Premiership Player Draft - Discussion Only

LuckyLloyd

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Why the big fuss over Bruce and Pallister? Both were great defenders and measure up fine with any defensive pairing in Premiership history. I personally would have chosen others, but people are acting like he's gone for McShane and Bramble.

Imagine you come home tomorrow and find God sitting down at your kitchen table. A couple of his Angels revive you (you fainted upon seeing him obv) and put you sitting across from the almighty at your table.

God informs you that he wishes to make you a wealthy man. He offers you a no strings attached choice of a case containing €500k or €5m.

Now, if you took the former it would obviously be an awesome boon to your finances. But, wouldn't it be reasonable for people to ask why you didn't take the larger sum when you had the chance?

ditpoker

Lloyd, you upset. That is all.

Xavi6

I would've picked Bruce but not Pallister unitil at least round 8. I can see why they were chosen together though.

LuckyLloyd

ditpoker wrote: »

Lloyd, you pwn my weak ass picks. That is all.

FYP

Wreck

Well Bohsman's second 24 hours are up. He's going to be at a big disadvantage for the rest of the draft. Llyod up next, will it be Desailly as some have predicted?


Edit: lol yes

LuckyLloyd

Of course it was Desailly. I like World Cup and European Championship winning players!

I've pm'd Iago.

Trippie

lol at the copy and past job from another site lloyd. will the team i came across on that be who you're aiming to get this time out as well?

LuckyLloyd

Trippie wrote: »

lol at the copy and past job from another site lloyd. will the team i came across on that be who you're aiming to get this time out as well?

lol. Well, in my defense I corrected some grammatical errors and added in a new picture! :pac:

But yeah, my rankings of players haven't changed that much since I did this a few months ago. I think my end team will be different though simply because I get the feeling players are going to slip through the cracks and be available much later than they should with this group (I got Vieira at 18 and think of some of the players still on the board!!).

Xavi6

Wouldn't have gone for Desailly myself, mainly cause I will always view his best days as being at Milan. He was good in the Premiership, just not to that extent.

LuckyLloyd

Xavi6 wrote: »

Wouldn't have gone for Desailly myself, mainly cause I will always view his best days as being at Milan. He was good in the Premiership, just not to that extent.

Again, he arrived immediately after winning the WC - and was brilliant in the EC two summers later. No, he wasn't as good as he was at Milan - but he was still a ****ing beast (and one of the best players in his position in the World) for about four seasons in England.

shoutman

Predictable Lloyd, not a bad pick at all though. Desailly was certaintly solid as a rock.

Trippie

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

lol. Well, in my defense I corrected some grammatical errors and added in a new picture! :pac:

But yeah, my rankings of players haven't changed that much since I did this a few months ago. I think my end team will be different though simply because I get the feeling players are going to slip through the cracks and be available much later than they should with this group (I got Vieira at 18 and think of some of the players still on the board!!).

I thought the second pic might have been new. Id be in agreement with Xavi on this one in that while Desailly was scary good for Milan I think you may have been able to get a better player compared to him in the premier league

Bubs101

As a Chelsea fan, Desailly was great but he was awful in his last season and I'd put are current two centre backs ahead of him tbh. Not a bad pick at all though. Think alot of the top defenders are around about the same quality and just offer different things

LuckyLloyd

Bubs101 wrote: »

As a Chelsea fan, Desailly was great but he was awful in his last season and I'd put are current two centre backs ahead of him tbh. Not a bad pick at all though. Think alot of the top defenders are around about the same quality and just offer different things

Sure - I noted that in my writeup. One bad season at the end of a Chelsea career does not a bad Chelsea career make however.

Frisbee

It will come into people's heads though when their voting.
"Oh yeah he was a great CB, except for his last season, I'm not gonna take that into account..."

He's a good pick, not for round 2 though imo

Xavi6

Man these picks seem like they're takin forever. Dyin to go again!

Bubs101

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Sure - I noted that in my writeup. One bad season at the end of a Chelsea career does not a bad Chelsea career make however.

