Premiership Player Draft - Discussion Only

RasTa

I've heard of Wright but can't remember him in any games.

genericgoon

Shouldn't people be picking so that things can really start to get interesting?

eagle eye

RasTa wrote: »

I've heard of Wright but can't remember him in any games.

There is nothing you can do about that, you weren't around at the time, but how can you fairly decide on who has a better team when you don't know how good/bad a player was?

And if you don't remember Wright, then you certainly never seen Roland Nielsen playing for Sheffield Wednesday either, like Titan 18.

But how can someone make a proper informed decision on my team if there are two players that you never seen play? I mean you could also take Peter Beardsley into this argument but luckily there was a Youtube thingy for him so you got to see all his great moments with Newcastle.

At least four of my players off the top of my head played in the early years of the Premier League. Peter Beardsley, Neville Southall, Roland Nielsen and Alan Wright. Come to think of it, then theres Andy Townsend, Alan Shearer and Jason Wilcox who all played from the very beginning of the PL.

Mr.Nice Guy

genericgoon wrote: »

Shouldn't people be picking so that things can really start to get interesting?

Yeah gonzovision was after Xavi by my reckoning but he hasn't been on to make his pick.

Wreck

Whether we do it in a cup format or once off rating of all the teams, I think the criteria for judging should be the expected team performance over a full premiership season.

Mitch Connor

Wreck wrote: »

Whether we do it in a cup format or once off rating of all the teams, I think the criteria for judging should be the expected team performance over a full premiership season.

agreed - if not, people are less likely to take injuries or poor form into account.

LuckyLloyd

Wreck wrote: »

Whether we do it in a cup format or once off rating of all the teams, I think the criteria for judging should be the expected team performance over a full premiership season.

Lads, where did I say the criteria for seperating cup ties was not through assessing the player's selected in terms of their impact on the premiership? Again, injuries play into that overall impact. I just clarified that you will have to simply accept that 11 players play every game in this format - that there is no discussion along the lines of 'your guys are made of glass and have disciplinary problems so, while you are much the better team, you'll lose the tie cause you'll have 8 men at the end'. Instead, the discussion can me: 'you have some nice players but I would question the consistency of their career and how much bad was mixed with the good - I'm taking his team cause they were all solid hardworking pros with long and consistent careers'.

Do ye dig?

Wreck

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Lads, where did I say the criteria for seperating cup ties was not through assessing the player's selected in terms of their impact on the premiership? Again, injuries play into that overall impact. I just clarified that you will have to simply accept that 11 players play every game in this format - that there is no discussion along the lines of 'your guys are made of glass and have disciplinary problems so, while you are much the better team, you'll lose the tie cause you'll have 8 men at the end'. Instead, the discussion can me: 'you have some nice players but I would question the consistency of their career and how much bad was mixed with the good - I'm taking his team cause they were all solid hardworking pros with long and consistent careers'.

Do ye dig?

Yeah I understand what you are saying, but I am suggesting that in the individual match ups we judge the teams over the course of a full season, rather than a once-off game. This is in relation to the following:

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

This is a very difficult question. We aren't playing a league but instead a maximum of five cup games for which we will have to assume each player is fit and able to play. As such, I think everyone should accept that every player will stay fit throughout all of their ties in the competition - so a voting rationale along the lines of team x > team y because team y is sure to end up with nine players is not a valid form of reasoning.

Where I think injuries have their impact is in so far as they have limited a player's overall impact on the premiership throughout their career. As such, there will be question marks of how good Kewell and Dyer are because a significant portion of their career has been blighted by injury. And they have often been playing at a reduced capacity on the return from a long layoff and ultimately have not dominated for long stretches in the way a Scholes or Keane figure has. So injuries are just another part of the equation of assessing a player's overall worth.

I'm open to questions and opinions on this topic by the way.

With the criterion I'm suggesting, comments along the lines of the following would be perfectly acceptable and appropriate:


'Team A has a number of players with inconsistent form, injury and disciplinary problems, so while Team A would probably beat Team B in a once off match, over the course of a full season Team B is likely to have more points and therefore Team B wins the tie.'

