Fahey for Ireland

OhNoYouDidn't

estebancambias wrote: »

yeah if he identifies himself as being english then thats fine but I'm arguing with pure cork who criticises Ireland for picking foreign born players, but he finds it acceptable for a country like France to do it.

But France picking Thuram, a French citizen from birth from one of their colonies, which does not have an international side, is an entirely different thing than picking Kieran Westwood, who by his own admission is not Irish and does not identify himself as Irish but happens to be eligible for an Irish passport.

estebancambias

well tbh i didn't know they didn't have a team. so yeah that point is stupid by me.

Pure Cork

shane86 wrote: »

The personal abuse rule prevents me from giving opinion on that type of player.

I think this is the first thing I agree with you on. No matter how good a player is, if he doesn't want to play for whatever reason then he can f*** off. This applies for both club and country.

shane86 wrote: »

They are colonies. Full of colonised people. Would you think it would be a good thing if there were no home nation teams and we were still part of Britain? Irish players playing on a UK team singing God Save the Queen staring at a British flag?

Personally I wouldn't like it, but I don't think the West Brits would mind.

SectionF

shane86 wrote: »

Why pick token players?

Have you seen enough of Westwood to be certain he is worse than several LOI goalies, or are you just assuming it?

I'm not suggesting tokenism. Nor am I suggesting that we pick LoI players who demonstrably are not as good as those playing elsewhere. What I am suggesting is that we drop the blanket ban which clearly has applied in recent years to including players from our own league.
I haven't seen Westwood play, but I am not an international selector. How many of our them have seen Brian Murphy play. You seldom get unanimity among LoI fans on players' qualities, but both Murphy and Fahey are so exceptional that it is simply criminal that they be ignored. But the closed mindset of the FAI international setup means that is what is happening, even as, as has been pointed out, M. Kalonas gets his game for a higher ranking team.

bobbysands81

Gavin shels wrote: »

They're both Scottish who are too good for Scotland and are not good enough for Ireland. Ireland should be a team of Irish players, playing in an Irish league, like most other international. But instead we have English, Scottish and even an American (we all remember good oul Joseph Lapira and his famous uncle in the FAI) playing for OUR international side, OUR IRISH international side.

How I wish I was around for the days our national side was made up with Irish players playing in the LoI.

This country has been since the 70's and always will be connected to the "mainland" for football, be it international or domestic, it really is a shame, it really is a sham, it really is a horrible footballing national we have and probably alwasy will have to live we in the majoirty.

But McGeady and McCarthy have ALWAYS considered themselves Irish, just like many others who were not born on this island but who consider themselves... and are recognised as Irish.

McCarthy and McGeady are both Irish. Choosing Ireland is not a career move for them, it's a natural decision.

Do you think that Paul McGrath should not have played for Ireland? What about Dave O'Leary?

I differnetiate between players such as McGrath, O'Leary, McCarthy and McGeady who play for Ireland as it's their country... could the likes of Townsend, Slavin, Kernaghan etc... say the same?

Only people whom consider themselves Irish should be picked to play for Ireland.

pablomakaveli

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Only people whom consider themselves Irish should be picked to play for Ireland.

+1.

It would be nice to see an irish manager who would only pick players who feel irish and who are proud to wear the green jersey rather than picking any Tom,Dick and Harry in England who declares themself for ireland just to further their career.

it's actually embarrassing when these players suddenly declare themselves for ireland and more often then not get a call up for Ireland.

gustavo

bobbysands81 wrote: »

But McGeady and McCarthy have ALWAYS considered themselves Irish, just like many others who were not born on this island but who consider themselves... and are recognised as Irish.

McCarthy and McGeady are both Irish. Choosing Ireland is not a career move .

Unless I'm mistaken I think it was McCarthy who said he would have played for Scotland if they had called him up at the time but they didn't so he opted for us.

Frankie Lee

Back on topic, Keith Fahey is good enough to play for Ireland, I'd rate him a better centre midfielder than Glenn Whelan and about as good as Andy Reid.

He would please Dunphy & co with his set piece delivery's also.

I would not be surprised if he moved to the Bundesliga after his performances against Hertha where he was the best player on the pitch in both legs.

djpbarry

Jivin Turkey wrote: »

So assuming Fahey moves to the Premiership and fails to make the grade again who will be the next overhyped player out of the LOI to be championed for a place on the national team?

