These OAP marches

mike65

Jebus anyone listening to rte? Sounds like a riot, people fainting, FF speakers being shouted down. One would suspect they are enjoying thier moment in the sun, the government have climbed down and yet they vent thier rage.

Mob rule is no rule, and the way things are going the state is going to be ungovernable as government policies fold under force of an indignant howl.

Mike

mathie

mike65 wrote: »

Jebus anyone listening to rte? Sounds like a riot, people fainting, FF speakers being shouted down. One would suspect they are enjoying thier moment in the sun, the government have climbed down and yet they vent thier rage.

Mob rule is no rule, and the way things are going the state is going to be ungovernable as government policies fold under force of an indignant howl.

Mike

Enjoying their moment in the sun?
Are you serious?

The government hasn't fully climbed down.
They've set limits on the amount a person can have as an income.
And no prizes for quessing that the limit will be lowered and lowered over the coming years. Like everything the Government has done it'll be trickled in with minimum of fuss.

This protest isn't just about the medical card. It's about showing the Government how the people feel.

Zombrex

There is a big march though O'Connell street at the moment, though I'm not sure it is the OAP, it seems like students. I'm on middle abbey street and it sounds like it is all kicking off, lots of cheers and shouts and a few minutes ago a load of guards on motor bikes when screaming down Abbey street, I imagine from the station up by the Four Courts.

ah, just like the 80s ... happy days :pac:

luckat

Was down at the Dáil - massive crowd, cheering and shaking their sticks in the air. You've picked on the wrong people, Harney.

Kama

I for one welcome our Old Overlords?

podge79

mike65 wrote: »

Jebus anyone listening to rte? Sounds like a riot, people fainting, FF speakers being shouted down. One would suspect they are enjoying thier moment in the sun, the government have climbed down and yet they vent thier rage.

Mob rule is no rule, and the way things are going the state is going to be ungovernable as government policies fold under force of an indignant howl.

Mike

are people not allowed protest in a democracy? its not mob rule.... if they burnt down the dail then maybe... but merely protesting isnt mob rule!

mathie

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhidcwsnqlql/

Many fear the Government's move will lead to erosion of the planned income thresholds in the coming years and could also pose a threat to their free travel passes, fuel allowances and TV licence entitlements.

Boggle

Jebus anyone listening to rte? Sounds like a riot, people fainting, FF speakers being shouted down. One would suspect they are enjoying thier moment in the sun, the government have climbed down and yet they vent thier rage.

Mob rule is no rule, and the way things are going the state is going to be ungovernable as government policies fold under force of an indignant howl.

Mike

They have my backing. Whats the point of penalising the top 5% of people for doing well in life - especially when they'll probably use private services in most cases?? Answer is there is no point unless you plan to extend this to more and more older people...

...see the student protests. registration fees having been consistently rising since I was in college - something I'm sure people at the time said would never happen.

jhegarty

mathie wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhidcwsnqlql/

Many fear the Government's move will lead to erosion of the planned income thresholds in the coming years and could also pose a threat to their free travel passes, fuel allowances and TV licence entitlements.

exactly, Harney got asked in the Dail yesterday if the threshold could be changed by ministerial order , and she didn't answer...


i'd say their plan is to get the bill through, and have some excuse in January's / February why they need to move the thresholds back to the ones in the budget...

irish_bob

mike65 wrote: »

Jebus anyone listening to rte? Sounds like a riot, people fainting, FF speakers being shouted down. One would suspect they are enjoying thier moment in the sun, the government have climbed down and yet they vent thier rage.

Mob rule is no rule, and the way things are going the state is going to be ungovernable as government policies fold under force of an indignant howl.