I realise this is only for fun, but I really feel that this is more in keeping with the spirit in which players were drafted. I don't mind either way though.

whatawaster

what's the story with the clock? Have a couple at least been skipped by now?

eagle eye

whatawaster wrote: »

what's the story with the clock? Have a couple at least been skipped by now?

I'm wondering about this myself, don't worry I'll pm you when I'm done.;)

Mitch Connor

whatawaster wrote: »

what's the story with the clock? Have a couple at least been skipped by now?

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm wondering about this myself, don't worry I'll pm you when I'm done.;)

By my reckoning, whatawaster has been up since around 11.30 today.

RasTa

eagle eye wrote: »

There is nothing you can do about that, you weren't around at the time, but how can you fairly decide on who has a better team when you don't know how good/bad a player was?

I was born in 83 btw, still don't remember any impact he had on the Premiership.

whatawaster

Mitch Connor wrote: »

By my reckoning, whatawaster has been up since around 11.30 today.

should i go ahead? I think i'm the only one still to pick a goalkeeper anyway.

whatawaster

I've made my pick. Thomas Sorensen completes my lineup.

Should i pm the next in line now, or do the people behind me get more time to pick? This clock is confusing me.

I won't do a detailed write-up on my team now, as i'm "working", but here it is:

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Sorensen

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Jones

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Stubbs

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Henchoz

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Beresford

McManaman

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Hamann

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Gravesen

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Duff

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Keane

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Henry

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I'm very happy with the balance of the side.

Frisbee

whatawaster wrote: »

Should i pm the next in line now, or do the people behind me get more time to pick? This clock is confusing me.

I think you can PM whoever's after you afaik

Xavi6

Lol at first look that latest pic had me thinkin that Vas had been chosen!

Wreck

I didn't realise Roland Nilson had been picked and had him in mind all week, decided I'd better check the spreadsheet just in case and he was gone. This pick has been the hardest by a mile, almost every player I came up with was already picked. I came up with Corluka and two others, both of whom had very succesful premiership careers, but only played intermittently at right back. In the end I decided I'd rather not pick anyone out of position and went with Corluka.

eagle eye

Whats going on, whatawaster has made his last pick out of turn. I'm ahead of him in the order and I got no pm yet. There are others also, I don't know if anyone needs a keeper but he should not be picking out of turn like that.

Wreck

Here's my final line up:

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Kasey Keller

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V Corluka

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L Radebe

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C Hendry

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G Clichy

F Ljungberg----D Platt

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Roy Keane---N Barmby

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N Kanu

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OG Solskjaer

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In a team full of leaders and top pros, Roy Keane will get the captain's armband.

And the order in which I picked them:

1 Roy Keane
2 Freddie Ljungberg
3 Lucas Radebe
4 Colin Hendry
5 Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
6 Gael Clichy
7 Nwanko Kanu
8 David Platt
9 Kasey Keller
10 Nick Barmby
11 Verdan Corluka

I think Keane should have been everyone's number one pick, was delighted to get him. I think Solskjaer, Platt and Barmby are unbelievable value for the rounds they were picked in. I probably could have left Colin Hendry and Kanu until later rounds.

I think my team has actually turned out pretty well. It's well balanced, and full of consistent and reliable performers. My keeper, while not spectacular, is solid. I think the defense is excellent, there aren't many better central partnerships then Radebe and Hendry. Clichy and Corluka are both accomplished defenders, capable of offering something going forward also.

The midfield is again strong. Keane and Platt were both fantastic players. Keane will be the driving force of midfield, dictating the pace of the game. Platt will both work his socks off and get forward to score goals. Goals will also come from Barmby and Ljungberg on the flanks.

Up front, one of the most intelligent and proficent strikers of the premiership era will both score and create goals. And Kanu will offer the flair and creativity that will open opposing defenses.

Biggest weakness in the side is a lack of frightening pace.

Wreck

eagle eye wrote: »

Whats going on, whatawaster has made his last pick out of turn. I'm ahead of him in the order and I got no pm yet. There are others also, I don't know if anyone needs a keeper but he should not be picking out of turn like that.

