Attitude Era Nostalgia

Red Sleeping Beauty

The Rock was overrated anyway. He never got over with me, save for that I Quit match.

rovert

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

The Rock was overrated anyway. He never got over with me, save for that I Quit match.

DONT FEED THE TROLL

ShawnRaven

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Yeah, they dropped the ball with Kane after WrestleMania although McMahon trying to get him sanctioned during Royal Rumble was pretty stupid too!

I'm saying nothing here, if you go through your boards history, you'll know that it's almost impossible to discuss Kane without starting (or participating in) a war.

I agree Big Show is utterly dreadful. I remember that the contract he signed in 1999 was a ten year deal, will that be up next year or was there a new one signed at some point ?

I'd say WWE will keep him unless he wants to retire. Mizark Hizenry was signed to a 10 year deal too in August 1996 (i believe), and he got a short term contract signed in January 06 when it was almost expired.

1999 wasn't a total stinker though, as you said started off great with Royal Rumble, Valentine's Day Massacre was pretty damn good too. WrestleMania was poor, Rock just didn't look comfortable in the role. Fully Loaded was really good. Rock and Trips strap match was enjoyable, First Blood match was exciting for a match that usually consists of everyone waiting for match to hurry and get to the finish. The undercard was ok too. That year's SummerSlam wasn't that good, Unforgiven was good. The 6pack challenge was deadly. No Mercy was brilliant I thought. The Austin/HHH match was one of their best.

Valentines Day Massacre was horribly over-rated. Was Vince/Austin a good match? Of course it was. But there was precious little memorable on that card. Other than Al Snow falling into a pond during the hardcore match. Abysmal stuff.

Things started getting better in 99 at No Mercy. Although Summerslam was decent that year. The triple threat main event was decent enough. Shane v Test was actually amazing considering Test was learning not to suck, something Shane never really managed to do other than being a one sick bump spotmunky. The 6 pack challenge was terrible, call a spade a spade here, and Bulldog had no right being in a main event role in the condition he was in at the time.

Hey I liked the Austin/Rikishi squash match spot. It was a tough heel turn in fairness.

Invest in a wrestlecrap compilation! Sounds like it's made just for you!

ShawnRaven

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

The Rock was overrated anyway. He never got over with me, save for that I Quit match.

I agree, he got over with his mic skill, but his in ring work was far from specatacular.

But then, Hogan made billions using the same tactics. Needless to say he lost em in the end.

ShawnRaven

ShawnRaven wrote: »

How the HELL did you forget about that atrocity of a story? It nearly sank the credibility of the Rock (as if he didn't have a tough enough time trying to make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t in Billy Gunn the previous year) as a main event carrier!

I don't know lol. I think apart from that story line the rest of the year was great! Backlash 2000 was probably my favourite ppv of that year.

rovert

ShawnRaven wrote: »

I agree, he got over with his mic skill, but his in ring work was far from specatacular.

He didnt need to be he was one of the greatest the WWE bump and feed style.

Red Sleeping Beauty

rovert wrote: »

DONT FEED THE TROLL

Haha, em ok sorry I'lll leave it at that! Remember the "Radicalz" gimmick that Benoit,Saturn,Malenko and Guerrero were bundled with ? McMahon must've been desperate for some established talent fast. Royal Rumble was pretty weak I thought. The Rumble match was lousy, might as well just have had a triple threat, the Street fight was great obviously. Tables match was fun though.

rovert

What is

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Haha, em ok sorry I'lll leave it at that! Remember the "Radicalz" gimmick that Benoit,Saturn,Malenko and Guerrero were bundled with ? McMahon must've been desperate for some established talent fast. Royal Rumble was pretty weak I thought. The Rumble match was lousy, might as well just have had a triple threat, the Street fight was great obviously. Tables match was fun though.

Meant to do with that:

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

The Rock was overrated anyway. He never got over with me, save for that I Quit match.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Sorry man, I'm all over the place... too much coffee! I'm going to bed

rovert

ShawnRaven wrote: »

... STICKING A FAT TALENTLESS SAMOAN GUY IN A MAIN EVENT DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE!

