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Remembrance Sunday = PoPpY DaY

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    #122
    Voipjunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Voipjunkie


    Camelot wrote: »

    Foreign Army me Bum - They didnt join a 'foreign Army' Voipjunkie- they joined the British Army!

    But as they were Irish that would make the BRITISH army a foreign army. In fact worse than just a foreign army the army of the occupying power in Ireland.


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    #123
    Serenity Now!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    The problem for me is that it commemorates ALL of Britains war dead not just the First World War that includes its war dead in Ireland and from its various colonial wars around the world.
    Whilst you may not see the political conutation of that to most Irish people it is clear and that is why the vast majority of Irish people do not wear that symbol even though they may have had relatives that died in one or other war

    But as they were Irish that would make the BRITISH army a foreign army. In fact worse than just a foreign army the army of the occupying power in Ireland.
    Zzzzzzzzzz.............:rolleyes:
    Since you're speaking for an entire island, allow me to retort with an equally reciprocative and speculative reason: They don't wear the poppy because of the possibility of some plastic republican snoozer on the street taking a swipe at them.


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    #124
    Voipjunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Voipjunkie


    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    Zzzzzzzzzz.............:rolleyes:
    Since you're speaking for an entire island, allow me to retort with an equally reciprocative and speculative reason: They don't wear the poppy because of the possibility of some plastic republican snoozer on the street taking a swipe at them.


    I never claimed to speak for the entire island but I have never heard anyone saying they were afraid to wear a poppy and I have never heard of anyone being attacked for wearing one but speculate away to your hearts content


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    #125
    Serenity Now!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    I never claimed to speak for the entire island but I have never heard anyone saying they were afraid to wear a poppy and I have never heard of anyone being attacked for wearing one but speculate away to your hearts content
    #

    No, of course you didn't. Maybe not an entire island, just a helluva lot of people living on it.........:rolleyes:
    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    The problem for me is that it commemorates ALL of Britains war dead not just the First World War that includes its war dead in Ireland and from its various colonial wars around the world.
    Whilst you may not see the political conutation of that to most Irish people it is clear


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    #126
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    remember the moneys made from the sale of the poppys goes to the upkeep of the graves of the soldiers both irish and commonwealth dead


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    #127
    MarchDub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭MarchDub


    TCP/IP wrote: »
    I for one will be wearing a poppy with pride. For me it is a symbol of remembering people who cares weither they are Irish or english or any other amount of countries that had citizens who died in battle. It is about human sacrifise.

    But it is almost impossible to get away from the politics of it all - "commemorating war" in the guise of "commemorating the dead of war" is akin to George Bush's clever bumper sticker narrative that developed around the Iraq War as "Support the Troops" - this canny usage was meant to shut down all discussion on the wisdom of the Iraq War. It succeeded for quite some time.

    The Poppy symbol is IMO likewise a "support for war as a solution to global problems" mask. It perpetuates the notion that dying in war is "heroic". If this is a numbers game as some on the boards seem to suggest - endlessly quoting the number of Irish war dead - we have worse numbers. As Irish people we lost one and half million people to the Famine - how about developing symbols around that to wear on our coats?


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    #128
    Voipjunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Voipjunkie


    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    #

    No, of course you didn't. Maybe not an entire island, just a helluva lot of people living on it.........:rolleyes:

    Well my explanation makes a lot more sense than your proposal that a couple of provos are preventing the entire population from wearing the poppy :rolleyes: oh look I can use the rolleyes smiley as well.

    BTW I notice you were not to concerned about posters speaking on behalf of the entire british population:rolleyes: and another rolleyes as well wow it really strenghtens the arguement doesn't it.


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    #129
    Voipjunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Voipjunkie


    getz wrote: »
    remember the moneys made from the sale of the poppys goes to the upkeep of the graves of the soldiers both irish and commonwealth dead


    So whats the point


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    #130
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Buy one - that's the point ..............


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    #131
    TOMASJ
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭TOMASJ


    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    Zzzzzzzzzz.............:rolleyes:
    Since you're speaking for an entire island, allow me to retort with an equally reciprocative and speculative reason: They don't wear the poppy because of the possibility of some plastic republican snoozer on the street taking a swipe at them.
    whatever about a plastic republican snoozer on the street taking a swipe for wearing the poppy,

    I am aware of at least one case in the not to distance past of catholic relatives of a RC soldier from Co Tyrone who was killed in WW2 being told not to attend a poppy laying service because of there religion, (could this be referred to as poppy snoozing brits) not much thanks there for the ultimate sacrifice


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    #132
    Erin Go Brath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Erin Go Brath


    I think it is inappropriate for any Irish person to wear the poppy. Wearing a poppy and you are effectively commemorating British war criminals which include the executers of our very own 1916 patriots, the black and tans, and other crown forces who have waged war against Ireland and commited crimes against her nationhood.

