MAJOR ROH Announcement (Possible Spoliers)

rovert

flahavaj wrote: »

As in romantically involved? If so the bizarreness of that makes my head want to explode.

Was this not clear enough:

Cary Silkin's boyfriend "Bushwacker" Luke Miller is getting Gabe's job.

flahavaj

rovert wrote: »

Was this not clear enough:

The bizarreness of that reality led me to presume that some kind of sarcasm or smart comment on your part was more acceptable than the truth.

A former Bushwhacker and the owner of ROH are riding? I've heard it all now.

You'd have thought that the one called Butch would have been a better candidate for a fruitcake wouldn't ya?:pac:

rovert

rovert wrote: »

Cary Silkin's boyfriend "Bushwacker" Luke Miller is getting Gabe's job.

His surname is Williams not Miller, Miller is his tag partner's surname.

the flananator

I would find it absolutely hilarious if ROH goes down the cartoon route. Imagine if Aries was forced to become Austin Starr again. Oh the irony would be delicious.

gimmick

flahavaj wrote: »

Baaaaack on topic anyway, I'm surprised at the news reports that have been posted about ROH bleeeding money so badly.

I read a while back that there was far too much money going out on "imports" who have pretty much zero drawing power. The likes of the DragonGate performers and such, while an integral part of the WM weekends imo, serve very little purpose throughout the rest of the year. I cannot imagine they are cheap. Not to mention the insipid Tammy Sytch run, but I guess that cannot have been too expensive.

rovert wrote:

Cary Silkin's boyfriend "Bushwacker" Luke Miller is getting Gabe's job.

I thought you were being facetious as well to be fair.

Ill await to hear some facts before I damn this outright. I will be gutted if ROH goes down the route of cartoon buffonery and antics. Its not what made the company what it is. Having said that, if what the company is is unprofitable, or loss making, changes are needed!

I would find it absolutely hilarious if ROH goes down the cartoon route. Imagine if Aries was forced to become Austin Starr again. Oh the irony would be delicious.

If he was being used properly and for more than a 2 minute backstage skit every now and then, I would doubt if he cared his name was Discopants Denis.

gimmick

It is being said on the ROH board that Meltzer has reported that Adam Pearce is coming into book the promotion with the instruction of less MOVEZ, and a clearer face/heel distinction. I have no link I am afraid, so this is purely speculation so far.

If this is to be the case though, why would Pearce have been let go/stopped being booked by ROH a few very short weeks ago?

One a side note

Pearce dropped his NWA title to some Mexican dude over the weekend.

Hmm, isn't the only beef between ROH and Low Ki now moot as GS is gone? Could this be a reason for the departure? Silkin wanted him back in, GS refused and that led to a falling out?

rovert

gimmick wrote: »

It is being said on the ROH board

Stopped reading here

rovert

Ah ****e it IS true about Adam Pearce, worst day of my life :mad:

gimmick

Better than the other alternative of Bushwacker?

flahavaj

Just listened to the Observer Radio show and the gist of the changes are as follows:

Pearce is the new booker.

They want to run shorter shows with shorter matches.

Have a more well-defined heel/babyface format.

The shows will be run in a more 70's style, with less crazy high-spots.

Now in fairness I wouldn't be averse to some of these changes. A lot of ROH shows are quite difficult to sit through from start to finish as it seems every match on the card has to be a balls to the wall imitation of a 90's All Japan classic. If the new booker can help them to tone it down in the undercard and help build towards a better main event, then thats a good thing.

I also wouldnt have a huge problem if they book a few veterans on the undercard, but only if they're guys who'll add to the paying audience and don't alienate the ones they've had from the start. Perhaps a format that would appeal across the board would be to keep their traditional balls to the wall double main events with their established home-grown guys and then throw a few well know local vets in their home markets to pad out the undercard and draw in a few hundred on a nostalgia buzz? I mean something like booking Demolition against the Briscoes would have a certain curiosity value to a fanbase outside the normal ROH audience.

Also, has Adam Pearce any experience of booking a company in the past?

gimmick

Pretty sure he ran a promotion in Chicago at one stage or another.