Kevin Doyle, Damien Delaney, Wes Hoolahan, Shane Long, Daryl Murphy are all ex-LOI and have all been in recent Ireland squads. You might argue that Doyle is the only first-choice from that list, but our options would be severely limited without those 5 players. Add to that future possible call-ups such as Stephen Ward, Noel Hunt, Roy O’Donovan, etc. and you begin to see the importance of the LOI in producing players for the national side.

shane86 wrote: »

Have you seen enough of Westwood to be certain he is worse than several LOI goalies, or are you just assuming it?

That’s not really the point, is it? Remember, you were the one who said that “Ireland managers want players who have experience playing against teams full of international calibre players.” Did Westwood fulfil that criterion when he was playing for Carlisle? Did Peter Murphy?

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Joe Gamble is another brilliant player who deserves more oppurtunities in the irish squad.

I actually think that Gamble is more Trap’s type of player than Fahey.

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Our only misfortune was to never have one or two massive clubs a la Celtic or Rangers that might keep our stars at home.

We do, or at least we did. The League of Ireland was very well attended up to the late 60’s. But then, with the advent of the likes of “Match of the Day”, the media started to focus on the British leagues more and more. It’s incredible to think that the League of Ireland did not feature on live television until 1997.

shane86 wrote: »

What's the problem? There is a big difference between the Aran Islands and French colonies thousands of miles away.

No there isn’t actually. If a player is entitled to a French passport, then he is eligible to play for France. Simple as.

ibh

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Back on topic, Keith Fahey is good enough to play for Ireland, I'd rate him a better centre midfielder than Glenn Whelan and about as good as Andy Reid.

He would please Dunphy & co with his set piece delivery's also.

I would not be surprised if he moved to the Bundesliga after his performances against Hertha where he was the best player on the pitch in both legs.

Can we have a reality check here please??? Maybe he is as good or better than Glenn Whelan, but he has certainly not proven himself to be as good as Andy Reid.

Edit: Fixed for pedantry

SectionF

ibh wrote: »

Can we have a reality check here please??? Maybe he is as good or better than Glenn Whelan, but he has certainly not proven himself to be better than Andy Reid.

Utterly futile argument, either way.
The point is that he is good enough for the team.

_blank_

ibh wrote: »

but he has certainly not proven himself to be better than Andy Reid.

Nobody, not on this thread, not in other threads, has claimed that Fahey is better than Reid.

Not even in the post you quoted.

ibh

SectionF wrote: »

Utterly futile argument, either way.
The point is that he is good enough for the team.

Team or squad??? Personally i don't think the first 11 should include him.

shane86

djpbarry wrote: »

That’s not really the point, is it? Remember, you were the one who said that “Ireland managers want players who have experience playing against teams full of international calibre players.” Did Westwood fulfil that criterion when he was playing for Carlisle? Did Peter Murphy?

The chances that Westwood will get a game within the next 7 years are fairly low so it hardly matters.

No there isn’t actually. If a player is entitled to a French passport, then he is eligible to play for France. Simple as.

So if we rushed through passports for Brazillians, like Poland did, that would be fine?

Mitch Connor

shane86 wrote: »

The chances that Westwood will get a game within the next 7 years are fairly low so it hardly matters.





So if we rushed through passports for Brazillians, like Poland did, that would be fine?

Hasn't Fifa effectively put a stop to that after the Darren Gibson stuff - having a passport does not automatically mean you can play for the national football side now, right?

estebancambias

here joe gamble played well for ireland in his 2 games, and then just was never selected again. i'd say he's definetly better than Liam Miller.

djpbarry

shane86 wrote: »

The chances that Westwood will get a game within the next 7 years are fairly low so it hardly matters.

I don't think it's that unlikely; I don't think it could be said we have an automatic first-choice keeper after Given. I think it's quite probable that Westwood will feature in friendlies at least.

But anyway, that's still avoiding the point. He was called up even though he was playing at a fairly low level, which would seem to contradict your earlier point.

shane86 wrote: »

So if we rushed through passports for Brazillians, like Poland did, that would be fine?