:mad:

Return of the Loser Leaves Town Podcast 10/29/08 w/ Rob Naylor on SAMOANS! and other Pacific Islanders
After a fricking year, the show is back in style as Rob Naylor joins me to discuss wrestlers from Samoa and other Pacific Islands for over TWO HOURS! Yes. Consider it two shows or something. Naylor thought two hours or less would be too short for a topic like this.

The usual fun with Naylor includes the two of us doing a reading of a legendary Jimmy Snuka promo, why Tama was so awesome, Samoan farmers, and the usual tangents that stray far from the topic. A good show full of wacky Naylor fun.

http://www.loserleavestown.net/?p=24

Cant wait to listen to this. Naylor's awesomeness cancels out Bix's snobishness.

ShawnRaven

rovert wrote: »

:mad:

You still wanna f*ckin strangle me, don't you?

rovert

ShawnRaven wrote: »

You still wanna f*ckin strangle me, don't you?

More than Bix at this stage.

ShawnRaven

rovert wrote: »

More than Bix at this stage.

How can you actually justify Rikishi?, as he sucked as Fatu, he sucked as The Sultan, he sucked as Rikishi!
(did i miss any more of his aborted character changes?)

rovert

ShawnRaven wrote: »

How can you actually justify Rikishi?, as he sucked as Fatu, he sucked as The Sultan, he sucked as Rikishi!
(did i miss any more of his aborted character changes?)

Not a big fan but he wasnt talentless.

ShawnRaven

rovert wrote: »

Not a big fan but he wasnt talentless.

He could dance, but he wasn't far off otherwise.

Red Sleeping Beauty

ShawnRaven wrote: »

How can you actually justify Rikishi?, as he sucked as Fatu, he sucked as The Sultan, he sucked as Rikishi!
(did i miss any more of his aborted character changes?)

Well there was his Head Shrinker Fatu and then his ""Make a Difference" Fatu

Vince135792003

I always liked the Head Shrinkers as a team.

ShawnRaven

Vince135792003 wrote: »

I always liked the Head Shrinkers as a team.

Actually, i admit i was partial to these guys as well, shame they only lasted two years, seemed they were around a lot longer. But that Makin' A Difference Fatu was a great idea, done completely the wrong way.

Stay away from drugs kids... lol, if we knew then what we know now!

Red Sleeping Beauty

Tag wrestling varied a great deal back then. Shawn and Diesel seemed like a good team but they never really had many matches and I don't think they'd any PPV matches as champs except from the Survivor Series 94. Smoking Gunns were dreadful, Owen and Yoko were ok. I liked when the tag belts were used in conjunction with the main title a few times - Austin/Taker 98 and Austin/HHH in 2001

ShawnRaven

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Tag wrestling varied a great deal back then. Shawn and Diesel seemed like a good team but they never really had many matches and I don't think they'd any PPV matches as champs except from the Survivor Series 94. Smoking Gunns were dreadful, Owen and Yoko were ok. I liked when the tag belts were used in conjunction with the main title a few times - Austin/Taker 98 and Austin/HHH in 2001

If you wanna talk tag, then you gotta be talking between 87-90! The time frame where the division was so extensive that it really could have done with a second set of tag belts. You had Demolition, British Bulldogs, Young Stallions, Killer Bees, Powers Of Pain, Volkoff and Iron Sheik/Bolshevics, Can Am Connection/Strike Force, The Rougeaus, The Islanders, The Dream Team, The Hart Foundation and The Rockers. A plethora of teams.

Yep, that timeframe was a tag fan's proverbial wet dream.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Do you mind me asking what age you are Shawn ? I was too young at the time to remember the late 80's scene but I've seen all the PPVs. There were a lot of big men with muscles teams.

ShawnRaven

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Do you mind me asking what age you are Shawn ? I was too young at the time to remember the late 80's scene but I've seen all the PPVs. There were a lot of big men with muscles teams.