I'm not sure, I got a pm saying it was my go so went ahead and picked. Looking back over the last few posts it looks like a couple of people have been skipped as their time is up. I'd say go ahead and make your pick now.

eagle eye

Wreck wrote: »

I'm not sure, I got a pm saying it was my go so went ahead and picked. Looking back over the last few posts it looks like a couple of people have been skipped as their time is up. I'd say go ahead and make your pick now.

Well Xavi made a pick today so I hardly think its got to me yet as there are at least three between me and him, therefore 36 hours would have had to pass since Xavi's pick for it to come to me.

So you've both picked out of turn and that means that if you lose you player to somebody that is rightfully ahead of you, tough luck imo.

Wreck

eagle eye wrote: »

Well Xavi made a pick today so I hardly think its got to me yet as there are at least three between me and him, therefore 36 hours would have had to pass since Xavi's pick for it to come to me.

So you've both picked out of turn and that means that if you lose you player to somebody that is rightfully ahead of you, tough luck imo.

Xavi made his pick two days ago, and if we are going by the twelve hour rule I could almost have skipped whatawaster myself.

Mitch Connor

eagle eye wrote: »

Well Xavi made a pick today so I hardly think its got to me yet as there are at least three between me and him, therefore 36 hours would have had to pass since Xavi's pick for it to come to me.

So you've both picked out of turn and that means that if you lose you player to somebody that is rightfully ahead of you, tough luck imo.

Xavi made his pick on the 7th (wednesday), and around noon. Nobody's fault but the people who were 'skipped' for not paying attention.

eagle eye

Very Weird, I opened it a while ago and it said today at 11.34, and not it says two days ago. Fair enough, I'll have a look now, and make my pick sometime later on.

eagle eye

Ok pick made, I had him in mind for the last three rounds and gambled that he would not be picked, a few comments from people made me think he was going to go in each round but luckily he survived until now.

I'll do a write up on the whole team tomorrow. Here is the team

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Southall

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Nielsen

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Laursen

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Vidic

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Wright

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Makelele

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Stone

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Townsend

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Wilcox

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Beardsley

---

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Shearer

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whatawaster

eagle eye wrote: »

Whats going on, whatawaster has made his last pick out of turn. I'm ahead of him in the order and I got no pm yet. There are others also, I don't know if anyone needs a keeper but he should not be picking out of turn like that.

the clock had got to me, and the only reason i picked, as stated on the previous page of this thread, was because i checked and i was the only one who needed a goalkeeper.

Mr.Nice Guy

I'd like to know why people have made picks ahead of me and not even bothered to give me a PM. Thanks a lot lads. That's great form.

I'll pick now anyway.

eagle eye

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I'd like to know why people have made picks ahead of me and not even bothered to give me a PM. Thanks a lot lads. That's great form.

I'll pick now anyway.

Well I made a load of comments here about it but I was overtaken myself so I felt I had to go then. I understand your annoyance though.

On your pick, I was thinking strongly of picking him myself but went for Stone instead, it was a tight call between the two of them. However at full back I am not gone on Geremi. When the draft has completed I'll tell you who you missed.

whatawaster

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I'd like to know why people have made picks ahead of me and not even bothered to give me a PM. Thanks a lot lads. That's great form.

I'll pick now anyway.

i didn't realise i was supposed to PM you if i skipped you, i thougt after 12 hours i just went. It was my turn to go, and i enquired as such on this thread.
anyway, i checked if anyone else needed a goalkeeper. They didn't ,and i wouldn't have went otherwise.

Mitch Connor

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I'd like to know why people have made picks ahead of me and not even bothered to give me a PM. Thanks a lot lads. That's great form.

I'll pick now anyway.

you know the 12 hour rule. It is your responsibility to keep an eye on it, not everyone else to inform you. The only person that is supposed to send a PM is supposed to send a PM is the person directly before you, not everyone after you. Did you not think it had been a while since the last pick?

Mr.Nice Guy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

you know the 12 hour rule. It is your responsibility to keep an eye on it, not everyone else to inform you. The only person that is supposed to send a PM is supposed to send a PM is the person directly before you, not everyone after you. Did you not think it had been a while since the last pick?

