Match Thread: Chelsea v Liverpool

spockety

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I think all Liverpool fans on this forum should agree to put people like ntlbell on ignore. I can only see the stuff that others have quoted but it is blantantly obvious he is doing nothing but trying to bait repsonses.

It's just an expression of his fear, it's perfectly natural.

(He will come back now with something like, "haha, afraid of Liverpool? haha... hhahahah..", another sure sign)



First they ignore you (though if the Liverpool general thread is anything to go by they've not been doing a good job of that)
Then they laugh at you (this is where we are at now)
Then they fight you (with a bit of luck Feb/March)
Then ......................

Sherifu

Trolls need love too.

vincenzo1975

shane86 wrote: »

And what, 7 in the whole of last year? An improvement certainly but to say Torres is ever so slightly overrated seems to be a capital crime.

Torres started 14 games last year, with 7 goals, thats 1 in two. Not bad in my book, considering his assists and general play putting defences on the backfoot.

Dont think Liverpool have a choice this season anyway, keane is pretty poor for them so far.

Handsome Bob

I just read Paul Merson's preview of the game on Sky Sports. God I love it when that arrogant wanker is shown up to be talking ****e. A little snippet;

A lot of people are asking whether Liverpool struggle without Fernando Torres, but Chelsea haven't got Didier Drogba and nobody is mentioning that. For me, that shows why Liverpool won't get anywhere near Chelsea. The strength in depth Chelsea have is so much stronger and I think that will be the difference over the 38 games.

If Liverpool give Chelsea a head-start like they did against Wigan and Man City, then they haven't got a hope. They were able to come back against those two teams, but if Chelsea take the lead then it's goodnight. Premier League titles are not won by teams winning 3-2 every week so I think this will prove to be a very difficult game for Liverpool

Ha ha ha ha ha ha.........

spockety

In fairness, there's not much that Paul Merson said there that can yet be proven wrong.

He didn't really go out and say "Liverpool will be thrashed by Chelsea tomorrow at Stamford Bridge".. more that Liverpool would struggle to keep pace with Chelsea over 38 games. He could yet be proven right.

However, in the meantime, 1-0!! BWWWWWWAAHAHAHAHAHA.

taidghbaby

shane86 wrote: »

Do I dare throw the cat amongst the piegons and suggest Torres doesnt start every away game given his relatively average away forum?


*awaits raping*

shane86 wrote: »

And what, 7 in the whole of last year? An improvement certainly but to say Torres is ever so slightly overrated seems to be a capital crime.

what are you trying to say??

torres is sh1t away from home, or he's overrated???

Handsome Bob

spockety wrote: »

In fairness, there's not much that Paul Merson said there that can yet be proven wrong.

He didn't really go out and say "Liverpool will be thrashed by Chelsea tomorrow at Stamford Bridge".. more that Liverpool would struggle to keep pace with Chelsea over 38 games. He could yet be proven right.

However, in the meantime, 1-0!! BWWWWWWAAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oh I'm aware and yesterday the only post that I made in this thread was to say that we have to keep on going because a slip up at home against Portsmouth would somewhat taint the good work done at Stamford Bridge.

A lot of people are asking whether Liverpool struggle without Fernando Torres, but Chelsea haven't got Didier Drogba and nobody is mentioning that. For me, that shows why Liverpool won't get anywhere near Chelsea.The strength in depth Chelsea have is so much stronger and I think that will be the difference over the 38 games.

It's just that the bolded part was entirely unnecessary and was a dig more than a well articulated point. But maybe that's expecting too much of Merson.:pac:

DeadSkin

Last season Torres scored 24 goals in 33 games in the Prem.
So far Torres has 5 goals in 6 Prem games.

Yeah, he could do better :pac:

ROCKMAN

First off , well done to Liverpool yesterday , God I was proved sooooooo wrong (egg on face time )
Just could not see that result happen, given the history ,the teams form coming into the game etc ,but again well done ,
Yes yesterday's result must be taking serious , will have made alot of people sit up and take notice. Now having said that I still cannot see pass Utd or Chelsea for the title but I do think Liverpool will be around and involved in the title race for a lot longer this season than alot of people are thinking.

Now for my Utd tilted glasses The only positive thing I can take out of a very bad weekend for us , Is , I am much happier been 8 points (game in hand ) behind Liverpool than I would have been if we where 8 points behind Chelsea. A 8 point gap in Oct will not get you a medal but if Chelsea had this gap I would have been really Worried. No disrespected to Liverpool but , with them having the gap it does not have me as worried .

jesus_thats_gre

http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8742_4407506,00.html


Liverpool

Liverpool's display was a masterclass in match-management, a lesson in how suffocate opponents, in exploiting and revealing weaknesses, in the power of discipline, in refusing to yield the initiative.