I'm old!
Let's just say i started watching WWE when Cablelink (pre NTL) introduced it via analogue 1986! Age isn't an excuse anyway, as you said, you've seen all the PPVs You'd have caught the first 2 Survivor Series with the 20 man tag matches.

Red Sleeping Beauty

My earliest WWF memories are from maybe 1991 ? I remember when WCW was on UTV/ITV , can't remember when though.

ShawnRaven

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

My earliest WWF memories are from maybe 1991 ? I remember when WCW was on UTV/ITV , can't remember when though.

You missed a lot of good stuff. I got my hands on Superstars 87-92 last year to refresh my noggin. But 91 was horrible. the amount of talent cuts from late 90 to mid 91 was insane. All the classic era were going. Beefcake was gone, Rude was gone, Hogan was on his way, Warrior was gone, Andre was gone.

Was fairly rough to watch as a teenager.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Oh right, well my teenage years started just as the Attitude era started so that was perfect timing! I remember the first few mentions of the term attitude in early 1997 , I was shocked when Sid beat Shawn the way he did (I was a big HBK fan at 12years old! ) then when Bret was getting screwed and Austin rising up, it all came to a head with the Submission match which I didn't actually get to see for another 18months . I did see the promo Hart cut the night after, that was a great spot.

ShawnRaven

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Oh right, well my teenage years started just as the Attitude era started so that was perfect timing! I remember the first few mentions of the term attitude in early 1997 , I was shocked when Sid beat Shawn the way he did (I was a big HBK fan at 12years old! ) then when Bret was getting screwed and Austin rising up, it all came to a head with the Submission match which I didn't actually get to see for another 18months . I did see the promo Hart cut the night after, that was a great spot.

Hah, the worst place Shawn could have been at Survivor Series 96, in New York City, the city where being a babyface mean you're the f*cking antichrist. And Sid was their god that night. It was horribly planned as they were turning Shawn heel, only to cop on then that the Royal Rumble was on in San Antonio two months later.

I always thought the double turn at Mania 13 was overrated. The moment was awesome, but the match sucked by comparison to the one they had at Survivor Series the previous year.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Did you think it was overrated at the time ? Or in hindisight do you think it's overrated ? There hadn't been anything that violent from the WWF in years. I think Hart/Bulldog at IYH 5 was the last time someone juiced. Before that I think it was WM 8 ?

ShawnRaven

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Did you think it was overrated at the time ? Or in hindisight do you think it's overrated ? There hadn't been anything that violent from the WWF in years. I think Hart/Bulldog at IYH 5 was the last time someone juiced. Before that I think it was WM 8 ?

Hindsight i think the match is overrated. A load of juice doesn't make a match to me, and i've seen the original Wargames matches!

Wrestlemania 8 was a f*ckup for juice jobs. Bret got busted open from a botched Bulldog and had to spend some time convincing Vince that it was an accident, which he did successfully. Flair got heavily fined not just for blading, but for doing it on front of the camera. Blading was a big no-no in 1992.

Red Sleeping Beauty

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Hindsight i think the match is overrated. A load of juice doesn't make a match to me, and i've seen the original Wargames matches!

Wrestlemania 8 was a f*ckup for juice jobs. Bret got busted open from a botched Bulldog and had to spend some time convincing Vince that it was an accident, which he did successfully. Flair got heavily fined not just for blading, but for doing it on front of the camera. Blading was a big no-no in 1992.

I don't think I'd seen a blood match up to that point. Maybe the odd one from an earlier WM but nothing that would register high on the Muta scale. Blood doesn't make a match of course but I think the Submission match used it very well, it worked for the match and the storyline. It had a touch of MMA with the stoppage and Shamrock which was probably the only time that looked good (mixing MMA with wrestling that is). WWE have overused or rather misused blood in the last few years. Well, triple H has!

Talk to me more about WM 8... Did Bret legitimately get cut ? And did Flair just decide to blade without clearing it with Vince ?


On a side note I've only seen about 2 War Games

ShawnRaven

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Talk to me more about WM 8... Did Bret legitimately get cut ? And did Flair just decide to blade without clearing it with Vince ?

