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Redc poll in the Sunday Business Post - 25/10/2008

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    #32
    Trotter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,362 ✭✭✭Trotter


    This is going to sound like a very strange comment, but, does this whole farce show that democracy doesn't actually work very well in Ireland?

    I am committed to every person having a vote, but having said that, am I mistaken to think that our democratic system works?

    FF have shaken my core democratric beliefs by literally giving two fingers to the Irish public fingers for the reasons mentioned throughout this thread, and then being revoted into government.

    I was in the count centre when the FF TDs were deemed elected and the comments I heard from the FF "huddle" were shocking. It was arrogance that went well beyond the deserved celebrations for any elected TD.

    I just despair that these people were re-elected. The masses are then surprised that they cut funds to the old and school children, as if FF didn't try this before. (e.g. Charlie's speech to the nation while his shirts were en route from Paris).

    To go back to my original question then, am I right to believe that if a general election was called tomorrow, FF would get back in to government?

    I'm not suggesting that democracy is wrong, just a bit frustrated at how it hasn't done much for those that really needed it over the past years.


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    #33
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    cooperguy wrote: »
    Besides how many people really think Enda Kenny would make a better leader.


    In fairness every party was spinning nonsense. That was not unique to FF


    This is typical FF bull.

    When the sh!t hits the fan you blame someone else or say "shur they're all the same".

    Finding someone else to blame for your very obvious failings is classic FF. Trouble is most idiots in this country let them away with it time and time again, and always at general elections, which is the time to give them the kicking they deserve.
    Trotter wrote: »
    To go back to my original question then, am I right to believe that if a general election was called tomorrow, FF would get back in to government?

    I genuinely think they would. People always "forget" about the things they've had reason to moan about whenever the election forgets and give FF a general act of absolution. Remember that about one third of the voting population would give FF the vote if the only candidates were mass murderers.

    As someone once said to me "the pen would shake in their hand"(at the ballot box) before a lot of people would vote for anyone other than FF.


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    #34
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    Trotter wrote: »
    This is going to sound like a very strange comment, but, does this whole farce show that democracy doesn't actually work very well in Ireland?

    I am committed to every person having a vote, but having said that, am I mistaken to think that our democratic system works?

    The system works grand. In fairness to these people, we have to give them the time and space that they will obviously require to come to terms with the fact that they have been conned and sold a pup by FF.

    You see all them property centered loo-laa's who voted in FF, and also Michael Lowry, Jackie Healy-Rae, Ivor Callely, Beverly Cooper Flynn, Martin Cullen, Mary Harney, Noel Demsey, Noel O' Flynn, et al...

    The people who voted in these clowns, above all else, they are fickle. When their needs are being met, they are grand, they'll vote for the vested interests and will effectively vote for greed, and so the corruption goes on, but as I said, they are fickle, and when the chips are down, they'll change their vote...

    Make no mistake about it, Dopey Breakfast Role Man is running the country...


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    #35
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    Trotter wrote: »
    -
    I just despair that these people were re-elected. The masses are then surprised that they cut funds to the old and school children, as if FF didn't try this before. (e.g. Charlie's speech to the nation while his shirts were en route from Paris).

    To go back to my original question then, am I right to believe that if a general election was called tomorrow, FF would get back in to government?

    If there was an election in the morning, I wouldn't vote for FF.

    I also wouldn't vote for FG or Labour, because they do not have an effective leader. Eamon Gilmore, USELESS, Enda kenny, USELESS. Not getting my vote, end of story, come back when you have a leader that my gut feeling can have a discussion with....

    It took me a few short years to learn to stand on my feet and stop voting in line with my family....

    I have no political affiliation with any party, but I do see a leader in Richard Bruton. I've never ever voted once for FG or Labour, but I would vote for FG if they got rid of Enda Kenny and Richard bruton was party leader... As for Labour, rudderless and leaderless, led by a smug fat c*nt that that whole country can see through. Irrelevant as a political force. My 2 cents worth, FG will be the majority party in the next government, if they can change leadership and up their game...


