Guns N Roses Chinese Democracy Single Released

kona

ShawnRaven wrote: »

This made me laugh. Appetite was one of the albums that smashed away from the whole Poison, Winger era. To say nobody noticed it silly.

Lol, what, you trying to say GNR Lies was the album that got them noticed? Because people had heard of them long before Use Your Illusions were released!

You seriously underestimate that album. GNR had a fairly large following before they toured with Motley Crue, just for your information, if they hadn't toured with Motley Crue, it would have happened on the subsequent tour with The Cult.

No you have read my post wrong in your haste.

I said gnr got big with appetite BUT it didnt happen immediatley.

Appetite almost flopped and MTV refused to play the welcome video( the 1st video from appetite)

They got big when they toured with the crüe and THEN MTV played the video and then appetite went number1.

Sorry to tell you you enjoy a hairmetal band but gnr from the appetite era are hairmetal.

I'll agree that appetite was probably the freshest 80 la metal album since shout at the devil. But it wouldnt take much to have more edge than poison or winger!!

Nirvana was the band that changed the direction not guns n roses. Look at the welcome to the jungle video and tell me the band isnt dressed like the stereotypical hairmetal band

Doctor J

You're saying WASP sounded like Guns N Roses?

The thing about the first Guns N Roses album is that it didn't sound like all those bands you spouted off, a large part of its success was that it sounded different to the ****e which had become the norm at that time. Yes, they had a pouffy hair image prior to 88 but they certainly didn't sound like Posion or Britney Fox at any stage and, therefore, it is incorrect to lump them all in as sounding like a particular genre on the strength of a hairstyle when they just don't sound like each other at all.

kona

Doctor J wrote: »

You're saying WASP sounded like Guns N Roses?

There are similarities but wasp is a far superior band to gnr. Axl wouldnt **** like a beast nor would he have the balls to have a show like blakie lawless.

In fairness its a poor comparison wasp had more shock rock than gnr had.

They did both have overdoses of drugs sex and rock and roll.

Now Gnr do have influence from the crüe and alot of the bands crüe draw influence from such as Hanoi rocks, Acdc , queen, new york dolls, cheap trick etc.


But yes gnr had the same look as crüe did for girls and same sound.

Gnr had the same look as wasp from around the electric circuis album

A Primal Nut

Just to correct some facts in this thread -

begoodkindtrue wrote: »

If one more person comes to know the plight of Falun Gong in China (arrest, re-education camps, torture, organ harvesting and subsequent sale) then Axl will have done a very good thing.

One thing Chinese Democracy is not about is Democracy in China. He uses the the falun gong as a metaphor for his own rebelliousness. Sort of like how Madagascar has nothing to do with Martin Luther King, Jr. But I suppose it could have the effect you said.

Guns N' Roses came from the hair metal scene and most of the time looked like a hair metal band. However their music was good - very good in fact, whereas was Hair Metal was **** and cheesy for the most part. I wouldn't say its a massive difference in style, but its so much better that it can be considered alongside the stones, zeppelin, etc, rather than Ratt and Wasp. Just because they came from the same city at the same time and looked the same, doesn't mean the music should be lumped into the same genre.

The reason Slash was not chosen for Poison was because he didn't look the part - of course he's a better guitarist, even Brett Michaels admitted playing ability had nothing to do with the choice - compare the solo on Every Rose Has Its Thorn (which sums up the cheesiness of the hairmetal era) with November Rain.

And Guns N' Roses never had a song like Girls, Girls, Girls.

JC 2K3

Lol, hair metal.

Just because GNR looked a bit like a hair metal band doesn't mean they sounded remotely like one.

Anyway, this is a completely different band, comparisions with old GNR stuff should not be made. And to call Chinese Democracy "soft rock" is both extremely vague and horrifically innacurate...

A Primal Nut

Just want to say one thing that I don't think anyone can dispute - this is the best album for guitar players in a long, long time. When is the last time you bought a new release and wanted to learn all the songs. Its got shred, both messy and structured, blues, rockin' solos, epic, and even some crazy flamenco ****. From a purely lead guitar point of view, its probably the most varied album I've ever heard. Buckethead is on fire, and Finck though limited, pulls off some good Slash impersonations, most notably on This I Love. Wasn't sure about the solo at first, but find myself humming it from start to finish now. There Was A Time is one of the most incredible solos ever.