Less long matches? Have matches on the undercard got fairly shorter in the last few years? What I do not want to see is a bunch 5-6 minute matches where you cannot begin to get a feel for either wrestler. Maybe less undercard matches, and not have dross like Ruckus, Jigsaw, Evans and the likes stinking the place up.

flahavaj

gimmick wrote: »

Pretty sure he ran a promotion in Chicago at one stage or another.

Less long matches? Have matches on the undercard got fairly shorter in the last few years? What I do not want to see is a bunch 5-6 minute matches where you cannot begin to get a feel for either wrestler. Maybe less undercard matches, and not have dross like Ruckus, Jigsaw, Evans and the likes stinking the place up.

Definitely less matches but theres still really no need to have 15-20 minute "epics" on the under card., its just so alienating for a non-ROH audience. If they keep matches to around the 10 min mark and tone down the crazy near-falls in they undercard they'll still have ample time to get themselves over, without killing the crowd dead and without giving the main event an impossible task to top their match.

Agreed on Ruckus and Jigsaw, but Evans is a highly marketable guy with great charisma who could connect with a certain sector of the audience if given the chance so hes definitley worth keeping on. Kids would love him if given the proper exposure.

rovert

ROH bringing in the big guns:
http://rohwrestling.com/news/article.aspx?id=2356

the flananator

rovert wrote: »

ROH bringing in the big guns:
http://rohwrestling.com/news/article.aspx?id=2356

*obligatory 'why are TNA allowing this??!' post. *

rovert

Poor ROHbots:
http://rohwrestling.com/MessageBoard/down.asp

gimmick

Thats hilarious, but not in the slightest bit surprising. FFS, there was a different thread about

At which point Joe should make his entrance,

Who he should face,

Should he win

Is he permanently back

Will his appearance be on DVD as it will not be on PPV

This on top of approximately thousand threads about Sapolosky.

Seriously, i would love to get the admins log in to say they were going to start bringing in the likes of Snitsky, Masters, Knox, The Shane Brothers etc. Cue a meltdown.

Book it Gabe :rolleyes:

jeffk

anyone got an idea what a typical 70s wrestling match would be or a youtube link?
See where roh will be going!!

rovert

jeffk wrote: »

anyone got an idea what a typical 70s wrestling match would be or a youtube link?
See where roh will be going!!

White babyface vs scary black man

jeffk

rovert wrote: »

White babyface vs scary black man

Holy jesus bang goes roh so

rovert

jeffk wrote: »

Holy jesus bang goes roh so

Pearce's updated booking:

White babyface vs a Puerto Rican in a Texas Death match.

rovert

Gabe is gone right?

Sasaki & Nakajima Return To ROH
Tuesday, October 28, 2008

Typically December 26th and 27th are days for people to sit back, relax, enjoy the holidays passed, and prepare for the new year. But for Ring of Honor, it’s a time to give back to our fans with a major Christmas present of our own over the course of “Final Battle” weekend.

At “Glory by Honor VII” in September, Kensuke Sasaki and Katushiko Nakajima made their highly anticipated ROH debuts against Claudio Castagnoli and Bryan Danielson respectively. The current GHC Champion showed his power in a victory over Claudio, while Nakajima demonstrated why many consider him the future of Japanese wrestling in a loss to Danielson. Both wrestlers were impressed with the level of competition in ROH, and expressed interest in returning in the near future.


Well that future is now as these two fierce competitors will get an opportunity to impress the ROH faithful once more when they return to Philadelphia on Dec. 26th and debut in the Hammerstein Ballroom on Dec. 27th!


Each competitors opponents will be announced in the upcoming weeks, and you can be assured Ring of Honor will put together the best match-ups possible. “Final Battle” has served up some of the greatest moments in ROH history; from Aries title victory in ’04 to the AOTF tag title win in ’07, that event always delivers. Don’t be left out, great tickets are still available for both events here at rohwrestling.com!

michael.etc...

rovert wrote: »

Gabe is gone right?
[/spoiler]

I'm guessing this was in the works before he was given the boot. Otherwise it's totally odd.

rovert

michael.etc... wrote: »

I'm guessing this was in the works before he was given the boot. Otherwise it's totally odd.

I think they are trying appease hardcore fans and hopefully it works. But it totally flies in the face of cost cutting.

rovert

Rob Feinstein took a shot at Rob today

October 27 2008 Monday Update...Plugs and news from all over the globe!! Godwinns shoot preview up in 24 hours....Steiner Back in TNA...RIADBSC Karma is a bitch!!!!

