Remembrance Sunday = PoPpY DaY

Voipjunkie

Camelot wrote: »

But those British Army War Veterans you speak of are from the Republic of Ireland with Irish Passports serving in Irish Regiments within the British Army > (they are just as Irish as you Voipjunkie).



They (or their widows) are/were from Republic of Ireland only . . .



Correct to an extent, the Poppy funds go only to Irish recipients in the Republic of Ireland.



The money raised from the sales of Poppies in the Republic of Ireland goes to Irish War veterans or their widows in the Republic of Ireland ONLY!

The Irish Poppy Appeal Fund pertains only to the Republic of Ireland!

How many times do I ................ :rolleyes:

Till it sinks in that it does NOT matter where they came from what passport they hold they are British Armed Forces the people they killed in Iraq don't give a **** how Irish they feel.

Why do you think for a second that it makes any difference where they came from it is no less abhorent to invade a country illegaly because your from Ireland.
Personally I have nothing but contempt for them.

Manic Moran

I trust you're not objecting to the concept of the Irish Poppy Appeal Fund in itself, only the question of whether or not it should be a nationally-sponsored issue, right?

If people wish to support an organisation which helps families of Irishmen who served in the British forces, I trust you acknowledge their right to do so, no?

It is also to be noted that Irishmen in the British Forces are not only dying in Iraq, they're being killed in other, far less controversial areas. Ireland's security has for the last century been reliant on those who decided to serve the Queen, whether you approve of all their current deployments or not.

You need to look at the bigger picture, I think.

NTM

MarchDub

Manic Moran wrote: »

John 15:13, anyone?

NTM

And when did Britain ever earn the title of "friends" to the Irish? During the Famine, the Cromwellian settlement, the penal code.... ??

Voipjunkie

Manic Moran wrote: »

I trust you're not objecting to the concept of the Irish Poppy Appeal Fund in itself, only the question of whether or not it should be a nationally-sponsored issue, right?

If people wish to support an organisation which helps families of Irishmen who served in the British forces, I trust you acknowledge their right to do so, no?

It is also to be noted that Irishmen in the British Forces are not only dying in Iraq, they're being killed in other, far less controversial areas. Ireland's security has for the last century been reliant on those who decided to serve the Queen, whether you approve of all their current deployments or not.

You need to look at the bigger picture, I think.

NTM

People can do whatever they like with their money its a free country I'm giving MY opinion why I do not and would not support it.


I think perhaps you should look at the bigger picture Britains armed forces have been killing people in various colonial adventures for the last couple of centuries.

They have brought instability and mayhem as a policy to everywhere they went.

The only war in which people should be in anyway grateful to them for is the second world war unfortunately you can not pick and choose what you are honouring when you wear a poppy as it honours all of britains war dead.

Manic Moran

By and large soldiers cannot pick and choose which wars to fight in.

You're basically refusing to honour those who you do think fought a noble cause on the grounds that it would also honour those who fought a cause you personally disagree with, regardless of if they were or weren't so keen on the idea themselves at the time. Seems like a very broad brush to me.

NTM

Voipjunkie

Manic Moran wrote: »

By and large soldiers cannot pick and choose which wars to fight in.

You're basically refusing to honour those who you do think fought a noble cause on the grounds that it would also honour those who fought a cause you personally disagree with, regardless of if they were or weren't so keen on the idea themselves at the time. Seems like a very broad brush to me.

NTM

There is no conscription in the UK people join of their own free will knowing that they may be sent to fight in a war they don't agree with that is their choice.

If you really don't agree with it refuse to go that would be the honourable thing to do killing Iraqis because someone told you to is not an excuse.

Honouring Britains war "heroes" includes honouring those "heroes" they sent here you cannot seperate them in rememberance day that honours all those who have served.

Of course it is a broad brush it stretches back hundreds of years and runs right up to the present day.

I can't seperate out the british soldiers who murdered nearly 1000 unarmed men women and children in Amritsar in 1919 because when you wear the poppy you are honouring those men too.

LordSutch

Voipjunkie - As has been said many times before in this Thread, when somebody buys a Poppy on the streets of Dublin or in a Church in the Republic, then the money donated goes towards Irish war veterans or their widows > You just dont seem to understand Voipjunkie, that the funds collected HERE in the Republic STAY in the Republic!

