Why do ppl hate veggies?

Sapsorrow

I've been a veggie on and off (mainly on by a long shot though) for over 10 yrs and during that time I have found myself under attack time and time again by hardcore meat eaters who think that just because I'm a vegetarian they have a right to attack my choices, criticise them, ridicule them and generally try to get up my back about it. This includes my mates too not just dickheads!
why do ppl think they have the right to do this? If it were a religion it would not be acceptable! I am sick of having to defend myself against these ppl who also constantly assume I'm some sort of preaching puritan who's going to try and convert them to vegetarianism and make them feel guilty for eating meat, which I have never done! IN fact I never bring up vegetarianism except with my veggie friends cos it's not worth the aggro, anyone else experience the same?
I don't give them grief or ridicule their choice to eat meat so why should they do it to us? It's so disrespectful! Thankfully i live in an all vegetarian house now yay!

I thought you meant why do people hate vegetables.
I was struck by a horrific thought today as I picked up a punnet of persimon.
What if all the foreigners go home, and we are left with a system that caters to a shower of vegetable haters again.
I can't go back. Seriously...I'll have to emigrate.

brianthebard

What's persimon?

Anyways op there are no "hardcore" meateaters, that's silly talk. But there is a stereotype of puritanical vegetarians, who like to get in people's faces. If you aren't one great but there's not much you can do either way, unless you go round to all the hardcore veggies and tell them to cop on.

Sapsorrow

Thats the thing I don't think I've ever met an in your face vegetarian and I know and have known loads over the years so it seems like an unfair and unrealistic assumption of the aggressive meat eaters to me.

Dont be at yourself

If you hold any view strongly, you must be prepared to defend it from criticism and ridicule. The same rings through for favourite sports teams, fashion sense and even religion!

I personally have trouble understanding how a human - biologically programmed to be omnivorous - can exclude themselves from eating meat. I do understand the moral side of things, but vegetarians often come across as either slightly hypocritical (ie. they might eat fish, or wear leather...) or militant. I wouldn't hate anybody for being a vegetarian, but I might try to discuss it with them to further my understanding, and put forward my own views, of course!

brendansmith

Veggies are usually quite preachy and mention that they are infact veggies at any given oppertunity.

T a r a L ' a r i o n

brianthebard

khrystyna100 wrote: »

Thats the thing I don't think I've ever met an in your face vegetarian and I know and have known loads over the years so it seems like an unfair and unrealistic assumption of the aggressive meat eaters to me.

You don't see any discrepancy between your statements on puritanical veggies and aggressive meat eaters? You are labelling people who don't eat the same way as you, and then think it doesn't come out in the way you act?

Sapsorrow

No need to be insulting brendan

Sapsorrow

no I'm not saying all meat eaters are a certain type of person at all, it's more that there are some who think they can just have a go at you just because you're a veggie and it just seems really rude. I never question anybodies choices regarding religion, morals, ethics etc I think ppl deserve respect for their choices once they are harmless to others

brianthebard

But you are labelling people who eat meat aggressive and hard core meat eaters!

Oshare Bones

khrystyna100 wrote: »

I've been a veggie on and off (mainly on by a long shot though) for over 10 yrs and during that time I have found myself under attack time and time again by hardcore meat eaters who think that just because I'm a vegetarian they have a right to attack my choices, criticise them, ridicule them and generally try to get up my back about it. This includes my mates too not just dickheads!
why do ppl think they have the right to do this? If it were a religion it would not be acceptable! I am sick of having to defend myself against these ppl who also constantly assume I'm some sort of preaching puritan who's going to try and convert them to vegetarianism and make them feel guilty for eating meat, which I have never done! IN fact I never bring up vegetarianism except with my veggie friends cos it's not worth the aggro, anyone else experience the same?
I don't give them grief or ridicule their choice to eat meat so why should they do it to us? It's so disrespectful! Thankfully i live in an all vegetarian house now yay!