Poland are entitled to grant citizenship to whoever they want - that's got nothing to do with football.

premierstone

estebancambias wrote: »

here joe gamble played well for ireland in his 2 games, and then just was never selected again. i'd say he's definetly better than Liam Miller.

Quite entitled to your opinion, but heres a list of somewhat more qualified people who might not agree with you - Martin O'Neill, Alex Ferguson, Roy Keane, Brian Kerr, Steven Staunton and Giovanni Trapatoni

OhNoYouDidn't

premierstone wrote: »

Quite entitled to your opinion, but heres a list of somewhat more qualified people who might not agree with you - Martin O'Neill, Alex Ferguson, Roy Keane, Brian Kerr, Steven Staunton and Giovanni Trapatoni

This would be the same Liam Miller who is buried in an already poor Sunderland sides reserves versus Joe Gamble who is playing well in exactly the holding role Traps is looking at?

Millers career has at best stagnated since he left Celtic and very few people supported his recent inclusion in the Irish side. Whelan and Gibson struggled and Gamble is one of few defensive midfielders in form we have.

Fahey would be unlikely to feature as that 'libero' role is not one being utilised at the moment. But he is a better set piece option than anything in the team at the moment.

As for the goalkeeper issue, both the Murphy's are far better options than Westwood. Brian is considered the best in the league and Barry has excelled on under 23 duty. It the only black mark against Traps so far, the echoes of the Charlton days in picking Westwood ahead of better Irish options.

premierstone

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

This would be the same Liam Miller who is buried in an already poor Sunderland sides reserves versus Joe Gamble who is playing well in exactly the holding role Traps is looking at?

Millers career has at best stagnated since he left Celtic and very few people supported his recent inclusion in the Irish side. Whelan and Gibson struggled and Gamble is one of few defensive midfielders in form we have.

Fahey would be unlikely to feature as that 'libero' role is not one being utilised at the moment. But he is a better set piece option than anything in the team at the moment.

As for the goalkeeper issue, both the Murphy's are far better options than Westwood. Brian is considered the best in the league and Barry has excelled on under 23 duty. It the only black mark against Traps so far, the echoes of the Charlton days in picking Westwood ahead of better Irish options.

And would this Joe Gamble you speak of be the same Joe Gamble who failed to make it at a mid-table championship team

Draupnir

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

As for the goalkeeper issue, both the Murphy's are far better options than Westwood. Brian is considered the best in the league and Barry has excelled on under 23 duty. It the only black mark against Traps so far, the echoes of the Charlton days in picking Westwood ahead of better Irish options.

Wayne Henderson will be back in the reserves for Preston in the next couple of weeks, with a bit of luck his injuries will be behind him and we will have our second best keeper back and available to us.

That should put an end to Westwoods international ambitions unless he develops into a very good keeper.

djpbarry

premierstone wrote: »

And would this Joe Gamble you speak of be the same Joe Gamble who failed to make it at a mid-table championship team

:rolleyes:

There was a time when Kevin Doyle couldn't get a game at St. Pat's.

CHD

premierstone wrote: »

Quite entitled to your opinion, but heres a list of somewhat more qualified people who might not agree with you - Martin O'Neill, Alex Ferguson, Roy Keane, Brian Kerr, Steven Staunton and Giovanni Trapatoni

Steven Staunton lol

premierstone

djpbarry wrote: »

:rolleyes:

There was a time when Kevin Doyle couldn't get a game at St. Pat's.

Joe Gamble is in he's mid 20's not exactly an up and coming prospect, anyway this is offtopic, Keith Fahey is an extremely talented footballer and i just hope that at 25(almost 26) that this happens sooner rather than later and he can only improve if he gets to play at a higher standard

estebancambias

CHD wrote: »

Steven Staunton lol

lolz

premierstone

estebancambias wrote: »

lolz

Conveniently ignoring the other managers on that list are we??

estebancambias

well no for me it was more the 'steven' that i found hilarious.

pablomakaveli

premierstone wrote: »

Joe Gamble is in he's mid 20's not exactly an up and coming prospect, anyway this is offtopic, Keith Fahey is an extremely talented footballer and i just hope that at 25(almost 26) that this happens sooner rather than later and he can only improve if he gets to play at a higher standard

Joe gamble is around the same age as Fahey. If you can consider fahey as a good prospect at 25 surely you can't dismiss joe gamble for being too old at 26?

applehunter

I would have no problem with fahey in the squad. Hes as good a footballer as we have.