This is the last time I will mention where procedes of Poppies in the Republic of Ireland go to.

getz

your just wasting your time camolot,to many people in the south of ireland have been so brainwashed by passed historys that anything that sounds british is to be hated --but it is always those who have never been outside there own country

A Dub in Glasgo

http://republic-of-ireland.britishlegion.org.uk/index.cfm?asset_id=1423

http://www.cidb.ie/comhairleVCS.nsf/2226286b270c4539802568f800343bfb/eb396b7e9575231e80256dea0048119f?OpenDocument

No thanks for me.

If people want to contribute, that it up to them but what we have here is a zen like tendancy of the pro-poppy people to ensure that everybody follows their beliefs and customs. ArthurF has started a thread like this plenty of times and it would appear to me that he is more concerned with getting others to buy into this than his own belief of remembering the British dead of WW1. Look at the the stigma attached to media figures who do not want to buy and wear a poppy.

It is this political use of the symbol which a lot of people object to.

gurramok

getz wrote: »

your just wasting your time camolot,to many people in the south of ireland have been so brainwashed by passed historys that anything that sounds british is to be hated --but it is always those who have never been outside there own country

Wrong. There is no brainwashing here, more like brainwashing over there if you know what i mean.

I love British culture and their people, i've even relatives over there and have visited there numerous times.
You need to look up a history book and watch present actions to know why Irish people have hostility to the British military establishment (not people or culture).

Mad Finn

Manic Moran wrote: »

I trust you're not objecting to the concept of the Irish Poppy Appeal Fund in itself, only the question of whether or not it should be a nationally-sponsored issue, right?

If people wish to support an organisation which helps families of Irishmen who served in the British forces, I trust you acknowledge their right to do so, no?

Many of us posting here who will not allow a poppy adorn their breasts have said just this, MM. I don't feel I have the right to tell any individual how they should remember the past and/or which interpretation they choose to endorse.

But that is not what the OP is about, nor is it what the letter writers in the Times, referred to in the OP, are about. The OP says "it is a sad reflection on Irish Society" that we don't commemorate the British Army's war dead the way people in Britain do. It asks "why don't we?" instead of "Why can't I?"

The answer is "yes you can, but no we won't".

Manic Moran wrote:

It is also to be noted that Irishmen in the British Forces are not only dying in Iraq, they're being killed in other, far less controversial areas. Ireland's security has for the last century been reliant on those who decided to serve the Queen, whether you approve of all their current deployments or not.

You need to look at the bigger picture, I think.

NTM

That's a crock, MM. The only people who have threatened us with invasion since independence have been the good old UK and to a much lesser extent the USA. Both found, during the war, that it would be a lot more cost effective to tolerate a neutral state which had no intention of throwing in its lot with their, the US & UK's, enemies and were seen to deal harshly with any of their population who did.

Ireland would be a difficult country to capture unless you were starting from the UK. If you were an ally of Britain, that's what you would do but then if you were an ally of Britain, why would you bother?

If you were an enemy of Britain you would have to brave some pretty treacherous sea lanes and the Royal Navy to effect a landing. You might say, "Aha. That's the Royal Navy defending you." To which I would reply, "No, that's the Royal Navy defending Britain."

By remaining neutral in large conflicts we saved a lot of people a lot of time and effort. Not to mention a lot of lives.

OK, so we play one enemy off against another but that is what the Big Powers have been doing for centuries. Not least in WWII when the Americans and British let the Soviets and Germans kick the crap out of each other and then waltzed in to pick up the pieces.

Proud to be a Euroweenie.

LordSutch

This Topic (Poppies) has beens started by several other posters over the last few years > I started this one (after being prompted by a letter in the irish Times) and seeing as my Grandfather (from Dun Laoghaire) died in the Great War, then I cant think of a reason why I should not have an opinion on this topic . . .

MarchDub

getz wrote: »

your just wasting your time camolot,to many people in the south of ireland have been so brainwashed by passed historys that anything that sounds british is to be hated --but it is always those who have never been outside there own country

You are so wrong - you ought to visit the US where the view of Irish history is not at all sympathetic to the British. In fact, much of the more interesting research on the insidious nature of the British presence in Ireland came from US historians working in the late 20th century. It was the historians working out of Ireland who became reluctant to go there.

I would also suggest that you visit France and Germany on the same topic. No quarter is given to the British footprint in Ireland.

