Czech Wolfdog

sypher

Hello there,
been searching the net but really no info on where to find this breed ...

Im about to come into ireland and would like this kind of dog, anybody knows of any breeder (possibly around Cork) for this breed?

Eventually, the usual price?

Thanks in advance!

kerrysgold

Weird, I was only reading about this breed last night and was thinking if there were any in Ireland!

Anyway, can't help you with a breeder but I'd say they aren't a beginners dog. I imagine they need a lot of training and socializing, perhaps more so than other breeds.

I apologize if this isn't the case with you, but it's just that a lot of people like the Wolfy appearance of such dogs but they don't fully understand the amount of care and time they need.

sypher

kerrysgold wrote: »

Weird, I was only reading about this breed last night and was thinking if there were any in Ireland!

Anyway, can't help you with a breeder but I'd say they aren't a beginners dog. I imagine they need a lot of training and socializing, perhaps more so than other breeds.

I apologize if this isn't the case with you, but it's just that a lot of people like the Wolfy appearance of such dogs but they don't fully understand the amount of care and time they need.

You are totally right, and yes, i am a beginner.
But i'm not choosing this breed for the Wolfy style, (there's others that have that and are less hard to manage) but more for the behaviour of it ... I have read a lot lately, and while the general style of the dog of course drives me crazy, its not what made me decide upon this. And im reading *a lot* before taking it, so i guess im ready to try and live with him. If i couldnt get this one, i'd have to fall back on some choices that im not really sure of, and in that case, i'd better leave it all since it will be a choice that affects my life for the next 15 years or so ...

As of now i would have no problem in buying it here in Italy, the only problem is the damn import laws, and it seems like that, with a puppy, i cant avoid the 6 months quarantine. i mean ... WTF? ... so, either i find a breeder there or i will need to take a 8-9 months old one ...

If you happen to find any info on this breed there in ireland, tell me because im very very interested!

Thanks in advance.

peasant

I seriously doubt that there is a breeder here in Ireland.

Another thing to keep in mind is that moving country, house, job, etc isn't exactly a simple operation. A dog would only be in the way / an additional worry.

I suggest waiting a few months until you have settled here before you get any dog, especially as it is going to be your first one.

sypher

peasant wrote: »

I seriously doubt that there is a breeder here in Ireland.

Another thing to keep in mind is that moving country, house, job, etc isn't exactly a simple operation. A dog would only be in the way / an additional worry.

I suggest waiting a few months until you have settled here before you get any dog, especially as it is going to be your first one.

Problem is, if there's no breeder, then i need to import it ... And thats a thing that i'd like to do while moving, not after, for a series of reasons ...

kerrysgold

I think you'd be better off with a more easy to manage breed if this is your first dog. Maybe a german shepherd? They still have the wolfy looks, very intelligent breed but are easier to train and look after.

sypher

kerrysgold wrote: »

I think you'd be better off with a more easy to manage breed if this is your first dog. Maybe a german shepherd? They still have the wolfy looks, very intelligent breed but are easier to train and look after.

I'm after this dog for the behaviour and attachment to the master, that is, as far as i know, unique.

Can we go back in topic please? Any breeders out there?

kerrysgold

Don't you think it's kinda silly to want a particular dog just because it's a loyal breed?

Have you ever owned a dog before? well, any dog, if you treat it properly and let it know your it's boss so there is no trouble, it will "like" you/be loyal/attached whatever you want to call it.

anyway, I think they are still quite a rare breed, they are also quite a new breed, only about 30 yrs old I think? so it's hard to find a breeder I imagine. I googled it anyway and the closest I found was some breeder in the Shetland isles I think, and wouldn't touch them with a bargepole as they seem to advocate keeping/breeding wolf hybrids as pets. :rolleyes: the price though seems to be £600 - £800.

lightening

sypher wrote: »

I'm after this dog for the behaviour and attachment to the master, that is, as far as i know, unique.

You know this can be a pain in the ass for you both you and dog? Holidays, weekends away, going to work... all pretty anxious times for a dog of this disposition. I would imagine you would have to be at home all week.

From what I can gather they are a hunting dog that would be evolved to be with its owner almost 24 hours a day. I hope you have lots and lots and lots of experience and even more spare time to devote to a difficult dog to own!

sypher

I've read about this breed a lot, and know people that do have them, and none of them is 24 hours with the dog.