Entertainment in football can take many different forms. Sunday's game would have been subdued viewing for those who have bought into the modern-day, TV-dictated definition that an entertaining game of football is a game of numerous goalmouth action and endless end-to-end breaks. This was a throwback, a reminder for those who can appreciate the skill of controlling as a game as an artform that football works best as a contest. It's not just about how you play; how you make the opposition play matters just as much. Liverpool's performance was a demonstration in how to make good on a piece of slight fortune and win. As such, it was close to perfection.

That Xabi Alonso's 10th-minute shot required a deflection to make its transformation from hopeful punt to match-winning strike is undeniable. Yet, with eighty minutes still on the clock, Chelsea had ample time in which to make their response. Their stage was set; either they scored or they lost. Simple, really. And yet despite the clarity of that knowledge, they managed to create a grand total of one chance. One.

A lucky win? Forget it. A boring win? Forget about football if you couldn't appreciate its quality.

Rafa Benitez

The key to Liverpool's victory was their organisation, discipline and the absolute belief that they could repel whatever Chelsea would throw at them. Tactically, they were yard-perfect, from Steven Gerrard's liberation behind Robbie Keane, to the use of Albert Riera and Dirk Kuyt to nullifying Chelsea's hitherto rampaging full-backs. Now we know why the Dutchman was omitted in midweek despite three goals in his previous two matches - Benitez was saving him for the task of making Ashley Cole the brattish, prattish, self-absorbed, spoilt, obnoxious garden-gnome lookalike he actually is.

No doubt, the phrase 'tactical masterclass' will be bandied about in praise of Benitez. More accurately, this was a triumph for the 4-2-3-1 formation that has become Liverpool's starting point and been an integral factor behind their best-ever start to a Premiership season. It works because it plays to Liverpool's strengths and disguises their faults, and it worked on Sunday because one of its by-products is the easy deployment of two of the three into a second bank of four (which is the long-winded way of saying that a 4-2-3-1 can be seamlessly morphed into a 4-4-1-1 as and when the circumstance demands).

For Benitez, the lay-out could not have been better. Not only were Liverpool set up exactly as he wanted, but so too were Chelsea.

"Chelsea have full backs going forward all of the time, but we demonstrated you can go forward and create something," he explained afterwards. "They will have problems behind their defenders because they go forward all the time."

With Gerrard thus able to find and exploit space on either flank, John Obi Mikel was made redundant and irrelevant. Instructed since the start of the season to hold station in front of his two central defenders, he found himself marking fresh air.

He was not the only Chelsea player to endure a chastening experience, though. Put on the spot, they could not even come up with any questions let alone answers to the quandary Liverpool presented. To state they lacked imagination would be a grave understatement.

In Scolari's mitigation, the identity of Chelsea's substitutes - Carlo Cudicini, Branislav Ivanovic, Paulo Ferreira, Alex, Franco Di Santo, Scott Sinclair and Juliano Belletti - provided limited scope for maneuver or alteration. Yet the pathetic, gutless display of Florent Malouda damned Scolari as the fair price he deserved to pay for his arrogant claim in the summer that he could fix the Frenchman in a way that Avram Grant and Jose Mourinho could not. From that boast followed the failure to buy the creative forward that his team is now in dire need of - even at £35m, it was mistake to judge Robinho as overpriced because of his value as the final piece in the Chelsea jigsaw - and the regular sight of Malouda in a Chelsea shirt no matter how badly he performs.

PHB

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

You couldn't have asked for a better performance at Stamford Bridge from Liverpool. If anyone was to beat them, it would never have been a 3-0 pounding or swash-buckling football. It was always going to be a tight game, decided by a single goal or mistake.

We didn't miss Torres today. Keane led the line well without being 100%, Riera played a blinder, Babel did very well when he came on, and Alonso and Kuyt both had decent chances. In the second half, we played a lot of quality, quick, one-touch passes around the midfield and attack.

Apart from the closing stages of both halves, we didn't play with 10 men behind the ball. We took the game to Chelsea and pressed them high up the pitch.

While there's no doubt thats true, at the same time, you never really created a great chance. Aside from the goal, the best chance by far was Alonso's free kick off the post.
Liverpool executed their game plan perfectly after the bit of luck, and there's no doubt that in top games they can raise their game, sure they beat United without Torres either and it wasn't due to luck, but I'm just talking in terms of basic attacking ability going forward, creating chances, etc.
I just don't think they create enough, and last night was a testiment to that belief. Chelsea didn't create much either, but Liverpool are masters are defending. Chelsea were pushing forward again and again, and Liverpool were never constructively able to create any good chances.