    If people want to commemorate relatives etc who died fighting in the World War thats fair enough. I think attending a service to commemorate them is appropriate. Perhaps a neutral symbol would be better, a shamrock, the easter lily etc. Its possible to remember the Irish fallen in these wars without showing tacit support for the imperialist forces that helped wage these wars!


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    #133
    It wasn't me!
    Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    Perhaps a neutral symbol would be better, a shamrock, the easter lily etc.

    These are neutral symbols?


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    #134
    Voipjunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Voipjunkie


    Camelot wrote: »
    Buy one - that's the point ..............

    Not a hope


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    #135
    Voipjunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Voipjunkie


    getz wrote: »
    remember the moneys made from the sale of the poppys goes to the upkeep of the graves of the soldiers both irish and commonwealth dead


    BTW the money also goes to support British soldiers from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    So your money is supporting those involved in the criminal illegal invasion and occupation of a sovereign country.


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    #136
    It wasn't me!
    Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Afghanistan has a UN mandate behind it.


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    #137
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    It wasn't me! wrote: »
    Afghanistan has a UN mandate behind it.

    Whoah, at leat Mugabe and the Saudi's and other tinpot dicatators are fully behind it.

    That's a relief.


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    #138
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    For the sake of a stupid question, instead of wearing a poppy or not wearing a bloody poppy, why not just show up at the local Rememberance Service, Ceremony, Parade, Garden or whatever the heck is going on at your local area, wearing whatever it is you want?

    I think it means more anyway.
    It perpetuates the notion that dying in war is "heroic".

    John 15:13, anyone?

    NTM


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    #139
    tallus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,324 ✭✭✭tallus


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    For the sake of a stupid question, instead of wearing a poppy or not wearing a bloody poppy, why not just show up at the local Rememberance Service, Ceremony, Parade, Garden or whatever the heck is going on at your local area, wearing whatever it is you want?

    I think it means more anyway.



    John 15:13, anyone?

    NTM
    Good post.
    People could donate the money without actually taking the symbol (be it poppy or whatever) and still feel like they are doing their bit for the people who gave their lives for whatever reason.


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    #140
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    BTW the money also goes to support British soldiers from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. So your money is supporting those involved in the criminal illegal invasion and occupation of a sovereign country.

    Your facts are incorrect - please see Post#8 + Post#21.


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    #141
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Camelot wrote: »
    Which means? Ireland offered up 250K Men - & 50 thousand were killed (the ones you dont care about)!

    A big chunk of these 'Irish' were from the Unionist tradition up north and would be insulted to be associated with anything Irish like present day Unionists.
    Camelot wrote: »
    Foreign Army me Bum - They didnt join a 'foreign Army' Voipjunkie- they joined the British Army!

    Now, you've exposed you're loyalties here. This post says to a reader that you have no loyalty to this state and its defenders the Irish army.

    Regarding WW1, my grandpa like thousands of others did serve in the battlefields wearing a British army uniform fighting for what Redmond wanted, home rule for Ireland. They were not fighting to be British or loyalty to Britain.
    Then granpops came home once his tour of duty was finished and immediately took arms in our War Of Independence which secured mine and your freedom from Britain.

    July 11th is the Irish ceremony for himself and his comrades. A British ceremony wearing an Unionist symbol like the poppy is not needed here for the fallen Irish.

    Do you also commemorate with such passion our heroic freedom fighters who died for you in the War Of Independence??


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    #142
    leninbenjamin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,983 ✭✭✭leninbenjamin


    **** sake. is it that time of the year again? fed up of all these stupid and circular discussions on it. last years didn't go anywhere. the year before that didn't go anywhere... at the end of the day why the f*ck does it matter?

    anyone want to start a pool as to when this thing will get locked?


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    #143
    madden1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭madden1


    Poccington wrote: »
    Mercenaries? A large portion of Irish soldiers that served and died in the Great War did so as they believed that it would help us gain Home Rule. Then there was those that went over in defence of another small nations freedom. You all harp on about "Oh those mean Brits invaded us" yet when it happens another small country and some Irishmen decide to go over and do their part to free that nation, their sacrifice is not worth honouring.

    To even mention those men in the same sentence as mercenaries is a disgrace.
    most of these Irish men who fought in the 1st AND 2nd WW had no loyalty of any kind to the English, as I said they only went for the money as times were hard in Ireland back then,
    those that came back from these wars and fought in the IRA were volunteers, fought and died for not a cent.