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    #36
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    I can see that a lot of people think that FF would be hammered on the property market, yet fail to remember that those who bought overpriced houses with 100% mortgages are in an extreme minority of the voting population. If it was the case that even 100,000 people had mortgages in excess of €300,000 that they couldn't afford, we wouldn't have seen it past 2002, never mind the ream of subsequent elections that would have followed.

    Media "bad govenrment will lose out" myths that mean nothing to the majority of voters in the polling booth:

    • Negative equity
    • Larger class sizes
    • Inflation
    • Interest rates
    • The weather
    • The colour of Enda Kenny's hair

    the thing that matters most in the booth is:
    • Who listened to me on the doorstep
    Refined to
    • Which of them got back to me
    And if there are any left after that
    • Which ones did so most satisfactorily


    Edit:

    I am biased, but I do honestly believe that Brian Cowen will be twice the leader Bertie Ahern ever was. He's not as focussed on his possy and is much more concerned with the views of the organisation, decisions will be taken on the basis that they are necessary rather than continuing unsustainably due to fear of unpopularity. This is why I'm struggling to come to grips with the levy and Med Card U-turn....though the card had to come, I can't understand why the limit is so high.

    To say FF believed that people would just vote for Lisbon is diametrically opposed to the fact that Biffo spent weeks touring the country with the "Yes Bus" and a group of HQ staff and Ógra to campaign with him.


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    #37
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    ninty9er wrote: »
    I can see that a lot of people think that FF would be hammered on the property market, yet fail to remember that those who bought overpriced houses with 100% mortgages are in an extreme minority of the voting population. If it was the case that even 100,000 people had mortgages in excess of €300,000 that they couldn't afford, we wouldn't have seen it past 2002, never mind the ream of subsequent elections that would have followed.

    Media "bad govenrment will lose out" myths that mean nothing to the majority of voters in the polling booth:

    • Negative equity
    • Larger class sizes
    • Inflation
    • Interest rates
    • The weather
    • The colour of Enda Kenny's hair

    the thing that matters most in the booth is:
    • Who listened to me on the doorstep
    Refined to
    • Which of them got back to me
    And if there are any left after that
    • Which ones did so most satisfactorily


    Edit:

    I am biased, but I do honestly believe that Brian Cowen will be twice the leader Bertie Ahern ever was. He's not as focussed on his possy and is much more concerned with the views of the organisation, decisions will be taken on the basis that they are necessary rather than continuing unsustainably due to fear of unpopularity. This is why I'm struggling to come to grips with the levy and Med Card U-turn....though the card had to come, I can't understand why the limit is so high.

    To say FF believed that people would just vote for Lisbon is diametrically opposed to the fact that Biffo spent weeks touring the country with the "Yes Bus" and a group of HQ staff and Ógra to campaign with him.

    I don't agree ninty9er...

    I voted not for what made me better off, but what for made the country that I was born in, a better place to live in for those that live here.

    I've read your thread above over ten times and I cannot understand the logic of your position. You are defending people who in my opinion are below the level of contempt that I reserve for paedophiles. You blame people who have taken out 100% mortages that you allege they could not afford, for the current economic situation. I have many friends who have a 100% mortgage, they are not in default of their mortgage agreements, but they have fu*k all cash for anything else, hence why we are now in recession.

    The party that you are trying to defend on this thead, have been elected directly with the support of the monetary contributions made by vested property interests in the building industry, it has been a win-win equation, up until now....

    What is around the corner for FF, hell at it's worst hasn't seen the likes of it before....


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    #38
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    ninty9er wrote: »
    I am biased, but I do honestly believe that Brian Cowen will be twice the leader Bertie Ahern ever was.

    You must be on the magic mushrooms if you think an overgrown fu*king walking MATRESS is the answer to our problems.

    This the man who was responsible for fiscal decisions for the last 6-7 years. Are you on drugs???


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    #39
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    You blame people who have taken out 100% mortages that you allege they could not afford, for the current economic situation. I have many friends who have a 100% mortgage, they are not in default of their mortgage agreements, but they have fu*k all cash for anything else, hence why we are now in recession.

    I didn't blame people with 100% mortgages anywhere in that post, for anything.

    I didn't mention default, I didn't mention cash (I meant to but forgot actually)

    In fact, I just gave an indication of how the majority of people would vote given a general election.

