Concern for Plane reported Overdue.

Steyr

Concern after plane reported overdue
Saturday, 25 October 2008 22:29
There is concern tonight about the whereabouts of a light aircraft with four people on board which is overdue on a flight earlier in the day from Gloucester in England to Kilrush, Co Clare.

The twin-engine plane took off from Gloucester at around 10.30am and was due to land in Clare around midday.

It was later reported overdue.

The Irish Aviation Authority said the last known sighting of the plane was at about 12.30pm over the Wicklow Mountains.

The pilot of the aircraft is believed to have made radio contact when he flew into Irish airspace and is described as being very experienced.

The nationality of those on board is not yet known.

Dublin Coastguard has confirmed a search and rescue operation will commence at 'first light'.


http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1025/missingplane.html

Doesn't look good.

ch252

Not at all, but in all fairness, what were they doing?!
It went missing yesterDAY, I'd say something if it was night and yet they're still leaving it until this morning to start the search, after losing contact with it yesterday at 12:25. I'd have much prefered his chances yesterday...

Tabnabs

"The IAA said Dublin air traffic control monitored the flight before passing it over to Kilrush a little over ten minutes before the last sighting.

But it was not until 1800 BST when a relative of the pilot raised concerns about the plane's whereabouts. "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/gloucestershire/7691465.stm

So by the time the 'emergency services' heard about it, it was already twilight with a full storm with very poor visibility in progress.

Of course, I'm sure you'd have handled it differently...

ch252

Dyflin wrote: »

Of course, I'm sure you'd have handled it differently...

TAF EIDW 242200Z 250606 21022G32KT 9999 SCT010 BKN020
TEMPO 0615 21026G42KT
TEMPO 0724 5000 RADZ BKN010
BECMG 1518 22017KT
BECMG 0003 27015KT SCT020 SCT040


Thats yesterdays weather for dublin, sure it was very windy but visibility was 9999 apart from temporarily in the morning. Weather was ok accoriding to this to send out a SAR heli.
Also, watch the rte news report, If you cared to watch it you would know that the last contact with the plane was at 12:17 yesterday. So yes, you're right, I would have handled it differentely.

great

Rescue teams searching for a missing UK-registered light aircraft have found wreckage in a remote mountainous region on Ireland's east coast.

Sky News: First For Breaking News

The Piper PA-28 single engine plane left Gloucester shortly before 10am on Saturday for Kilrush airfield in Co Kildare with four people on board.

The last radar sighting was at 12.30pm over the Wicklow mountains, about 20 miles out of Kilrush, according to the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA).

sky news




Wreckage found in aircraft search
Sunday, 26 October 2008 10:54

Rescue teams searching for a British registered light aircraft which went missing yesterday have located wreckage in the Wicklow mountains.

There is no information yet about the aircraft's pilot and passengers.

A coastguard helicopter is taking a medical team to the crash site in a remote area near the Wicklow Gap.
Advertisement

The Piper PA 28 light aircraft took off from Gloucester in England yesterday and was due to land at Kilrush airfield in Co Kildare yesterday afternoon. It is believed there were four people on board.

The alarm was raised when the plane had still not reached the airstrip by 7pm yesterday evening.

The plane was last spotted over the Wicklow mountains yesterday and since 7am this morning a search has been ongoing in the area stretching from the Mullaghcleevaun Mountain, down to the Wicklow Gap and west to Kilrush.

Wreckage has now been located in an area near the Wicklow Gap and a medical team is en route.

Gardaí from Bray station are coordinating the search, assisted by the Air Corps, the Dublin coastguard helicopter, the Dublin, Wicklow and Glen of Imaal Mountain Rescue Teams and a large number of volunteers.

rte news



boards forgot to put the time back a hour

BeardyGit

www.dwmrt.ie

ch252

Gil,
Thanks for that, after reading the posts above I now see that everything was acted on relatively quickly given the circumstances. I was shocked however when I seen the rte news report saying they lost contact at 12:17 and weren't going to be starting the SAR mission until today but I guess with it being a private airfield, less people knew about it and it was left up to the owner of the airfield or the family to report it, whereas if it was flying into a regional or a state airport then ATC would have notified the emergency services a lot quicker. I guess it's nobodies fault at the end of the day, just a very unfortunate occurence.

My thoughts are with the families involved with the 4 on board.