RIADBSC= Revenge Is A Dish Best Served Cold

^ I didnt get that part.

jeffk

http://www.sescoops.com/roh/Gabe_Sapolsky_Comments_On_Leaving_Ring_Of_Honor.shtml


"There really isn't a side to my story," Sapolsky said. "There was no fight or hard feelings. I understand Cary's decision. I love ROH and hopefully everyone will give the new direction a chance."

rovert

There is some great titbits in the latest F4W newsletter like that ROH is looking to get TV with Fuse TV and the Gabe's format sheet for shows would contain directions like "six minutes of spots" and the like.

I really cant wait for the Observer tonight.

According to MY sources Gabe may book the NWA.

flahavaj

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/ROH_News_29/article_27530.shtml

Some of the Bots got worked.:pac:

gimmick

^ That looks like a load old poppyccok tbh. The letter seems very contrived or something? (I guess therein lies the work)

Unless the work began when they decided to say that Pearce was no longer being booked?

McConnon

Is ROH still shown on the Fight Network/Wrestling Channel?

gimmick

Yes, it showed parts of the classic UNIFIED show from Liverpool August 2006 earlier. The times are a tad all over the place, so check the tv guide or whatever

flahavaj

gimmick wrote: »

^ That looks like a load old poppyccok tbh. The letter seems very contrived or something? (I guess therein lies the work)

Unless the work began when they decided to say that Pearce was no longer being booked?

The article is completely tongue in cheek, the Torch often does stuff like that apparently. Didn't stop the ROH board panicking as usual though.

gimmick

Oh those zany moROHns. Will they ever just calm down?

rovert

flahavaj wrote: »

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/ROH_News_29/article_27530.shtml

Some of the Bots got worked.:pac:

*Facepalm*

You are the one who got worked this is Torch Humour aka awful satire

gimmick

Good read this.

RING OF HONOR AT THE CROSSROADS: LOOKING AT ROH, THE DEPARTURE OF GABE SAPOLSKY AND THE FUTURE
by Mike Johnson @ 2008-10-28 15:31:00

Since word broke early Sunday morning that Ring of Honor owner Cary Silkin had decided to replace Gabe Sapolsky as booker for the company, there's been a lot of concern about the future of the promotion, about the reasoning behind the decision and what this means for Ring of Honor fans.

ROH IN 2008

The reality is that over the last year, Ring of Honor was similar to a sports team that does well consistently but for whatever reason, never seemed to make it to the end of the playoffs. It's no secret I have been a fan of the product from the first live show the company put together in 2002, but while the product was still solid and featured good to great wrestling on the main event level thanks to the likes of Bryan Danielson and Nigel McGuinness (who I don't think gets even a fraction of the credit he deserves), it lacked something.

I described it on Monday as "not hitting on all cylinders" and that's probably the best way I can describe it. It was missing that intangible "it" that had made the company such a breakthrough, cult product and was lacking in the next generation of talent. There came a time in ECW where no matter how hard Paul Heyman pushed the latter generation of Rhino, Steve Corino, Justin Credible, Lance Storm, etc. and no matter how talented they were, they didn't break through for some reason.

To me, that sort of describes the last year of ROH. It just didn't have the heart that it had in previous years. The work ethic was still there, and some of the shows and PPVs were great, but that intangible "it" was missing and anyone but the most die-hard fans were starting to feel that way. It was ROH for sake of being ROH, not something that felt like it was trailblazing it's own legend. I wouldn't say the company itself peaked as much as the direction may have, since it was becoming harder and harder to replenish the talent plucked by larger companies. The new breed worked as hard and some graduated into becoming stars, like Nigel, but others didn't fare as well.

ROH events didn't feel as organic as it had in the past, especially to those who had been following the company for a long period of time. It's hard to explain in detail, because I am sure there are people who are reading this and think I'm out of my mind, because they love their ROH. Still, over the last year - whether it was burnout or the turnover in talent or whether it was what I truly believe deep down - that there wasn't one cause, but a cumulative effect of everything involved plus the pressures of keeping the company solvent in the current economy - there was something different about ROH.

