Roundabout near B&Q halfords Tipp RD

baza1976

Hi,
When using the above roundabout heading from childers rd towards tipp town direction it drives me mad that everyone bar the odd exception uses the wrong exit.
As far as I'm aware and I don't think the rule book has changed, for the first 2 exits you must use the outside lane at this roundabout for the other exits use the inside lane unless signs say otherwise.
So I always use the inside lane when going straight on (as the 1st exit brings you up blood mill road towards childers rd shopping centre and the 2nd takes you to castletroy) and \i always get a little beep from those that "know Better". One of these days I'm going to stop the car (if beeped) in the middle of the round about and go back to yer man or woman and refresh their driving skills.

I'd be interested to know how people here approch this roundabout???

Mr E

The rules of the road surrounding roundabouts don't refer to 1st exit, 2nd exit, 3rd exit. They refer to turning left, going straight on, and "any later turns".
If coming from Childers road:

- Left Lane if taking either of the left turns (Blood Mill Road, Castletroy)
- Left Lane if going straight on (Tipperary Road)
- Right Lane if turning right (Ballysimon Road)

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

Builderfromhell

Interesting post.
Coming down Mallow st. to the Roundabout at Jury's is interesting.
There are 3 lanes.
The left for going down Dock rd.
The middle for going across the Bridge.
and the right lane is clearly marked for going over the bridge or turning right.
I always use this lane for going straight and nearly always get honked by others who have quequed in middle lane.

Liam Byrne

Mr E wrote: »

The rules of the road surrounding roundabouts don't refer to 1st exit, 2nd exit, 3rd exit. They refer to turning left, going straight on, and "any later turns".
If coming from Childers road:

- Left Lane if taking either of the left turns (Blood Mill Road, Castletroy)
- Left Lane if going straight on (Tipperary Road)
- Right Lane if turning right (Ballysimon Road)

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

I'd check that again if I were you.....

Firstly, ALL descriptions of roundabouts show a standard 4-road design with 2 approach lanes; there are no official ones that cover a 3 or 5 road layout. Numerous ads have said that the "left and straight on, use the left lane" applies to the 1st and second exits.

The only implied reference to this in the link you provided - and you said it yourself; it doesn't say "using the third exit" or "turning right"; it says "Taking any later exits".

The OP is spot-on; left lane is for first 2 exits, and right lane is for subsequent ones. But even then there are exceptions, when the exit road has 2 lanes, or (as is the case at the Jury's Inn r/a) where there are 3 entry lanes. Jury's would imply left, straight ahead and right, but it's marked otherwise (just as some r/a have road markings saying use right lane for straight ahead).

But it is a joke in many cases; as an example, if there's a car in front of you then you won't see the arrows on the road until the last second.

At least people appear to have stopped using the right lane for taking the second exits; that was a regular annoyance for me for years and I've nearly collided with these idiots cutting across me on numerous occasions.

mud

Builderfromhell wrote: »

Interesting post.
Coming down Mallow st. to the Roundabout at Jury's is interesting.
There are 3 lanes.
The left for going down Dock rd.
The middle for going across the Bridge.
and the right lane is clearly marked for going over the bridge or turning right.
I always use this lane for going straight and nearly always get honked by others who have quequed in middle lane.

need to check this but my memory is that the right lane is clearly marked with a right turn arrow and no straight ahead one

It's def a grey area when so many roundabouts have multiple exits

The worst one I've come across is the one where you join the dual carraigeway (towards cork) off the bsimon road there's only two exits, cork road or town yet people insist on joining from the right hand lane only to take the first exit, makes my skin crawl when I see the near misses

Jumpy

baza1976 wrote: »

Hi,
When using the above roundabout heading from childers rd towards tipp town direction it drives me mad that everyone bar the odd exception uses the wrong exit.
As far as I'm aware and I don't think the rule book has changed, for the first 2 exits you must use the outside lane at this roundabout for the other exits use the inside lane unless signs say otherwise.
So I always use the inside lane when going straight on (as the 1st exit brings you up blood mill road towards childers rd shopping centre and the 2nd takes you to castletroy) and \i always get a little beep from those that "know Better". One of these days I'm going to stop the car (if beeped) in the middle of the round about and go back to yer man or woman and refresh their driving skills.