I think Merson has hit the nail on the head

Premier League titles are not won by teams winning 3-2 every week

They are won by teams that win 3/4 nil lots of games. Until Liverpool get their attacking system fluid enough to do that against the Stokes and Wigans of the world, they won't win it. You just can't rely on the moments of magic that Gerrard Torres and (shocked i'm writing this) Kuyt are providing or moments of luck then defending for 90 minutes.

Liverpool have been the comeback kings so far this year. But until they start putting teams away with ease, there's no way that they can keep coming back in every single game. If they do, it would be the most amazing achievement ever in football.
Until Liverpool start doing that, I won't be worried about them. That said, without doing that they are on top, so they've still got time to get their act together.

Boggles

Anyone else notice Terrys attempt yesterday to damage Reinas face, he really is getting on my tits lately, and with his apparent immunity from punishment, he quickly is becoming one of my most hated players.

shane86

PHB wrote: »

Liverpool have been the comeback kings so far this year. .... there's no way that they can keep coming back in every single game. If they do, it would be the most amazing achievement ever in football.

A bit like the 05 CL final stretched out over 38 games so :pac:

citytillidie

PHB wrote: »

While there's no doubt thats true, at the same time, you never really created a great chance. Aside from the goal, the best chance by far was Alonso's free kick off the post.
Liverpool executed their game plan perfectly after the bit of luck, and there's no doubt that in top games they can raise their game, sure they beat United without Torres either and it wasn't due to luck, but I'm just talking in terms of basic attacking ability going forward, creating chances, etc.
I just don't think they create enough, and last night was a testiment to that belief. Chelsea didn't create much either, but Liverpool are masters are defending. Chelsea were pushing forward again and again, and Liverpool were never constructively able to create any good chances.

I think Merson has hit the nail on the head


They are won by teams that win 3/4 nil lots of games. Until Liverpool get their attacking system fluid enough to do that against the Stokes and Wigans of the world, they won't win it. You just can't rely on the moments of magic that Gerrard Torres and (shocked i'm writing this) Kuyt are providing or moments of luck then defending for 90 minutes.

Liverpool have been the comeback kings so far this year. But until they start putting teams away with ease, there's no way that they can keep coming back in every single game. If they do, it would be the most amazing achievement ever in football.
Until Liverpool start doing that, I won't be worried about them. That said, without doing that they are on top, so they've still got time to get their act together.

So over the past few seasons when United have come to Anfield sat back and hit on the counter and got there goal that was a great game plan that work to perfection, but when Liverpool do it to Chelsea its Lucky.

Did not create enough ok it was a set peice but they hit the post only keeper to make a save the whole game was Chec from Gerrads shot. Riera hit the side netting, tell me what did Reina have to do the whole game???.

Then there was the passing move that nearly set Babel free in the box.

Liverpool looked like the more likly to score a 2nd yesterday than Chelsea were to score an equaliser apart from the last 15 mins of the 1st half they were not sitting back and defending like your saying they did.

spockety

PHB wrote: »

While there's no doubt thats true, at the same time, you never really created a great chance. Aside from the goal, the best chance by far was Alonso's free kick off the post.

:eek:

There was also Gerrard's left foot volley that only Cech's fingertips saved, Riera had a good one in from the left that he smashed wide, Babel also sent a blistering right footer just wide. Liverpool created plenty of chances for an away side facing the best team in the league who haven't lost a tie there in 86 matches, thanks very much.

Liverpool executed their game plan perfectly after the bit of luck, and there's no doubt that in top games they can raise their game, sure they beat United without Torres either and it wasn't due to luck, but I'm just talking in terms of basic attacking ability going forward, creating chances, etc.

Actually very recent history has shown that it's IN the top league games that Liverpool can't raise their game. They got 4 points last year off United, Chelsea and Arsenal. So where are you getting this from? There was some beautiful football yesterday attacking from Liverpool, dare I say some of the passing interchanges between Alonso, Gerrard, Riera, Masch and Kuyt were a lot more memorable than anything I can recall from the home side.

I just don't think they create enough, and last night was a testiment to that belief. Chelsea didn't create much either, but Liverpool are masters are defending. Chelsea were pushing forward again and again, and Liverpool were never constructively able to create any good chances.

Liverpool were the AWAY side. Benitez's tactic was the _control_ the game (key word: control). Liverpool controlled the game, and Chelsea got barely a sniff. They resorted to Boswinga whipping balls into the box every 3 minutes to be knocked away by Agger or Carra. Game, set, match.