With respect I'd actually been on the night before to try and get things back on track. I pointed out that gonzovision was next in line and I even PM'd wardie to tell him he should probably make his pick since gonzo hadn't been on in a good while. I found it a bit disappointing that a good few picks were made without anyone even PM'ing me that they were doing so. I recall Lloyd saying earlier in the thread if you are going to skip someone at least make the effort to PM them.

I just found it disappointing that after I'd tried to get things back on track the night before no one looked out for me whatsoever. A bit harsh.

LuckyLloyd

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

With respect I'd actually been on the night before to try and get things back on track. I pointed out that gonzovision was next in line and I even PM'd wardie to tell him he should probably make his pick since gonzo hadn't been on in a good while. I found it a bit disappointing that a good few picks were made without anyone even PM'ing me that they were doing so. I recall Lloyd saying earlier in the thread if you are going to skip someone at least make the effort to PM them.

I just found it disappointing that after I'd tried to get things back on track the night before no one looked out for me whatsoever. A bit harsh.

Indeed I did. And it seems that wasn't the case here. :mad:

whatawaster

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Indeed I did. And it seems that wasn't the case here. :mad:

I apologise again, i have no recollection of that rule:

from the picks thread:

-Clock expires on a drafter after 24 hrs. After that time, the next player on the list will be allowed to go and it will up to the skipped player to post a pick in the draft thread at their earliest convenience;

- When someone has completed a pick, they should pm the next in line to inform them that it is their turn;

i don't recall you ever saying to pm the skipped player, i've no doubt you did, but it must have passed me by. As far as i was aware i wasn't breaking any rule as the above makes it clear that the onus is on the skipped player to post their pick whenever they can. I did PM the next in line as stated above.

Finally, i was picking a goalkeeper and none of the skipped players had still to pick one, so as far as i'm concerned my skip had no consequences, notwithstanding that it was within the rules. So i don't know why people are moaning.

LuckyLloyd

Fair enough, I should have gone back and amended the original rules after mentioning it a couple of times about pming skipped players and the next in line in such situations.

Anyway, lets just drop the subject - we're nearly done with the picks anyway and there is no need for unnecessary fussing and feuding now.

Mr.Nice Guy

No worries, whatawaster. I don't mean to sound like a big whinger or anything. I've enjoyed the whole draft experience and looking forward to the next part. :cool:

Idu

Congratulations on the new arrival wardie

whatawaster

janets_on_clubs wrote: »

Congratulations on the new arrival wardie

+1

Frisbee

Right I PM'd gonzovision to make sure he knows he's missed his go.
I'll give him till tomorrow or late tonight and if he hasn't picked by then I'll go ahead.

Idu

Order Picked:
Fowler
Speed
Torres
Bosnich
Staunton
Van Persie
Mellberg
Danny Murphy
Carbone
Melchiot
Nelsen

Line Up:

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Bosnich

---

Melchiot ---Mellberg --- Nelsen ----Staunton

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Murphy

---

Speed

---

Carbone

---

Van Persie

---

Torres

---

Fowler

---

Draft Summary:
It's fair to say that my team didn't shape up exactly as I had planned at the beginning of the draft. I believe I hindered myself in having a limit shortlist at the start of each round and as that would be whittled away I didnt take the time to look at other options available. That said I'm happy with both the shape and the players I did get and more importantly their ability to play the system that I want to employ.

A lot of people seem to be lamenting their decision to pick a goalkeeper early in the draft because of the amount of decent keepers available towards the end. I'm firmly in the opposite camp because while there were a few good goalkeepers picked towards the end I wouldnt describe any of them as great and great keepers win you points. Bosnich in his prime was a great keeper, certainly one of the best to ever grace the premiership. If it wasnt for his off field problems I believe he could have cemented his place in the United side and added to his medal haul in the process

My defence is the epitomy of solid and unspectacular which was necessary given the formation I want to play. Mellberg and Nelsen are tough, no nonsense defenders who are both good in the air and strong in the tackle. Both have decent pace too which allows them to make vital challenges against quicker forwards.