Mad Finn

Camelot wrote: »

This Topic (Poppies) has beens started by several other posters over the last few years > I started this one (after being prompted by a letter in the irish Times) and seeing as my Grandfather (from Dun Laoghaire) died in the Great War, then I cant think of a reason why I should not have an opinion on this topic . . .

Who's denying you the right to have an opinion or to express it?

But your OP was all about why more people don't share your views. Some sample quotes. my emphasis

camelot wrote:

a time to pretend past generations didn’t fall on the PoPpY fields of Flanders........

...Now that Irish society generally recognises and commemorates the Irish men and women who gave their lives in the two World Wars and other conflicts, would it not be appropriate for the Roman Catholic Church to do likewise at Masses on Remembrance Sunday next Month? – . . .

“So why don’t Irish people (Protestants aside) not wear the Poppy as a mark of respect on or around Armistice Sunday”? considering the large number of Irish men (RC & CoI) who died in the two World Wars?.......even though so many of our own Grandads & Great Grandads died on the Somme or on the Normandy beaches or elsewhere in Europe!......

I think it’s a sad reflection on Irish society that so few mark the week..

So I wonder are many of us oblivious? or do we not care what our ancestors did?

Maybe you didn't mean this as a sneer against other people who don't share your views but it's hard to avoid that inference from re-reading your OP. Your post is less concerned with your opinion than it is with everybody else's.

Who's oblivious? I've known about my grandfather's three brothers who died in the great war since I was a kid. I can't remember not knowing.

The history of Irishmen in the British Army is inextricably linked to our past as a subject nation. There is nothing unusual in that. Most Imperial armies draw the majority of their cannon fodder from their conquered territories. It's not a particularly British phenomenon and it's not a typically Irish experience.

The disparity between the numbers of Irish soldiers killed in the First and Second World Wars, even though I dispute the accuracy of your figures, tells a tale. There were many more killed in the much shorter first war than the second. Because we were part of the UK in the first and independent, and neutral, in the second.

In the nineteenth century, much of the British Army was recruited in Ireland. The role our forefathers played then was keeping the ****, wogs and abos in their place. Which they did with remarkable effectiveness. And considerable brutality. Are you proud of that?

We have a long and bloody history of conflict with Britain. That is coming to an end and nobody rejoices at that more than I do. But throwing a wet blanket over the true story of the past and pretending that we were always on the same side and your struggle was our struggle is bogus, dishonest and dangerous.

If we're saying that unionist and nationalist could get along fine as long as they had a common enemy then it begs the question, who is going to be our next enemy? The Poles? The Lithuanians? The Filipinos? The Arabs?

By all means be aware of our history but don't pretend we can have a common interpretation.

Voipjunkie

Camelot wrote: »

Voipjunkie - As has been said many times before in this Thread, when somebody buys a Poppy on the streets of Dublin or in a Church in the Republic, then the money donated goes towards Irish war veterans or their widows > You just dont seem to understand Voipjunkie, that the funds collected HERE in the Republic STAY in the Republic!

This is the last time I will mention where procedes of Poppies in the Republic of Ireland go to.

I never said the money went outside of Ireland I said they are used to support British Armed Forces Veterans and that includes British Armed Forces veterans from the current illegal invasion of Iraq. These people are not Irish War Veterans they are BRITISH ARMED FORCES VETERANS they may have Irish passports they may have UK passport they may have Mongolian Passports it does not change what they are.
Calling these people Irish War Veterans is misleading to say the least this state has been independent for the last 86 years and has had its own official Armed forces since then the only people entitled to use the term Irish War veterans are those people who fought for Irelands Independence and those people who have served the Irish state in its armed forces in various UN missions.

Voipjunkie

getz wrote: »

your just wasting your time camolot,to many people in the south of ireland have been so brainwashed by passed historys that anything that sounds british is to be hated --but it is always those who have never been outside there own country

Excuse me I have not be brainwashed by anybody and you have no idea where I have been or what I have seen.
Such a condescending atitude that presumes anyone who does not share your perspective can not think for themselves or has limited knowledge says more about you and your beliefs than it does about mine.

LordSutch

Voipjunkie wrote: »

I never said the money went outside of Ireland I said they are used to support British Armed Forces Veterans and that includes British Armed Forces veterans from the current illegal invasion of Iraq. These people are not Irish War Veterans they are BRITISH ARMED FORCES VETERANS they may have Irish passports they may have UK passport they may have Mongolian Passports it does not change what they are.
Calling these people Irish War Veterans is misleading to say the least this state has been independent for the last 86 years and has had its own official Armed forces since then the only people entitled to use the term Irish War veterans are those people who fought for Irelands Independence and those people who have served the Irish state in its armed forces in various UN missions.