I think Merson has hit the nail on the head

Merson nail head hitting is only relevant if it applies at the end of the season. We are only 9 games in.

They are won by teams that win 3/4 nil lots of games. Until Liverpool get their attacking system fluid enough to do that against the Stokes and Wigans of the world, they won't win it. You just can't rely on the moments of magic that Gerrard Torres and (shocked i'm writing this) Kuyt are providing or moments of luck then defending for 90 minutes.

Just a reminder, Liverpool beat Wigan, and neither Gerrard nor Torres made the scoresheet.
Last season Liverpool scored from all over the park. I have not seen Liverpool do a backs to the wall defend for 90 minutes at all this season, what matches have you been watching? I mean, it was people like you who were preaching over the last few seasons that the only way Liverpool will stand a chance of getting the title is if Benitez throws the shackles off and realises we will need to concede a few goals to score more!

Liverpool have been the comeback kings so far this year. But until they start putting teams away with ease, there's no way that they can keep coming back in every single game. If they do, it would be the most amazing achievement ever in football.
Until Liverpool start doing that, I won't be worried about them. That said, without doing that they are on top, so they've still got time to get their act together.

Nobody is under any illusions. Liverpool fans do not expect that we should be looking at having to come back from being down in every match. I have not seen any Liverpool fan anywhere suggest that you can win a league title by going down in every match. Where are you getting this from? Besides which, in the matches where fortunes needed to be reversed over previous seasons, Liverpool have put away United and Chelsea. In the non top-4 fixtures, Liverpool have gained 5 more points than in corresponding fixtures against the same teams at the same venues last season.

People like you will carry on saying until May that Liverpool are not your main threat. And that's fine. Recent history shows that it is United and Chelsea who deservedly expect to be up there in May. Liverpool fans can hope that your talk will make you look like a fool come May. Though even then I suspect there will be something else to have a dig about. Lucky lucky Liverpool, perhaps?

whatawaster

I'm trying really hard not to get carried away. But 23 points after nine games is beyond any liverpool fans wildest expectations.

I also think we've had a very tough start this year, especially on the road.
Away games at Villa, Everton, Man City and Chelsea (and Spurs to come on Saturday) represent 5 of what i would call our 7 toughest away matches of the season, with United and Arsenal to come. I think we've defintely had the toughest start and come through it, and have a run of winnable games now until December. These are the games we've been struggling with over the years so hopefully things will be different this year

Mr Alan

wat a fantastic post Spockety.

spockety

Cheers. Maybe I am wrong, I don't know, and I am open to being criticized for what I say, but I like to think I at least try to back up what I'm saying with some level of fact.

PHB is a good poster, he can say a lot of sensible things. But I have to say that sometimes he drives me as nuts as people who are pure baiters, because he appears so reasoned in what he's saying, even if it's completely wrong. There is a difference between being reasoned and being reasonable, and I think a lot of what he said above is not very reasonable.

There was little actual 'luck' involved in Alonso's goal. It was goal bound anyway, and nobody can say for certain if Cech would have saved it. Getting 'lucky' goals is when a defender turns a goal into his own net that wasn't even goalbound (a cross etc.), or when a goalie catches a ball only to fumble it into his own net etc. Alonso's goal will be credited to Alonso, not Boswinga.

If I was told I'd win a million euro by guessing the most likely of two outcomes:

1) Liverpool to be challenging at the end of the season
2) Man Utd and Chelsea to be the only challengers at the end of the season

I would take number 2 right now. But that does not mean that as things stand right now, Liverpool are not title contenders. We are. It is 9 matches in, granted, but all we have to go on this season so far is those 9 matches! I think Liverpool deserve more respect for what they have already done this season, especially from supporters of teams we have despatched. The end of the season is the time to judge whether Liverpool deserve respect for the entire campaign, but right now nobody is giving us a prayer. They are entitled to their opinion, but we should not be afraid to take them up on it.

eZe^

Lads, this is actually a serious question. Is Didier Drogba one of the most overrated players in the world? My reasoning is, over the past 4 seasons, he is ALWAYS mentioned among the best strikers, among the likes of Eto'o, Nistelrooy, Shevchenko, Henry, etc. To my mind, he has only had one season where he has scored over 20 goals (and yes, that season he truely was one of the best strikers in the world).

Putting aside his attributes, as he is an exceptionally talented player. His goal scoring record doesn't really flatter, less than 1 goal every 2 games for club. Compare that to Shevchenko and A.C, who averaged more than 1 in 2. Or Etoo, who has scored 87 goals in 117 league games.