Its brilliant that in spite of all the trends in the 17 years since the last release of original material; grunge, nu-metal, industrial pop punk, etc. (some of Axl was accused of following) which all but killed the guitar solo, Axl never went down that route and wasn't afraid to have loads of epic lead guitar on the album; many times he is over-shadowed by his guitar players, which goes against his ego-driven reputation.

There aren't so many classic riffs as I'd like - Better is the best rock riff on here - Chinese Democracy has a nice one too, which was written by a drummer, Josh Freese. IRS riff has grown on me a bit; other than that the songs are chord-progression based.

kona

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Just to correct some facts in this thread -



One thing Chinese Democracy is not about Democracy in China. He uses the the falun gong as a metaphor for his own rebelliousness. Sort of like how Madagascar has nothing to do with Martin Luther King, Jr. But I suppose it could have the effect you said.

Guns N' Roses came from the hair metal scene and most of the time looked like a hair metal. However their music was good - very good in fact, whereas was Hair Metal was **** and cheesy for the most part. I wouldn't say its a massive difference in style, but its so much better that it can be considered alongside the stones, zeppelin, etc, rather than Ratt and Wasp. Just because they came from the same city at the same time and looked the same, doesn't mean the music should be lumped into the same genre.

Slash was not chosen for poison because he didn't look the part - of course he's a better guitarist, Brett Michaels admitted that had nothing to do with the choice - compare the solo on Every Rose Has Its Thorn (which sums up the cheesiness of the hairmetal era) with Noevember Rain.

And Guns N' Roses never had a song like Girls, Girls, Girls.

I'd agree with you for the most part. Yes there are some shocking hairmetal bands that ruined the genre but not all hairmetal is **** tbh. Gnr are good but they are hairmetal, deal with it, hairmetal can be good too.


On the song rocket queen you can hear Axl ****ing adlers girlfriend in the background now thats motley.

That album is hairmetal. GNR changed their look soon after, IMO to get away from the **** that was ruining the genre. Motley and wasp did similar and kiss put their original make up back on

Doctor J

Enough of this hairmetal nonsense. Grouping bands based on a hairstyle is the worst example of sad and lazy journalism and has as much point as calling them carmetal because they all used to use a car to get around in or meatmetal because they ate burgers on a Tuesday.

ShawnRaven

kona wrote: »

Appetite almost flopped and MTV refused to play the welcome video( the 1st video from appetite)

It never was anywhere near flopping. If Welcome To The Jungle had flopped as a single, there were several on the album to capitalise on it.

They got big when they toured with the crüe and THEN MTV played the video and then appetite went number1.[/qupte]

Wouldn't have mattered, would have happened a year later with Lies when Patience made it to #1, causing a mass buy of Appetite as a result anyway.

Sorry to tell you you enjoy a hairmetal band but gnr from the appetite era are hairmetal.

Sorry to tell you that i ADMIT that i enjoy a lot of hair metal bands, but GNR weren't hair metal.

I'll agree that appetite was probably the freshest 80 la metal album since shout at the devil. But it wouldnt take much to have more edge than poison or winger!!

Crue had bigger success with Dr Feelgood, too bad that came out AFTER Appetite eh?

Nirvana was the band that changed the direction not guns n roses. Look at the welcome to the jungle video and tell me the band isnt dressed like the stereotypical hairmetal band

Nirvana weren't exactly groundbreaking. GNR were packing out Stadiums left right and centre while Nirvana were barely able to do ampitheatres to support Bleach.

And the band isn't dressed like a hairmetal band, Axl backcombed his hair. The rest of the band look pretty much the same in the rest of the Appetite videos

Quit trolling, you're out of your depth here.

kona

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Lol, hair metal.

Just because GNR looked a bit like a hair metal band doesn't mean they sounded remotely like one.