Mike

the whole thing has descended into farce , theese people have gotten what they want , now they are merely protesting for the sake of it , ann manahan was on seogie a few minutes ago and gave the best performance of her life , a foreigner visiting the country watching the scenes and listening to the media would think the senior citizens of this country had witnessed the hollocaust

Breezer

irish_bob wrote: »

the whole thing has descended into farce , theese people have gotten what they want , now they are merely protesting for the sake of it , ann manahan was on seogie a few minutes ago and gave the best performance of her life , a foreigner visiting the country watching the scenes and listening to the media would think the senior citizens of this country had witnessed the hollocaust

What they want is a rollback on the entire scheme, not alterations and different income limits to those originally planned, which, as has been pointed out, can be changed at a later date. More power to them, they've shown far more backbone than our supposed leaders, who chose to pick on what they thought were easy targets.

Wicknight wrote:

There is a big march though O'Connell street at the moment, though I'm not sure it is the OAP, it seems like students. I'm on middle abbey street and it sounds like it is all kicking off, lots of cheers and shouts and a few minutes ago a load of guards on motor bikes when screaming down Abbey street, I imagine from the station up by the Four Courts.

That was a separate protest against the mooted return of 3rd level tuition fees. Though both groups of protesters were giving each other great support

nesf

jhegarty wrote: »

i'd say their plan is to get the bill through, and have some excuse in January's / February why they need to move the thresholds back to the ones in the budget...

I seriously doubt it after the reaction it got this time around. I'd say the pensioners have secured the vast majority of their medical cards for a good number of years here.

luckat wrote: »

You've picked on the wrong people, Harney.

If you actually believe this was a PD/Harney centric decision then you've swallowed FF spin hook, line and sinker.

djpbarry

Breezer wrote: »

That was a separate protest against the mooted return of 3rd level tuition fees. Though both groups of protesters were giving each other great support

I saw a few dolly birds on Grafton St wearing "No 2 Fees" t-shirts while carrying bags from Brown Thomas :rolleyes:.

I could smell the desperation*...



* The fragrance that is...

Boggle

the whole thing has descended into farce , theese people have gotten what they want ,

They want a complete reversal - no more, no less. When they get that and keep on protesting, then you may be justified in saying its a farce but until then only an idiot would accept this kind of platitude.

Its typical FF really, expect selfishness on the part of the elderly who think "at least I'm okay" to get the bill in and then slowly take all the medical cards with incremental decreases in the limit over time (much less likely to draw such wrath).

Remember college reg fees? They started low and look at them now...

I wonder how it feels for hardened FF supporters (who probably wanted to believe their party was a good one) to realise that their representatives really are the dirty scum that people said they were?? I only hope they get wiped out over this as a warning to future generations of political parties about political consequences.

djpbarry

Boggle wrote: »

I wonder how it feels for hardened FF supporters (who probably wanted to believe their party was a good one) to realise that their representatives really are the dirty scum that people said they were??

Shouldn't you include FG and Labour in that statement too, seeing as how they both opposed the scheme up to now (when it became politically advantageous not to)?

irish_bob

im not a ff supporter but im disgusted at how spineless the goverment has been on this issue , how we will ever get through this rescession when our leaders havent the nuts to follow through on a descision like this is beyond me

i for one am not willing to pay an extra 2% in tax just so some retired doctor or garda inspector can visit his gp for free

therewillbe

DID YE HEAR YOUR MAN KENNY FROM FG AT THE DEMO FOR THE BLUE RINCERS ? HE SOUNDED LIKE GIBSON IN BRAVEHEART AND BIG IAN , NO NO NO / NEVER NEVER OR WHATEVER. IN MY OPINION A PLONKER LIKE THE REST OF THEM. FAIR PLAY TO THE AUL BIDDIES. LONG LIVE THE REVOLUTION !:)

Breezer

nesf wrote: »

If you actually believe this was a PD/Harney centric decision then you've swallowed FF spin hook, line and sinker.

Did she resign as Minister? Did she so much as express reservations? No, she applauded Lenihan's budget with the rest of them and then went to a press conference with Brian Cowen to express her support for the initiative. This is a Government policy and all of them, FF, PD and Green, are equally accountable.

djpbarry wrote:

I saw a few dolly birds on Grafton St wearing "No 2 Fees" t-shirts while carrying bags from Brown Thomas .