Now I do admit that he is a very complete player, good at holding the ball up, very strong, good in the air, talented with both feet. But I really don't see how he is rated so much higher than the likes of David Villa and even Diego Milito.

I would love him in my team, as he has alot to offer, but for some reason I don't understand how despite only having one great season, people seem to look at the man as if he has been consistenly a goal scoring machine. Is it Sky hyping him up or something?

mike65

eZe^ a misplaced post?

Regarding PHB he is sowing the seeds so that if/when Liverpool come up short he can pull this thread out of the ether and show how he was so right, thing is no-one is actualy talking of Liverpool winning the league.

Mike

eZe^

Hahah, whoops!

Boggles

It is extremely hard to predict what is going to happen in the league in a months time let alone in May.

Chelsea are actually 5 points better off then they were with this amount of games played last season.

United are 2 points worse off.

Arsenal had a similar start last season to Liverpool this season, winning 8 and drawing 1. Arsenal actually sustained their title challenge until mid February (26 matches in) being 5 points ahead of United, and 8 ahead of chelsea. It's then that the Arse fell apart, getting 4 points from a possible 15.

Can Liverpool be taken as serious title contenders this year? Well maybe we can only go on what we have seen so far, they do deserve to be top thou, they have had a large slice of luck so far, but you need luck to win the toughest league in the world.

United and Chelsea are like unrelenting wolves thou, they will keep hunting for that top spot until the last day, has the balance of power shifted in the league? Personally I don't think so, but what has happened is Liverpool have fired a warning shot across the bows of the elite of the league and IMO have to be taken seriously for the moment anyways.

eZe^

I think the next 2 months are the most important for Liverpool, those 8 or so games are the ones that will decide whether they are going to be strong contenders or not. Liverpool recently have always ended the season excellently, their problem has been the fact that they are rendered out of the chase by November/ December. Now is their chance to break that duck and potentially win their first premier league.

growler

though obviously dissappointed with both the result and how we played , thought chelsea played worse than at any other time this season, Liverpool are certainly becoming a royal pain in the ass for us and the bad feeling between the 2 clubs seems to grow with everyencounter, both with fans and the players.

It was the tight game everyone thought it would be, for me the one thing that stood out was the gulf in both class and attitude between Drogs and Anelka.

I was really suprised to see how much possession liverpool had in midfield and its the first time i've seen the clues struggle with possession this year.

Anyway, with so many 1st team players injured and having to rely on Malouda and Anelka, it was only a matter of time before we lost a game!

Still think ww'll win the league though.

citytillidie

Just like Man Utd fans you have come out with usual crap ahh we played crap thats the only reason Liverpool win.

Are you not going to give Liverpool credit for playing a tactical game and stopping Chelsea's full backs from getting space in behind their own defence? When that happened Chelsea were reduced to huffing the ball into the box and with Anelka that is not going to work. You had one half chance the whole game which Cole fluffed.

CHD

citytillidie wrote: »

Just like Man Utd fans you have come out with usual crap ahh we played crap thats the only reason Liverpool win.

Are you not going to give Liverpool credit for playing a tactical game and stopping Chelsea's full backs from getting space in behind their own defence? When that happened Chelsea were reduced to huffing the ball into the box and with Anelka that is not going to work. You had one half chance the whole game which Cole fluffed.

Chelsea did play crap and that is why Liverpool won!

Liverpool did there job though and deserved it.

citytillidie

Chelsea played crap because Liverpool did not give them time on the ball.

kryogen

mada999 wrote: »

hahaha Torres overrated ? That's a fact!

.

fixed it for you

kryogen

Boggles wrote: »

It is extremely hard to predict what is going to happen in the league in a months time let alone in May.

Chelsea are actually 5 points better off then they were with this amount of games played last season.

United are 2 points worse off.

Arsenal had a similar start last season to Liverpool this season, winning 8 and drawing 1. Arsenal actually sustained their title challenge until mid February (26 matches in) being 5 points ahead of United, and 8 ahead of chelsea. It's then that the Arse fell apart, getting 4 points from a possible 15.

Can Liverpool be taken as serious title contenders this year? Well maybe we can only go on what we have seen so far, they do deserve to be top thou, they have had a large slice of luck so far, but you need luck to win the toughest league in the world.

United and Chelsea are like unrelenting wolves thou, they will keep hunting for that top spot until the last day, has the balance of power shifted in the league? Personally I don't think so, but what has happened is Liverpool have fired a warning shot across the bows of the elite of the league and IMO have to be taken seriously for the moment anyways.

that is actually a very good post......im scared

ibh

kryogen wrote: »

that is actually a very good post......im scared

Almost too good.......