Anyway, this is a completely different band, comparisions with old GNR stuff should not be made. And to call Chinese Democracy "soft rock" is both extremely vague and horrifically innacurate...

hairmetal is a term used to describe bands from the 80s with huge hair, leather, make up, denim, studs etc etc etc.

Its takes into account NOTHING to do with a bands musical talents.

BTW street of dreams sounds like a title to a ****ing bon jovi song.


Calling chinese democracy soft rock is a opinion, when i played it, then appetite straight after, thats what i thought. its not vague at all.

chinese democracy just seems hard to you because most rock/metal released in the last 2 decades has been utter diluted ****e.(emo anybody??)

My ipod is full of thrash and 80s hardrock, chinese democracy playing after welcome to the jungle or paradise city just makes it look like a limp, flacid cock tbh.

I think there is a "stigma" attached to liking hairmetal i this country, people are afraid it makes them look like saps or what have ya.

the 80s produced some of the best metal bands ever, the fact that 2008 saw most of the big 80s band releasing new material and going top10 says alot about the state of rock at the min.

The only recent rock bands worth a metion at the min are the nordic "hairmetal bands" and airbourne.

kona

ShawnRaven wrote: »

It never was anywhere near flopping. If Welcome To The Jungle had flopped as a single, there were several on the album to capitalise on it.

They got big when they toured with the crüe and THEN MTV played the video and then appetite went number1.[/qupte]

Wouldn't have mattered, would have happened a year later with Lies when Patience made it to #1, causing a mass buy of Appetite as a result anyway.



Sorry to tell you that i ADMIT that i enjoy a lot of hair metal bands, but GNR weren't hair metal.



Crue had bigger success with Dr Feelgood, too bad that came out AFTER Appetite eh?



Nirvana weren't exactly groundbreaking. GNR were packing out Stadiums left right and centre while Nirvana were barely able to do ampitheatres to support Bleach.

And the band isn't dressed like a hairmetal band, Axl backcombed his hair. The rest of the band look pretty much the same in the rest of the Appetite videos

Quit trolling, you're out of your depth here.

nope dude, you just are not getting what im saying.

maybe delete hairmetal from your brain and re-read you will understand me more:rolleyes:

WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE WAS THE FIRST SINGLE RELEASED, THE FIRST VIDEO FROM APPETITE, THAT SONG MADE THEM, THEM THE NEXT FEW YEARS SAW THE VIDEOS FOR PARADISE CITY, SWEET CHILD .


believe me im not out of my depth talking to ignorant music snobs.

Early GnR is Hairmetal and its good get over it:pac:

all i said was Early GnR was Hairmetal I gave you facts, i gave you examples.

Then i said IMO chinese democracy is soft compared to appetite, but a good album none the less.

Im not trolling, your just getting pissed off because GnR are hairmetal, and they are good and you like them,

Stella89

Man Arrested For Demanding Chinese Democracy
by James Barron, New York Times, posted 1 hour ago.

Lawrence Reilly from Queens, New York was arrested early Tuesday evening for disorderly conduct inside the Virgin Megastore at the Times Square section of Manhattan for reportedly demanding a copy of the new Guns N' Roses album "Chinese Democracy."
Witnesses say Reilly was racing back and forth in the New Releases section of the store where he carelessly knocked over and threw down cds from the shelves in an attempt to find the new disc that was released by the band on Sunday, November 23.
When a worker came over to assist Reilly the situation became more volatile as Reilly was told that the disc was not available at the Virgin Megastore. Guns N' Roses have a deal with electronics store Best Buy where the album is exclusively being sold.
"He began cursing and yelling and becoming more and more agitated by the second," said John Garvey, a customer in the store at the time who first became aware of Reilly when he was bumped from behind. "I was looking through the new release section when I was suddenly slammed in the back. When I turned around to see what had happened, I noticed him (Reilly) behind me grabbing cds and moving them off the display shelves."

Other workers at the store began to notice the commotion and confronted Reilly according to store manager, Kent Debnam. "He began to yell threats and obscenities at the workers," said Debnam, reading from a report of the incident in which Reilly allegedly shouted, "I'll punch your lights out right here and right now," while allegedly shaking his fists at them.