I will want my full backs to offer something going forward but not to the extent of an Evra or a Cole because I wont be asking too much defensively of RVP or Carbone. Melchiot and praticularly Staunton are good crossers of the ball and dont need to beat their man to whip in a cross from the by-line. Both have pace and while their forays forward wont be too aggressive this pace will allow them to get back into a defensive position quickly and to get a solid defensive unit organised quickly. Staunton, while I'm happy with him in my team,was definitely a poor pick for the 5th round but c'est la vie.

In the middle I wanted two players who can pick a pass but also get stuck in and win the ball that will be vital to allow my front players to be creative. Speed and Murphy are perfect for this role. Both are tenacious in the middle of the park and both can pick out a pass and get involved further up the field. Speed is also a great leader and will be my captain. He's also a handy threat from corners too but his real effect will be felt in the engine room and his overall leadership on the field.

Carbone and Van Persie are the aces up my sleeve and I will be looking to them to score goals, be creative and make chances for the front two. Both have question marks over them. Carbone because he can be erratic and Van Persie because he cant stay fit enough to really get into his stride. As I said when I picked him though he is a worthwhile gamble because he offers things that few players in the draft have. Guile, a lethal shot and a genuine left foot. I've lined them up to favour their stronger feet but as a manager I would be encouraging them to pop up anywhere across that line behind the front two, get on the ball and make things happen.

What you get from my front two is goals. Fowler in his pomp was the best natural finisher in the premiership and one of a rare breed of strikers who could score every type of goal. Left foot, right foot, head, you name it he used it to great effect in putting the ball in the net. A god on the red half of Merseyside and rightly so. Slowed in his later years but definitely a worthy first round pick.

Now my most contentious pick which seems to have split people. I was delighted that my pick happened to fall just as Torres passed his 40 PL game because I believe him to be one of the most awesome strikers I've seen. First Liverpool player to score 20 goals in a season since, ironically, Robbie Fowler, and broke the record for most goals in a debut season for a foreign player. Simply put the lad is a goalscorer and more than that he is a proper footballer. Pace to burn and an eye for a pass he complements Fowler perfectly I believe as they both have attributes the other is lacking but together they would be unbelievable. I believe they could form the kind of partnership that Torres enjoys with David Villa at International level and that hasnt been going too badly.

Now to the issue of his selection. Agreed he doesnt have a long career to judge from and as such its difficult to assess his long term affect on the league but judging from the sample we have seen so far I believe him to be an excellent third round pick for two reasons. Firstly he fits perfectly in with my team. When I picked Fowler I always had Torres in mind to partner him and secondly because I dont think he would have lasted any further and to my mind there was no striker taken after him that is as talented, skillful or had such an explosive effect on the premiership as Torres. For that reason I believe he fits the criteria needed to be considered a good pick and a great asset to my team

Melion

So whats happening now? Has everyone picked?

Frisbee

Ihaven't picked my final pick yet. And neither has gonzovision. I was giving him a chance to go before me as he's been skipped a few times.
I've PM'd him and by looking at his profile he's been online a few times since I've PM'd him and still hasn't made his pick.
I'll send him another one

Wreck

Just make your pick, he's had more than enough time.

genericgoon

Its over. Let the debate begin.

Xavi6

My last pick was a toss up between Gillespie and Fox so I highly endorse Frisbee's decision.

Frisbee

Xavi6 wrote: »

My last pick was a toss up between Gillespie and Fox so I highly endorse Frisbee's decision.

I thought i was sure to get him as I figured half the people on here wouldn't remember him and most already had right wingers.. Didn't realise it was that close :pac:

Xavi6

Has every pick been made now?

Frisbee

Xavi6 wrote: »

Has every pick been made now?

Yes. I checked back through Lloyd's posts but couldn't see whether we have to right up our tactics in order or not?

LuckyLloyd

Geremi right at the death is such sick, sick value.

Ok gentlemen, please put a final write up (and naming of Captain) up in the picks thread in any order at your earliest convenience. I'll do mine tomorrow. Once this is done, I'll get cracking with the next stage.

Xavi6

Should we name our teams to make it easier for the draw etc?

LuckyLloyd

Xavi6 wrote: »

Should we name our teams to make it easier for the draw etc?

Sure.