No I agree, but I just think that if you're going to berate someone for making bad value picks with Bruce and Pallister I would probably say that you're being a little hypocritical. He was great for us but we weren't a great team at that time and he had a decent supporting cast for the time (Lebouef and Le Saux). I wouldn't rate him that much higher than the United two during his English period

LuckyLloyd

Bubs101 wrote: »

No I agree, but I just think that if you're going to berate someone for making bad value picks with Bruce and Pallister I would probably say that you're being a little hypocritical. He was great for us but we weren't a great team at that time and he had a decent supporting cast for the time (Lebouef and Le Saux). I wouldn't rate him that much higher than the United two during his English period

wat

Desailly 1998 - 2002 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruce and Pallister, lol.

That you weren't a great team at that time is also relevant to this very point because Jeff's two had the best protection available in the league infront and behind them while they were playing in the Premiership.

Lebouef tailed off dramatically once he got to England too, and Desailly spend his last couple of years nurturing a green John Terry.

Again, and this is really important - Desailly was magnificent in the 2000 EC, i.e. the highest level at that point in time. The man was CRUSHING the premiership at that time, and himself and Zola accounted for the vast majority of false hope of mounting a premiership challenge that Bates and Chelsea enjoyed during those years.

Melion

Desailly was going to be my 2nd pick

Frisbee

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Desailly was magnificent in the 2000 EC, i.e. the highest level at that point in time.

But it's by Premiership form. So his international form is irrelevant, right?

shoutman

And its how good he was at his peak in the premiership.

LuckyLloyd

Frisbee wrote: »

But it's by Premiership form. So his international form is irrelevant, right?

Yeah, but people will have a tough time remembering exactly how individual players performed in premiership matches that took place during a range of 10 - 6 years ago. Particularly when we are talking about a player in a non attacking position playing for a team that didn't play many key ties that were decisive in deciding the league title. European Championship, World Cup or Champions league knock out ties stand in the memory much better though because the relative paucity of such games help to make them much more of an occasion.

So, discussing his form in that tournament is relevant because it is the easiest way to gauge and explain how good he was at the time.

wardie

Xavi6 wrote: »

Man these picks seem like they're takin forever. Dyin to go again!

+1

It'll be great to have 2 in close proximity soon though

Bubs101

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

wat

Desailly 1998 - 2002 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruce and Pallister, lol.

I'm well aware of how good he was but to sday you're overstating it is an understatement of massive proportions. I saw virtually all his games for Chelsea because I followed Vialli from Juve and Desailly joined during that period and while he was great there's no way he's the best defender in the premiership ever, and seeing as you don't rate the only two picked that appears to be the way you feel. For example, he never won our player of the year award in the years he was there

ditpoker

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yeah, but people will have a tough time remembering exactly how individual players performed in premiership matches that took place during a range of 10 - 6 years ago. Particularly when we are talking about a player in a non attacking position playing for a team that didn't play many key ties that were decisive in deciding the league title.

. re bruce/pallister!! is it my pick yet, I want to upset lloyd some more. and lloyd, when you did this draft thingy before, at the end of no-one made much comment about your average run of the mill team of average-ness.... learn from your mistakes, try and pick a better TEAM... sure, throw 11 individuals down on the sheet and argue they were great til the cows come home, but your team was still average and no-one rated them.

I agree, if it aint broke dont fix it, but if it aint working........????

Just to confirm, are we trying to put together a squad of 11 players who individually are well respected, or are we trying to build a premiership TEAM that we believe would perform well and do well and win a premiership?? just so i know...?

also off-topic: lloyd (and shoutman too i guess if you're reading), jackpot at 9pm for the €40 game???

ditpoker

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

wat

Desailly 1998 - 2002 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruce and Pallister, lol.