What can I say > you even deny that they (& their widows) exist.

LordSutch

Mad Finn wrote: »

Maybe you didn't mean this as a sneer against other people who don't share your views but it's hard to avoid that inference from re-reading your OP. Your post is less concerned with your opinion than it is with everybody else's.

You do realise that part of what you have just attributed to me in Post#165 is actually from the letter in the Irish Times! > and it was those words in the 'Irish Times' which prompted me into starting this Thread . . . .

And anyway whats wrong with the Irish Times Letter writer asking the question in the firstplace?

Mad Finn wrote: »

The history of Irishmen in the British Army is inextricably linked to our past as a subject nation. There is nothing unusual in that. Most Imperial armies draw the majority of their cannon fodder from their conquered territories. It's not a particularly British phenomenon and it's not a typically Irish experience.

So you are saying that those Fifty thousand in Irish Regiments knew they were going to be cannon fodder but joined-up anyway? or what are you saying? that there were far fewer casualties among the English, Welsh, & Scots? were they too not cannon fodder?

Mad Finn wrote: »

The disparity between the numbers of Irish soldiers killed in the First and Second World Wars, even though I dispute the accuracy of your figures, tells a tale. There were many more killed in the much shorter first war than the second. Because we were part of the UK in the first and independent, and neutral, in the second.

Maybe fewer Irish men joined-up for the second World War? hence there not being such a large loss of Irish life? maybe the overall casualty numbers were down in WWII ? (I dont know).

Mad Finn wrote: »

In the nineteenth century, much of the British Army was recruited in Ireland. The role our forefathers played then was keeping the ****, wogs and abos in their place. Which they did with remarkable effectiveness. And considerable brutality. Are you proud of that?

Lost for words :cool:

Mad Finn wrote: »

If we're saying that unionist and nationalist could get along fine as long as they had a common enemy then it begs the question, who is going to be our next enemy? The Poles? The Lithuanians? The Filipinos? The Arabs?

What are you on about now? whats this got to do with Poppy day?

Voipjunkie

Camelot wrote: »

What can I say > you even deny that they (& their widows) exist.

What you can say is call them what they are and don't try and label them as something else
They are British Armed Forces Veterans some of them are Irish some of them are British some of them are other Nationalities what they have in common is that they served in the British Armed Forces and they live in Ireland.

They are not Irish war veterans as you are trying to label them.

So if you want to be correct say

The Money goes to support British Armed Forces Veterans and there families who live in the Republic of Ireland.
That includes people who served in the illegal invasion of Iraq

LordSutch

They certainly are/were IRISH > and thats the whole point of the Irish Poppy Appeal Fund.

There was even a documentary on RTE TV recently charting the lives of men from the Republic of Ireland (Cork, kerry, Wicklow, Dublin, etc) Irish men from all over the South who join the British Army every year.

And when they get old, the funds from the sale of Poppies in the Republic will go towards helping 'them' in their twilight years - which I think is great.

I just dont see anything wrong with that.

Manic Moran

Voipjunkie wrote: »

There is no conscription in the UK people join of their own free will knowing that they may be sent to fight in a war they don't agree with that is their choice.

Is that not a further evidence of sacrifice? They raise their hand to serve their country under the rules of that country. In the case of the UK, to follow the orders of Her Majesty's Government which has been elected by the vote of the people. In other words, subservienting themselves to the national will for the greater good.

If you really don't agree with it refuse to go that would be the honourable thing to do killing Iraqis because someone told you to is not an excuse.

Not an option. You can't have soldiers picking and choosing what wars to fight. They must trust that their government has a vague idea what they're doing. If the government is wrong, it is to the body of the people to convince their elected representatives of this, not to the military to mutiny. Not only does this make sense, it also has been upheld in courts.

Honouring Britains war "heroes" includes honouring those "heroes" they sent here you cannot seperate them in rememberance day that honours all those who have served.

I agree. But I still think that it is an affront to refuse to acknowledge the good because there was bad in there as well. You will, I think, find it very hard to find any organisation, probably down to Mother Teresa's nunnery, which hasn't had some questionable element in it.