Not more to say on Bret, he suffered a botched Bulldog and his nose was busted. It's evident by the footage too. Even on the commentary, Heenan covers up for Monsoons incorrect commentary.

With Flair, he'd done several blade jobs in NWA, it was almost a given that he bladed in all his main matches and assumed that it was alright to do the same with the opposition. Needless to say, Vinny Mac wasn't happy.

Vince135792003

Wrestling matches or anything really have to be viewed in the context of when they actually occurred in terms of rating objectively them I think.

In other words Bret/Austin put on a classic match for that time period and some people think it holds up today (I do) and some people might think it does n't but for when the match actually occurred, there's no doubting it was a great match.

For example Bobby Moores performance in the 1970 world cup against Pelé mightn't seem all that good today. But for it's time, it was a great performance.

The Towering Inferno in terms of cinematography may look poor today. Again though at the time it was top notch.

I know wrestling is different to film or sports performances in that arguably some might think that wrestling has regressed. All the same though, I think you need to put the match in the context of when it occurred to objectively rate it rather than looking at it in hindsight.

Another example is the Montreal Screwjob. Talking about it in a 2008 wrestling context is a million miles a way to what wrestling was like when it actually happened.

Red Sleeping Beauty

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Not more to say on Bret, he suffered a botched Bulldog and his nose was busted. It's evident by the footage too. Even on the commentary, Heenan covers up for Monsoons incorrect commentary.



With Flair, he'd done several blade jobs in NWA, it was almost a given that he bladed in all his main matches and assumed that it was alright to do the same with the opposition. Needless to say, Vinny Mac wasn't happy.

Are there any matches that you think the use of blood helped ? It was overused in ECW. I can't say for certain and I'm going out on a limb here but am I right in thinking that in the mid 90's WCW wrestlers never bladed ? I think I had one of them old Warner Bros. best of WCW tapes with some War Games matches and it was used then but from memory* I don't think WCW ever really had much violence

*Memory is mainly served from said "best of" tapes and Powerslam magazines.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Vince135792003 wrote: »

Another example is the Montreal Screwjob. Talking about it in a 2008 wrestling context is a million miles a way to what wrestling was like when it actually happened.

I loved that match at the time, I had no clue what had happened or why Bret suddenly left. I was confused as to why Jim Ross was talking about it being his last match. I still like the match, mind you I've not watched a full PPV so I sort of see the older days through rose tinted glasses

Vince135792003

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Not more to say on Bret, he suffered a botched Bulldog and his nose was busted. .

That's not what his book says. He said he planned it. See page 285-286 of his book.

flahavaj

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Are there any matches that you think the use of blood helped ? It was overused in ECW. I can't say for certain and I'm going out on a limb here but am I right in thinking that in the mid 90's WCW wrestlers never bladed ? I think I had one of them old Warner Bros. best of WCW tapes with some War Games matches and it was used then but from memory* I don't think WCW ever really had much violence

*Memory is mainly served from said "best of" tapes and Powerslam magazines.

I've been watching a comp lately actually containing some of the bloodiest matches in history. The old Sgt Slaughter Vs Pat Patterso match had a serious bladejob. Flair of course at Mania Vs Savage. The Muta/Hase match is still up there. Eddie nicked a serious gusher in the match Vs JBL at Jedgement Day 04 against JBL. Vince's Vs Hogan at mania was memorable. Moire recently, on the Indies Necro Butcher and Jay Briscoe pissed blood in their matches against Samoa Joe. Jericho bled like a stuck pig in Smokey Mountain tagging with Lance Storm against the Heavenly Bodies (this is nin his book).

ShawnRaven

Vince135792003 wrote: »

That's not what his book says. He said he planned it. See page 285-286 of his book.

I'm almost there, he denied that he planned it in his shoot interview in 2000?