What are the chances that Mr Alan has kidnapped him and is holding him at gunpoint making him post nice things about L'pool.:pac:

Jazzy

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Now for my Utd tilted glasses The only positive thing I can take out of a very bad weekend for us , Is , I am much happier been 8 points (game in hand ) behind Liverpool than I would have been if we where 8 points behind Chelsea. A 8 point gap in Oct will not get you a medal but if Chelsea had this gap I would have been really Worried. No disrespected to Liverpool but , with them having the gap it does not have me as worried .

i think thats a very fair statement. liverpool havent proven they can win the title yet whereas chelsea have over the past 4/5 years. + i still think that chelsea have probably the best overall squad in the world.

hopefully come march we'll be proving folks wrong ^^

spockety

Good post.

Boggles wrote: »

It is extremely hard to predict what is going to happen in the league in a months time let alone in May.

Sometimes it's even hard to predict a single match, never mind a months worth

Chelsea are actually 5 points better off then they were with this amount of games played last season.

United are 2 points worse off.

Well, the 'stage of the season' is an interesting statistic alright, but I think another perhaps more interesting one is corresponding fixtures and how teams fared compared to the previous season.

United got 17 points last season off the teams they have got 15 from this season. Which gives the same stat as the stage of the season. But Chelsea are 3 points worse off so far this season from the same fixtures. Liverpool are 9 points better off so far.

Arsenal had a similar start last season to Liverpool this season, winning 8 and drawing 1. Arsenal actually sustained their title challenge until mid February (26 matches in) being 5 points ahead of United, and 8 ahead of chelsea. It's then that the Arse fell apart, getting 4 points from a possible 15.

Aye, their players were knackered from not being rotated y'see.

Can Liverpool be taken as serious title contenders this year? Well maybe we can only go on what we have seen so far, they do deserve to be top thou, they have had a large slice of luck so far, but you need luck to win the toughest league in the world.

United and Chelsea are like unrelenting wolves thou, they will keep hunting for that top spot until the last day, has the balance of power shifted in the league? Personally I don't think so, but what has happened is Liverpool have fired a warning shot across the bows of the elite of the league and IMO have to be taken seriously for the moment anyways.

Agreed, the 'balance of power' won't actually shift until the last day of the season, and even then only if United don't win it. Then it might shift again a year later, and so on. If you take a ten year view it will take a long time for the balance of power to truly have shifted away from United even if they don't win it for another 7 or 8 years (unlikely). Hell, if you take a 100 year view, Liverpool tip the balance of power.

I don't agree on the 'luck' thing though. Liverpool have made their own results this season, though their mistakes, and through their graft and belief.

jesus_thats_gre

growler wrote: »

Anyway, with so many 1st team players injured and having to rely on Malouda and Anelka, it was only a matter of time before we lost a game!

Hard life eh Having to depend on 40 million pounds worth of talent... One of which has generated the highest value of transfers in history...

The only players that would have made any real difference to that Chelsea team are Drogba and J.Cole. Essien and Ballack missing don't count - they would if they were missing from any other team but Chelsea's.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Dunno, reckon Essien would have done a job for them.

And as for luck, it is funny how lucky teams become when they are playing better....

LuckyLloyd

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

And as for luck, it is funny how lucky teams become when they are playing better....

"Golf is a game of luck. The more I practice the luckier I get."

Thanx 4 The Fish

Indeed, Arnold Palmer knew what he was talking about.

Dont be at yourself

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Dunno, reckon Essien would have done a job for them.

In games like these, it's very difficult to say. They're decided by a single mistake, a single deflection, a single red-card or a single moment of magic. Anyway, as highly as I rate Essien - one of the top midfielders in the world, for me - Mikel was Chelsea's best player, by all accounts.

mike65

Gary Player it was

Mike

PHB

spockety wrote: »

There was also Gerrard's left foot volley that only Cech's fingertips saved, Riera had a good one in from the left that he smashed wide, Babel also sent a blistering right footer just wide. Liverpool created plenty of chances for an away side facing the best team in the league who haven't lost a tie there in 86 matches, thanks very much.

They did enough. They scored early. Then sat back. The chances you talked about were at best, at best, half chances, in the case of Gerrard's show, or good opportunities in the case of Babel and Riera. Not exactly what you'd call a good chance, one that when a striker missed you'd go 'ffs'.

There was some beautiful football yesterday attacking from Liverpool, dare I say some of the passing interchanges between Alonso, Gerrard, Riera, Masch and Kuyt were a lot more memorable than anything I can recall from the home side.

There was lovely passing interchanges in the middle. Nothing really too great in the final third. They were much better than the Chelsea side, nobody can deny that.

