Managers don't make a difference......

CHD · 26-10-2008 11:15am #1

A mate of mine claims that managers make no difference at all. I asked him if hes joking and asked him why....

He said -

ok, they are not needed because players standard of play at that level is so high what can the manager possibly do to improve it. as long as the players kept fit themselves they wud be fine....i mean are u telling me that without a manager they wud be clueless and just run around the pitch like ducks....managers are not needed....

I said -

LOL

He said -

tell me what the **** does it matter if a team has a gud manager.....how do players at that level bacome any better?

I said -

LOL, are you seriously saying managers aren't needed in the premiership

He said -

Yes

Theres no telling him so i said id ask the good people of boards.Managed to get him to bet on it too.

So basically do managers make a difference?

Xavi6 · 26-10-2008 11:16am

Of course they, if only to act as motivators at the very least.

pablomakaveli · 26-10-2008 11:24am

Managers obviously do make a difference. They have to draw up tactics for their team, motivate players, keep watch over all the training, resolve conflicts between players and are involved in actually bringing the players in, in the first place.

if a team had no manager it would be chaos as there would focal point for the team.

theteal · 26-10-2008 11:25am

while from that perspective, your buddy has a point (if a bit weak). planning strategies, style of play, picking players, general on the spot decisions that are needed to get at teams would all be managerial decisions. Is Arsene Wenger useless? on the running around like ducks point, i'd say there is a decent chance it could happen, these are pampered soccerers after all, not the sharpest tools in the oven

copacetic · 26-10-2008 11:29am

CHD wrote: »

A mate of mine claims that managers make no difference at all. I asked him if hes joking and asked him why....

He said -

ok, they are not needed because players standard of play at that level is so high what can the manager possibly do to improve it. as long as the players kept fit themselves they wud be fine....i mean are u telling me that without a manager they wud be clueless and just run around the pitch like ducks....managers are not needed....

I said -

LOL

He said -

tell me what the **** does it matter if a team has a gud manager.....how do players at that level bacome any better?

I said -

LOL, are you seriously saying managers aren't needed in the premiership

He said -

Yes

Theres no telling him so i said id ask the good people of boards.Managed to get him to bet on it too.

So basically do managers make a difference?

You really gave him a good debate and detailed explanation of the merits of a good manager didn't you :rolleyes:

CHD · 26-10-2008 11:33am

copacetic wrote: »

You really gave him a good debate and detailed explanation of the merits of a good manager didn't you :rolleyes:

Did it require one?!

eirebhoy · 26-10-2008 11:33am

Cyprus 5-2 Ireland. A managerless team. No central midfielders.

shane86 · 26-10-2008 11:41am

theteal wrote: »

Is Arsene Wenger useless?

No, but for the squad he is certainly overrated. Player for player they should really win the EPL more regularly.

Anyway, of course you need a good manager. England are not the finished product yet, but the gulf of difference between McClaren England and Capello England is obvious, despite a nearly identical first choice squad. We are getting narrow wins, but that is Traps sytle, and a win is a win. Look at Svens run with Man City compared to previous managers. Phil Brown shocking the prem with what on paper is not a world class side.

Then look at France. A great squad on paper going nowhere under a nutjob of a manager.

Russia. Average squad on paper (like S Korea) going far under Gus. Same with Turkey, a manager who kept the it aint over til its over mantra all the way to the end.

Charlie · 26-10-2008 11:45am

Tell your mate to lay off the crack.

If he wants any proof that managers make a difference, get him to look at Newcastle before Keegan left, and then the 5 games after where no one was in charge.

CHD · 26-10-2008 11:48am

He also bet €500 Liverpool will finish ahead of Chelsea this year. He's my new best friend.

Dont be at yourself · 26-10-2008 11:54am

They make a huge difference, of course.

Actually, when 'arry revealed that Spurs paid 5 million for him, I was a little taken aback. Clubs often think nothing of spending 5 million on a utility player, so I wonder why there aren't many big-money managerial transfers. If they're going so cheap compared to players, why aren't they involved in more transfer tug-of-wars?

c0rk3r · 26-10-2008 12:00pm

Well it seems to me from your post you've no idea what a managers role in a club is. You started the thread in such a way as not to seem clueless and have someone else give you the answer so that in future debates you'll know what to say. Because from the above conversation you had no reply.