"A few." I saw 10,000 students from all walks of life and across the political spectrum marching and not a Brown Thomas bag amongst them.

Shouldn't you include FG and Labour in that statement too, seeing as how they both opposed the scheme up to now (when it became politically advantageous not to)?

They opposed FF buying an election. And there's a big difference between not bringing a scheme in in the first place and cancelling it later, when people have built their lives around it.

nesf

Breezer wrote: »

Did she resign as Minister? Did she so much as express reservations? No, she applauded Lenihan's budget with the rest of them and then went to a press conference with Brian Cowen to express her support for the initiative.

And she's not standing in the next election so she makes a very convenient meat shield for the public hatred.

kaiser soza

They have picked on the wrong people here as Students being one myself will jump at the excuse to fight the power and old folks deserve better treatment,sack the Dail,why should we line their dirty pockets.

nesf

kaiser soza wrote: »

Students being one myself will jump at the excuse to fight the power

The Students have been very quiet for years in fairness. Only handfuls used to turn out for the protests about the level of the grant.

jill_valentine

The OAP protest was pretty cool. Lot more respect for my elders now...

kaiser soza

I didn't march today as I had lectures all afternoon, but most if not all colleges are off next week so something should take place then.

Crash

nesf wrote: »

The Students have been very quiet for years in fairness. Only handfuls used to turn out for the protests about the level of the grant.

That always used infuriate me - especially does now. Fees? out in a flash. people getting screwed over by the grant system? nah couldnt really care.

jill_valentine

Before, we could get by. Not this time, fees wouldn't just hurt our standard of living, it would shut a lot of us out of third level education altogether.

nesf

Going Forward wrote: »

That always used infuriate me - especially does now. Fees? out in a flash. people getting screwed over by the grant system? nah couldnt really care.

Pretty much my opinion of the whole thing. Reintroducing fees and increasing the grant ftw.

jill_valentine wrote: »

Before, we could get by. Not this time, fees wouldn't just hurt our standard of living, it would shut a lot of us out of third level education altogether.

A lot of people were being shut out of it before because of money issues. Fees will hurt the middle class, not those on the grant since they, most likely, will get a waiver on the fees anyway.

Crash

Cop out tbh Jill. The difference is it could hit a majority, but this is the first time the student movement has been in any way effective or united in years. I'm not gonna repeat my rant on another thread, but I will say that years involved in the education side of things from a student perspective led me to be very disenfranchised as to the general attitude of the average student, who seemed to have little to no concept of the value of the education they were receiving, and little care. Apathy runs scarily deep these days in the student body, and the only thing in the end that managed to shake it at all was the threat of disenfranchisement. Took a hell of a lot tbh.

Nesf wrote:

A lot of people were being shut out of it before because of money issues. Fees will hurt the middle class, not those on the grant since they, most likely, will get a waiver on the fees anyway.

Fees will hit the exact same people that got screwed over by the grant - those that are the borderline cases - a few quid too high on income, an outgoing which doesn't fall under the means test, a few hundred metres too close to the college. I don't think you'll see that changing for a fair while.

jill_valentine

I could maybe live with the reintroduction of fees if I had any faith whatsover that the grant would be brought up to meet the difference.

Crash

Tell you what, If there's no mention of some level of grant overhaul with whatever pile that O'Keefe comes out with in February (which knowing that eejit there probably won't be) I'll be out marching beside you

jill_valentine

lol, fair enough.

djpbarry

Breezer wrote: »

"A few." I saw 10,000 students from all walks of life and across the political spectrum marching and not a Brown Thomas bag amongst them.

All walks of life? Probably. But which “walk of life” do you suppose most of them come from? You’d have a hard time convincing me that the majority of students cannot afford to pay fees. Having said that, I would be opposed to their reintroduction without a major overhaul of the grant system.