available and the fact that he isnt actually any good at all means he shouldn't have been picked

I'd say there are better centre backs than Richards around too.

titan18 · 13-12-2008 9:54pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I'd say there are better centre backs than Richards around too.

Definately, playing him as the right back isnt a bad move but as a centre back, there are a lot of better players left

whatawaster · 14-12-2008 2:02am

agree about Hibbert, i think he's the poorest value pick so far. There is one absolute top class right back left and many many other better ones. In fact we could probably name 15 current premier league right backs better than him

LuckyLloyd · 14-12-2008 3:40am

Igor Stimac was a very good pick imo.

Tony Hibbert? Mmmm. Maybe I'm missing something here. I wouldn't have expected him to be drafted at any point. Just seems like premiership average at his position.

But lets not hang gonzo to the cross just yet. Come on Gonzo, give us a write up and argue your case. What are you seeing that we aren't?

Gonzovision · 14-12-2008 12:58pm

Ooohhh dear Gonzo seems well and truly hanged.Ill have my write up later.I think he's pretty decent and underated defender. Ye guys certainly didn't hold back lol.

Necronomicon · 14-12-2008 4:03pm

I pm'd NekkidBibleMan, 12 hours has been up a little while now.

Dont be at yourself · 14-12-2008 4:11pm

Grand, I'll do my pick now so

Bubs101 · 14-12-2008 4:19pm

Cool, I'm online for a while now so we can get 3 out of the way quickly

Xavi6 · 14-12-2008 4:38pm

As remaining goalkeepers go there's only one that I consider better than Sullivan so it's a solid pick.

LuckyLloyd · 14-12-2008 4:42pm

I always viewed Sullivan as a steady player. Not one to put his foot in the top corner and pull out amazing saves, but not one to make mistakes and concede easy goals either. If you stick a good backline infront of him he's not going to cost you games.

Xavi6 · 14-12-2008 4:45pm

Finally Ugo gets picked up! Much better than a lot of the centre halves that have been chosen so far.

Dont be at yourself · 14-12-2008 4:47pm

Yeah, Ehiougu is a great pick at this stage. He completely slipped my mind!

LuckyLloyd · 14-12-2008 4:47pm

I GuanYin wrote: »

Finally Ugo gets picked up! Much better than a lot of the centre halves that have been chosen so far.

Yup. That Ugo Ehiogu and Stimac have been the last two gone further shows up the Agger pick imo. Particularly Stimac, who could pass the ball no probs.

Necronomicon · 14-12-2008 4:48pm

Over to Eirebear, pm sent.

Xavi6 · 14-12-2008 4:49pm

I had Ehiogu in mind when I was picking Southgate. If the latter was gone I would have been straight in for Ugo. A better option than not just Agger, but the likes of Richards and Bould as well imo.

Trippie · 14-12-2008 5:04pm

Ugo was my 1st choice centre bck this round, back to the drawing board i guess

RasTa · 14-12-2008 5:23pm

Is there any decent right wingers left? I've got a few but they are just squad players.

titan18 · 14-12-2008 5:27pm

I GuanYin wrote: »

I had Ehiogu in mind when I was picking Southgate. If the latter was gone I would have been straight in for Ugo. A better option than not just Agger, but the likes of Richards and Bould as well imo.

I'm slightly biased as I picked Bould but i think he was better than Ehiogu imo. He was stronger on the ball and had better positioning, and less likely to make mistakes.I can remember Ehiogu making mistakes that lost his team the game.

The one thing about Bould is that he played with 3 very good defenders alongside him, whereas Ehiogu only had Southgate, so any flaws in his game were covered by Adams etc.

Bubs101 · 14-12-2008 5:30pm

Richards is only really a bad pick because he's been effectively forced to play in the centre by Hibbert. As for Ugo, really good pick. Would have considered him had he not been so similar to King

whatawaster · 14-12-2008 6:35pm

Damn. Ugo and Henchoz were my chosen CB Pairing. I was unsure which to pick first.