"He kept demanding to be sold the album 'Chinese Democracy' and refused to listen to the reason as to why the album was not being sold at our location," Debnam said. When told that if he did not calm down security and the police would have to be called he reportedly said, "I don't give a (expletive) who you are. You are all little people on a power trip."

Police arrived soon after when Reilly said "Just arrest me."

According to police, Reilly was arrested at approximately 7:45 p.m. on Tuesday, and was released by 11 p.m.

Reilly was charged with a class one misdemeanor, the highest kind next to a felony. A conviction on this charge would merit either a $2,500 fine and/or six months in jail. Reilly will be arraigned in ten days and go before a judge, who will decide which it will be.

Stella89

LOve this album!! . It gets better and "better" with each listen . That frenzied guitar playing is awesome , so much better than the generic radio rock out these days . Pity no one promoted this album properly:(:confused: . Wheres Axl?

ShawnRaven

kona wrote: »

nope dude, you just are not getting what im saying.

Probably because what you're saying makes f*ck all sense.

maybe delete hairmetal from your brain and re-read you will understand me more:rolleyes:

Oooh getting personal now, someone's losing it already

WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE WAS THE FIRST SINGLE RELEASED, THE FIRST VIDEO FROM APPETITE, THAT SONG MADE THEM, THEM THE NEXT FEW YEARS SAW THE VIDEOS FOR PARADISE CITY, SWEET CHILD .

I'm aware of the chronological order of the singles released, kid. I bought em , what's your point?

believe me im not out of my depth talking to ignorant music snobs.

Clearly you are as i ain't no music snob :pac:

Early GnR is Hairmetal and its good get over it:pac:

Nooo, early GnR is Hollywood Rose, which would be more classified uner post punk.

all i said was Early GnR was Hairmetal I gave you facts, i gave you examples.

No, you gave your warped opinions, passing them off as facts, especially Welcome To The Jungle video being banned, when in actually it was most requested in 1987.

Then i said IMO chinese democracy is soft compared to appetite, but a good album none the less.

I didn't call you on that one. I was one of the first to say it wasn't gonna be heavy as their previous stuff. Maybe look back on the first few pages of the thread?

Im not trolling, your just getting pissed off because GnR are hairmetal, and they are good and you like them,

Who's pissed off? I think your warped, incorrect views are absolutely hilarious. I haven't read comedy like this in quite some time.

JC 2K3

kona wrote: »

hairmetal is a term used to describe bands from the 80s with huge hair, leather, make up, denim, studs etc etc etc.

Its takes into account NOTHING to do with a bands musical talents.

So if that's your understanding of the term, why is it at all relevent?

Do you accept that despite looking vaguely like a hair metal band, GNR sounded pretty damn different to the likes of Motley Crue, Poison, WASP etc. ?

kona wrote: »

My ipod is full of thrash and 80s hardrock, chinese democracy playing after welcome to the jungle or paradise city just makes it look like a limp, flacid cock tbh.

Some of us are comfortable enough with our sexuality not to have to think of music in terms of cocks, tbh...

kona

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Probably because what you're saying makes f*ck all sense.

It makes plenty of sense, if you arnt trying to find a way out of calling early GnR hairmetal

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Oooh getting personal now, someone's losing it already

nope not getting personal, i havnt insulted you have i???:D

ShawnRaven wrote: »

I'm aware of the chronological order of the singles released, kid. I bought em , what's your point?

My point is in the first video they are hairmetal, then the other videos were made maybe a year later, and the band is sporting a fairly different look, although paradise city is quite hairmetal, they were touring with aerosmith FFS:p




Clearly you are as i ain't no music snob :pac:[/QUOTE]

suppose i am, but im giving you facts on this and you are ignoring them;)

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Nooo, early GnR is Hollywood Rose, which would be more classified uner post punk.

your calling me warped??, that is a blantent bull**** comment to make yourself look smart. Please know your ****. hollywood rose couldnt be any further from post punk its unreal, post punk bands are the cure, joy division for example, this genre had a major influence on new wave,....now i dont recall hollywood rose wearing skinny ties and being crap:rolleyes:

hollywood rose came waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay after post punk in the late 70s;)

ShawnRaven wrote: »

No, you gave your warped opinions, passing them off as facts, especially Welcome To The Jungle video being banned, when in actually it was most requested in 1987.