I'd be interested to know how people here approch this roundabout???

I hate to say it, but I would beep you too. The only use for the right lane is to turn off to City East or do a full turn of the roundabout.
The continuation of the Ballysimon road is dead straight. You would NOT use the right lane for exit onto this. You could cause a severe accident.
The number of exits does not dictate the lane to use when traversing a roundabout.
There should really be markings for this road, but you have to be aware that 90% of the road users that traverse this roundabout do it the way I have just explained and not all pay a large amount of attention so by using the inside lane you could easily end up on the other side of the road when you are hit in the side of your vehicle by someone continuing straight.

Another thing to note, if you stop and exit your vehicle (or even stop and make gestures) because someone sounds their horn it is considered road rage, it will not prove anything to the person and will most likely get you charged.

Wishbone Ash

baza1976 wrote: »

for the first 2 exits you must use the outside lane at this roundabout for the other exits use the inside lane unless signs say otherwise.
So I always use the inside lane when going straight on (as the 1st exit brings you up blood mill road towards childers rd shopping centre and the 2nd takes you to castletroy) and \i always get a little beep from those that "know Better". One of these days I'm going to stop the car (if beeped) in the middle of the round about and go back to yer man or woman and refresh their driving skills.

I'd be interested to know how people here approch this roundabout???

Why not use 'left' or 'right'?

It's much clearer when expalining a scenario.

Many drivers consider the 'left' lane to be the 'inside' lane'.

baza1976

Jumpy wrote: »

I hate to say it, but I would beep you too. The only use for the right lane is to turn off to City East or do a full turn of the roundabout.
The continuation of the Ballysimon road is dead straight. You would NOT use the right lane for exit onto this. You could cause a severe accident.The number of exits does not dictate the lane to use when traversing a roundabout.
There should really be markings for this road, but you have to be aware that 90% of the road users that traverse this roundabout do it the way I have just explained and not all pay a large amount of attention so by using the inside lane you could easily end up on the other side of the road when you are hit in the side of your vehicle by someone continuing straight.

Another thing to note, if you stop and exit your vehicle (or even stop and make gestures) because someone sounds their horn it is considered road rage, it will not prove anything to the person and will most likely get you charged.

Hi Jumpy,

I think you should check/reserch your information. I have! Unless marked/signed the first 2 exits you must use the left lane and the right lane is for everyother exit. If like you say there was an accident because i was in the right lane to go straight on to Tipp, I would not be in the wrong, I would not be charged.Whoever is in the left lane going straight might have egg on there face:D

baza1976

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Why not use 'left' or 'right'?

It's much clearer when expalining a scenario.

Many drivers consider the 'left' lane to be the 'inside' lane'.

Didn't know it was a grammer class:rolleyes:;)

Point taken

rosboy

The way it was explained to me (by a qualified driving instructor), was that if you're coming at the roundabout from a 6 o'clock position, you take the left lane. Anything after that you take the right lane. This is only really a rule of thumb though.

The problem is that roundabouts in Ireland aren't all the same, so you can't have one rule for them all. Take the Groody Roundabout just over the road. If coming out from town, there are three leading onto the roundabout:

1. Left for college (so many idiots take this for going straight)
2. Center for straight
3. Right for Tipp road or straight ahead.

There are again three lanes with the same arrangement coming from the Dublin side.

But coming from the Tipp road or the UL side you only have two lanes....so even one this single roundabout you have two rules for which lanes to use!

Or take the ring road that links the Cork road with the Dublin road. On the Cork side, there are only two exits off the roundabout (excluding the one you are entering from). On the Dublin side there are (or is it were?) three exits. No continuity.

And the whole thing isn't helped by people that just take the quickest lane to get they are going, regardless of everyone else (remark not directed at OP)

zuroph

left lane for anything less than 180 degrees, right lanes for anything greater, unless otherwise marked.

Mr E

zuroph wrote: »

left lane for anything less than 180 degrees, right lanes for anything greater, unless otherwise marked.

