Why do ppl hate veggies?

Dont be at yourself

khrystyna100 wrote:

the level of meat consumption inthe developed world is far far from ecological friendly, look at the amount of water, land and food that is wasted to produce beef inthe states, these resources could be much better used elsewhere.

How much water, land and resources would be wasted to meet the entire world's dietary needs if they were all vegetarian?

Lots of land, water and food are used to produce meat because, well, a lot of people eat meat.

Is beef-production the most efficient way to produce protein to meet humanity's dietary needs? I don't know. I don't care. It tastes nice.

Sapsorrow

it's very easy not to care when you come from a world of plenty alright, thats the problem with the world

Dont be at yourself

it's very easy not to care when you come from a world of plenty alright, thats the problem with the world

It's very easy to care when you come from a world of plenty. I don't think you'll find too many vegetarians-by-choice in sub-saharan Africa or other impoverished areas of the planet.

Vegetarianism is only a practical choice to those with the resources and ability to fulfill their dietary requirements from other sources.

Sapsorrow

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

It's very easy to care when you come from a world of plenty. I don't think you'll find too many vegetarians-by-choice in sub-saharan Africa or other impoverished areas of the planet.

Vegetarianism is only a practical choice to those with the resources and ability to fulfill their dietary requirements from other sources.

dude what about India and China? tradittionally very low meat consumption and in many sub-populations veggies altogether!

brianthebard

khrystyna100 wrote: »

dude what about India and China? tradittionally very low meat consumption and in many sub-populations veggies altogether!

Sub saharan Africa is not the same as India or China. Try again and this time think before typing

Sapsorrow

brianthebard wrote: »

Sub saharan Africa is not the same as India or China. Try again and this time think before typing

obviously not the same thing but you were referring to impoverished parts of the world no? this they do have in common.

Oshare Bones

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

I'll have to cordially disagree.

From the Vegetarianism Resource Group, perhaps more reputable and researched than your link.



http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm

Everything from the placement of our eyes, to the shape of our jaws and teeth, to our digestive systems would suggest that humans are omnivorous. To suggest that humans are vegetarian by nature is ridiculous - and I don't care what ill-researched, garishly-coloured website says otherwise.

Firstly, nowhere once did I say we are vegetarian by nature. All that website proves is at one point in history we were omnivores. I will highlight this in bold because you seem to be having difficulty understanding me Present-day humans are not omnivores. We are capable of being so, just like we are capable of being cannibals. I suggest having a read of Dr. Richard Leakey's publications.

Dr. Richard Leakey, a renowned anthropologist, summarizes, "You can't tear flesh by hand, you can't tear hide by hand. Our anterior teeth are not suited for tearing flesh or hide. We don't have large canine teeth, and we wouldn't have been able to deal with food sources that require those large canines."

The long human intestinal tract actually makes it dangerous for people to eat meat. The bacteria in meat have extra time to multiply during the long trip through the digestive system, and meat actually begins to rot while it makes its way through the intestines. Many studies have also shown that meat can cause colon cancer in humans.
According to biologists and anthropologists who study our anatomy and our evolutionary history, humans are herbivores who are not well suited to eating meat.

Unlike natural carnivores, we are physically and psychologically unable to rip animals limb from limb and eat and digest their raw flesh. Even cooked meat is likely to cause human beings, but not natural carnivores, to suffer from food poisoning, heart disease, and other ailments.

Dont be at yourself

Present-day humans are not omnivores

What are we?

Oshare Bones

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

What are we?

Herbivores who are not suited to eating meat. according to Dr Leakey. Here are some more interesting extracts from his work.

Physiology
People who pride themselves on being part of the human hunter tradition should take a second look at the story of human evolution. Prehistoric evidence indicates that humans developed hunting skills relatively recently and that most of our short, meat-eating past was spent scavenging and eating almost anything in order to survive; even then, meat was a tiny part of our caloric intake.