Management in business (football is just that) is simply the act of getting people together to accomplish desired goals. A managers role comprises planning, organizing, resourcing, leading or directing, and controlling players for the purpose of accomplishing a goal (winning).

Basic functions of management
Management operates through various functions, often classified as planning, organizing, leading/motivating, and controlling.

Planning: Deciding what needs to happen in the future and generating plans for action.
Organizing: (Implementation) making optimum use of the resources required to enable the successful carrying out of plans.
Staffing: Job Analyzing, recruitment, and hiring individuals for appropriate jobs.
Leading/Motivating: Exhibiting leadership and motivational skills in order to encourage others to play an effective part in achieving plans and ensure willing participation in the organization on the parts of workers.
Controlling: Monitoring, checking progress against plans, which may need modification based on feedback

policies and strategies
All policies and strategies must be discussed with all managerial personnel and staff.
Managers must understand where and how they can implement their policies and strategies.
A plan of action must be devised for each department.
Policies and strategies must be reviewed regularly.
Contingency plans must be devised in case the environment changes.
Assessments of progress ought to be carried out regularly by top-level managers.
A good environment is required within the club.

The manager is responsible for the overall performance of the club. If the club doesn't do well then hes got to go.

CHD · 26-10-2008 12:10pm

LOL

Its not me thinking managers arent needed. Its someone who cant post here so dint think i can prove it. Hes banned form boards.

Good post though. Should make him cop on.

Vokes · 26-10-2008 12:18pm

CHD wrote: »

Did it require one?!

Sure it did. And it sounds to me like you weren't able to anser your mate's question.

Pepe LeFrits · 26-10-2008 12:19pm

Pah, players make no difference.

CHD · 26-10-2008 12:21pm

SofaK wrote: »

Sure it did. And it sounds to me like you weren't able to anser your mate's question.

I tried, honestly. Thats why i posted here, there was just no telling him and i couldn't beleive he was serious.

Wreck · 26-10-2008 1:33pm

CHD wrote: »

Its someone who cant post here so dint think i can prove it. Hes banned form boards.

DBC lol

CHD · 26-10-2008 1:34pm

Wreck wrote: »

DBC lol

ding ding ding winna winna

estebancambias · 26-10-2008 1:38pm

They definetly matter, but their role is overstated.

colly10 · 26-10-2008 1:48pm

They matter, they tell players what to do, i've read that Benitez speaks to Carra like a youth team player and Carra has wondered if he rates him at all. He still has said that Benitez has really improved his game though.

Anyway, if you were to send players out without instruction they would be all over the place, when things are going against you in a match players all have different ideas of how to handle it (what to do), it's up to the manager to make that decision and if he wasn't there they'd all do their own thing and get destroyed.

glenjamin · 26-10-2008 2:35pm

CHD wrote: »

He also bet €500 Liverpool will finish ahead of Chelsea this year. He's my new best friend.

I presume that €200 of that bet is mine yea?

~Rebel~ · 26-10-2008 2:51pm

just as a simple example from a liverpool POV.

They can start with a 4-4-2, using todays match squad
Arbeloa, Carra, Agger, Aurelio
Gerrard, Masch, Alonso, Riera
Kuyt, Keane

At that, with everyone playing their natural game, things would be ok, Gerrard would be coming inside a lot, but thats not the worst. But, if things aren't working, if the oppositions midfield are overrunning and they're keeping all the possession, what do you do? Without a manager, you keep doing what you're doing, and probably lose. But a manager can say " ok, Kuyt pull back to RW, Gerrard come inside behind the front man, Masch stay deep, Alonso, work around the center circle. Wingers, come inside to support the striker whenever the ball is on the opposite wing, FB's, when the winger is supporting the striker, you move up to the halfway line to provide an outlet, but otherwise stay in defence unless supporting an attack on your wing. Masch, If the FB is supporting an attack, you shift over to that side of teh pitch to act as backup FB and Alonso you move back to cover Masch's position."

Without a manager, none of teh above would happen, but wiht a manager, it can change the whole shape of a team without changing the personel. Players can't always just play their natural game, it won't always fit together. E.g If Dossena or Aurelio played their natural game, pool would be very light a lot of teh time as they want to sprint forward every chance they get. Has to be designated times where they can and a system there to support that.