    So please stop pulling crap from my post that isn't actually there.


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    #40
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    You must be on the magic mushrooms if you think an overgrown fu*king walking MATRESS is the answer to our problems.

    This the man who was responsible for fiscal decisions for the last 6-7 years. Are you on drugs???


    I'm not...are you....because neither Charlie Cowen or Brian McCreevy are in charge or the country right now.....Brian Cowen is:rolleyes:


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    #41
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    ninty9er wrote: »
    I'm not...are you....because neither Charlie Cowen or Brian McCreevy are in charge or the country right now.....Brian Cowen is:rolleyes:

    Yes Biffo is the man with the remote control, and he is a walking fu*king haystack that was annointed into the job by a man who we now know was a discredited corrupt smooth talking LANGER, who was taking tens of thousands of Euro in CASH payments from people who had vested property/business interests.

    If you ever have a Revenue audit, try telling them that you didn't have a bank account and that you dealt in cash and you took tens of thousands of euro from people who cannot now be accounted for, who just happened to have property interests. Revenue will hand you a tube of KY jelly and tell you to brace yourself, because they are just about to put a fu*kin saddle on you...

    Your political naiviety is beyond the English language...


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    #42
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Guys, keep it civil and please don't direct personal comments at each other about what drugs they may or may not be taking before posting.

    Also, posting crap like "the idiots will vote them in again" isn't allowed. Just because you don't agree with other people's political opinions does not mean that you get to call them idiots.


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    #43
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    The poll is, um, unsurprising? FF made a balls up of the budget, they were always going to be hammered in the polls last week. The thing is, it's the trend over the next three to six months that's going to be important. FF will turn this around a bit and gain back some of that lost ground but the question is how much and can FG/Lab consolidate their present gains into a longer trend than just the impulse lashing against the sitting Government after an unpopular budget.

    It's also a single poll, even though the result isn't that surprising given the political climate but it'll be other polls with different methodologies that'll allow a better reading of the situation to be taken.


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    #44
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Your political naiviety is beyond the English language...
    How many doors did YOU knock on before the election??

    And how many since???


    **silence**

    Thought so.


    Idealistic I may be, but I can assure you: I'f FAAAR from naïve.


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    #45
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    nesf wrote: »
    The poll is, um, unsurprising? FF made a balls up of the budget, they were always going to be hammered in the polls last week. The thing is, it's the trend over the next three to six months that's going to be important. FF will turn this around a bit and gain back some of that lost ground but the question is how much and can FG/Lab consolidate their present gains into a longer trend than just the impulse lashing against the sitting Government after an unpopular budget.

    It's also a single poll, even though the result isn't that surprising given the political climate but it'll be other polls with different methodologies that'll allow a better reading of the situation to be taken.

    If the opposition can bring decent credible political weight to bear on this current set up, then FF are dead as a political party. FF have nothing to offer the country, none of their front bench have any standing. Mary Coughlan is to economic progress, what George W Bush is to peace keeping. Willie O' Dea should be left on Question & Answers until someone fu*ks him out of a 4 story window of RTE.

    Biffo, keep feeding him Fillet Steaks.

    Martin Cullen.. I hear Robert mugabe is setting up a top level commitee to advise him on e-voting technology, there's a job for Martin Cullen....

    Noel Dempsey... Maybe when Shell have taken the gas out of the Corrib gas field, they can inject Noel Dempsey back in there to fill the void and if they find there is a lot of room left, I'm sure Mary Harney would take up the rest of the vacant space...


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    #46
    Voipjunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Voipjunkie


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    If the opposition can bring decent credible political weight to bear on this current set up, then FF are dead as a political party. FF have nothing to offer the country, none of their front bench have any standing. Mary Coughlan is to economic progress, what George W Bush is to peace keeping. Willie O' Dea should be left on Question & Answers until someone fu*ks him out of a 4 story window of RTE.

    Biffo, keep feeding him Fillet Steaks.

    Martin Cullen.. I hear Robert mugabe is setting up a top level commitee to advise him on e-voting technology, there's a job for Martin Cullen....