Actually very recent history has shown that it's IN the top league games that Liverpool can't raise their game. They got 4 points last year off United, Chelsea and Arsenal. So where are you getting this from?

Liverpool always raise their game against big teams. Sometimes however they don't get the results. But their ability to raise their game against big teams is why they are so ****ing good in the CL. They are winning the league games this year, but that was only one of the differences between Liverpool and the rest of the top 4 last year.

Arsenal have destroyed the mini-league before and not won the league. Why? The very top top top of the league can be decided in the top 4 mini league, as it was last year with United and Chelsea. But getting close to that top, i.e. not 9 points off, requires consistancy against the crap teams. That requires putting teams away early and easily. That's something Liverpool have not yet done yet, something nobody can deny.

The point I was making was that the match once again showed that Liverpools attacking ability was not up to a high enough level. With the numbers Chelsea were committing forward, the game should have been put away. Indeed there were many promising opportunities for Liverpool to break, but whoever had the ball made the wrong choice.

Liverpool were the AWAY side. Benitez's tactic was the _control_ the game (key word: control). Liverpool controlled the game, and Chelsea got barely a sniff. They resorted to Boswinga whipping balls into the box every 3 minutes to be knocked away by Agger or Carra. Game, set, match.

Indeed. Excellent tactics by Benetiz. Where did I say otherwise? The point I was making was that once again you could see how Liverpool's general attacking play just isn't to a high enough standard.

Merson nail head hitting is only relevant if it applies at the end of the season. We are only 9 games in.

That's only because we're not yet sure whether Liverpool can change that pattern against lower quality teams. If that doesn't change, he will have hit the nail on the head so to speak.

Just a reminder, Liverpool beat Wigan, and neither Gerrard nor Torres made the scoresheet.

Last season Liverpool scored from all over the park. I have not seen Liverpool do a backs to the wall defend for 90 minutes at all this season, what matches have you been watching?

Well, I was referring to two types of matches.
One was the Chelsea type game, where you got some luck, a goal went in, then you defended. Although you did not defend backs to the wall for 90 minutes, only 35, then started defending much higher up the pitch through the old Brazilian style of possession.

The other was the games such as the Wigan one. Where you are winning games 3-2, being 2-1 behind, then an opposition player getting sent off, then coming back to win. That shows resiliance. It's something a championship winning team does. However until the majority of the time the attacking play isn't creating enough on a regular basis, which is why games are being won at the end of the game by great stuff from individual players.

I mean, it was people like you who were preaching over the last few seasons that the only way Liverpool will stand a chance of getting the title is if Benitez throws the shackles off and realises we will need to concede a few goals to score more!

No doubt that. And I think Rafa is going for it, realising he needs to attack more. However at the same time, I don't think the balance is there yet.

Nobody is under any illusions. Liverpool fans do not expect that we should be looking at having to come back from being down in every match. I have not seen any Liverpool fan anywhere suggest that you can win a league title by going down in every match. Where are you getting this from?

Where are you getting that I suggested that there were Liverpool fans who did? I was just talking about what I thought about the match.

People like you will carry on saying until May that Liverpool are not your main threat. And that's fine. Recent history shows that it is United and Chelsea who deservedly expect to be up there in May. Liverpool fans can hope that your talk will make you look like a fool come May. Though even then I suspect there will be something else to have a dig about. Lucky lucky Liverpool, perhaps?

Yeh, cause everything is always about luck and jibes. Do you ever find it funny that my opinions on Arsenal aren't as negative? I don't dismiss them as lucky. It's as if its just the opinions I have about Liverpool, that Liverpool fans like to try dismiss as me having an agenda.

If Liverpool win at the end of the year, I'll have been somewhat wrong. But in reality, I won't have been that wrong. Because what I have said is two things. 1. Liverpool currently aren't attacking well enough to win the league by putting teams away 3/4 nil at ease. 2. Liverpool will not get that good at attacking and draw too many games.

There's no doubt that 1. is right. At the end of the year we'll see if 2. happens or not, it will be a matter of fact.

spockety wrote: »

PHB is a good poster, he can say a lot of sensible things. But I have to say that sometimes he drives me as nuts as people who are pure baiters, because he appears so reasoned in what he's saying, even if it's completely wrong. There is a difference between being reasoned and being reasonable, and I think a lot of what he said above is not very reasonable.

Ah, clever word play. What you've done there is equate being reasonable with agreeing with you.