I can't seperate out the british soldiers who murdered nearly 1000 unarmed men women and children in Amritsar in 1919 because when you wear the poppy you are honouring those men too.

I would think that really one only honours those who one wants to honour.

But that is not what the OP is about, nor is it what the letter writers in the Times, referred to in the OP, are about. The OP says "it is a sad reflection on Irish Society" that we don't commemorate the British Army's war dead the way people in Britain do. It asks "why don't we?" instead of "Why can't I?"

I'm not arguing that particular point. I'm just taking some issue with some of the ancilliary logic proposed.

That's a crock, MM. The only people who have threatened us with invasion since independence have been the good old UK and to a much lesser extent the USA. Both found, during the war, that it would be a lot more cost effective to tolerate a neutral state which had no intention of throwing in its lot with their, the US & UK's, enemies and were seen to deal harshly with any of their population who did.

I am going to greatly disagree with you on this, for two issues.
Firstly, the military threat. For example, were we to assume that the Germans were indeed a viable threat to Ireland in WWII (Operation Green), or that the Warsaw Pact was indeed a viable threat to NATO, then absolutely we were shielded by the UK. In the German case, after a defeat of the UK, and in the WarPac case, Ireland would have been a priority target.
Secondly, more in the 'way of life'. What would Ireland's economic situation have been had Germany been undefeated by the UK or the Western Powers overrun by WarPac forces, even if the nation itself remained un-invaded?

Ireland would be a difficult country to capture unless you were starting from the UK. If you were an ally of Britain, that's what you would do but then if you were an ally of Britain, why would you bother

Ireland would be a very easy country to capture given the utter lack of defenses the nation has (and more specifically, had in the Cold War days). Or more importantly, just parts of it. Given its strategic location on the edge of the Atlantic, it would be a perfect staging point for an attempt to close the North Atlantic to Reforger convoys.

Aha. That's the Royal Navy defending you." To which I would reply, "No, that's the Royal Navy defending Britain."

Although correct, there is no denying that Ireland benefits from it. Either they serve Ireland's purpose, or they don't, regardless of their own intent. If Ireland benefits from the actions of another, then why not show some appreciation for it?

NTM

Voipjunkie

Camelot wrote: »

They certainly are/were IRISH > and thats the whole point of the Irish Poppy Appeal Fund.

There was even a documentary on RTE TV recently charting the lives of men from the Republic of Ireland (Cork, kerry, Wicklow, Dublin, etc) Irish men from all over the South who join the British Army every year.

And when they get old, the funds from the sale of Poppies in the Republic will go towards helping 'them' in their twilight years - which I think is great.

I just dont see anything wrong with that.

I think you are deliberately missing the point it doesn't make any difference what Nationality they hold they are British Armed Forces Veterans.

The fact that they are Irish in no way mitigates what they have done in Iraq and elsewhere.

So I repeat the money goes to support British Armed Forces Veterans and their families and that includes people who were involved in the illegal invasion of Iraq. That is 100% the case no matter how you try to dress it up about twilight years or mislabel them.

Now tell exactly what part of that statement you disagree with

Are they British Armed Forces Veterans?
Does the money support them and their families?
Does it include anyone (living in Ireland) who served in the British Armed Forces including in the illegal invasion of Iraq?

Fratton Fred

Voipjunkie wrote: »

There is no conscription in the UK people join of their own free will knowing that they may be sent to fight in a war they don't agree with that is their choice.

not now, no, but during both world wars there was in the majority of it.

That is why I wear a poppy, to remember them.

As I said earlier, if you don't want to wear one fine, but please respect my decision to do so.

LordSutch

Voipjunkie wrote: »

I think you are deliberately missing the point it doesn't make any difference what Nationality they hold they are British Armed Forces Veterans.

The sale of Poppies in Ireland goes to support Irish war veterans in the Republic of Ireland ONLY.

Voipjunkie wrote: »

So I repeat the money goes to support British Armed Forces Veterans and their families and that includes people who were involved in the illegal invasion of Iraq. That is 100% the case no matter how you try to dress it up about twilight years or mislabel them.

They are/were 100% Irish with Irish accents from the Republic of Ireland.

Voipjunkie wrote: »

Now tell exactly what part of that statement you disagree with.

All of it :mad:

Voipjunkie wrote: »

Are they British Armed Forces Veterans?
Does the money support them and their families?
Does it include anyone (living in Ireland) who served in the British Armed Forces including in the illegal invasion of Iraq?