Tabnabs

darragh-k wrote: »

Thats yesterdays weather for dublin,

No, that's yesterdays forecast. Forecast and actual weather are two very different things, a quick look at the M2 buoy readings will give some indication of the conditions for the aircraft crossing the Irish Sea yesterday. Also confirmed by first hand account of the MRT.

darragh-k wrote: »

Also, watch the rte news report, If you cared to watch it you would know that the last contact with the plane was at 12:17 yesterday. So yes, you're right, I would have handled it differentely.

Your original blasting of the emergency services for their inaction was a massive jump to conclusions from one source of information. My point was it's easy to lay blame from the comfort of you keyboard. But just being outside yesterday afternoon you'd have known that conditions were terrible and this was compounded by the fact that there was a significant delay in getting the information through to the right people.

ch252

Dyflin wrote: »

No, that's yesterdays forecast. Forecast and actual weather are two very different things, a quick look at the M2 buoy readings will give some indication of the conditions for the aircraft crossing the Irish Sea yesterday. Also confirmed by first hand account of the MRT.

Yes, but if you look at the metars all day yeasterday, for the most part visibility was 9999, it was very windy but that calmed down later on in the day. And the TAF was for Dublin airport, I never said anything about the Irish sea.

And also, I wasn't blasting the emergency services, rather that they weren't alerted as quickly as they should have been but as I said in my last post, thats just an unfortunate occurence. I owrk for the civil defence so I'm not blasting them behind my keyboard, Iam part of the emergency services. Now, can we leave this and get back to the thread at hand please.

PhoenixRising

Absolutely crazy stuff to have attempted that trip across the Irish Sea in that weather yesterday, especially in a light single with 4 on board. The weather here yesterday was appalling, extremely windy and very poor visibility. What the hell was the pilot thinking.

It's not looking too hopeful that there's any survivors. Such a waste of 4 lives. That airplane had no business being in the air yesterday. It sounds like another classic case of an inexperienced pilot not knowing his limitations. Very sad.

Tannylan

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1026/missing.html

ch252

Just heard on the radio there that wreckage has been found near the Wicklow Gap area. No other news as yet.

EDIT: nevermind...:PTannylan got there before me!

Darragh29

PhoenixRising wrote: »

Absolutely crazy stuff to have attempted that trip across the Irish Sea in that weather yesterday, especially in a light single with 4 on board. The weather here yesterday was appalling, extremely windy and very poor visibility. What the hell was the pilot thinking.

It's not looking too hopeful that there's any survivors. Such a waste of 4 lives. That airplane had no business being in the air yesterday. It sounds like another classic case of an inexperienced pilot not knowing his limitations. Very sad.

Plane was a twin engined set up apparently...

PhoenixRising

Darragh29 wrote: »

Plane was a twin engined set up apparently...

Doesn't change the fact that he should not have made the trip in that weather. Most reports are saying it was a PA28, which is a single.

Gazza22

Yeah it's been confirmed as a PA 28, all four bodies recovered.

skyhighflyer

Sad story alright. An army helicopter landed near Naas hospital about half an hour ago. Just got to see it and take a quick snap before it took off.

damo

Very sad. I did all my PPL and hour building in a PA28...i wonder was it an engine failure or did they get lost in IMC or something?

RIP.

Tannylan

R.I.P

donvito99

+
RIP

andy_g

but also guys we cant rule out it may have been a heart attack or any other human factors that could have come into play

donvito99

I know this is more to do with the emergency services forum but did anyone see the guard on the 9 o clock news with the blue and white checkered hi viz jacket. If so ,what does it mean?

BeardyGit

donvito99 wrote: »

I know this is more to do with the emergency services forum but did anyone see the guard on the 9 o clock news with the blue and white checkered hi viz jacket. If so ,what does it mean?

Scene Commander....

BrianD

A very sad day for the families involved.

However, having read and heard the various media reports there seems to be a big time gap between when the plane disappeared and when the emergency services went into action.

Perhaps as a bystander, I can ask this question. Would this aircraft not had been tracked by air traffic control? Surely it would have dropped off someones screen? Or was it flying too low.

According to RTE, it was their 9 o'clock bulletin that generated the reports from the public as to the area to where the plane was heard flying low.

There just seems to me to be a long gap between the last radio contact, the plane being reported overdue and the search starting. If the nine o'clock news was the first public airiing of the story was an opportunity lost to get the message out on local radio?

lovepink_xo

BrianD wrote: »

A very sad day for the families involved.

However, having read and heard the various media reports there seems to be a big time gap between when the plane disappeared and when the emergency services went into action.