Again, and this is really important - Desailly was magnificent in the 2000 EC, i.e. the highest level at that point in time. The man was CRUSHING the premiership at that time, and himself and Zola accounted for the vast majority of false hope of mounting a premiership challenge that Bates and Chelsea enjoyed during those years.

i seem to remember Ron Atkinson calling him "f**king lazy" :cool:

ITT-Pat

ditpoker wrote: »

. re bruce/pallister!! is it my pick yet, I want to upset lloyd some more. and lloyd, when you did this draft thingy before, at the end of no-one made much comment about your average run of the mill team of average-ness.... learn from your mistakes, try and pick a better TEAM... sure, throw 11 individuals down on the sheet and argue they were great til the cows come home, but your team was still average and no-one rated them.

I agree, if it aint broke dont fix it, but if it aint working........????

Just to confirm, are we trying to put together a squad of 11 players who individually are well respected, or are we trying to build a premiership TEAM that we believe would perform well and do well and win a premiership?? just so i know...?

also off-topic: lloyd (and shoutman too i guess if you're reading), jackpot at 9pm for the €40 game???

jeff you're next pick is gonna be paul parker isn't it?

also: me and tj shall be there to relieve of your monies

LuckyLloyd

ditpoker wrote: »

i seem to remember Ron Atkinson calling him "f**king lazy" :cool:

He called him a "****ing lazy ******". I'm sure you don't agree with that. And in any case, I have already conceded that he turned in a miserable performance in that game as part of a pretty poor season.

LuckyLloyd

ditpoker wrote: »

Just to confirm, are we trying to put together a squad of 11 players who individually are well respected, or are we trying to build a premiership TEAM that we believe would perform well and do well and win a premiership?? just so i know...?

You act like these cannot be one and both the same.

ditpoker

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You act like these cannot be one and both the same.

very much so.
case in point:

Tottenham: loads of over paid nancy-boys with long hair who are annoying me at the moment and can barely beat bolton = team of individuals. Great on paper, sh1t on grass.

Hull: team of effective no-bodies in terms of fame and glory, currently sitting pretty level on points with chelsea = team as a unit. Sh1t on paper, great on grass.

Also: COME ON HARRY REDKNAPP!!!

Iago

Pick made and PM sent. Can't believe I managed to get him at this late stage, but delighted I did!

Trippie

Iago wrote: »

Pick made and PM sent. Can't believe I managed to get him at this late stage, but delighted I did!

I was debating picking him or not

Frisbee

He was one of the one's I had in mind for my second pick. That list is getting smaller...

LuckyLloyd

ditpoker wrote: »

very much so.
case in point:

Tottenham: loads of over paid nancy-boys with long hair who are annoying me at the moment and can barely beat bolton = team of individuals. Great on paper, sh1t on grass.

Hull: team of effective no-bodies in terms of fame and glory, currently sitting pretty level on points with chelsea = team as a unit. Sh1t on paper, great on grass.

Also: COME ON HARRY REDKNAPP!!!

As individuals, the Spurs team are overrated.

The Arsenal team that went unbeaten and the Mourinhio's Chelsea team had plenty of talented and well respected individual players. It isn't as simple as you would like it to be.

ditpoker

Iago wrote: »

Pick made and PM sent. Can't believe I managed to get him at this late stage, but delighted I did!

well there goes my "Yorke and Cole" up front plan!!

ditpoker

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

As individuals, the Spurs team are overrated.

The Arsenal team that went unbeaten and the Mourinhio's Chelsea team had plenty of talented and well respected individual players. It isn't as simple as you would like it to be.

so having successfully avoided answering my question... what is it we're trying to achieve with our picks, with our teams?? in your opinion??

ITT-Pat

ditpoker wrote: »

very much so.
case in point:

Tottenham: loads of over paid nancy-boys with long hair who are annoying me at the moment and can barely beat bolton = team of individuals. Great on paper, sh1t on grass.

Hull: team of effective no-bodies in terms of fame and glory, currently sitting pretty level on points with chelsea = team as a unit. Sh1t on paper, great on grass.