Like 90% of the people in the world, they work 8 hours a day, and have their stuff going, and the dog is perfectly fine with this ...

Anyway, ok then, im an assassin and i want this dog to kill it and take it apart, allrite?

Lets just stop talking about the reasons that im after this particoular breed, and lets focus on the topic, that is, if anybody knows if theres any breeder out there.

I got to breeders here and people that have it, and talked to them a bit much more than what im talking to you guys here, and they told me they deem me suitable for this breed (altough the breeder wouldnt entrust me with a male dog, only a female).

That is, for me, enough to have my go ahead, now my problem is importing it into ireland, not wether to take it or not ... I feel i can handle and respect it, and from what i've read, this is the one i want. Its not like you guys are going to convince me into getting a chiwawa, its either that or nothing.

Dont tell me you guys bought a dog for what your lifestyle was without liking it, i wouldnt believe that.

Buying it without having the time and care to handle it would be bad, but since im suitable (as it seems), lets just drop this ...

peasant

sypher wrote: »

...since im suitable (as it seems), lets just drop this ...

Leaving aside the discussion whether a wolfdog is for you or not, the fact still is that you have been deemed "suitable" in your CURRENT circumstances.

But you are about to move country, house and job and with all due respect, you don't know what your circumstances will be like when you arrive here.

Where will you live? How much time will you have for the dog? How much room will you have for the dog etc, etc ...

I still think that it would be far better to get yourself firmly settled first before you think about getting a dog ...whatever dog that may be.

sypher

peasant wrote: »

Leaving aside the discussion whether a wolfdog is for you or not, the fact still is that you have been deemed "suitable" in your CURRENT circumstances.

Nope, im my CURRENT circumstances im not.
After i've moved country, i will.

And i know the answers to the other questions you've previously posed, so the discussion is a bit different than what you may think

bigpinkelephant

OP, I think you should listen to the other posters here because I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about.

So a breeder said you are suitable for a dog. Has it occurred to you that the breeder may have been trying to make a future sale? There are a LOT of dodgy breeders.

lightening

sypher wrote: »

I got to breeders here and people that have it, and talked to them a bit much more than what im talking to you guys here, and they told me they deem me suitable for this breed (altough the breeder wouldnt entrust me with a male dog, only a female).

€€€

sypher wrote: »

Dont tell me you guys bought a dog for what your lifestyle was without liking it, i wouldnt believe that.

My lifestyle doesn't really suit the dog. Between myself and my wife he is left three days on his own for 8 hours a day. Not good for the dog at all. We try our best with the dog and spend a lot of time, effort and money trying to get it right. Five days a week would be impossible on the dog. Sorry for going on at you, just don't want you being miserable, a dog being miserable and destructive cause you think they look and act cool.

sypher

lightening wrote: »

My lifestyle doesn't really suit the dog.

Oh my god! then you shouldnt possess a dog at all!
What is he doing in ur house still ?
Why not giving it up to a family that got nothing else to do than following him around and taking care of it everyday?

You're such a lowly guy, having a dog in those conditions! ...

I'm sarcastic. Just trying to make you understand what my point is, but seems like this thread has been hijacked already.

Its all like the old argument about pure breed or getting one from a kennel ... neverending. Its a matter of choices, really.

lightening

sypher wrote: »

Oh my god! then you shouldnt possess a dog at all!
What is he doing in ur house still ?
Why not giving it up to a family that got nothing else to do than following him around and taking care of it everyday?

You're such a lowly guy, having a dog in those conditions! ...

I'm sarcastic.

Ok... I would like to give him the best life I can, he has hip dysplacia and I wouldn't burden him on anyone with the bills and the certain type of exercise he needs. I have a fantastic person in the neighbourhood that looks after the dog when I am away (at a price of course, she is a professional) I am up at 7.30 every day to walk and run him before work and my wife is home at 5.30 on the three days she works to walk him in the evening.

Your comment about being in a family that have nothing to do but take care of him is silly, I know you are being sarcastic but a dog in a house with someone home all day is a different dog than one that is left alone all day.

Talk to any expert.

Even though I am prepared to do all this I would think long and hard about getting a dog when he goes. I would never ever ever get another thoroughbred dog bred for the show, I would probably get an older unwanted and somewhat tired greyhound type.

sypher

lightening wrote: »

Ok... I would like to give him the best life I can, he has hip dysplacia and I wouldn't burden him on anyone with the bills and the certain type of exercise he needs. I have a fantastic person in the neighbourhood that looks after the dog when I am away (at a price of course, she is a professional) I am up at 7.30 every day to walk and run him before work and my wife is home at 5.30 on the three days she works to walk him in the evening.