There was little actual 'luck' involved in Alonso's goal. It was goal bound anyway, and nobody can say for certain if Cech would have saved it. Getting 'lucky' goals is when a defender turns a goal into his own net that wasn't even goalbound (a cross etc.), or when a goalie catches a ball only to fumble it into his own net etc. Alonso's goal will be credited to Alonso, not Boswinga.

Come on for crying out loud. Some goals are lucky. United score ****loads of lucky goals. Every top team does. A shot that didn't have a huge amount of power is struck, hits off a defender, wrong foots the keeper and goes in. If that's not the definition of a lucky goal in football then I don't think you can say that any goal is 'lucky'. Infact if thats not a 'lucky' goal, what is a lucky goal?

I think Liverpool deserve more respect for what they have already done this season, especially from supporters of teams we have despatched. The end of the season is the time to judge whether Liverpool deserve respect for the entire campaign, but right now nobody is giving us a prayer. They are entitled to their opinion, but we should not be afraid to take them up on it.

For somebody who constantly askes me 'where did I get that from?', where did you get that from?

I never said that they don't have a prayer, I said

Until Liverpool start doing that [putting poor teams away with ease], I won't be worried about them. That said, without doing that they are on top, so they've still got time to get their act together.

That's something I think is pretty much bang on the money. And nobody can deny that Liverpool have yet to show this year that their attack is fluid/effective/good enough to put these teams away without much strain.

mike65 wrote: »

Regarding PHB he is sowing the seeds so that if/when Liverpool come up short he can pull this thread out of the ether and show how he was so right, thing is no-one is actualy talking of Liverpool winning the league.

Ah yes, anybody who disagrees with the majority must have ulterior motives My main joy in life is proving how right I am using the quote function.

LuckyLloyd

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Indeed, Arnold Palmer knew what he was talking about.

mike65 wrote: »

Gary Player it was

Mike

Strike two. Anyone want to take another guess?

wcarey1975

two people are credited with actually saying it as far as I can remember. one was gary player and the other was ben hogan.

monkey9

ntlbell wrote: »

Pundits noted that Liverpool were winning games, without their full potential – An early sign of champions. Going into the match against Middleborough in early November, Liverpool had a four point lead at the top of the Premiership summit and only lost one in thirty league matches – to Tottenham in April 2002.

The lead was cut after a late Gareth Southgate header bemused goalkeeper Jerzy Dudek and punished their cautious defensive approach to the game. It became a fortnight to forget for Liverpool as they crashed out of the Champions League away to Basle, the match at home to Sunderland ended stalemate despite 24 shots on target for Liverpool and a double strike from Sava wounded any chance of a Liverpool comeback at Fulham. The manager publicly pointed his finger directly at Gerrard after his poor performances and promptly dropped him from the team altogether.[17]


A defeat to Manchester United at Anfield sparked a dramatic change in form. Liverpool started December in second place but after a month without a win, Gérard Houllier found his team lying in sixth at the turn of the New Year.

Gerard Houllier isn't our manager, Rafa Benitez is.
Jerzy Dudek isn't our goalkeeper, Pepe Reina is.
It isn't 2002, it's 2008
Chelsea hadn't lost a home game since 2004, now they have.
Things change my friend, things change!

I don't know why you're trying to prove that Liverpool won't win the league. No Liverpool fan here said we would. All we've said in general is we're now in a great position and look a lot more capable of doing it than any other time under Rafa, albeit after only nine games, which is all we can comment on at the moment.

Now Portsmouth is a huge match!!!

Dont be at yourself

Hyypia, Carragher and Gerrard are the only players left over from the Houllier days. If I had to pick any three players who would crumble when the pressure was on, it would obviously be those three. :rolleyes:

It's quite sad.

LuckyLloyd

wcarey1975 wrote: »

two people are credited with actually saying it as far as I can remember. one was gary player and the other was ben hogan.

Ha! Ok then, yourself and Mike get partial credit!

copacetic

PHB wrote: »

Ah yes, anybody who disagrees with the majority must have ulterior motives My main joy in life is proving how right I am using the quote function.

Maybe one day you will actually get to do it:D

Karmafaerie

Waster wrote: »

I copied you and backed Liverpool at 10-3. Hope you followed your own advice. The win coupled with Utd drawing has made it one sweet long weekend.

I'm over €100 up myself.:p

Great weekend for me.

I get derided from all sides for my prediction.
Utd draw with the Bluesh*te.
Liverpool beat Chelski (pretty much exactly as I said the game would go, except they never even managed to work Pepe).
Pundits give the same reason as I did for the victory (Full backs pushing forward, leaving space for Gerrard to exploit, and Scolari not being prepared when his attack, attack, attack didn't work.)
And then I woke up on Monday to run the Dublin marathon!

Now that's a good weekend!!!