Humans lack both the physical characteristics of carnivores and the instinct that drives them to kill animals and devour their raw carcasses. Ask yourself: When you see dead animals on the side of the road, are you tempted to stop for a snack? Does the sight of a dead bird make you salivate? Do you daydream about killing cows with your bare hands and eating them raw? If you answered "no" to all of these questions, congratulations—you're a normal human herbivore—like it or not. Humans were simply not designed to eat meat.


Although many modern humans eat a wide variety of plant and animal foods, earning us the honorary title of "omnivore," we are anatomically herbivorous. Biologists have established that animals who share physical characteristics also share a common diet. Comparing the anatomy of carnivores with our own clearly illustrates that we were not designed to eat meat.

Teeth and Nails
To contrast human physiology with that of carnivores, start at the beginning of the digestive tract. Teeth, nails, and jaw structure indicate that nature intended for people to eat a plant-based diet. They have much shorter and softer fingernails than animals and pathetically small "canine" teeth (they're canine in name only). In contrast, carnivores all have sharp claws and large canine teeth capable of tearing flesh.


The jaws of carnivores move only up and down, requiring them to tear chunks of flesh from their prey and swallow it whole. Humans and other herbivores can move their jaws up and down and from side to side, a movement that allows them to grind up fruit and vegetables with their back teeth. Like other herbivores, human back molars are flat and allow the grinding of fibrous plant foods. Carnivores lack these flat molars. If humans had been meant to eat meat, they would have the sharp teeth and claws of carnivores. Instead, their jaw structure, flat molars, and lack of claws indicate that they are best suited for a plant-based diet.

Stomach Acidity
After using their sharp claws and teeth to capture and kill their prey, carnivores swallow their food whole, relying on their extremely acidic stomach juices to do most of the digestive work. The stomach acid of carnivores actually plays a dual role-besides breaking down flesh, the acid also kills the dangerous bacteria that would otherwise sicken or kill the meat-eater.


As illustrated in the chart below, our stomach acids are much weaker in comparison because strong acids aren't needed to digest pre-chewed fruits and vegetables. In comparing the stomach acidity of carnivores and herbivores, it is obvious that humans fall into the latter category. We can cook meat to kill some of the bacteria and make it easier to chew, but it's clear that humans, unlike all natural carnivores, are not designed to easily digest meat.

Intestinal Length
Evidence of our herbivorous nature is also found in the length of our intestines. Carnivores have short intestinal tracts and colons that allow meat to pass through it relatively quickly, before it has a chance to rot and cause illness. Humans, on the other hand, have intestinal tracts that are much longer than carnivores of comparable size. Like other herbivores, longer intestines allow the body more time to break down fiber and absorb the nutrients from a plant-based diet.


The long human intestinal tract actually makes it dangerous for people to eat meat. The bacteria in meat have extra time to multiply during the long trip through the digestive system, and meat actually begins to rot while it makes its way through the intestines. Many studies have also shown that meat can cause colon cancer in humans.

Dont be at yourself

OK.
Just to absolutely clarify here:

You, in the 21st century, are proposing the humans are (and always have been?) by nature, vegetarian. You are proposing that meat-eating is a behavioural abnormality in the human brain that goes against natural dispositions? Have I got it right so far?

Oshare Bones

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

OK.
Just to absolutely clarify here:

You, in the 21st century, are proposing the humans are (and always have been?) by nature, vegetarian. You are proposing that meat-eating is a behavioural abnormality in the human brain that goes against natural dispositions? Have I got it right so far?

I am saying physically, genetically and anatomically we are structured to be vegetarians. This becomes obvious when you compare our bodies to a creature who eats meat only (E.g. lions) and then to a creature who eats fruit/plants only (E.g. gorillas). I do believe we are anatomically more similar to the gorilla. Address each of those 4 sub-headings in my previous post if you want to argue with me.

Dont be at yourself

I am saying physically, genetically and anatomically we are structured to be vegetarians. This becomes obvious when you compare our bodies to a creature who eats meat only (E.g. lions) and then to a creature who eats fruit/plants only (E.g. gorillas). I do believe we are anatomically more similar to the gorilla. Address each of those 4 sub-headings in my previous post if you want to argue with me.