EXIT GABE

When the guillotine dropped, it was Sapolsky's head that rolled. It had to be, because he was the booker. Bobby Knight didn't remain the Head Coach of Indiana forever, despite his past successes. Sapolsky was in the position of being ROH's Bobby Knight. Just by being in that role, he took a ton of credit for the company's successes, but Sapolsky also has to take the blame for when things don't work out.

Sapolsky was a great booker for the company, especially in terms of matchmaking. He took things that made All Japan and ECW great in their prime and used them as bullet points for his own masterpieces and was smart enough to surround himself with top talents. He could see talent in guys way before others could. He was good at what he did, although there were certainly times some of the workers felt the fans online were giving Sapolsky credit for things they put together themselves and that would drive them crazy. For some of them, it even drove them crazy reading it online after Silkin fired Sapolsky.

Still, in the same breath, those same wrestlers would credit him for motivating them and putting it all together, and they liked him. For the most part, Sapolsky was liked, to the point that not one person within ROH had anything negative to say after the firing. That said, Sapolsky's quirks were evident and I think part of this would be that they eventually worked against him.

Some may read what I am about to write as taking a shot at him, but it's actually the furthest thing from the truth. Sapolsky ran on ego. If he thought he was right about a talent or an angle, there was no arguing with him, because he was Gabe and he was right, because he was the booker. In a lot ways, that ego was the very reason for his booking success, because to truly become successful at anything, you have to believe your own hype. There's no room for doubt. Ric Flair was the greatest wrestler of all time because he was Ric Flair and Flair was the greatest, period. Why was he the greatest? Because he was Ric Flair. It was a self fulfilling prophecy.

Sapolsky had a similar mindset in speaking to him, not in a way that would be off-putting or putting himself over, but that he was sure he knew what he was doing. The downside to that was that if you questioned the decisions, there would certainly moments where he would respond immediately in a vicious, protective way, because that's what people in his position should do. I've known and dealt with Sapolsky since 1994, way back when he was running the Sabu Fan Club, and once he got into the booking position, that was an immediate change.

Although I never took it personally, there were certainly times when in asking questions or having discussions about the company, the reactions would come off condescending and over the top. As someone who worked with a lot of actors and writers when I worked full-time in the entertainment industry, this was nothing new to me, because that's how a lot of top level talents were - they were so talented, you overlooked the quirks because the benefits outweighed the aggravations that came with them.

Still, for some, whether it was the wrestlers who called looking for work and were asked to send tape even though they had known him dating back to ECW or whether it was an online writer (not me) who got dressed down for daring to say he thought a show was OK "but not a blow away show", one could easily see where Sapolsky's personality sometimes got a bad reputation. Gabe could drive people nuts. That's a fact. That said, for the record, I liked the guy, because even when he was pissing me off, I could understand where he was coming from when he would act that way, so I respected it once I got over wanting to kill him. That was the story with Sapolsky. You took the good and you took the bad because both are what made him so good when he was on creatively.

When things were looking up and great, the quirks were overlooked and Sapolsky was left somewhat to his own devices to book, working from home and keeping similar zany hours that his mentor, Paul Heyman, used to maintain. As 2008 and the realities of the current economy began to chip away at ROH, with more shows being run, more money being spent, PPV not leading to a turnover of new fans being attracted to the company, a national DVD deal doing just OK, there were no prospects of a light at the end of the tunnel. ROH was on a treadmill where they would do OK but were not making any real bank and at the same time, had some scary moments, such as the West Coast tour that bombed.

Something had to give. Right or wrong, that something was Sapolsky. The reality in a lot of ways is that the product under Sapolsky had probably gone as far as it could go under the current ROH business model and it was starting to show. When Cary Silkin added in the issues that popped up with Sapolsky at times and with the pressure of trying to take something he's invested a lot of money and time into (and in the end, ROH belongs to Silkin and it's his call to do what he sees fit with it, something a lot of fans forget), he made the call to release Sapolsky.