I'd agree with that, and thats what I'd do in practice (whether its right or wrong)

baza1976

rosboy wrote: »

The way it was explained to me (by a qualified driving instructor), was that if you're coming at the roundabout from a 6 o'clock position, you take the left lane. Anything after that you take the right lane. This is only really a rule of thumb though.

The problem is that roundabouts in Ireland aren't all the same, so you can't have one rule for them all. Take the Groody Roundabout just over the road. If coming out from town, there are three leading onto the roundabout:

1. Left for college (so many idiots take this for going straight)
2. Center for straight
3. Right for Tipp road or straight ahead.

There are again three lanes with the same arrangement coming from the Dublin side.


But coming from the Tipp road or the UL side you only have two lanes....so even one this single roundabout you have two rules for which lanes to use!

Or take the ring road that links the Cork road with the Dublin road. On the Cork side, there are only two exits off the roundabout (excluding the one you are entering from). On the Dublin side there are (or is it were?) three exits. No continuity.

And the whole thing isn't helped by people that just take the quickest lane to get they are going, regardless of everyone else (remark not directed at OP)

Hi Roseboy,

I think you'll find them roundabouts you mentioned are all marked on the road with BIG white white arrows. So your rule of tumb is in not action there.

rosboy

baza1976 wrote: »

Hi Roseboy,

I think you'll find them roundabouts you mentioned are all marked on the road with BIG white white arrows. So your rule of tumb is in action there.

It's actually ROSBOY. And I think you need to reread my post. In the rule of thumb I mentioned, there are two lanes leading into each round about. The roundabout at Groody has three lanes. The left lane ONLY allows left turns. The center lane ONLY allows straight through traffic. The right hand lane allows straight through AND right hand turns. None of those three lanes abide exacly by my rule of thumb exactly....as was my point about no consistency.

I really can't understand how people would beep a nice agreeable chap like you on the road.

baza1976

rosboy wrote: »

It's actually ROSBOY. And I think you need to reread my post. In the rule of thumb I mentioned, there are two lanes leading into each round about. The roundabout at Groody has three lanes. The left lane ONLY allows left turns. The center lane ONLY allows straight through traffic. The right hand lane allows straight through AND right hand turns. None of those three lanes abide exacly by my rule of thumb exactly....as was my point about no consistency.

I really can't understand how people would beep a nice agreeable chap like you on the road.

Sorry for getting your name wrong Rosboy,

I've read your post over and over and I still stand by what i said. The roundabout which you talk about is marked out for which lane to take so I don't know what your point is. If you read my very first post where i talk about which lane should be used I finish by saying something like if lanes are identified marked or sign posted the then the rule for "left lane is used to take the first 2 exits" is ignored. You then go on about roundabouts that are marked/signed

If you have a major issue with that roundabout maybe you should start your own thread. This thread is clearly about a different roundabout.

Liam Byrne

mud wrote: »

need to check this but my memory is that the right lane is clearly marked with a right turn arrow and no straight ahead one

Nope. I travel this 3 or 4 times a week. Coming down Mallow St the right-hand lane is clearly marked for straight ahead and right.

Liam Byrne

zuroph wrote: »

left lane for anything less than 180 degrees, right lanes for anything greater, unless otherwise marked.

Even muddier if you read this, because it doesn't cover the 180 degrees itself.

Left lane is for first two exits, unless there are (a) only 2 exits and/or (b) there are two lanes on the exit.

Jumpy

baza1976 wrote: »

Hi Jumpy,

I think you should check/reserch your information. I have! Unless marked/signed the first 2 exits you must use the left lane and the right lane is for everyother exit. If like you say there was an accident because i was in the right lane to go straight on to Tipp, I would not be in the wrong, I would not be charged.Whoever is in the left lane going straight might have egg on there face:D

Heres a trick. Pay very close attention to what the majority of traffic is doing.
Pop down there for an hour or so. Report back with the findings.


waits...