Frankly, there is no point arguing with you. You will reject out of hand obvious biological indications of meat-eating such as the frontal orientation of our eyes and ears, as well as the indisputable historical evidence that not only Homo Sapiens, but also Homo Erectus whom we evolved from, had natural disposition towards meat-eating and an omnivore diet.

I'm not going to post links, as it is a futile exercise. I could find tomes and tomes of resources that would support me. You can no doubt do likewise. We'll have to agree to disagree, because, really, life is too short.

And I'm going for a ham sandwich before bedtime.

Oshare Bones

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Frankly, there is no point arguing with you. You will reject out of hand obvious biological indications of meat-eating such as the frontal orientation of our eyes and ears

I read the link you pasted but what has position of our eyes/ears got to do with anything? And regarding ME rejecting biological indications, you completely ignored my previous post which addressed 4 key biological traits that promote the vegetarian human argument.

CDfm

first of all its the superior attitude and vegetarians aint half sanctimonious.
They ruin meals for others with how can you eat .....? type questions.

Flatulence is also an issue. If you are having vegeterians to dinner you have to spend twice as long preparing.

But the ultiate for me is vegeterian resteraunts - you cant go in and order a meat option and if you bring your own meat they go all huffy on you.

Slaphead07

there does seem to be clear evidence that meat eating makes people incredibly stupid.

Sapsorrow

Slaphead07 wrote: »

there does seem to be clear evidence that meat eating makes people incredibly stupid.

Are you serious?

Sapsorrow

Actually just read the post before yours and I see what you mean now! lol

CDfm

Slaphead07 wrote: »

there does seem to be clear evidence that meat eating makes people incredibly stupid.

but it tastes soooo goood mmmmmmm;)

and tuna makes you smart - its got Omega 3 oil found only in fish mmmmmmmmmmm fish

And 95% of cow methane comes from their mouths and noses- methane is a greenhouse gas- so vegetarians are doing nothing to save the ozone layer.:mad:

Aha - yer argument is demolished just like that - i am very very against sweeping generalisations

Sapsorrow

CDfm wrote: »

but it tastes soooo goood mmmmmmm;)

and tuna makes you smart - its got Omega 3 oil found only in fish mmmmmmmmmmm fish

Do your research first, omega three is found in many plant sources such as flax seed, green leafy veg, nuts, seeds and various oils such as canola and soy.

Blazer

Oshare Bones wrote: »

This rant just proves my point even further. Why are you so offended by what I said?

I'm not offended just amused.
Your posted about meatusers being insecure and actually came across as being insecure yourself.

CDfm

khrystyna100 wrote: »

Do your research first, omega three is found in many plant sources such as flax seed, green leafy veg, nuts, seeds and various oils such as canola and soy.

Thats uncanny that is.:eek:

How you could just post extracts from my allergy sheet just like that.

Noopti

Oshare Bones wrote: »

I read the link you pasted but what has position of our eyes/ears got to do with anything?

Because binocular vision evolved to allow a hunter to properly gauge distance and perspective in order to make it more successful in catching prey. Prey in this case is not an apple.
Herbivorous have eyes on the side of their heads in order to have greater peripheral vision to keep a look out for predators.

Also, you brought up gorillas as being like us. Well Chimps are more like us and they hunt and eat monkeys.

Slaphead07

Noopti wrote: »

Chimps are more like us and they hunt and eat monkeys.

Speak for yourself.

Noopti

As a Homo Sapien, yes. What genus are you?

Whispered

khrystyna100 wrote: »

If it were a religion it would not be acceptable! I am sick of having to defend myself against these ppl

ok, so you're sick of having to defend yourself yet you start a thread nowing full well you were going to have to defend yourself? :rolleyes: Why defend yourself? If someone is genuinely interested I will happily answer questions, in fact I have a friend who is big into cooking, loves nothing better than a nice steak, we often sit and chat about it. I don't have to defend MY diet to anybody else and will tell them so if I feel the need.