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    #144
    Mad Finn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 366 ✭✭Mad Finn


    leninbenjamin wrote: »
    **** sake. is it that time of the year again? fed up of all these stupid and circular discussions on it. last years didn't go anywhere. the year before that didn't go anywhere... at the end of the day why the f*ck does it matter?

    anyone want to start a pool as to when this thing will get locked?

    I think given the strong feelings people have about their respective identities and the way this whole issue impinges on them, this discussion has been remarkably civil so far.

    Plenty of attacking posts but not posters, which is the sort of hard but fair play we all want to see.


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    #145
    Voipjunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Voipjunkie


    Camelot wrote: »
    Your facts are incorrect - please see Post#8 + Post#21.

    No my facts are 100% correct the money goes to the Royal Britsh Legion to support British soldiers including veterans of the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq.
    It does not make any difference where they live or where they came from whether it is here or in the UK or timbuktu they are what they are British soldiers or ex British Soldiers or dead British soldiers.

    They are NOT Irish soldiers.


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    #146
    Voipjunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Voipjunkie


    It wasn't me! wrote: »
    Afghanistan has a UN mandate behind it.

    Never said it did not that is why my post says illegal invasion of a sovereign country ie Iraq.

    But as you mention it Iam sure it is of huge comfort to the civilians being murdered that their is a UN mandate just as Iam sure it will be of huge comfort when they **** off and leave them in the hands of the taliban again.


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    #147
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    No my facts are 100% correct the money goes to the Royal Britsh Legion to support British soldiers including veterans of the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq.
    It does not make any difference where they live or where they came from whether it is here or in the UK or timbuktu they are what they are British soldiers or ex British Soldiers or dead British soldiers.

    They are NOT Irish soldiers.

    Sorry Voipjunkie, but I will not back down on this issue, & I am 100% certain the all procedes collected by the Irish Poppy Appeal Fund in the Republic of Ireland go towards Irish War veterans only and/or their widows in the Republic of Ireland - if there is a shortfall in annual takings of the Irish Poppy Appeal then Head Office step-in and Top-up the coffers . . . .


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    #148
    Voipjunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Voipjunkie


    Camelot wrote: »
    Sorry Voipjunkie, but I will not back down on this issue, & I am 100% certain the all procedes collected by the Irish Poppy Appeal Fund in the Republic of Ireland go towards Irish War veterans only and/or their widows in the Republic of Ireland - if there is a shortfall in annual takings of the Irish Poppy Appeal then The Royal British legion step-in and Top-up the coffers . . . .


    No your missing the point it goes to British Army war veterans including those who were killing people in Iraq in the illegal invasion and occupation of that country.
    They may be originally from Ireland or outer Mongolia it makes no difference they are BRITISH ARMED FORCES VETERANS. Veterans are not just from wars that happened 90 or 60 years ago.

    The Royal British Legion in the Republic of Ireland orgainises and administers the poppy sales and the funds that come from it to veterans of the BRITISH ARMED FORCES and their families.
    They are not Irish war veterans that suggests an involvement of the Irish state or the Irish Army and that is not the case.


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    #149
    It wasn't me!
    Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Are you suggesting that soldiers in the British Army, from Ireland, are not Irish?


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    #150
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    No your missing the point it goes to British Army war veterans including those who were killing people in Iraq in the illegal invasion and occupation of that country.

    But those British Army War Veterans you speak of are from the Republic of Ireland with Irish Passports serving in Irish Regiments within the British Army > (they are just as Irish as you Voipjunkie).
    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    They may be originally from Ireland or outer Mongolia it makes no difference they are BRITISH ARMED FORCES VETERANS. Veterans are not just from wars that happened 90 or 60 years ago.

    They (or their widows) are/were from Republic of Ireland only . . .
    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    The Royal British Legion in the Republic of Ireland orgainises and administers the poppy sales and the funds that come from it to veterans of the BRITISH ARMED FORCES and their families.

    Correct to an extent, the Poppy funds go only to Irish recipients in the Republic of Ireland.
    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    They are not Irish war veterans that suggests an involvement of the Irish state or the Irish Army and that is not the case.

    The money raised from the sales of Poppies in the Republic of Ireland goes to Irish War veterans or their widows in the Republic of Ireland ONLY!

    The Irish Poppy Appeal Fund pertains only to the Republic of Ireland!

    How many times do I ................ :rolleyes:


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    #151
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055397903

    I find it quite bizarre that these two threads are running in tandem.

    Huzzah!!! for careless British snipers and their hapless civilian victims.


This discussion has been closed.
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