I already know what the answer will be, but feel free to be the odd one that thinks he is doing it correctly.

ninty9er

baza1976 wrote: »

Hi,
When using the above roundabout heading from childers rd towards tipp town direction it drives me mad that everyone bar the odd exception uses the wrong exit.
As far as I'm aware and I don't think the rule book has changed, for the first 2 exits you must use the outside lane at this roundabout for the other exits use the inside lane unless signs say otherwise.
So I always use the inside lane when going straight on (as the 1st exit brings you up blood mill road towards childers rd shopping centre and the 2nd takes you to castletroy) and \i always get a little beep from those that "know Better". One of these days I'm going to stop the car (if beeped) in the middle of the round about and go back to yer man or woman and refresh their driving skills.

I'd be interested to know how people here approch this roundabout???

You're right, "those who know better" are wrong. A friend's brother was marked down on his driving test for using the left lane to go towards the new "Ballysimon Junction"

zuroph

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Even muddier if you read this, because it doesn't cover the 180 degrees itself.

Left lane is for first two exits, unless there are (a) only 2 exits and/or (b) there are two lanes on the exit.

my apologies, left is for up to AND INCLUDING 180 degrees. this is fact as given to me by both my driving instructor and ignition test instructor and examiner, therefore the rule used by insurance comapnies in ireland. unless, of course, otherwise marked. new ballysimon road is actually just passed 180 degrees, so OP is correct. The confusion arose from the fact that the roundabout was in operation before the groody road opened.

Wetbench4

I too was thought that way zuroph, Works for me.

Jumpy

zuroph wrote: »

new ballysimon road is actually just passed 180 degrees, so OP is correct.

Actually, that was in my head as well, coming from the the limerick side it seems past the 180 degree mark. But it actually isnt.

zuroph

Jumpy wrote: »

Actually, that was in my head as well, coming from the the limerick side it seems past the 180 degree mark. But it actually isnt.

in which case, well done on solid evidence, OP is wrong. The "first two exits" mis-information has floated around for years, and really annoys me.

A simple way of solving any confusion, would be coloured lines being applied to the roundabout direction signs, that way, the driver can figure out what lane they should be in for what exit.
(crude) example:

Liam Byrne

Jumpy wrote: »

Heres a trick. Pay very close attention to what the majority of traffic is doing.
Pop down there for an hour or so. Report back with the findings.

OK. Head out the N18 towards Ennis and note the speed of what "the majority of traffic is doing"; then compare that to the actual speed limit.

Just because lots of people do it wrong doesn't make it right.

Likewise, have a gander at the junction of O'Connell St and Mallow St, where the continuous white line means you should turn and then change lanes halfway down, and NOT cross lanes as you turn. Most people will cross - still doesn't make it right

I already know what the answer will be, but feel free to be the odd one that thinks he is doing it correctly.

He is.

Jumpy

Liam Byrne wrote: »

OK. Head out the N18 towards Ennis and note the speed of what "the majority of traffic is doing"; then compare that to the actual speed limit.

Just because lots of people do it wrong doesn't make it right.

Likewise, have a gander at the junction of O'Connell St and Mallow St, where the continuous white line means you should turn and then change lanes halfway down, and NOT cross lanes as you turn. Most people will cross - still doesn't make it right



He is.

I have just provided a satellite photo of the road in question and you still argue the point?
The number of roundabout exits does not determine the lane used. Unless there is some bizarre irish law that states it.

You would love the Arc de Triomphe.

Secondly the reason why they do that on the mallow st junction in heavy traffic is because if they do not they will be forced onto Henry st by the queue of vehicles, you are right, not the way it should be done, but unless there are traffic lights placed on the jurys roundabout then there is no way out of it.
You cannot get traffic freeflow when obstructed by a roundabout.
Especially one that has a road of lesser import on the right and a road of equal import feeding from the other side. Traffic gaps are not left for vehicles to feed into. Therefore leading to traffic backup on Lower (and often Upper) Mallow st.
This is more of an annoyance than an actual danger, taking a sideswipe from a car leaving the City East/Ballysimon Rd roundabout and being forced into oncoming traffic could kill you and therefore it would be wise to follow the majority of drivers regardless of what you believe is right (by the way if you can provide proof that the "beyond second exit" rule is law, then I will happily accept it).