Also: COME ON HARRY REDKNAPP!!!

but what lloyd means is that you're acting like the cannot be the same. sure that spurs side full of great individuals arent playing well together but doesnt mean that we have to sacrifice great players to make it work

if i was to quickly pick a world XI it prob be:

Casillas
Ramos
Ferdinand
Carvalho
Clichy
Ronaldo
Kaka
Gerrard
Messi
Torres
RVN

and that team may not work as due Ferdinand and Carvalho not really being bruisers or ramos possibly not being good enough at the back. but that doesnt mean i'll automatically take out ramos and bring in wes brown because he works so well with Rio.

similarly in midfield, it could be argued that all i have is great players going forward, better bring mascherano in, and that would prob be the right decision.

basically what I think lloyd is saying is that its about balance. yes your team should work together, but also with the best players possible. wheter or not that is what he means, i think this should be how teams are judged

LuckyLloyd

ditpoker wrote: »

so having successfully avoided answering my question... what is it we're trying to achieve with our picks, with our teams?? in your opinion??

Huh? Pick the best players that are available to you. Just because a footballer is talented doesn't mean that he can't also be a good team player and a hard worker on and off the field. The best team imo, will be a team full of winners. Guys who played well and were an inspiration to their colleagues through word or deed - or both.

And a start of Desailly and Vieira is clearly more winning than a start of Bruce and Pallister.

shoutman

So Jeff you just wanted to pick the United team from the nineties......

Andy Cole was very close to being my second pick, that said I hate him now that he demands to be called Andrew.....

ditpoker

firstly, i'm upset that pat had to be the voice of reason. pat is smarter than us.

secondly, and i'll let you do the research on this: compare and contrast the domestic success in the premiership of bruce and pallister vs desailly and viera for me. good boy!

Idu

Regarding the selection of Andy Cole the man himself can sum it up best:

LuckyLloyd

ditpoker wrote: »

secondly, and i'll let you do the research on this: compare and contrast the domestic success in the premiership of bruce and pallister vs desailly and viera for me. good boy!

Oh dear. Instead, why don't you contrast how good

Giggs, Beckham, Scholes, Keane, Schmeichel

were in comparison to:

Pires, Ljunberg, Parlour, Seamen, Petit

or:

Wise, Morris, De Gooy, Di Matteo, Poyet

Get it? Probably not. Do you struggle to tie shoelaces?

ditpoker

aha!!! 1-0 to me... my shoes DONT have shoelaces!!!!!

genericgoon

Terry and Pearce for Bohsman. Interesting choice. Two top quality centre backs no doubt, however I would have reservations over the compatibility of two no nonsense, hard hitting defenders like them together. The last few years seem to have shown that having that kind of defender with a calm,composed player with good positioning and who is good on the ball is the ideal selection.

bohsman

Yea, I would have been happier with Gerrard/Viera and one of Pearce/Terry/Adams then picking a decent partner for each later in the picks however I do think 2 no nonsense centre halves can work, Bruce and Pallister, Campbell and Adams for England etc.

Racing Flat

Great idea and threads, cheers lloyd.

As you are picking teams would it be an idea now that you are over the first round for fellows to identify their draft as follows


xxxx

xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx

xxxx 2Gerard xxxx xxxx

xxxx 1Shearer

or something like that so we can see the team evolving, rather than just picking a name?

RasTa

Hurry up as I'm off to Holland tommorow until Monday.

Mitch Connor

genericgoon wrote: »

Terry and Pearce for Bohsman. Interesting choice. Two top quality centre backs no doubt, however I would have reservations over the compatibility of two no nonsense, hard hitting defenders like them together. The last few years seem to have shown that having that kind of defender with a calm,composed player with good positioning and who is good on the ball is the ideal selection.

bohsman wrote: »

Yea, I would have been happier with Gerrard/Viera and one of Pearce/Terry/Adams then picking a decent partner for each later in the picks however I do think 2 no nonsense centre halves can work, Bruce and Pallister, Campbell and Adams for England etc.

I thought pearce was a left back, not a CB.

LuckyLloyd

We're waiting on Melion. Was he PM'd?

And Pearce played the bulk of his career as a left back. He did play center half for City and West Ham towards the end. Great player.

Iago

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

We're waiting on Melion. Was he PM'd?

And Pearce played the bulk of his career as a left back. He did play center half for City and West Ham towards the end. Great player.

yup, pm'ed him yesterday around 17.30.