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

If you hold any view strongly, you must be prepared to defend it from criticism and ridicule. The same rings through for favourite sports teams, fashion sense and even religion!
!

Very true,

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

(ie. they might eat fish, or wear leather...) or militant. I wouldn't hate anybody for being a vegetarian, but I might try to discuss it with them to further my understanding, and put forward my own views, of course!

Veggies dont eat fish You get the same with religion too, if you question at all you're being disrespectful and "attacking" what they believe in. It's silly really and does nothing for the image of the "cause" the person is defending. I can honestly say I have never been attacked over my diet or beliefs (besides on boards), probably because I am open to talking about it.

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

And we have a winner!!!!...it's condescending ppl like yourself who presume they're right "the meat eaters are insecure".. oh god lol...what a stupid and meaningless comment.
This is why most people hate vegertarians.
..

I wasn't aware most people did :rolleyes: have you ever, in real life been called a cow murdering bastard?

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

In a way I think a lot of veggies (not all ) have an insecurity complex and act like this to make them feel better about themselves..

so you slate someone for saying something and in the same post you do the same. although I can see why you would react to a post like that.

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

It is the issue of ethics and morality where I find the biggest gulf with vegetarians. I shed no tears for a slaughtered chicken or cow, and I struggle to understand those who do.

and thats fair enough, so long as you understand that there are those who do have moral issues with it.

brianthebard wrote: »

Can we please take a step back from comparing meat eating with rape? You wonder why people might have a problem with your views, when you are so willing to connect a crime like rape to eating meat?

I think she was making the point that we often have to supress primal urges.

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

How much water, land and resources would be wasted to meet the entire world's dietary needs if they were all vegetarian?
.

I will try to find a link but as far as i know you can feed a lot more people with crops on a piece of land than with meat rearing.

CDfm wrote: »

first of all its the superior attitude and vegetarians aint half sanctimonious.
They ruin meals for others with how can you eat .....? type questions.

how many veggies do you know? thats a huge big brush dipped with tar you have there. If you have veggies asking questions like that you are going to dinner with the wrong veggies.

CDfm wrote: »

But the ultiate for me is vegeterian resteraunts - you cant go in and order a meat option and if you bring your own meat they go all huffy on you.

Bring in a steak and ask em to cook it for you. Go on i dare you. tell them you want it nice and bloody.

Seriously though, if you dont like italian, dont go to an italian restaurant, don't like indian, dont go to an indian restaurant, if you don't like veggie, don't go......etc

Sapsorrow

helena.ryan wrote: »

ok, so you're sick of having to defend yourself yet you start a thread nowing full well you were going to have to defend yourself? :rolleyes: Why defend yourself? If someone is genuinely interested I will happily answer questions, in fact I have a friend who is big into cooking, loves nothing better than a nice steak, we often sit and chat about it. I don't have to defend MY diet to anybody else and will tell them so if I feel the need.


actually I'm new to this whole blogginh thing and for some silly reason I actually thought a vegetarian and vegan forum would attract predominately veggies and vegans rather than veggie bashers. I expected to hear more stories similar to mine from fellow veggies rather than it ending up in another meat vs veg debate!

ZYX

helena.ryan wrote: »

Seriously though, if you dont like italian, dont go to an italian restaurant, don't like indian, dont go to an indian restaurant, if you don't like veggie, don't go......etc

I think that was the point. Vegetarians will go to a meat restaurant with no vegetarian options on the menu and complain when all they get is a pasta dish.
Vast majority of vegetarians I know are not actual vegetarians. You have the usual fish eating crowd but also those who liberally sprinkle parmesan cheese on their "vegetarian food", or eat biscuits with fish oils in them or drink non-veggie wines etc, etc

Sapsorrow

Quote helena ryan: Veggies dont eat fish You get the same with religion too, if you question at all you're being disrespectful and "attacking" what they believe in. It's silly really and does nothing for the image of the "cause" the person is defending. I can honestly say I have never been attacked over my diet or beliefs (besides on boards), probably because I am open to talking about it.