ShawnRaven

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Are there any matches that you think the use of blood helped ? It was overused in ECW. I can't say for certain and I'm going out on a limb here but am I right in thinking that in the mid 90's WCW wrestlers never bladed ? I think I had one of them old Warner Bros. best of WCW tapes with some War Games matches and it was used then but from memory* I don't think WCW ever really had much violence

*Memory is mainly served from said "best of" tapes and Powerslam magazines.

NWA did have a lot of violence though, pre WCW. All you have to do is watch the Piper/Valentine match and Race/Flair from Starrcade 83.

Do i think blood helps matches, no i don't. I think it's used as a cop out when the match isn't particularly spectacular. Shawn's blading in the first hell in the cell didn't help the match, the match didn't need help. That's just one example out of many I could use.

Anyway i'm out for a while folks.

Vince135792003

ShawnRaven wrote: »

I'm almost there, he denied that he planned it in his shoot interview in 2000?

Page 285:

We were going to go against Vince's policy just this once. I was going to get a little juice our babyface match desperately needed it if we were going to steal the show.

And further on:

I'd have to be a real pro to make the blood look accidental.

Red Sleeping Beauty

ShawnRaven wrote: »

I'm almost there, he denied that he planned it in his shoot interview in 2000?

Someone should've asked him at one of the AWR shows :pac:

flahavaj wrote: »

I've been watching a comp lately actually containing some of the bloodiest matches in history. The old Sgt Slaughter Vs Pat Patterso match had a serious bladejob. Flair of course at Mania Vs Savage. The Muta/Hase match is still up there. Eddie nicked a serious gusher in the match Vs JBL at Jedgement Day 04 against JBL. Vince's Vs Hogan at mania was memorable. Moire recently, on the Indies Necro Butcher and Jay Briscoe pissed blood in their matches against Samoa Joe. Jericho bled like a stuck pig in Smokey Mountain tagging with Lance Storm against the Heavenly Bodies (this is nin his book).

Where's this comp ?

ShawnRaven

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Someone should've asked him at one of the AWR shows :pac:

I had initially intended to, but it slipped my mind when i was at the WM book signing.[/QUOTE]

reanimator

Blood is the stupidest thing in wrestling, especially the way they do it.(unless you have Christian around to smack you full force with the ring bell)
Youd have to be quite dumb to think that being hit by a chair like Eddie by JBL would cause you to piss blood like that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymfU0LO5SQ0

dude nearly cut his brain out!

rovert

reanimator wrote: »

Blood is the stupidest thing in wrestling

Unprotected chairshots are.

Machismo Fan

rovert wrote: »

Unprotected chairshots are.

Couldn't agree more.

rovert

Eddy's massive blood loss had more to do with the medication he was taking thinning his blood than the depth of the gig mark itself.

Red Sleeping Beauty

What medication was he on ?

rovert

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

What medication was he on ?

For his heart and pain pills.

I don’t know if he was on the wagon with his drinking. As his sobriety during that time period is a touchy and semantic arguement. Eddy admitted he was slipping under the pressure of being Champion.

Red Sleeping Beauty

rovert wrote: »

For his heart and pain pills.

Do you know what medication he was on for his heart ?

rovert

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Do you know what medication he was on for his heart ?

I dont know.

Red Sleeping Beauty

I think I read that Flair used to take aspirin for days before a match to reduce the clotting power in his blood and thus bleed more.

http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/articles/article.aspx?articleId=2490

"Warfarin can be used to prevent blood clots in other parts of the body if you are at an increased risk.

For example, if you have rheumatic heart disease, atrial fibrillation or after insertion of prosthetic (artificial) heart valves."

If you're on warfarin you need regular blood tests to check your INR level which measures the blood's clotting power. With "thin" blood you're also at a greater risk of internal bleeding and bruising.

Anyway, just saying that's it can be a bit dodgey letting your INR level go too low, as in reudcing your clotting power too much. But sure hey it put JBL over didn't it ? Didn't it ?

rovert

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

I think I read that Flair used to take aspirin for days before a match to reduce the clotting power in his blood and thus bleed more.

Taking both aspirin and alcohol is the traditional way.