My opinion on this is those meat-eaters are actually slightly insecure about their choice and don't need to be reminded of their insecurities by talking to you. I doubt there's a single meat-eater in the world who hasn't thought just once "I wonder did this pig/cow/chicken/etc suffer before making it to my plate".

Sapsorrow

No i'm not, I'm saying there are some ppl like that out there, it would be ridiculous to say that all meat eaters are aggressive or hardcore about it. But I have come across some ppl like that in the past but i know many more meat eaters who are not like that at all.

Oshare Bones

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

I personally have trouble understanding how a human - biologically programmed to be omnivorous

That's actually rubbish, we are programmed to survive in any way possible, not programmed to be omnivores. There was a (long) period in history when we needed to hunt/kill and eat animals in order to survive.

Now though we have reached a point in evolution where is not necessary to eat animals in order to survive, hence the existence of vegetarianism. Because there is no vitamin/nutrient contained in meat which can't be acquired elsewhere.

Edit - this is just my opinion but, ironically eating meat can actually work against survival in present times. There are many studies which have proven links between eating certain types of meat and developing certain types of cancer/obesity/illnesses/etc.

Sapsorrow

Also many scientists believe we evolved to eat raw meat with all it's natural enzymes intact, not cooked meat which is very indigestable compared to other food stuffs and this in many ways negates any health benifits that come from eating meat. We are surely emotionally evolved enough as a speices at this stage to be able to make decisions based on what is ecologicall and ethically responsible rather than trying to gratify our primal urges all the time.

Blazer

Oshare Bones wrote: »

My opinion on this is those meat-eaters are actually slightly insecure about their choice and don't need to be reminded of their insecurities by talking to you. I doubt there's a single meat-eater in the world who hasn't thought just once "I wonder did this pig/cow/chicken/etc suffer before making it to my plate".

And we have a winner!!!!...it's condescending ppl like yourself who presume they're right "the meat eaters are insecure".. oh god lol...what a stupid and meaningless comment.
This is why most people hate vegertarians.
In your face "I'm a veggie you cow murdering bastard", condescending, arrogant and thinking the choice they made should be followed by everyone else..blah blah blah...
My sister is vegetarian and wouldn't dream of lecturing the rest of our family on our food choices..but some people just can't help themselves.
In a way I think a lot of veggies (not all ) have an insecurity complex and act like this to make them feel better about themselves..

Dont be at yourself

That's actually rubbish, we are programmed to survive in any way possible, not programmed to be omnivores. There was a (long) period in history when we needed to hunt/kill and eat animals in order to survive.

Now though we have reached a point in evolution where is not necessary to eat animals in order to survive, hence the existence of vegetarianism. Because there is no vitamin/nutrient contained in meat which can't be acquired elsewhere.

Your post suggests that the default biological position is vegetarianism, and humanity only ate meat out of necessity.

Humanity, biologically, is omnivorous. You can dispute the reasons for this fact, but you cannot dispute the fact itself.

Nowadays, we can choose not to eat meat and still maintain a healthy diet. However, that is a conscious choice, and flies in the face of our evolution and our environment.

Sapsorrow

Neither side of the debate should generalise about the other, why so much hatred? why can ppl not just respect each others choices?

Oshare Bones

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

And we have a winner!!!!...it's condescending ppl like yourself who presume they're right "the meat eaters are insecure".. oh god lol...what a stupid and meaningless comment.
This is why most people hate vegertarians.
In your face "I'm a veggie you cow murdering bastard", condescending, arrogant and thinking the choice they made should be followed by everyone else..blah blah blah...
My sister is vegetarian and wouldn't dream of lecturing the rest of our family on our food choices..but some people just can't help themselves.
In a way I think a lot of veggies (not all ) have an insecurity complex and act like this to make them feel better about themselves..

This rant just proves my point even further. Why are you so offended by what I said?