Perhaps as a bystander, I can ask this question. Would this aircraft not had been tracked by air traffic control? Surely it would have dropped off someones screen? Or was it flying too low.

According to RTE, it was their 9 o'clock bulletin that generated the reports from the public as to the area to where the plane was heard flying low.

There just seems to me to be a long gap between the last radio contact, the plane being reported overdue and the search starting. If the nine o'clock news was the first public airiing of the story was an opportunity lost to get the message out on local radio?

it was on the news before 9pm..

highlydebased

BrianD wrote: »

A very sad day for the families involved.

However, having read and heard the various media reports there seems to be a big time gap between when the plane disappeared and when the emergency services went into action.

Perhaps as a bystander, I can ask this question. Would this aircraft not had been tracked by air traffic control? Surely it would have dropped off someones screen? Or was it flying too low.

According to RTE, it was their 9 o'clock bulletin that generated the reports from the public as to the area to where the plane was heard flying low.

There just seems to me to be a long gap between the last radio contact, the plane being reported overdue and the search starting. If the nine o'clock news was the first public airiing of the story was an opportunity lost to get the message out on local radio?

No. The Aircraft was flying VFR, (visual flight rules) as the majority of light aircraft do. They are not tracked by radar. There is an FIS frequency in which light aircraft can call up for flight information, along with any known traffic en route. From what I heard, this aircraft was handed off to Kilrush AG radio before the accident, but I'm open to correction on this

Further, some articles state he closed his flightplan with Dublin, which would make sense why the alarm was not raised earlier.

ch252

I heard on the news that radar contact was lost but as we have seen tere are a lot of rumours floating about.

irishatco

Neon-Circles wrote: »

Further, some articles state he closed his flightplan with Dublin, which would make sense why the alarm was not raised earlier.

That is indeed the case, and contributed to the delay in establishing the whereabouts of the aircraft.

I'm not in full possession of the facts related to the incident, so feel uncomfortable commenting further on the case.

Smokey Bear

Very sad case indeed condolences to all .
Heard about flight plan being closed in flight but also more worryingly a possible software update that was recently installed prevented certain tasks being done.
A very professional job done by all services in the recovery operation.


Smokey Bear

BrianD

Nobody doubts the professionalism of the emergency services and it appears that the plane wreckage was found very quickly once the search started.

Iy will be interesting to see the time lines of the official report. It is my perception - and I don't know if this is shared by others - but there seems to be gap between the plane disappearing and it being reported as "overdue" - at least to the public. Were the relevant authorities aware of the gravity in the interim or is there a potential hole in aviation safety for light aircraft?

I also believe that "overdue" was a poor choice of words to be used by the media and I presume it came from an official source or press release. "Overdue" lacks urgency and greatly plays down the situation. We live in Ireland where nearly everything is "overdue" so why worry?

It was quite obvious that a plane that is in flight and then does not turn up is not "overdue" but "missing" or "lost". This would have instilled a lot more urgency in media reports and could have generated reports from the public earlier who can assist the emergency services and I believe it was reports from the public who helped narrow the search.

Even on Sunday morning RTE (and I'm sure other media outlets) were still using the word "overdue" while it's clear a major search and rescue operation was underway.

mikeyb

Being 'overdue' when flying a private aircraft can be due to many possiblities. I don't think every aircraft that's overdue can be seen as an emergency. Because a VFR flight has control over where they go and when, they don't have to report in to ATC the way a commerical flight does.

I'm sure many, many flights each year don't turn up on time, and can be due to factors such as weather which might make a pilot change his intended landing field or indeed turn 180 and go back where he came from. A private pilot can decide on a whim to change his route and visit another county if he wants to etc. without having to tell anybody immediately (AFAIK). So a pilot might never land at the airport he/she intended and might not inform anyone until later on. I would imagine that is the reason why emergencies are not declared immediately - to ensure that one of the above has not happened?

I'm not an expert by the way, just my two cents...

ch252

Micky,
Your right there for the most part. He could have diverted or returned back to Gloucester but he would have had to notify somebody if he was changing his flight plan. no nescessarily air traffic control(although that would be the handiest), he could get in contact with the field he is returning to, and as long as he stays below 2000ft and out of any tower zones then he can go where he wants, all he needs to do is contact the field in question, which IMO is what the pilot should have done, but theres no point in pointing the finger at this stage anyway, its just an unfortunate occurence caused by a number of factors

As per above, I am open to correction but thats the general gist of it, it may be below 2500ft that you dont need to call shannon control at or something like that but thats the gist of vfr rules that apply in this case.