Your comment about being in a family that have nothing to do but take care of him is silly, I know you are being sarcastic but a dog in a house with someone home all day is a different dog than one that is left alone all day.

Talk to any expert.

Even though I am prepared to do all this I would think long and hard about getting a dog when he goes. I would never ever ever get another thoroughbred dog bred for the show, I would probably get an older unwanted and somewhat tired greyhound type.

I dont really want to meddle in your life, everybody has problems and everybody has his own, i just want to make you realize that the situation that i will be in is exactly the same situation as most of the other people are in, and some, yeah trust me, are getting a DOG. You did that too.

I know and understand that a dog that is being looked after 24 hours a day is different than one that is being looked after only 16; but is it that bad? Its the common situation of around 90% of the people out there. And you still bash it on their face.

Now, lately the replies in this thread have been something like "Oh my god having a dog is difficult and you should get it, especially not that one!".

Seems like elitist answers to me.

You sound like a nice owner, but still, from your own talks, you're in a situation that, from your own words, you shouldnt be able to keep a dog.

Maybe there's someone else out there good like you that would like to take him in, maybe someone that dosnt need to work. Why not finding it out? ...

A dog, like a real friend, is give and take, and i can understand why you wouldnt want to give him away, even after all this talk.

Yet, all your replies have been harsh and elitist, i just asked for a breeder type and i have been tried to be psychanalized, turned away, and discouraged, from people that probably didnt even read 10% of what i've read of this breed.
Nevermind, i'll just do some calls around veterinarians to ask if they know of some breeders, sure its a quicker way than keeping on getting flamed here.

lightening

sypher wrote: »

all your replies have been harsh and elitist

Rubbish, I don't even know what type of facilities you have in place for the dog, or what facilities you have in your area... I asked nothing much about your situation, I just told you about the pitfalls I have fallen in to and how I got around them. Please, don't dismiss the advice and my experiences as being to harsh for you, take them on board. Elitist? You are the one asking for the certain type of dog, not me.

Regarding the give and take thing? Life isn't a Lassie film.

Anyway, you seem determined to import the dog in to the country because of its looks and perceived values. I wish you the best of luck with the dog and hope it works out for both of you.

sypher

lightening wrote: »

Rubbish, I don't even know what type of facilities you have in place for the dog, or what facilities you have in your area... I asked nothing much about your situation, I just told you about the pitfalls I have fallen in to and how I got around them. Please, don't dismiss the advice and my experiences as being to harsh for you, take them on board.

You're right, i read again your replies and you're one guy that only gave advices. I owe you an apology, i got offroad by the previous replies...

lightening wrote: »

Elitist? You are the one asking for the certain type of dog, not me.

That aint being elitist imho, its being picky Seriously, we all have different tastes, and this is just an example of it.

lightening wrote: »

Regarding the give and take thing? Life isn't a Lassie film.

Its not, but isnt that what it is ? He gives you company, you give him a home.

lightening wrote: »

Anyway, you seem determined to import the dog in to the country because of its looks and perceived values.

Looks dosnt matter all that much (altough they played their part), perceived values its what got me on this dog. Hope they will be what i expect, thats all i can do for now.

lightening wrote: »

I wish you the best of luck with the dog and hope it works out for both of you.

Thanks there!

kerrysgold

I'm sure the breeder had entirely welfare based reasons for saying you were a match for the dog. :rolleyes: that's like going to a car sales room and expecting the car sales man to be honest about whether the car would suit you or not! they don't care, all they care about is the money. It's quite rare to find a breeder who only cares about the dogs and not the money.

As others have said, this is a working breed, moreso than other working breeds. It's bad enough for a real pet type dog being left alone 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, so I imagine it would be a complete disaster leaving a dog bred to work all day sitting in a house or kennel all day.

This reminds me of the current trend of everybody wanting a siberian husky or malamute, they are becoming too common in this country because people buy them without having a clue how different they are to other dogs.

why exactly do you want a czech wolfdog anyway? what's wrong with having any dog as a pet? perhaps a more docile dog that would be happier with your working arrangement?

no matter what dog you get, you really need to employ somebody to come in during the middle of the day to take him out, it's cruel to leave a dog alone for 8 hours especially as they need to go outside every four hours at least.

sypher

kerrysgold wrote: »

I'm sure the breeder had entirely welfare based reasons for saying you were a match for the dog. :rolleyes: that's like going to a car sales room and expecting the car sales man to be honest about whether the car would suit you or not! they don't care, all they care about is the money. It's quite rare to find a breeder who only cares about the dogs and not the money.