Sapsorrow

funny starting a blog on this and straight away it has attracted the sort of anti-veggie attacks i was talking about

brendansmith

khrystyna100 wrote: »

No need to be insulting brendan

Opinion based on observation, thats what was asked!:p

Dont be at yourself

Also many scientists believe we evolved to eat raw meat with all it's natural enzymes intact, not cooked meat which is very indigestable compared to other food stuffs and this in many ways negates any health benifits that come from eating meat.

It's generally accepted by scientists that the main catalyst for the development of the human brain was the consumption of cooked meat, which then required less calories to digest while still preserving most of the nutritional value. This surplus was directed to the development of our brains!

We are surely emotionally evolved enough as a speices at this stage to be able to make decisions based on what is ecologicall and ethically responsible rather than trying to gratify our primal urges all the time.

Making ecologically and ethically sound decisions and gratifying our primal urges are not mutually exclusive. It is ecologically A-OK to eat another animal.

It is the issue of ethics and morality where I find the biggest gulf with vegetarians. I shed no tears for a slaughtered chicken or cow, and I struggle to understand those who do.

Oshare Bones

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Your post suggests that the default biological position is vegetarianism, and humanity only ate meat out of necessity.

Humanity, biologically, is omnivorous.

Wrong again

The "Paleolithic argument" runs something like this: The proto-human was indeed a frugivore (eating primarily fruit, such as modern chimps) 50 million years ago (MYA) to 2 MYA, when the "appearance of stone tools and cultures at this time" coincided with "increased meat-eating"URL="http://beyondveg.com/nicholson-w/hb/hb-interview1a.shtml"]W1[/URL. Well, that's the end of the argument, as its fatal flaw is revealed: the fact is that "increased meat-eating" occurred ONLY because of tool use, and since tools, including fire, are a product of culture, not Nature, cultural practices, such as those powerful self-destructive cultural practices of today, are totally unrelated to our natural nutritional needs, which are programmed at the genetic level.

I suggest reading the entire article about the human omnivore myth, it's actually written by a meat-eater and covers this argument from many different angles.

http://www.ecologos.org/omni.htm

brianthebard

khrystyna100 wrote: »

No i'm not, I'm saying there are some ppl like that out there, it would be ridiculous to say that all meat eaters are aggressive or hardcore about it. But I have come across some ppl like that in the past but i know many more meat eaters who are not like that at all.

Ok that's good, thank you for clearing that up.

khrystyna100 wrote: »

Also many scientists believe we evolved to eat raw meat with all it's natural enzymes intact, not cooked meat which is very indigestable compared to other food stuffs and this in many ways negates any health benifits that come from eating meat. We are surely emotionally evolved enough as a speices at this stage to be able to make decisions based on what is ecologicall and ethically responsible rather than trying to gratify our primal urges all the time.

I heard the same thing said about cooked meat (well that it was harder to digest raw) can you provide a link? This seems to me to be the sort of thing that science see saws on every few years.
As for primal urges, its foolish to think that we are not governed by animal instinct to a very large degree, even if we don't have to hunt to survive any more. If you are familiar with the concept of id and ego you'll know that primal urges are not something you can simply do away with, and that it would be illogical to do so.

khrystyna100 wrote: »

funny starting a blog on this and straight away it has attracted the sort of anti-veggie attacks i was talking about

Link?

Fighting Irish

khrystyna100 wrote: »

I've been a veggie on and off

:rolleyes:

Sapsorrow

the level of meat consumption inthe developed world is far far from ecological friendly, look at the amount of water, land and food that is wasted to produce beef inthe states, these resources could be much better used elsewhere.

Sapsorrow

sorry no link but try science direct or PUBMED, they're good for science journals etc.

Sapsorrow

Some have a primal urge to force others into having sex with them to satisfy their primal urge to procreate but we do not consider this acceptable

brianthebard

khrystyna100 wrote: »

the level of meat consumption inthe developed world is far far from ecological friendly, look at the amount of water, land and food that is wasted to produce beef inthe states, these resources could be much better used elsewhere.