PLEASE find my post were i said it was banned, I never said that ever, again read my posts properly and without the blind rage.

I said, it wasnt succesful at first and MTV REFUSED to play it(not because it was OTT because they thought it was ****, although it was very nearly banned).
After they toured with the crue and went from having a large club/scene following in LA , to being a known band, the video was played. it was NEVER banned It then went to most requested.

ShawnRaven wrote: »

I didn't call you on that one. I was one of the first to say it wasn't gonna be heavy as their previous stuff. Maybe look back on the first few pages of the thread?

I did, i agree with you on that;)

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Who's pissed off? I think your warped, incorrect views are absolutely hilarious. I haven't read comedy like this in quite some time.

youre the one who is incorrect, dont think your warped but i sure as hell aint.
buy a book, read it.
If you find what im saying funny, you should really get out.:eek:

kona

JC 2K3 wrote: »

So if that's your understanding of the term, why is it at all relevent?

Do you accept that despite looking vaguely like a hair metal band, GNR sounded pretty damn different to the likes of Motley Crue, Poison, WASP etc. ?

GnR didnt look vaguely like a hairmetal band, they were a hairmetal band, if you think they vaguely looked like one, i suppose we can whack 80s whitesnake, def leppard etc into that vague group???

November rain(GnR 1991).........Home sweet home(1985 motley crue), piano...yup...huge solo...yup....ballad...yup.

quite similar, only difference is home sweet home was a most requested video(it actually had to have a rule made to reduce the amount of time it was on air), and it doesnt go on for a eternity.

I find it insulting you have lumped the crue and wasp in with poison.

Poison are cheese, along with alot of other ****e, the crue and wasp have serious talent, just look at the material.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Some of us are comfortable enough with our sexuality not to have to think of music in terms of cocks, tbh...

Im the one who listens to hairmetal, i think im quite comfy with me sexuality , thanks for dragging this to the bottom,

You never argue with a idiot, they bring you down to their level, and beat you with stupidity.:rolleyes:

grames_bond

kona wrote: »

Poison are cheese, along with alot of other ****e, the crue and wasp have serious talent, just look at the material.

Slash was very nearly in poison before he joined GnR, he turned them down coz he considered them a hair metal band which is the opposite of what he wanted to be in.....then GnR wer very hairy :pac:

IMO GnR being considered a hairmetal band is totally different fro mthem being considered sh!t, there are some brilliant "hairmetal" bands, and GnR were one of them (at least for a while anyway!

kona wrote: »

You never argue with a idiot, they bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.:rolleyes:

Fyp there man!

ShawnRaven

kona wrote: »

It makes plenty of sense, if you arnt trying to find a way out of calling early GnR hairmetal

We're gonna have to agree to disagree on the grounds of utter stupidity, especially as GNR aren't hair metal.

nope not getting personal, i havnt insulted you have i???:D

Insinuating that poster is having issues reading is an insult to me.

My point is in the first video they are hairmetal, then the other videos were made maybe a year later, and the band is sporting a fairly different look, although paradise city is quite hairmetal, they were touring with aerosmith FFS:p

Um, Aerosmith are classic rock, not hair metal!? They sure as hell weren't classified as hair metal during Permanent Vacation and Pump!

suppose i am, but im giving you facts on this and you are ignoring them;)

No, you're passing off your opinions as facts, there's a difference. Especially the hairmetal part.

your calling me warped??, that is a blantent bull**** comment to make yourself look smart. Please know your ****. hollywood rose couldnt be any further from post punk its unreal, post punk bands are the cure, joy division for example, this genre had a major influence on new wave,....now i dont recall hollywood rose wearing skinny ties and being crap:rolleyes:

hollywood rose came waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay after post punk in the late 70s;)

Try not to have a heart attack there, kid.