Yeah, i tought so too ... Altough, the fact that he actually asked me what i was going to do with the dog, why was i taking it, where would i keep it and what were my habits made me think again ...

And after the interrogation (maybe just for show?) he refused to sell me anything male. So yeah.... dont really know. But i know this breeder is well respected here (my and other guys words), and he got customers from all around the world (his words).

kerrysgold wrote: »

As others have said, this is a working breed, moreso than other working breeds. It's bad enough for a real pet type dog being left alone 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, so I imagine it would be a complete disaster leaving a dog bred to work all day sitting in a house or kennel all day.

He (and others) said it wouldnt be much of a problem ... Dont know who to believe, but still in my intention there's a house with a garden where he can have free access. Will look into it ...

kerrysgold wrote: »

This reminds me of the current trend of everybody wanting a siberian husky or malamute, they are becoming too common in this country because people buy them without having a clue how different they are to other dogs.

They are splendid dogs, and beauty-talking, they are my favorites. I didnt go for this exactly because of the type of character that they have; that is quite independent and very different from a czech wolf dog afaik.

kerrysgold wrote: »

why exactly do you want a czech wolfdog anyway? what's wrong with having any dog as a pet? perhaps a more docile dog that would be happier with your working arrangement?

I explained that again and again ...

kerrysgold wrote: »

no matter what dog you get, you really need to employ somebody to come in during the middle of the day to take him out, it's cruel to leave a dog alone for 8 hours especially as they need to go outside every four hours at least.

That can be setup. Anyway, girlfriend will probably have nothing to do or part time job, so ... problem solved.

Can we get back in topic? ... Anybody know any breeder out there? ... OR is this interrogation continuing again ? :P

EGAR

As the owner of a true 50/50 wolfhybrid for the past 5 years, I truly hope you know what you are getting yourself into if you manage to acquire a pup.

I am aware of the breed history of these *dogs* and wouldn't touch one with a bargepole. That is all I am going to say on this subject.

The Sweeper

"Perceived breed values" = rubbish.

With every single animal you will ever own, you ONLY GET OUT WHAT YOU PUT IN.

That's why labradors bite more people every year than pit bulls do.
That's why small, cute, handbag-sized dogs turn out to be spoiled, mental little savages.
That's why, most of the time, when you meet an anxious, nervous, fearful and aggressive dog, you'll find an owner who facilitates that behaviour (or one in its past life that facilitated that behaviour).

Forget perceived breed values, and replace it with this mantra:

Garbage in = garbage out.

You would very possibly be a fabulous dog owner. But if you've never owned a dog before, think about the animal more than about yourself. It's not fair on one of this specific breed to take one on if there is even the slightest chance that you're going to mess it up. With the wrong handling in early life, it could end up being distressed and aggressive if you're not able to make its position in the grand scheme of things known to it very clearly from an early age. If you don't know how to train it out of its natural hunting desires, it'll be very difficult to handle around other animals (and possibly small children?)

Even if you've owned a dog before, have you any experience training a dog? Correct training with certain breeds is very difficult - not for the breed, for you. You can really mess a dog up if you can't get your head around how to issue commands, how to use your own body language and how to motivate an animal to train it. (Czech W/Ds need very specific motivation for training - I don't know what that is, but if it's always food you'll end up with a waddling wolfdog, and if it's rough-house play, where does that sit with quelling the dog's natural hunting drive to seek out and be rewarded with something it wants? I don't know - just throwing this out there.)

If you mess this up, this dog will be nearly impossible to rehome. (Or worse again, you'll get a huge amount of interest from muppets.)

If the breeder won't give you a male animal, that to me smacks of a bloke who still wants to make a sale, but can't in all conscience give you a male dog because he doesn't think you can handle the breed and is hoping if he gives you a female it'll all sort itself out in the end.

Still though, you've already said you aren't interested in anything except breeder's details. Still would like to hear your comments on one thing though:

How do you feel about the fact that the dogs were registered as a kennel club breed in the UK and then that classification was withdrawn after contact with DEFRA, which classifies the breed apparently as a 'dangerous wild animal'?

sypher

Nope, never owned a dog before, but i'm studying, and im doing everything i can to get up to date and well informed about everything around the CSW.