I won't argue that farming in the US has taken a wrong turn but that doesn't mean you should consider Irish or European farmers in the same bracket.

khrystyna100 wrote: »

sorry no link but try science direct or PUBMED, they're good for science journals etc.

I don't think I can access Pubmed, don't you have to be a science student?

khrystyna100 wrote: »

Some have a primal urge to force others into having sex with them to satisfy their primal urge to procreate but we do not consider this acceptable

Can we please take a step back from comparing meat eating with rape? You wonder why people might have a problem with your views, when you are so willing to connect a crime like rape to eating meat?

Sapsorrow

Fighting Irish wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Give me a break I started when I was eleven yrs old and i had a couple of faltering moments as a young teenager

Dont be at yourself

Oshare Bones wrote:

Wrong again

I'll have to cordially disagree.

From the Vegetarianism Resource Group, perhaps more reputable and researched than your link.

Evidence of Humans as Omnivores

Archeological Record

As far back as it can be traced, clearly the archeological record indicates an omnivorous diet for humans that included meat. Our ancestry is among the hunter/gatherers from the beginning. Once domestication of food sources began, it included both animals and plants.

Cell Types

Relative number and distribution of cell types, as well as structural specializations, are more important than overall length of the intestine to determining a typical diet. Dogs are typical carnivores, but their intestinal characteristics have more in common with omnivores. Wolves eat quite a lot of plant material.

Fermenting Vats

Nearly all plant eaters have fermenting vats (enlarged chambers where foods sits and microbes attack it). Ruminants like cattle and deer have forward sacs derived from remodeled esophagus and stomach. Horses, rhinos, and colobine monkeys have posterior, hindgut sacs. Humans have no such specializations.

Jaws

Although evidence on the structure and function of human hands and jaws, behavior, and evolutionary history also either support an omnivorous diet or fail to support strict vegetarianism, the best evidence comes from our teeth.

The short canines in humans are a functional consequence of the enlarged cranium and associated reduction of the size of the jaws. In primates, canines function as both defense weapons and visual threat devices. Interestingly, the primates with the largest canines (gorillas and gelada baboons) both have basically vegetarian diets. In archeological sites, broken human molars are most often confused with broken premolars and molars of pigs, a classic omnivore. On the other hand, some herbivores have well-developed incisors that are often mistaken for those of human teeth when found in archeological excavations.

Salivary Glands

These indicate we could be omnivores. Saliva and urine data vary, depending on diet, not taxonomic group.

Intestines

Intestinal absorption is a surface area, not linear problem. Dogs (which are carnivores) have intestinal specializations more characteristic of omnivores than carnivores such as cats. The relative number of crypts and cell types is a better indication of diet than simple length. We are intermediate between the two groups.

Conclusion

Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, and health concerns.

[Dr. McArdle is a vegetarian and currently Scientific Advisor to The American Anti-Vivisection Society. He is an anatomist and a primatologist.]

http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm

Everything from the placement of our eyes, to the shape of our jaws and teeth, to our digestive systems would suggest that humans are omnivorous. To suggest that humans are vegetarian by nature is ridiculous - and I don't care what ill-researched, garishly-coloured website says otherwise.

Sapsorrow

brianthebard wrote: »

I won't argue that farming in the US has taken a wrong turn but that doesn't mean you should consider Irish or European farmers in the same bracket.



I don't think I can access Pubmed, don't you have to be a science student?



Can we please take a step back from comparing meat eating with rape? You wonder why people might have a problem with your views, when you are so willing to connect a crime like rape to eating meat?

Sorry it wasn't meant to be taken soliterally, obviously they're very different things but I was making a point about repression of animal instincts, that the repression of some is considered acceptable and indeed vital while the repression of another is considered by many impossible/inconceivable.

Don't think you have to be a science student, I am but don't see how they can check anyway