LuckyLloyd

Pure Cork wrote: »

The Lithuania manager has no problem calling up and starting Kalonas who plays for Bohs. Lithuania are ranked higher than Ireland in the FIFA rankings. Kalonas has 33 caps and 1 goal for his country.

SOLID. Lets start handing the caps out to those EL players.

SectionF

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

This would be the same Liam Miller who is buried in an already poor Sunderland sides reserves versus Joe Gamble who is playing well in exactly the holding role Traps is looking at?

Millers career has at best stagnated since he left Celtic and very few people supported his recent inclusion in the Irish side. Whelan and Gibson struggled and Gamble is one of few defensive midfielders in form we have.

Fahey would be unlikely to feature as that 'libero' role is not one being utilised at the moment. But he is a better set piece option than anything in the team at the moment.

As for the goalkeeper issue, both the Murphy's are far better options than Westwood. Brian is considered the best in the league and Barry has excelled on under 23 duty. It the only black mark against Traps so far, the echoes of the Charlton days in picking Westwood ahead of better Irish options.

Great post ONYD

5ForKeeps

He should be given a chance in the upcoming friendly next month against the Poles, worth a try to see what he can do at International level. His by far the best player in the eircom loi and very skillful and pacey player.

OhNoYouDidn't

premierstone wrote: »

And would this Joe Gamble you speak of be the same Joe Gamble who failed to make it at a mid-table championship team

as opposed to Miller who has failed to make it anywhere since he left Celtic?

sure Theirry Henry failed to make it at Juve - the point is moot.

LuckyLloyd

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

as opposed to Miller who has failed to make it anywhere since he left Celtic?

86 league appearances since 2005 at Championship and Premiership level and still in the Ireland squad.

Liam Miller >>>>>>>>>>>> Gamble or any of the other second rate players in the EL.

estebancambias

the 'EL' that you speak of doesn't exist.


are you saying that all 'EL' players second rate(providing you use liam miller as being first rate)

LuckyLloyd

estebancambias wrote: »

the 'EL' that you speak of doesn't exist.


are you saying that all 'EL' players second rate(providing you use liam miller as being first rate)

No, I'm saying that Premiership and Championship football is >>>>>> EL football.

Which is unfortunately something that you guys can never seem to fully grasp. I know that there has been a handful of players in the EL who have gone over and survived at the top level in England - but they represent a tiny fraction of all the players who have played in the EL. And there are the notable cases of players who have gone over and been forced back home when they haven't been able to cut it.

When Trapp likened the EL to the bottom half of Seria B he was probably being charitable.

estebancambias

i'd say bohs and pats would survive championship.

pats probably play better football than most of the teams as well.

LuckyLloyd

estebancambias wrote: »

i'd say bohs and pats would survive championship.

pats probably play better football than most of the teams as well.

lol. Well, I strongly disagree.

But in any case, the constant re airing of this argument from the EL diehards on boards is pointless. The footballing professionals (scouts, coaches, managers, general managers, International staff) disagree with you. And that is the ultimate deciding factor.

In all probability, the Irish National side will never select EL regulars. And rightly so. We need to pick the best players available. If you're playing your club football in this country you're not good enough. If you can go over and carve a career out for yourself at the higher level then you've proved yourself and can get in.

Good system. Long may it last.

OhNoYouDidn't

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No, I'm saying that Premiership and Championship football is >>>>>> EL football.

Which is unfortunately something that you guys can never seem to fully grasp. I know that there has been a handful of players in the EL who have gone over and survived at the top level in England - but they represent a tiny fraction of all the players who have played in the EL. And there are the notable cases of players who have gone over and been forced back home when they haven't been able to cut it.

When Trapp likened the EL to the bottom half of Seria B he was probably being charitable.

None of this is in any way shape or form relevent to the topic in hand. Are there players in the LoI who are currently on better form than some of the Irish squad who appear to be there on reputation alone, or English no-marks like Westwood.

No-one has claimed the LoI is better than the EPL - we are merely saying that there has been a discernible increase in the quality being produced at home - the list has been repeated ad nauseum, and the simple question is why wait till Fahey moves to England or Germany, which he will, and not cap him now?