PLEASE find my post were i said it was banned, I never said that ever, again read my posts properly and without the blind rage.

I said, it wasnt succesful at first and MTV REFUSED to play it(not because it was OTT because they thought it was ****, although it was very nearly banned).
After they toured with the crue and went from having a large club/scene following in LA , to being a known band, the video was played. it was NEVER banned It then went to most requested.

That insinuates that they banned it. And MTV NEVER refused to play it, they just kept it after the Watershed. Please get your facts straight.

youre the one who is incorrect, dont think your warped but i sure as hell aint.
buy a book, read it.
If you find what im saying funny, you should really get out.:eek:

How about buying a brain, and using it?

Tigger

i like wasp aerosmith and gnr

there i said it

do feel they are a different genre to megadeth/xentrix/pantera/testemant/anthrax etc but i don't think one is better

you can put aetrosmith/ gnr on in a car withna random group and they'll calol out i lovebthis one turn it up

not so much with killing is my business

so they are accesable metal

sure chinese democracy is no appeti5te but who really maintains their skillz after the millions roll in metallica are down hill faster and faster since master (sic)
megadeth have slightly regained a slide since countdown maiden since seventh son but neither have reached thoose heights again

st after art opf rebellion are frankly ****e and theyre side project infectious grooves was good for two albums and then got very samey

slayer slowed right down after releasing decade, anthrax had an (among theliving renunion) reset where they tried to erase 15 years and sean connery hasn't made a good film since the name of the rose

JC 2K3

kona wrote: »

November rain(GnR 1991).........Home sweet home(1985 motley crue), piano...yup...huge solo...yup....ballad...yup.

quite similar, only difference is home sweet home was a most requested video(it actually had to have a rule made to reduce the amount of time it was on air), and it doesnt go on for a eternity.

1. By the Illusions, any claims that GNR were a hair metal band have little or no basis.
2. November Rain and Home Sweet Home are completely different styles, I don't understand how you can't hear that....

kona wrote: »

Im the one who listens to hairmetal, i think im quite comfy with me sexuality , thanks for dragging this to the bottom,

You're the one who mentioned cocks....

nadir

I fail to see how any of this is relevant to the thread. Don't feed the trolls, who cares if someone calls it hair metal or whatever...
Their image certainly helped them sell more albums, but that's hardly a bad thing so long as the music was decent.

after hearing chinese democracy i did what i avoided for years....
i listened to some velvet revolver - damn some good stuff there!
I also went and listened to some of the bands solo stuff Duff, Izzy, Slash, Gilby and even Dizzy!!

However who blew me away the most was ......shockingly as I knew nothing about the guitarist...... BUCKETHEAD !! WTF the dude wears a kfc box yet he is an amazing guitarist....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adV8-_hgL4g&feature=related

proof ^^

MagicMarker

I tried to give it another chance, I really did try. However it is easily one of the worst albums I have ever heard.... ever!!

I'll give it one more go, think I'll start with the last track and work my way back.

KrazeeEyezKilla

I used to think Buckethead was a joke. I was shocked by how good he was when I first heard TWAT. Listening to some of his stuff on YouTube is a real eye opener. That video is great. I like this one even more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwXlzy9k7jI&feature=related

RonMexico

Buckethead is amazing. His persona is hilarious too, the things he does as Buckethead are bat**** crazy sometimes. I'd love to see him back in GNR - I think he only left because of the bands inactivity. I'd say there is a reasonable chance he will be back for a tour.

Ardent

Give me Slash over Buckethead any day. I prefer guitar players with a bit of soul in their playing.

ShawnRaven

Ardent wrote: »

Give me Slash over Buckethead any day. I prefer guitar players with a bit of soul in their playing.

Problem with Slash is, you hear one solo, you've heard em all.
Sorry, but someone had to say it.

JC 2K3

Buckethead is as soulful, if not moreso than Slash.

lord lucan

Ardent wrote: »

Give me Slash over Buckethead any day. I prefer guitar players with a bit of soul in their playing.

+1. buckethead hasn't a patch on the legend that is slash imho.:cool: