Future of the Nocturnal Forum...

Steve

randylonghorn wrote: »

Why does that not actually reassure me in the slightest? :pac:

Two words:
toilet wine :pac:

randylonghorn

Galvasean wrote: »

I don't see how the Lair is being branded as exclusive or hard to get into. As Emo!!! said it's much easier to get into than say the Bar in BGRH (where you get yelled at for ordering the wrong imaginary drink). There have been lots of new posters arriving in the Lair in the past couple of weeks who are fitting in just fine. Like I said before just pop in and say hello and go from there.

I think it's just that (a) it's busy at times and (b) there are regulars who have got to know one another.

That CAN be a bit off-putting, but really, it's just a matter of girding the loins and jumping in.

I do agree that everyone makes an effort to welcome new people.

Steve

Galvasean wrote: »

I don't see how the Lair is being branded as exclusive or hard to get into. As Emo!!! said it's much easier to get into than say the Bar in BGRH (where you get yelled at for ordering the wrong imaginary drink). There have been lots of new posters arriving in the Lair in the past couple of weeks who are fitting in just fine. Like I said before just pop in and say hello and go from there.

It's not hard to get into.
It's not the least bit unwelcoming.

It's just too busy - that's why it's intimidating / off-putting for people who actually like to think about stuff before they post. By the time they do - the conversation has changed direction three times and there have been 50 posts after the one you hit 'quote' on.

Yes, I know the answer is to post on RC's thread and that's fine, I'm just pointing out why the lair can be intimidating to someone who's not used to that.

Galvasean

SteveC wrote: »

It's just too busy - that's why it's intimidating / off-putting for people who actually like to think about stuff before they post. By the time they do - the conversation has changed direction three times and there have been 50 posts after the one you hit 'quote' on.

I see that point. Although it's not busy all the time. Dropping in at a quieter time could be useful. There's also the Noobturnals thread which is a handy place to get to know a few people before leaping in at the deep end.

KnifeWRENCH

Wow - long thread is long! I haven't posted here for quite a while, for a number of reasons which I won't bore you with. But I have been lurking, and since I used post more in the very beginning of this forum, I suppose I'd better try and offer something vaguely constructive:

I don't think this forum is like AH, it's no way as hostile and there aren't as many in jokes.
I think The Lair is a welcoming place, but with the amount of traffic it gets, people can be ignored. I've ventured in there some times and had great chats with people. Other times I've posted and got no replies because the place was so busy. I know that nobody intentionally ignores anyone, but to people not used to the place, things may seem that way.

As far as I can see, there has been very little trouble in this forum. The only major incident I can recall are some highly inappropriate photos in the pics thread and the feedback thread from that troll in the goth/emo thread (which SDooM dealt with fantastically). So I don't think "The Wrath Of Kharn" is really needed.

Um....that's about it. Keep up the good work!

Xavi6

SteveC wrote: »

It's not hard to get into.
It's not the least bit unwelcoming.

It's just too busy - that's why it's intimidating / off-putting for people who actually like to think about stuff before they post. By the time they do - the conversation has changed direction three times and there have been 50 posts after the one you hit 'quote' on.

Yes, I know the answer is to post on RC's thread and that's fine, I'm just pointing out why the lair can be intimidating to someone who's not used to that.

+1

That's why I never post there anymore. More effort than it's worth really.

For example, I logged onto the front page of the site yesterday and saw someone had posted on the thread so I clicked in to it. I was taken to a page some 15 pages away from the latest post! I really could not be arsed clicking through idle chat to find out what the topic of the night is.

Galvasean

Xavi6 wrote: »

+1

That's why I never post there anymore. More effort than it's worth really.

For example, I logged onto the front page of the site yesterday and saw someone had posted on the thread so I clicked in to it. I was taken to a page some 15 pages away from the latest post!

I think that's actually a boards glitch. Happens on a lot of threads. I doubt fifteen pages worth of posts were made in such a short space of time.

Xavi6

Well currently it's at page 3100 (20 posts per page). Since the same time yesterday there have been 20 pages. That's 400 posts in one thread! Imagine if you didn't log on for 3 or 4 days.

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

randylonghorn

eVeNtInE wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Last time you were in that thread, I think.

You don't have to actually read and catch up anyway (though personally I often do a very quick skim just for news) ... just read the last few posts and dive in.

Xavi6

randylonghorn wrote: »

Last time you were in that thread, I think.

You don't have to actually read and catch up anyway (though personally I often do a very quick skim just for news) ... just read the last few posts and dive in.

That's all well and good if you know the forum and the people posting but for n00bs or nocturnal first timers it can be intimidating and quite a turn off.

randylonghorn

Xavi6 wrote: »

That's all well and good if you know the forum and the people posting but for n00bs or nocturnal first timers it can be intimidating and quite a turn off.

I accept that, Xavi (see post 203 and others above) ... I was addressing you specifically in that particular post, and you're neither a n00b or a first-timer.

I was responding to this specifically AFAIR:

Xavi6 wrote: »

Imagine if you didn't log on for 3 or 4 days.

Just about to fall asleep, so too tired to think more about this now, no disrespect intended, I know 'tis the middle of your day ... but any thoughts on good ways to make it less intimidating will I know be welcome.

From what I sleepily remember from the above, we have already discussed:

- Lock the Lair: which means we reduce the types of possible interaction from 2 (specific topical threads; general chat) to 1 type.

- Intro thread for newbies: already there, plus Official Title thread tends to work in a similar way.

- Slower paced chat thread: also already there, started by RC ages ago, and pulled out of mothballs recently.

Xavi6

Yeah I'd read those suggestions and they are great ideas.

Personally speaking (and that is all I can really do) as someone who is a regular poster in a lot of forums and who was 100% behind and involved in the creation of the Nocturnal Forum, I, rightly or wrongly, don't feel comfortable posting in it much any more, especially the Lair.

Sleep well

Chucky the tree

Xavi6 wrote: »

That's all well and good if you know the forum and the people posting but for n00bs or nocturnal first timers it can be intimidating and quite a turn off.

Some nfl type discussion thread FTW?:pac:

RxQueen

Xavi6 wrote: »

+1

That's why I never post there anymore. More effort than it's worth really.

For example, I logged onto the front page of the site yesterday and saw someone had posted on the thread so I clicked in to it. I was taken to a page some 15 pages away from the latest post! I really could not be arsed clicking through idle chat to find out what the topic of the night is.

you hit it on the head, there , you say its more effort that its worth , then fair enough dont post there. Like i said before your hand cant be held for you the hole time, you get to make make an effort , to see one being made to you in return.

the other thing is and error , i get that the whole time

Xavi6 wrote: »

That's all well and good if you know the forum and the people posting but for n00bs or nocturnal first timers it can be intimidating and quite a turn off.

again i was a n00b a few weeks ago , and was made very welcome and stuck around.. again its all about effort

Xavi6 wrote: »

Yeah I'd read those suggestions and they are great ideas.

Personally speaking (and that is all I can really do) as someone who is a regular poster in a lot of forums and who was 100% behind and involved in the creation of the Nocturnal Forum, I, rightly or wrongly, don't feel comfortable posting in it much any more, especially the Lair.

Sleep well

Its a shame you feel like that , but i think Killing the Lair would be a bad idea... nearly every forum has a OTB thread, i post in another on regular aswell.

personally i think many people in here(this thread) are just jumping on the band wagon. Which in turn is almost making me feel uncomfortable posting in the lair and other threads in here , on times in what ye call "unsuitable times " also mod bashing is never cool

I for one like someone said earlier , dont find anything Serious wrong with the fourm, again unless i missed something major !

]

Nerin

Emo is right xavi,you make zero effort,you'll get zero back. When i started posting in bgrh,i read the charter,read the first post at the bar,and then read the newest posts. And jumped in. We have a noob thread,we try very hard to welcome them,but if the aren't bothered to put in minimal effort,whats the point in them posting in the lair. Its true,we aren't here to hold peoples hands,they ultimately have to make the effort. If you can suggest more ways for us to welcome noobs to the forum,i'd like to see them posted,and if good,implemented

Xavi6

It's a fair point about the hand holding and from my point of view it's something I certainly don't need or expect (unless you're very good Nerin! ). I'm just merely giving the view from the other side of the fence and how a n00b could feel.

The Lair is great in terms of interaction and it's great that people have made friendships there which have transferred into RL. I don't agree with killing it per se, I guess I would just like if it was at a slower pace (I realise that can't be controlled though).

I don't mean to come across as critical, just giving my 2 cents

Gary ITR

Xavi6 wrote: »

+1

That's why I never post there anymore. More effort than it's worth really.

For example, I logged onto the front page of the site yesterday and saw someone had posted on the thread so I clicked in to it. I was taken to a page some 15 pages away from the latest post! I really could not be arsed clicking through idle chat to find out what the topic of the night is.

If it's more effort than it's worth for you then don't post there. I myself think it is worth the effort and I enjoy posting there. I don't see any problem with the Lair at all, It's far more welcoming than Tom's bar which if it was a real bar I wouldn't even go in to use their toilet tbh.

You wouldn't have to click through pages, why not just read the last 4/5 posts in the thread and you'll be well up to speed.

This feedback thread has ruined the lair with all of this bandwagon hopping, mod bashing and user bashing alike.

@SDooM getting back to your op.... there was nothing wrong with the forum the way it was... it was tipping along quite nicely. If newcomers were intimidated by coming then thats fair enough, either they get over it or they don't. As was previously said this forum is by far the most welcoming of it's type here on boards. And remember the bigger picture, the most important people in this forum are the regular contributors, not the noobs, for they make it what it is

FWIW I think the lair should remain a sticky as it was a credit to the forum and users. How many users have been banned from the noc forum for comments made in the Lair compared to Tom's Bar?

RxQueen

Xavi6 wrote: »

It's a fair point about the hand holding and from my point of view it's something I certainly don't need or expect (unless you're very good Nerin! ). I'm just merely giving the view from the other side of the fence and how a n00b could feel.

The Lair is great in terms of interaction and it's great that people have made friendships there which have transferred into RL. I don't agree with killing it per se, I guess I would just like if it was at a slower pace (I realise that can't be controlled though).

I don't mean to come across as critical, just giving my 2 cents

so people shouldnt post as much is that what your saying , cause frankly thats a load of crap , saying it for the last time , it does welcome everyone, and everybody tries to keep everyone involed, put the effort in and you'll notice the difference, if you're not going to post in there then why you making a big deal about it?

This thread is seriously turning into a mod bashing , and a user bashing of people who "use it " to much, this isnt what Sdoom asked for , he asked for feedback to make the thread better , people come and go in the lair and this fourm the whole time some people stick around others dont simple as its not cause there made feel unwelcome, its cause they dont put in the effort , exact same as the Body Mod fourm where i post alot to.

cHaTbOx

I have made a slow pace thread .If people post in it they will get replies at a slower pace than the Lair.People should have no reason not to get involved now

Nerin

Alot of problems from this thread,but alot of good ideas and constructive feedback. Keep that coming,and try keep it civil folks in my opinion,tom has done a great job with bgrh,try not bash the place

cHaTbOx

This place is a joke :mad:

and a laugh and a giggle : P : D

Gary ITR

Nerin wrote: »

Alot of problems from this thread,but alot of good ideas and constructive feedback. Keep that coming,and try keep it civil folks in my opinion,tom has done a great job with bgrh,try not bash the place

Not bashing it at all Nerin Just defending the Lair from the bashing it has taken

Nerin

random chatbox wrote: »

This place is a joke :mad:

and a laugh and a giggle : P : D

Giggles . I get that onkle,and thank you,just remember,they're like us,they'd be annoyed and hurt to see something they put alot of effort into thrashed.

Doctor DooM

Time for my daily post on the nocturnal feedback topic du jour.

We've done an awful lot to be welcoming. The noob thread, the slow lair, the naming thread. I even de stickied the lair so it's not in people's faces, and I've encouraged people to post in other places. I'll even consider rebooting the lair every time it gets unwieldy. The lair is an important part of the forum and furthermore, if you look to the past, it's the part of the Noc forum most like the forum request thread (oh, those halycion days).

But I am not willing to actively punish regular and commited users by going any further. Yes, we need to make the place more welcoming to new people, and encourage them in here. But I'm not doing it at the expense of people who have given so much to the forum (and our regulars DO give alot to the forum).

One of the users said to me a while back that sometimes we get so obsessed with making the forum welcoming to new people we forget about them once their in the door. Since I heard that, I made it my business not to act, or appear to act, that way.

Also, there's no huge issues in the forum, it's trucking along quite nicely thank you except for the niggles we're dealing with right here and now. Just before I started this thread we were getting between 4-600 posts a day! In fact, traffics picked up since the changes were made, so thanks all for their help.

Xavi6

emo!! wrote: »

so people shouldnt post as much is that what your saying , cause frankly thats a load of crap , saying it for the last time , it does welcome everyone, and everybody tries to keep everyone involed, put the effort in and you'll notice the difference, if you're not going to post in there then why you making a big deal about it?

Jeez why take it so personally? The thread was created for feedback. Just because I don't have 20 posts a day in that thread doesn't mean I don't read the forum. Thaed was in this thread earlier doing the exact same thing.

I said the thread is too fast for me. I'm sure it is for others too (otherwise there would have been no criticism of it). I'm also delighted that you have no problems with its pace. Different strokes and all that. Doesn't mean my opinion should be diminished and laughed off by you calling it 'a load of crap', and I actually find that insulting.

It's not a personal attack, but at the same time I don't think Doom or any of the other mods wanted this to merely be a circle jerk where the conclusion is reached that everything is 100% hunky dory. Clearly there are some problems, even if they only minor, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist.

This thread is seriously turning into a mod bashing , and a user bashing of people who "use it " to much, this isnt what Sdoom asked for , he asked for feedback to make the thread better , people come and go in the lair and this fourm the whole time some people stick around others dont simple as its not cause there made feel unwelcome, its cause they dont put in the effort , exact same as the Body Mod fourm where i post alot to.

The mod bashing I obviously don't agree with but there have been some very valid points raised by various people. That is what a feedback thread is for after all.

As the boards motto goes, you are not your post count. Everyone is entitled to chip in with their bit, and all aren't going to agree.

RxQueen

Xavi6

Jeez why take it so personally? The thread was created for feedback. Just because I don't have 20 posts a day in that thread doesn't mean I don't read the forum. Thaed was in this thread earlier doing the exact same thing.

I'm not taking its personally , im giving my 2 cents , like you were earlier.

I said the thread is too fast for me. I'm sure it is for others too (otherwise there would have been no criticism of it). I'm also delighted that you have no problems with its pace. Different strokes and all that. Doesn't mean my opinion should be diminished and laughed off by you calling it 'a load of crap', and I actually find that insulting.

Im sorry if i insulted you it wasnt intentional , again dont take it so personally:P , i wasnt attacking you , i was giving my thoughts on your post, it wasnt a personal attack , i dont have it in me to be mean.:rolleyes:

It's not a personal attack, but at the same time I don't think Doom or any of the other mods wanted this to merely be a circle jerk where the conclusion is reached that everything is 100% hunky dory. Clearly there are some problems, even if they only minor, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist.

Agreed they are, but centering every problem around the Lair isnt fair, we need new threads, maybe we all should start , starting some new ones -myself included. again heres where the effort comes in.

The mod bashing I obviously don't agree with but there have been some very valid points raised by various people. That is what a feedback thread is for after all.

As the boards motto goes, you are not your post count. Everyone is entitled to chip in with their bit, and all aren't going to agree

.[/QUOTE]

I know, my post count doesnt bother me , i come in here to pass that time , and not just post pointless crap (imo:P) to add to my post count. I'm not saying dont chip in , your qoute is here to be answered just like everyone else and thats what im doing, take offence if you like, i dont mean to offend you.

Alicat

Xavi6 wrote: »

That's all well and good if you know the forum and the people posting but for n00bs or nocturnal first timers it can be intimidating and quite a turn off.

-1 !

I agree with a lot of the other posters. Noobs can't have their hands held the whole time coming into the Lair. If they're not able for it, then they should start off in one of the slower threads, like RC's. That's what they are there for. An awful lot of noobs seem to do a bit of lurking before they make their first post anyway so if after a week of lurking they still can't get up the courage to post something, well ..... :rolleyes:

Not everyone is going to like this forum, that's just life. But for those who like the look of the place they have to put the effort in, as Emo said.

Most people in the Lair are extremely friendly and do try to welcome all the noobs. I don't think slowing everyone else down is going to do the forum any favours. The Nocturnal forum is the one I enjoy posting in the most. Partly due to the fact that it is still busy when the rest of Boards seems to go asleep and I'm still awake, and because miraculously we seem to have avoided attracting any @ssholes, as I see in so many other forums like AH. There's a really good spirit here and if more people want to join in then that's excellent news. For those that don't...well so what? You can't please everyone. They will find another forum that suits them.



Just another 2c!

Whispered

I agree, the lair is usually very welcoming. And I wouldn't consider myself a regular compared to some people who are here all the time. I've rarely felt discouraged to post, or ignored (except for once I made a really REALLY funny joke, but the lair was so fast it got lost before anybody lolled. )

One tiny thing I have noticed is txt spk is not allowed, but sentences like "I is not happy" or "I can has a cookie plz?" are ok? Funny on lolcats, but not very funny when trying to follow a thread.

I'm easily anoyed by accents and people who put the wrong words in the wrong places (like the phrase "them things" drives me mad!) so maybe nobody else noticed this. In which case, just ignore me.

Doctor DooM

helena.ryan wrote: »

I agree, the lair is usually very welcoming. And I wouldn't consider myself a regular compared to some people who are here all the time. I've rarely felt discouraged to post, or ignored (except for once I made a really REALLY funny joke, but the lair was so fast it got lost before anybody lolled. )

One tiny thing I have noticed is txt spk is not allowed, but sentences like "I is not happy" or "I can has a cookie plz?" are ok? Funny on lolcats, but not very funny when trying to follow a thread.

I'm easily anoyed by accents and people who put the wrong words in the wrong places (like the phrase "them things" drives me mad!) so maybe nobody else noticed this. In which case, just ignore me.

I actually quite enjoy some well executed lolspeak, thats a good point, does that annoy other people? Not that we'll be able to get rid of it, I sense Nerin would die in agony before letting anyone ban it

Whispered

SDooM wrote: »

I actually quite enjoy some well executed lolspeak, thats a good point, does that annoy other people? Not that we'll be able to get rid of it, I sense Nerin would die in agony before letting anyone ban it

How about you allow it, but I'm allowed to quote and fix it.

Only joking, as I said, lolspeak, txt spk or the phrase "them things" annoy me more than they do most people. It's my pet hate I suppose.

cHaTbOx

SDooM wrote: »

......................................... Nerin would die in agony before letting anyone ban it

I hate it and think it should be banned ,











i haz to go nows

Whispered

random chatbox wrote: »

I have to go now

FYP

Nerin

helena.ryan wrote: »

How about you allow it, but I'm allowed to quote and fix it.

Only joking, as I said, lolspeak, txt spk or the phrase "them things" annoy me more than they do most people. It's my pet hate I suppose.

Official speak fixer of the nocturnals?

cHaTbOx

Nerin wrote: »

Official spk fixer of the nocturnals?

Fyp:D

orestes

txt speak and lolspeak are two very different things in my opinion. If people were writing full posts all of the time in lolspeak it might be an issue, but as it is right now I don't have a problem with it at all.

Whispered

Helena - official goddess of the lightswitch and spk fxr of the noctournal forum.

Nice ring to it.

JaneyMc

Hi, just thought I would give my 2 cents! I'm more of a lurker than a poster in this forum and having ventured into The Lair a few times, I did find it intimidating. After reading this thread I have come to the conclusion that it's due to the high volume of traffic rather than people being unwelcome. It used to annoy me a bit, but I never really tried as people are pointing out so I may stick my head in when I get a chance and give it a proper bash.

I've gone to 2 nocturnal beers and the majority of people are really nice and welcoming.

Keep on trucking etc.

Doctor DooM

JaneyMc wrote: »

Hi, just thought I would give my 2 cents! I'm more of a lurker than a poster in this forum and having ventured into The Lair a few times, I did find it intimidating. After reading this thread I have come to the conclusion that it's due to the high volume of traffic rather than people being unwelcome. It used to annoy me a bit, but I never really tried as people are pointing out so I may stick my head in when I get a chance and give it a proper bash.

I've gone to 2 nocturnal beers and the majority of people are really nice and welcoming.

Keep on trucking etc.

I'd like to apologise on behalf of the nocturnal forum for any squid jokes.

JaneyMc

I think it was just you, not the nocturnal forum :pac: Honest mistake though. I was just very puzzeled.

Nerin

SDooM wrote: »

I'd like to apologise on behalf of the nocturnal forum for any squid jokes.

Wait,what?:p

JaneyMc

At the nocturnal beers, he kept saying you're the squid!! I did not understand what he was talking about, turns out Janey Babe is The Official Squid of the Nocturnal Forum. Very confusing.

Toto Wolfcastle

JaneyMc wrote: »

At the nocturnal beers, he kept saying you're the squid!! I did not understand what he was talking about, turns out Janey Babe is The Official Squid of the Nocturnal Forum. Very confusing.

I am very confused.

JaneyMc

janeybabe wrote: »

I am very confused.

Sdoom asked me who I was at the nocturnal beers, I told him, and he got me confused with you, and started calling me the squid of the nocturnal forum.

trout

I'm a lurker here ... I find this forum quite fascinating.

I think this here discussion is worthy & noble, and very much to be supported. Personally, I think the vibe here is excellent, for the most part, and the bits that aren't excellent are teased out and worked on by an active core of users & mods alike. Brilliant. A lot has happened in a very short space of time, driven by a lot of people of various ilks (except for the leeches and the lurkers like me)

I am moved to remark on the BGRH bar comparisons.

I'm not liking the BGRH bar comparisons ... feedback on the future of this forum should be given in the context of this forum, and should be driven by experiences here ... not elsewhere. This forum stands on it's own two feet, and should not be measured or defined as a reaction to any other forum. No ?

I don't have to defend BGRH, I truly believe it is a welcoming and open forum; I would respectfully ask people with strongly held opinions on BGRH, such as those posted in this thread, to make those opinons known in the correct forum.

As for my feedback on this forum itself, for what it's worth, I think the interaction here is good. I like the self governing policing/freedom and organic growth of the place and I really like the essentially humble nature of the mods. From what I've seen, people are receptive to criticism, accepting of mistakes and willing to engage and improve at each turn.

It really is a community, fast moving and with associated growing pains ... I think the niggles here are actually good things, in that they are functions of success and growth.

Just my tuppence. Good luck with the forum.

Toto Wolfcastle

JaneyMc wrote: »

Sdoom asked me who I was at the nocturnal beers, I told him, and he got me confused with you, and started calling me the squid of the nocturnal forum.

Lol that's so funny that he remembers the different titles!

Toto Wolfcastle

trout wrote: »

I am moved to remark on the BGRH bar comparisons.

I'm not liking the BGRH bar comparisons ... feedback on the future of this forum should be given in the context of this forum, and should be driven by experiences here ... not elsewhere. This forum stands on it's own two feet, and should not be measured or defined as a reaction to any other forum. No ?

I don't have to defend BGRH, I truly believe it is a welcoming and open forum; I would respectfully ask people with strongly held opinions on BGRH, such as those posted in this thread, to make those opinons known in the correct forum.

For what it's worth I have always felt welcome in the BGRH bar.

Doctor DooM

janeybabe wrote: »

For what it's worth I have always felt welcome in the BGRH bar.

Ditto for me, only brought up bgrh as it's a social forum. I pop in when i feel like it and always feel welcome.

trout

SDooM wrote: »

Ditto for me, only brought up bgrh as it's a social forum. I pop in when i feel like it and always feel welcome.

Your post was fine ... some other posts were not so well judged.

Delirium

Just wanted to add some feedback to this thread. With regards to the lair, personally speaking, I think it is a good thing. It was one of the first threads on boards I wasn't nervous about posting on as a newbie. Every other thread I'd experienced had a clearly defined topic. Everyone was very welcoming, and even though I had posted a bit in other forums, peoples hospitality gave me a bit more confidence about posting more in other forums.

I feel because the lair is a very busy thread at times, it allows for getting to know each other quicker than if there were no random chatter thread.

With regards to it being off putting for newbies, I can remember being wary of posting in nearly every forum, so it is something that can affect any forum.
The introduction and title threads are a nice touch to welcome new people to the forum.

Overall, I'd like to say great job to the mods and users alike for making the forum such a fun place for me to post in.:D