OhNoYouDidn't

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

In all probability, the Irish National side will never select EL regulars. And rightly so. We need to pick the best players available. If you're playing your club football in this country you're not good enough. If you can go over and carve a career out for yourself at the higher level then you've proved yourself and can get in.

Good system. Long may it last.

How is that in any way shape or form a good system?

LuckyLloyd

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

How is that in any way shape or form a good system?

Because it increases the chances our national team get to major finals because we insist that our players must play at the highest levels.

Anyway, why do you guys argue this over and over? You may feel like you prove a point on boards or something. lol. Nothing changes because of it. The rest of the footballing world doesn't give a **** about the EL. And won't.

estebancambias

luckyloyd why didn't bilic adopt this approach with players like Modric and Eduardo. The standard of the Croatian League wouldn't be that much higher than LOI...its only a few places above us in the uefa coefficent table yet he passed up players playing in superior leagues and look how it worked out.

_blank_

I wish ignorant people would stop calling it the "E"L tbh.

LuckyLloyd

Des wrote: »

I wish ignorant people would stop calling it the "E"L tbh.

Ah well, the Premiership was called the First Division for a while before people got used to the new name. Sorry to be offending irrelevant minorities in this case however.

_blank_

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

irrelevant minorities

Are you calling LoI fans an irrelevent minority?

If not, could you clarify that apparently trolling statement, please.

LuckyLloyd

Des wrote: »

Are you calling LoI fans an irrelevent minority?

If not, could you clarify that apparently trolling statement, please.

Oh that is exactly what I meant. Hey, given that you guys seem to do little than argue the same things over and over maybe we could just start a single "EL Thread*" each season. Stick all comments relating to games; players being hard done by the Irish set up; failed European campaigns; squabbles with the GAA; clubs going bust; league losing it's sponsor; what it means to be a real fan and any other general injustices there. That way, we'll only need to have each argument once a year. Keep the forum clutter free and tidy ye away into the corner.

What do you say?

*Whooops. Obv we can call it the "LOI Thread".

_blank_

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Oh that is exactly what I meant. Hey, given that you guys seem to do little than argue the same things over and over maybe we could just start a single "EL Thread*" each season. Stick all comments relating to games; players being hard done by the Irish set up; failed European campaigns; squabbles with the GAA; clubs going bust; league losing it's sponsor; what it means to be a real fan and any other general injustices there. That way, we'll only need to have each argument once a year. Keep the forum clutter free and tidy ye away into the corner.

What do you say?

*Whooops. Obv we can call it the "LOI Thread".

Or the "English" football "fans" could all fúck off to a dedicated "English" football forum?

What do you say to that?

applehunter

Always the same Luckylloyd. UCD fan arent you?

ditpoker

Lloyd pwns this thread.

Fahey, as much as i like him, and he is one of the best the league has to offer, and I love watching him play against similar Irish league opposition, is still NOT GOOD ENOUGH for the championship. if we was, he;d be there... did he ever have trials with a UK team, i dont know, just asking??

this argument has been done to death.

pablomakaveli

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Oh that is exactly what I meant. Hey, given that you guys seem to do little than argue the same things over and over maybe we could just start a single "EL Thread*" each season. Stick all comments relating to games; players being hard done by the Irish set up; failed European campaigns; squabbles with the GAA; clubs going bust; league losing it's sponsor; what it means to be a real fan and any other general injustices there. That way, we'll only need to have each argument once a year. Keep the forum clutter free and tidy ye away into the corner.

What do you say?

*Whooops. Obv we can call it the "LOI Thread".

If you don't want to discuss the LOI than what the hell are you doing on this thread when there are several on the soccer forum that might interest you more.

i don't understand why guys like you need to come on to LOI threads just to go on about how you think the LOI is s**t and then say something like "i saw a couple of LOI games on tv and its crap" or the old chesnut "i used to go regularly 10 years ago and it was crap".

the reason why we argue on behalf of the league is because we are passionate about our teams and our league. and its hard to watch the clubs we love struggle because of the bandwagon brigade who would rather support a rich english club who are in the champions league than their local LOI team. (btw im not criticising people who are genuine fans of english clubs but rather the armchair fans).

as for the international team. given the lack of quality irish players coming up through the game in england the LOI is going to become more important in developing our young players.