Sullivan's a good pick too

LuckyLloyd · 14-12-2008 7:05pm

titan18 wrote: »

I'm slightly biased as I picked Bould but i think he was better than Ehiogu imo. He was stronger on the ball and had better positioning, and less likely to make mistakes.I can remember Ehiogu making mistakes that lost his team the game.

The one thing about Bould is that he played with 3 very good defenders alongside him, whereas Ehiogu only had Southgate, so any flaws in his game were covered by Adams etc.

I think they were quite similar in terms of style and impact. Ehiogu was probably a more explosive athlete - so I might give him an edge. But they are both solid players who won't let you down.

eagle eye · 15-12-2008 6:07am

I was hoping it might get around to me before Bridge was picked.

I have to add this bit here for the lol factor

played 113 premiership games in a row for Southampton, for who he was an everpresent

Explain it twice please.:D

Idu · 15-12-2008 8:41am

Apologies lads had no internet access over the weekend

mayordenis · 15-12-2008 2:57pm

ugo and bridge have left my plans in tatters.

Melion · 15-12-2008 3:55pm

Ehiougu was my first choice to partner Sami, still happy with my pick though.

Iago · 15-12-2008 4:05pm

pick made and PM sent to Llyod

LuckyLloyd · 15-12-2008 6:26pm

I've taken Des Walker; updated the spreadsheet; and sent a pm to Gonzo and Bohsman who have a pick outstanding and are on the clock respectively.

My team so far is:

Friedel

Finnan

Desailly

Walker

X

Vieira

Ginola

X

Kewell

Sutton

X

Happy enough.

I owe write ups for Finnan and Walker and will post them later on.

RasTa · 15-12-2008 6:48pm

There is no player called Fabrice Evra btw.

eagle eye · 15-12-2008 7:54pm

Well done Lloyd. I was surprised he was not picked earlier, he was my third option for Central Defense. I am very surprised at some of the defenders that went before him.

titan18 · 15-12-2008 7:58pm

David Unsworth is already gone,like 2 picks before you

titan18 · 15-12-2008 7:59pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Well done Lloyd. I was surprised he was not picked earlier, he was my third option for Central Defense. I am very surprised at some of the defenders that went before him.

Des Walker is a good pick imo.Probably should have gone earlier.I had been tempted to take him with my last pick but Stimac is a better player imo

LuckyLloyd · 15-12-2008 8:05pm

titan18 wrote: »

Des Walker is a good pick imo.Probably should have gone earlier.I had been tempted to take him with my last pick but Stimac is a better player imo

I think they are different defenders. Walker attacked the first ball better and was a superior athlete (during his peak he had astonishing pace), but Stimac was much better with the ball at feet and generally never seemed stretched due to how well he read and understood the game.

I think Desailly and Walker is a legitimately sick pairing though. Two great athletes who were very rugged in the challenge and excellent in the air. I won't be afraid of any front two tbh.

LuckyLloyd · 15-12-2008 8:07pm

I've PM'd gonzo and informed him that Unsworth was gone.

titan18 · 15-12-2008 8:42pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think they are different defenders. Walker attacked the first ball better and was a superior athlete (during his peak he had astonishing pace), but Stimac was much better with the ball at feet and generally never seemed stretched due to how well he read and understood the game.

I think Desailly and Walker is a legitimately sick pairing though. Two great athletes who were very rugged in the challenge and excellent in the air. I won't be afraid of any front two tbh.

Oh of course Desailly and Walker are a good pairing and it think walker was the best centre back left although there is one other who is worth picking and i considered him, but i dont know if he'll even get drafted, although he is miles better than some of the centre backs left.

Stimac just fit into my team better adn is a better centre back anyway. Also I felt that Walker's peak was at Forest and he had lost his pace when he came back to England, which is the reason I passed on him twice

Iago · 15-12-2008 10:03pm

titan18 wrote: »

Also I felt that Walker's peak was at Forest and he had lost his pace when he came back to England, which is the reason I passed on him twice

I'd tend to agree with this, I think Walker was past his best when he came back. In saying that at this point in the draft I think he represents good value and as has been rightly pointed out there were some picks before him that probably don't offer the same value....

