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These OAP marches

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    #62
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    sovtek wrote: »
    Anyway wether you have lower taxes or not my point was that you don't get anything in return for the tax you do pay.
    Well that's a different matter entirely. But, at the end of the day, public services cost money and people cannot expect the same level of service that is offered elsewhere in Europe unless taxes are raised.
    sovtek wrote: »
    I heard recently that Ireland has about the lowest standard of living in western Europe.
    That's a fairly subjective statement. Where did you read that?
    sovtek wrote: »
    You probably have the worst public transport system...
    In Europe? I wouldn't say it's the worst. Far from the best, but certainly not the worst.
    sovtek wrote: »
    ...the worst health system, the roads are about the most dangerous in western europe...
    While the problems in the health system are not entirely funding related (much of it is to do with management), money (or lack of it) is still a factor. In the case of infrastructure, lack of investment is certainly a big problem.

    The point here is, once again, that while mismanagement of public funds has undoubtedly occurred in this country, I think some people grossly exaggerate what could have been achieved in this country with the revenue generated from the Celtic tiger. There's only so much that can be done in a low tax economy in 10 odd years.
    sovtek wrote: »
    There's a big ol' fat chunk of the problem. One trick pony that doesn't really work anymore.
    Doesn't it? You don't think raising the rate of corporation tax would have a seriously adverse effect on the economy?
    sovtek wrote: »
    They will cut things that don't need to be cut...like services.
    "They" will cut services if people are not prepared to pay for them.

    What would you do? Where would you get the money to not just maintain, but improve our public services?
    sovtek wrote: »
    Otherwise they could borrow it...just like the €400 billion.
    :rolleyes: Let it go.


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    #63
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Well that's a different matter entirely. But, at the end of the day, public services cost money and people cannot expect the same level of service that is offered elsewhere in Europe unless taxes are raised.

    How is it a different matter? If you have the money to bail out rich people without raising taxes then you should be able to provide a better infrastructure for the same. It's all about priorities really. Its obvious the priorities of this government.
    That's a fairly subjective statement. Where did you read that?

    It's not subjective. It was the release of a study done that was reported on a few months ago. I cannot remember the study though.

    In Europe? I wouldn't say it's the worst. Far from the best, but certainly not the worst.

    Defintely in western europe and even some ex Eastern Block newcomers to the EU. Name a place that is worse than Ireland in this regard.
    There's only so much that can be done in a low tax economy in 10 odd years.

    Firstly it's not been 10 years but more like thirty. Secondly this isn't a low tax economy.

    Doesn't it? You don't think raising the rate of corporation tax would have a seriously adverse effect on the economy?

    It's not going to make much difference because the multinationals time may very well be short anyway.
    The idea of FDI is to get it in when you are trying to grow your economy and use it to develop your infrastructure and your own local economy. The morons that run this place got the idea from someone else and don't seem to realize this. Now the companies are coming and going, taking more than they give and will leave when it no longer benefits them. Because they've done next to nothing to improve the local economy you are still having to rely on FDI.
    "They" will cut services if people are not prepared to pay for them.

    Who isn't willing to pay for them?
    You could get the money from the bonuses of the people that made this financial mess for starters.
    :rolleyes: Let it go.

    Ain't going to happen because it's fundamental to the problem being faced at the moment.
    We are punished when the people at the top and their buddies that run this placed are bailed out. Until that trend changes this things will only get worse.


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    #64
    ANarcho-Munk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭ANarcho-Munk


    I really dont know why everyone is moaning.

    Isn't all Fine Fail are trying to do is to make the wealthy people who can actually afford medical costs to pay for them?
    Sure up until now Haughey could walk in and slap his medical card on the desk in front of his doctor. What about Ben Dunne, Bono, Bill Cullen and the rest of the gang? Do people really expect to be giving them free medical care when their time comes?

    And the neck of Labour to be pouncing on their oppurtunity to criticise FF, just to gain popularity among older voters.

    So basically, cuts in medical cards = no medical cards for the rich.



    The student protests were also a joke. Where the OAP's seemed to have urgency about their situation, the students just think their in some sort of Macnas parade.
    Are they actually prepared to even do anything? Are they going to refuse to pay fee's? Are they actually going to vehemently oppose the situation and keep on organising meaningful action?
    To be honest, it seems far from it.


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    #65
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    ANarcho-Munk wrote: »

    So basically, cuts in medical cards = no medical cards for the rich.

    Someone who makes €36k is not rich.


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    #66
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    sovtek wrote: »
    If you have the money to bail out rich people...
    Who's been bailed out? You talking about the banks again? The bank guarantee that has actually made the state money?
    sovtek wrote: »
    It was the release of a study done that was reported on a few months ago. I cannot remember the study though.
    In which case I will disregard your point.
    sovtek wrote: »
    Defintely in western europe and even some ex Eastern Block newcomers to the EU. Name a place that is worse than Ireland in this regard.
    I travelled by train between Sofia, Budapest, Prague and Berlin in August of this year. Iarnród Éireann's intercity services are luxury by comparison, the Dublin-Cork service in particular.
    sovtek wrote: »
    Firstly it's not been 10 years but more like thirty.
    Eh, what? Are you saying Ireland's economy has been "booming" for 30 years? You obviously haven’t been living here very long, have you?
    sovtek wrote: »
    Secondly this isn't a low tax economy.
    By European standards, yes, it is.
    sovtek wrote: »
    Who isn't willing to pay for them?
    Have you looked at the subject matter of this thread?
    sovtek wrote: »
    You could get the money from the bonuses of the people that made this financial mess for starters.
    Really? TD's bonuses amount to €15 billion, do they?


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