ENTER ADAM

As far as the future of the company, they've tapped Adam Pearce to be the new booker. That decision caused a lot of venom among fans but the reality is that you can't judge anyone until you see what they have in the tank. I can understand some fans complaining about Pearce's booking track record, but really, what track record did Sapolsky have in 2002? You have to see how things evolve before you can decry them - and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that others, including Silkin, are going to have some say in how the booking goes as well. It could be the worst decision in ROH history, it could be the best. It's like a first date - you don't know how it's going to pan out until you actually go on it. That's the stance I am taking with Pearce as booker and really, unless you are such a Sapolsky die-hard that he was the only reason you followed ROH, that's the only realistic stance you can and should take. Let ROH prove themselves (or prove your fears correct) before they are judged one way or the other. It's not like the level of the wrestling is going to drop - the same talents are still there (as of this writing). They will just have a new voice guiding them.

I do expect things to change, but not as much as some of the "ROH is going to turn into sports-entertainment" Chicken Little type emails I've read in the last few hours since I returned to New York after a weekend away. There's going to be a conscious effort to not book as many matches or talents on the shows, which in my mind, is a positive as there has always been a feeling of being overwhelmed with so much, too much during some ROH shows, although the last PPV was perfectly put together in my opinion.

I don't see Cary Silkin wanting to change what brought ROH to the dance to a massive extent as much as I think we'll see a spin on things from a different perspective. I think the days of the four hour plus shows are over. For those who worry that Sapolsky's dismissal means the end of Japanese talents, ROH announced several for their Final Battle event today. I don't think things will be a massive overhaul, but they will be different. They have to be.

For better or worse, the ROH product as it currently exists was not making the in-roads the company needed for it to work and if it that doesn't change, sooner or later, there won't be an ROH at all. It's Silkin's company and his investment into it that he needs to protect from going South. Whether you personally agree with the moves or not, Silkin was within his rights to make them. Time will tell whether they were the right moves to make, the same as history has told the tale of every major booking change in the last 15-25 years.

There's been a lot of fear about the long-term future of ROH, even though they have shows announced and booked through the Spring of 2009. That's natural, but all you can do is wait and see how things evolve. I can say that from everyone I've spoken to, the vibe in the ROH office this week has pretty much been positive with all focuses being business as usual. Of the wrestlers I've spoken to, even those upset Sapolsky was replaced, they all realize the reality is that the move was made and they have jobs to do. It's no different from your favorite supervisor being replaced - you still have to make your quota.

In the beginning of ROH, Sapolsky used to refer to the company to me as a baby that was born and over time, it would have setbacks and scars, like anyone else would as they grow older. That baby is going to have to see how it grows now that it's independent of its first creative soul.

Good, bad or indifferent, the move was made to help ROH evolve into whatever it will become next. There are a lot of questions out there right - what will be Sapolsky's next move, if there is one inside the business? Can Pearce match or even surpass what Sapolsky accomplished? What talent will find themselves on the outs and which will be returning? What other changes are in store for the company?

And finally, the most important - can the promotion that defined what was the best in independent wrestling over the last decade redefine itself, survive in a rough period for professional wrestling and somehow grow the audience that had stagnated the last 12 months, all at the same time?

Mike Johnson can be reached at Mike@PWInsider.com.

Fozzy

rovert wrote: »

*Facepalm*

You are the one who got worked this is Torch Humour aka awful satire

I took that as flahavaj knowing that it was made up (as it says at the end of the article) and saying that some of the ROH fans believed it

When Adam Pearce puts himself in a main event it's going to be great, assuming the shows don't get much better than they have been

How many of the wrestlers can work the style Pearce is going for though? Gabe never seemed to be able to get through to some of them so I doubt that Pearce will either

flahavaj

rovert wrote: »

*Facepalm*

You are the one who got worked this is Torch Humour aka awful satire

Post #82 says hello.

I'd say something sarky like *Facepalm* but then again I'm not a total c*nt.:pac:

jeffk

Gabe Sapolsky has stepped down as the booker for Florida's Full Impact Pro promotion, which was considered the sister promotion for ROH. Sapolsky worked as the booker and while in Florida would handle DVD producing as well as oversee the commentary for the DVD's. With Sapolsky's departure from ROH, it was no longer feasible to work with FIP.

rovert

jeffk wrote: »

Gabe Sapolsky has stepped down as the booker for Florida's Full Impact Pro promotion, which was considered the sister promotion for ROH. Sapolsky worked as the booker and while in Florida would handle DVD producing as well as oversee the commentary for the DVD's. With Sapolsky's departure from ROH, it was no longer feasible to work with FIP.

Soure Wrestling Observer btw