YOu've been lucky if thats the case, I live with five other veggies not one of them's a preacher and they've all had the same exoerience in life, funnily enough, I've only ever felt like a girl was purposefully trying to pick holes in my morals and patronize my decision not to eat meat once, anyother times it's been men. I too am happy to discuss such things but I expect the same respect from the other person as i show for their decision to eat meat. I never try to change anyone's opinions or make them feel bad about what they do, so why should I be criticsed and condemed for my choices, I'm simply trying to live my life by a moral value I believe to be right and good and considerate as a person who loves animals, i do not see why that would offend anyone. Anyway I only ever mention my vegetarianism in passing if necessary, i certainly don't go looking to debate it with ppl I suspect are going to judge me negatively for it because it's not worth the aggro. I'm not being neurotic as you indicated by comparing it to the sort of stigma associated with religion, that is a little presumptious of you, as i said earlier it's more about mutual respect and manners rather than my values or choices not being up for discussion

Washout

what exactly is wrong with a live and let live attidude.

why do humans have to be so judgemental on what a person looks like, chooses to wear, philosphies of life, and what one chooses or doesnt choose to eat.

I come form a culture where the majority of people are vegitarian and thus the opposite question is more relevant "Why do ppl hate meat eaters".

For me its all down to tribalism. the majority will always try to sway the minority so the community can live in harmony where all think is alike.

In most families, if one person decides to become vegitarian then the entire family tries to convince them otherwise and it can become a constant source of arguement even resentment.

I dont think that people hate veggies...its really just down to lack of understaning to why

Whispered

ZYX wrote: »

I think that was the point. Vegetarians will go to a meat restaurant with no vegetarian options on the menu and complain when all they get is a pasta dish.
Vast majority of vegetarians I know are not actual vegetarians. You have the usual fish eating crowd but also those who liberally sprinkle parmesan cheese on their "vegetarian food", or eat biscuits with fish oils in them or drink non-veggie wines etc, etc

yep, it's very annoying when you see a "veggie" order fish or the likes, it leads to statements like "x is a veggie, he eats fish". There are plenty of restaurants who have loads of veggie choice. In those that dont, I will often order a starter and a side (a lot of places have great veggie starters). It is pretty annoying when you can only get pasta in places.

khrystyna100 wrote: »

YOu've been lucky if thats the case, I live with five other veggies not one of them's a preacher and they've all had the same exoerience in life,

thats strange, because a few of my friends are veggies and very rarely is there anything that could be deemed "attacking". Questioning maybe, some banter or slagging, but nothing OTT. Or maybe we just dont care enough about what other people think to let it bother us.

khrystyna100 wrote: »

I'm not being neurotic as you indicated by comparing it to the sort of stigma associated with religion, that is a little presumptious of you, as i said earlier it's more about mutual respect and manners rather than my values or choices not being up for discussion

See the way I see it, vegetarianism and religion are similar in that everyone has a slightly different belief and that belief is based on morals and ethics. It's a personal choice for personal reasons. That is why some people get very upset when questioned about either. If you decide to read that as me calling you neurotic.... well..... self fulfilling prophesy?

khrystyna100 wrote: »

as i said earlier it's more about mutual respect and manners rather than my values or choices not being up for discussion

manners and respect are obviously very important. Thats why I will avoid getting into a conversation where someone is being rude. But I just can believe it's as bad as it seems, I really have never had a problem and you're starting a thread "why do ppl hate veggies" implying that all non veggies hate veggies which is certainly not the case. So I have to wonder what is the norm, do most other veggies feel victimised too? I certainly don't.

Climate Expert wrote: »

Veggies are just opinionated bores in my experience. Difficult to eat out and hence socialise with.

you're cute. IT's not difficult to eat out as a veggie at all. Seriously, I mean that. Unless you're talking about the like of McDonalds. Most places now have a great selection for veggies.

Washout wrote: »

I dont think that people hate veggies...its really just down to lack of understaning to why

Yep I agree. But really, I think most people just don't care what another eats to be honest.