    Noel Dempsey... Maybe when Shell have taken the gas out of the Corrib gas field, they can inject Noel Dempsey back in there to fill the void and if they find there is a lot of room left, I'm sure Mary Harney would take up the rest of the vacant space...

    Ok meanwhile back in the real world

    There won't be an election as FF will stick together ( as they know alot of them would not be back if an election happened now) and the greens will stay as well and the last thing the independents want is an election.

    FF will undoubtedly creep back up in the polls and this will be forgotten about by the time the next election comes around.


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    #47
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    Ok meanwhile back in the real world

    There won't be an election as FF will stick together

    Doesn't look there is much cohesion lately within FF. All the opposition need to do is smoke out the current incumbents who have honour in my book than Garry Glitter, and offer a decent alternative...


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    #48
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    If the opposition can bring decent credible political weight to bear on this current set up, then FF are dead as a political party. FF have nothing to offer the country, none of their front bench have any standing. Mary Coughlan is to economic progress, what George W Bush is to peace keeping. Willie O' Dea should be left on Question & Answers until someone fu*ks him out of a 4 story window of RTE.

    Biffo, keep feeding him Fillet Steaks.

    Martin Cullen.. I hear Robert mugabe is setting up a top level commitee to advise him on e-voting technology, there's a job for Martin Cullen....

    Noel Dempsey... Maybe when Shell have taken the gas out of the Corrib gas field, they can inject Noel Dempsey back in there to fill the void and if they find there is a lot of room left, I'm sure Mary Harney would take up the rest of the vacant space...

    So much heat, so little light.


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    #49
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    I wouldn't send Mary Coughlan for a bag of chips or a pint of milk.

    The people you suggest should continue to run our country, make John Gilligan look like Nelson Mandela...


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    #50
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    I wouldn't send Mary Coughlan for a bag of chips or a pint of milk.

    The people you suggest should continue to run our country, make John Gilligan look like Nelson Mandela...

    I wasn't aware they had Halloween parties in the Joy, or that the Cabinet does the make-up.

    :D:D


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    #51
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    nesf wrote: »
    So much heat, so little light.

    Because when you look at "Twat O' Thief" or "Willie O' Gee", you see the light. Will you take your shades off and do the rest of the country a favour and allow us get rid of these fu*king circus acts...


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    #52
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Because when you look at "Twat O' Thief" or "Willie O' Gee", you see the light. Will you take your shades off and do the rest of the country a favour and allow us get rid of these fu*king circus acts...

    I'll be sure to take your carefully worded and reasoned points into consideration next time I go into the voting booth.


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    #53
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    nesf wrote: »
    I'll be sure to take your carefully worded and reasoned points into consideration next time I go into the voting booth.

    :D:D


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    #54
    DMC
    Registered Users Posts: 10,726 ✭✭✭✭DMC


    Am I right in thinking this poll is just on the political parties? No satisfaction ratings of the party leaders alongside this poll?


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    #55
    Fuascailt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 268 ✭✭Fuascailt


    DMC wrote: »
    Am I right in thinking this poll is just on the political parties? No satisfaction ratings of the party leaders alongside this poll?

    No, there wasn't. It would have been interesting to see if Enda would have gotten a bounce, or has the increase mainly been generated by Bruton.


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    #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    I voted not for what made me better off, but what for made the country that I was born in, a better place to live in for those that live here.

    ..
    That would make you a unique and selfless person.
    A rarity in the modern world.

    A perfect candidate for to join something like the monks of Glenstall Abbey doing good works and praying for the rest of us...
    I would urge you to do so before we all enter eternal damnation.
    I'm too selfish to do that myself..I'll vote for to keep my pocket safe but I'm glad theres hope now..


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    #57
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    A little OT. Dermot Ahern on The Week In Politics tonight on RTE1 @23.05. No doubt this poll will come up for mention in it.


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    #58
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users Posts: 9,557 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    Donnaghm wrote: »
    Which would give FG and Lab a comfortable majority in the event of an election. No need for the pesky tree huggers either.
    No surprise, the country is in ABFF mode right now. People are being delusional if they think an FG/LAB coalition could do any better - VAT on childrens' clothes anyone?

    The wider problem is that we lack political capital in this country.


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