..neither of my two obviously

LuckyLloyd · 15-12-2008 10:12pm

lads he was 28 when he came back for the start of the 1993 - 4 season, and 35 when Shef Wed entered the first division in 2000. Over the seven seasons he regressed, obviously - but he was still a force when he came back and at the peak of his powers.

bohsman · 15-12-2008 10:30pm

Delighted to get Dudek, think hes far better than a lot of the keepers picked so far.

titan18 · 15-12-2008 10:53pm

bohsman wrote: »

Delighted to get Dudek, think hes far better than a lot of the keepers picked so far.

I wouldnt be too sure about that.I think there are better keepers available too.He's still a good pick, but prone to errors and he could cost you games

bohsman · 15-12-2008 10:55pm

Very very few keepers arent, he went through a bad spell but came back from it. Not as bad a bad spell as say David James either.

shoutman · 15-12-2008 11:13pm

Dudek is a good pick imo, not sure who you think is better and still available that said i wouldnt of thought of lloyds pick at all.

Xavi6 · 16-12-2008 12:44am

Gettin to the difficult part of the draw but there's still a load of players left.

I've done up a new shortlist for the positions I have left and have come up with 4 viable right backs, 6 left backs and 9 wingers so hopefully I should get a few of them.

Xavi6 · 16-12-2008 5:03am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think they are different defenders. Walker attacked the first ball better and was a superior athlete (during his peak he had astonishing pace), but Stimac was much better with the ball at feet and generally never seemed stretched due to how well he read and understood the game.

I think Desailly and Walker is a legitimately sick pairing though. Two great athletes who were very rugged in the challenge and excellent in the air. I won't be afraid of any front two tbh.

Interesting piece on Walker on F365 today -

http://football365.com/john_nicholson/0,17033,8746_4649278,00.html

You`ll Never Beat Des Walker`

Posted 15/12/08 09:53

'You'll never beat Des Walker' was the chant from the terraces and it was true. For maybe five seasons he was the finest English central defender since Bobby Moore.

Blessed with electrifying pace, he could start five yards behind a striker, put on the after-burners, accelerate past him and rob him of the ball.

Des in full flight hunting down a striker was a thing of beauty because not only could he out-pace them, he could tackle hard, fairly and precisely as well. Not for him the pointless Razor Ruddock or Vinnie Jones style brutality, he didn't need to do that, though he was hard enough to if he wanted, no, he was the ultimate sophisticated defender for whom the art of defence was all about positioning, organisation and keeping a cool head; a cool head that was topped with a classic 3 Feet High And Rising, De La Soul style hair cut.

He was never really high profile, in fact he shunned press to the extent that 'You'll Never Beat Des Walker' was adapted to 'You'll Never Meet Des Walker.'

He never sought the limelight off the pitch, even though Roy Keane called him 'a world class playboy'. There's no doubt the fella liked a drink and if his MySpace page is anything to go by he's got an excellent sense of humour, claiming to be writing a 20 volume biography of Garibaldi!

At his peak Des Walker was simply magnificent; the best of the best. He only retired a few seasons ago and yet now seems almost forgotten. He deserves to be remembered him again and hailed as England's best centre half of the modern era.

A Hackney lad, it all started at Forest for Des in 1982 having been rejected by his boyhood club Spurs. Initially Brian Clough deployed him as a full back. It was understandable as he wasn't the big meat and potatoes type centre half so common at the time, he was fast and athletic. But he struggled to keep a place in the side as a full back especially in competition with England man Viv Anderson.

So it wasn't until Chris Fairclough was injured in 1985-86 season that he got his chance at centre half. But when he did, he took it with both hands and immediately made it his own. He quickly became a fixture.