If you buy a Poppy in the Republic of Ireland then all procedes go towards those ex-servicemen
(or their widows) in the Republic of Ireland - excluding all other ex-servicemen.

I am beginning to feel like I am in Groundhog Day, maybe the green will get the message home

Voipjunkie

Fratton Fred wrote: »

not now, no, but during both world wars there was in the majority of it.

That is why I wear a poppy, to remember them.

As I said earlier, if you don't want to wear one fine, but please respect my decision to do so.

But again the poppy does not just honour those from both world wars it is for all wars including those waged against Ireland

And there was never conscription in Ireland in WW1 and obviously not in WW2


Of i respect your decsion to and I expect my decision not to wear it to be respected as well without having these posts year after year questioning why the majority of Irish people don't want to wear it.

A Dub in Glasgo

Camelot wrote: »

The sale of Poppies in Ireland goes to support Irish war veterans in the Republic of Ireland ONLY.



They are/were 100% Irish with Irish accents from the Republic of Ireland.



All of it :mad:



If you buy a Poppy in the Republic of Ireland then all procedes go towards those ex-servicemen
(or their widows) in the Republic of Ireland - excluding all other ex-servicemen.

I am beginning to feel like I am in Groundhog Day, maybe the green will get the message home

Unreal

Buying a poppy in the RoI supports Irish citizens/residents (or ex) in the British Armed Forces. They are not Irish Armed Forces or the Irish Army, they are Irish people in the British Armed Forces!

Do you call Irish people in the Foreign Legion or the US Army 'Irish soldiers' or 'Irish war veterans'? If not, why not?

Voipjunkie

Camelot wrote: »

The sale of Poppies in Ireland goes to support Irish war veterans in the Republic of Ireland ONLY.



They are/were 100% Irish with Irish accents from the Republic of Ireland.



All of it :mad:



If you buy a Poppy in the Republic of Ireland then all procedes go towards those ex-servicemen
(or their widows) in the Republic of Ireland - excluding all other ex-servicemen.

I am beginning to feel like I am in Groundhog Day, maybe the green will get the message home

Ok it is geting like groundhog day what you are posting is WRONG

A It is not confined to war veterans it is to all people who served at least 7 days in the British Armed Forces whether there was a war at the time or not

B it is not confined to Irish Nationals it is open to all nationals in the Irish republic as long as they meet the previous condition


Hence they are not all Irish and they are not all war veterans

So again

Are they British Armed Forces Veterans?
Does the money support them and their families?
Does it include anyone (living in Ireland) who served in the British Armed Forces including in the illegal invasion of Iraq?

Voipjunkie

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Unreal

Buying a poppy in the RoI supports Irish citizens/residents (or ex) in the British Armed Forces. They are not Irish Armed Forces or the Irish Army, they are Irish people in the British Armed Forces!

Do you call Irish people in the Foreign Legion or the US Army 'Irish soldiers' or 'Irish war veterans'? If not, why not?

Thank you

That is exactly what I have pointed out to this guy on numerous occassions

They were not fighting for or on behalf of the Irish people or State they should not be referred to as Irish War Veterans only those who fought for Irish freedom and were recognised by this state and those in the Irish Defence Forces who served in Missions for the UN on behalf of the Irish People have a right to be referred to as Irish War Veterans

The correct term for them is British Armed Forces Veterans but for some reason he doesn't like this term despite the fact that is what the Royal British Legion calls them

Manic Moran

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Do you call Irish people in the Foreign Legion or the US Army 'Irish soldiers' or 'Irish war veterans'? If not, why not?

Well, I call myself an Irish soldier, albeit not one representing the government of Ireland. Just a soldier who happens to be Irish. This becomes quite evident as soon as I open my mouth. The Wild Geese are a long-standing tradition.

However, I must agree that Camelot is missing the point. The main objection that people like Voipjunkie has is not that they believe that the people being aided are not Irish, or even that they didn't benefit Ireland, just that they were not representing Ireland at the time.

NTM

A Dub in Glasgo

Manic Moran wrote: »

Well, I call myself an Irish soldier, albeit not one representing the government of Ireland. Just a soldier who happens to be Irish. This becomes quite evident as soon as I open my mouth. The Wild Geese are a long-standing tradition.

Correct but your actions are representing the US Army therefore you are, for all intents and purposes, a US soldier.