Also, in regards to the N18 comment, it is one of the most heavily policed roads I have come across around Limerick, anyone speeding there is insane.

Liam Byrne

Jumpy wrote: »

I have just provided a satellite photo of the road in question and you still argue the point?

The satellite photo only applies if you believe the "12-o-clock rule", so it's not relevant if the rule in question is "first two exits / third and subsequent exits".

You would love the Arc de Triomphe.

Been there. Completely different rules, considering that traffic COMING ONTO the roundabout has right-of-way.

Secondly the reason why they do that on the mallow st junction in heavy traffic is because if they do not they will be forced onto Henry st by the queue of vehicles, you are right, not the way it should be done

That's irrelevant; there is a broken line for 3-quarters of the stretch and there is no excuse for crossing the continuous white line at the top or the bottom of the stretch. Yes, it is a poorly-thought-out design, but the same happens at the top of William St, where there is PLENTY of space to do it correctly.

My point was that just because loads of people do it wrong doesn't make it right.

This is more of an annoyance than an actual danger, taking a sideswipe from a car leaving the City East/Ballysimon Rd roundabout and being forced into oncoming traffic could kill you and therefore it would be wise to follow the majority of drivers regardless of what you believe is right

You are NEVER meant to cut across a car on your left when turning left (which you would be doing); this applies to dual-carraigeways, street lanes, etc. So if you're on the right and there's a car on your left, then you can't cut across it. So "being forced" onto oncoming traffic is not the correct way to phrase the issue, since it implies that the car on the left is in the wrong, which it isn't; it's comparable to someone "being forced" into oncoming traffic if they're overtaking inappropriately.....yes, if someone does it to you, you should drive to avoid an accident (even if it would be caused by their stupidity) but they shouldn't have put you in that position anyway - it's THEIR fault! No-one "forced" them to overtake

by the way if you can provide proof that the "beyond second exit" rule is law, then I will happily accept it.

Well, there are lots of examples that show the standard 9, 12, 3 & 6 o'clock layouts, which are not in dispute since both rules coincide (1st & 2nd exit - left lane; 3rd & 4th - right lane) so I had to do a few searches to get these. But here you go:

http://www.lireland.com/theory/roundabouts.htm

http://www.pan-europe.utvinternet.ie/local/ireland/rules_of_the_road.htm (see halfway down)

Also, in regards to the N18 comment, it is one of the most heavily policed roads I have come across around Limerick, anyone speeding there is insane.

Limit is 62.5 mph and people regularly do 70, and even flash you from behind if you're overtaking at around 65. Again, my point was that just because "most people do it" doesn't make it right.

Liam Byrne

P.S. Even though I don't subscribe to the 180 degree theory (for the reasons and links given above) even that doesn't hold water:

Jumpy

Only thing I could find was a link to a picture taken from the Northern Ireland highway code. It was the only document to clearly picture a multi exit roundabout.
I have seen entries written by other drivers on other sites about 12Oclock vs 2nd Exit and they have got no further in discovering the actual law than we are right now. Up to and including contacting government officials. Personally I am now beginning to think that there has not been anything has been officially written to cover it in the Republic.


http://www.monkschoolofmotoring.co.uk/info%20sheets/12%20O%27Clock%20Roundabouts.pdf

Liam Byrne

Jumpy wrote: »

Only thing I could find was a link to a picture taken from the Northern Ireland highway code.

Are you're discounting the two links that I posted above, then ? The ones that explicitly say "taking the first exit", "taking the second exit" and "taking subsequent exits" ?

One of those is from a driving school; also, ninty9er posted above that a driving tester marked down a learner for not using that rule.

Also, re:

The number of roundabout exits does not determine the lane used.

Can you let me know what way lanes you would use coming through the Old Cork Road roundabout from either Roxboro or Ballysimon directions ?

Blunder

I must admit its not something that I've every really thought about and I probably use the left hand lane to go straight on. I probably should use the Right hand land to go straight on. What lane would people use coming towards town from Tipperary if they wanted to go up the Bloodmill road?

Liam Byrne

That's the 3rd exit, and it's ALSO past "12 o'clock", so there's no argument there - it's the right-hand lane....