That Forest side was great to watch, with restless and dynamic Walker sweeping it all up at the back and allowing the likes of Neil Webb and the young Nigel Clough to be creative going forward. His pace and powers of recovery also allowed left-back Stuart Pearce to bomb on. Easily the fastest defender in professional football for at least five years, he was like a gazelle on amphetamines, effortlessly gliding across the turf.

However, Forest, though good to watch, only finished 8th for the following two seasons. By the late 80s it was an even better side. Clough was especially fantastic knocking in 22 goals in the 1988-89 season, a season marred by the FA Cup semi-final against Liverpool which ended in such tragedy at Hillsborough. They won the Simod Cup that year though, and with the addition of Lee Chapman they achieved a consecutive 3rd place finish and won the League Cup, a trophy they defended successfully the following year.

Forest were always high profile thanks to Cloughie being at the helm and Walker's exemplary form did not go unnoticed by England manager Bobby Robson. After the hideous 1988 Euros during which our defence was slow and lumbering, he was brought into the side and quickly became a fixture playing alongside blood and guts type defenders such as Tony Adams, Mark Wright and Terry Butcher and it was with the latter two that he enjoyed such success in a back three at the 1990 World Cup.

With Walker's pace and tackling ability, no cause was ever lost. He was probably our player of that tournament but was over-shadowed by the Gazza hysteria. If you get chance to watch the 0-0 draw with Holland again, you'll see Des keep Marco Van Basten - possibly the best striker on earth at the time - totally subdued. Des dominated him and didn't give him an inch of room to move. It was an absolute master class.

Because English clubs were banned from Europe he hadn't had a chance to perform outside of these shores. When the ban was lifted, he missed out again as Forest reached the 1991 FA Cup final, a final they lost thanks to a Des Walker own goal. He didn't score them often but when he did he saved them for big occasions! Years later he would score an OG that led to Forest's defeat in a Championship play-off semi-final with Sheffield United.

He was good enough to be an Italian defender and so it was not a big surprise when Sampdoria paid £1.5 million for him in 1992, even though it appeared a relatively small amount of money for a man of his class.

However, it was a frustrating season for him because manager Sven Goran Eriksson played him as a left back, like Clough back in 1982, thinking his pace would useful in a wide position. He enjoyed his season there - mainly because he loved Italian food and wine - but it didn't suit him on the pitch and his form was affected.

Consequently, after just one season he came back to England, signing for Sheffield Wednesday. Proof of how highly valued he was came with the £2.7 million fee.

He quickly became a favourite with the South Yorkshire fans. He was still an England regular but had started to suffer niggling and recurring injuries which kept him out and eventually reduced his pace. He lost none of his positional sense though and none of his tackling qualities. And frankly, a slightly less fast Des Walker was still a match for most players.

Internationally, he had been our best defender under Graham Taylor but his loss of central defensive role in Italy and the fact that he was repeatedly asked to tidy up the messes left by inferior players around him in a declining Wednesday side meant his performances were not as consistent as they had been. His last England game was the 7-1 beating of San Marino.

He played more games for Wednesday than he had for Forest, turning out 309 times in nine years but rejoined Forest in 2002 for a couple of seasons. He partnered the young and then highly thought of Michael Dawson and came close to getting promotion.

After his all-star testimonial game in 2005 he infamously ended up spending a night in jail after a riotous dinner and party. In a generous gesture, most of the money raised went to the Danielle Beccan Memorial Trust, an anti-gun crime campaign.

Des wasn't the typical big lunk English centre half; he wasn't a spit and snot type defender. He wasn't even that big really at 5 ft 11, but it just didn't matter. He had the biggest leap you've ever seen, and could stop the biggest and hardest players with his speed and accurate tackling.

If he was 21 today he'd be the best in the Premier League. Even in the 1980s he was a 21st Century defender. He was ahead of his time. Today he would be a £30 million man, and would still walk into the England side. Rio, Terry and the rest have their qualities and their fans but frankly, they're no Des Walker.

The fans were right. For a few glorious seasons, you really couldn't beat him.

I only remember his last few years vividly but even then he was class.

Premiership Player Draft - Discussion Only

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