I guess i wont handle it when he's young much, since it seems that there's no breeder for the csw in ireland, that means, i'll have to get a 8 months dog, due to laws of import.

About the UK classification, i've seen the dog and got around it. That classification is stating that any dog that has wolf ancestry should be classed as dangerous wild animal. Thats a long shot. Anyway, its highly controversial, and only in the UK as far as i know ... In the rest of europe its ok. For example, here in italy we've got restrictions, but the Czech wolfdog is a recognized exception.

Also, if you believe in what you wrote (i get out only what i put in); then that act should be highly controversial for you too, isnt it ?

As for the guy trying to make a sale ... might be right. Still, i dont see the problem. Its a Dog we're talking about here, not a wolf or a tiger. Its a DOG. "D ... O ... G".

If i were to fail with this breed, then i'd probably fail with any breed, and that fails the whole "get a dog" concept. The problem, imho, is not the breed, isnt it? ...

Anyway, for my 2 cents ... your rule of garbage in = garbage out is correct to a certain extent.

While its true that little "cute" dogs often are more "bossy" cuz they lack human alpha (garbage in - garbage out), its also true that different breeds have different personalities / work predisposition. Try to make a herding dog out of a chiwawa or of a sighthound...

All of this imho. Take care

BryanL

I think putting a pup of any breed in quarantine for 6 months is a very high price for the animal to pay.
Bryan

sypher

BryanL wrote: »

I think putting a pup of any breed in quarantine for 6 months is a very high price for the animal to pay.
Bryan

And thats why i said i will avoid it.
By buying the dog at already 8 months, he can AVOID the quarantine.

If i had no chance of getting a dog without putting it into a 6 month quarantine, i would never buy it.

bigpinkelephant

sypher wrote: »

I dont see the problem. Its a Dog we're talking about here, not a wolf or a tiger. Its a DOG. "D ... O ... G".

Well actually, it's a hybrid between a dog and a wolf.
Seems you have learned a lot from all this "research" you've done...

sypher

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

Well actually, it's a hybrid between a dog and a wolf.
Seems you have learned a lot from all this "research" you've done...

AFAIK, from my "research", all the dogs were wolfes in the beginning.
The Czech Wolf Dog is just a relatively new breed, (1955), so with more percentage of wolf blood in their veins.

Yet, its still lower than the percentage of dog, so, imho, thats enough to be called a dog. You should check with people that have it already, and ask them how they are with it, instead of bashing me here for that

A Wolf is a Wolf.... a Czech Wolf Dog, its much much much more similar to a dog than a Wolf. If you think otherwise, u're just badly informed. And its because of this that i said "dont forget that its a dog". Because it IS ... Sorry if my misuse of words altered you, hope you got what i meant now. TC.

bigpinkelephant

Tell you what, you obviously just hear what you want to hear, so go buy your wolfdog, hopefully you'll be just as full of know-how when it all goes wrong...

EGAR

Its a Dog we're talking about here, not a wolf or a tiger. Its a DOG. "D ... O ... G".

Ok, I broke my promise by posting again BUT I thought you said you've done your research? The above quote clearly shows you haven't. This is a relatively new breed which is only about 50 years old since the first 50/50 litter was born. Since then more wolves have been crossed in, they are also line bred to keep the phenotype which means there is ALOT of inbreeding. This also means your above quote is incorrect as in its genotype the CWD remains a Wolfhybrid.

Not every Border Collie herds sheep, not every Pit Bull fights other dogs, not every Greyhound enjoys racing.

To import a pup, then subject to quarantine which is basically solidary confinement during the pups most forming time of life is a sure way of getting a messed up dog.

Not very well thought through and very egotistical in my opinion, after all it's supposed to be about the animal, not your gratification.

sypher

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

Tell you what, you obviously just hear what you want to hear, so go buy your wolfdog, hopefully you'll be just as full of know-how when it all goes wrong...

IF you had actually read the topic, you'd know that my question (and the topic at hand) was talking about WHERE to buy it. Not about morals or wether or not i should buy it.

Also, you seem pretty sure of what's bound to happen for someone that tells another being that they hear only what they want to hear

Whatever, it was a nice and useless off-topic battle, so keep at it if you want, im outta here.