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You are Biffo, where do you make the cuts???

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    md23040 wrote: »
    Why are so many posters wanting to put up the price of petrol/diesel?

    1. Don't you think motorists a taxed enough already with car tax, vrt and excise, vat, duty on fuel compared to what's given back.
    2. Do you really think that oil will remain low. It'll go so through the roof in the medium term, that the $120 range will have looked great value.

    If it costs €3/l you'll walk to the shop instead of driving and take the bus more often.

    This move also scraps scaled motor tax in favour of a flat rate of a fiver.

    Also
    ninty9er wrote: »

    VRT would be seriously rebalanced....no revenue- neutral measures....Irish people like to go places in their cars.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    A ten cent tax per minute on bitching, moaning and begrudgery.. We'd be lending money to Dubai after 3 months...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    A ten cent tax per minute on bitching, moaning and begrudgery.. We'd be lending money to Dubai after 3 months...

    Hey you're right. Cowen's idea of spending record amounts of tax money every year as if they were normal and sustainable and no way was that amount of money ever going to disappear was the way to go.

    Who could have foreseen trouble ahead?

    Only everybody. (Except rabid FFer's and desperate first time buyers)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,845 ✭✭✭2Scoops


    Reining in the salaries for government officials and advisors would be step one. It's out of control and it's not attracting a better class of politician - it's still the same old heads, in it for the money. And president of Ireland getting over 300 thousand a year? Gimme a break...

    Step 2 would be slashing the arts budget by 90%, including RTE. We're a nation of philistines, may as well save the money. Stop all state-sponsored art commissions. Eliminate tax exemption for any artist making more 20,000 a year.

    Those are easy ones. The rest is a balancing act that would require a working knowledge of economics, something sadly lacking in our current generation of politicos.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭luckat


    Here's a hint - from today's Indo:

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hse-pays--thousands-extra-to-top-advisers-additional-fees-of-83641367-a-day-to-spark-fury-as-cutbacks-bite-1511219.html

    Extract:
    But as Taoiseach Brian Cowen desperately seeks to limit the political fallout from the fiasco, new figures reveal health authorities have forked out almost half this figure -- €46m in total -- over the past three years to private advisers.

    An investigation by the Irish Independent reveals members of health chief Brendan Drumm's kitchen cabinet have been paid tens of thousands of euro more than allowed for under the terms of their lucrative contracts.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    ninty9er wrote: »
    35c on petrol, 40c on diesel.

    Errr you do realise that this will effect transport prices (public and private), haulage cost, and ultimately anything that has to be delivered will be hiked up in price dramatically to cover this increase in cost.

    It is extremely naive and ill thought out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 438 ✭✭podge79


    John J wrote: »







    Transport
    • Immediate termination of the "Western Rail Corridor" project.
    • Private competition on Dublin bus services.
    • Prioritisation of Dublin Metro and Interconnector - financed by government borrowing.
    • Restriction of funding to "secondary" rail routes which are slow, inefficient and a drain on public money (Sligo, Westport, Rosslare etc). Increased investment in bus services on these routes.

    [/LIST]


    ah yes lets continue with the Dublin-centric mindset.... why not terminate the metro and interconnector projects? and spend the money earmarked for these projects to other services? encourage people to move out of the capital?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    gandalf wrote: »
    Errr you do realise that this will effect transport prices (public and private), haulage cost, and ultimately anything that has to be delivered will be hiked up in price dramatically to cover this increase in cost.

    It is extremely naive and ill thought out.

    There are very few heavy haulage contracts that could not be delivered by a freight train. You're also assuming that the haulage industry wouldn't claim back the VAT or have sweet deals with suppliers. in effect they'd end up paying more, but it would still be a lot less than you or I would have to fork out. I know what I'm talking about on that one. Have family in that business;)

    Haulage is also a large contributor to congestion and the more of it that can be done in a non road manner the better. It would also encourage the use of non-fossil solutions.

    When there isn't a problem nobody will strive to improve, but whe the problem occurs (i.e a significant hike in cost) you can be sure the creativity will know no bounds.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    podge79 wrote: »
    ah yes lets continue with the Dublin-centric mindset.... why not terminate the metro and interconnector projects? and spend the money earmarked for these projects to other services? encourage people to move out of the capital?


    I'd continue with all those projects. Also delay all road projects between the 7 cities until CPOs can be processed to build 3 laners on all IC routes, with high speed rail alternatives running alongside.

    The aim of public transport isn't to be profitable!


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    Amazed no-one's mentioned it but means test Children's Allowance. People who dont need social benefits shouldnt be getting them.
    Scrap Car tax and up tax on petrol and diesel this way people who use the roads more pay more and you could cut jobs in the public sector as no one would need to keep checks on who is and isnt paying car tax. Though this may be unworkable as people would drive up north for petrol.
    End any foreign aid. If the people want to give money to charity leave it at their discretion, there's plenty of charities out there.
    Get tougher with asylum seekers. Im not going to touch the "fabled free" wheelchairs etc., rather ask how someone who's live was in danger in their home country, for example Nigeria, had to travel so far north and west till they felt safe. Being in danger doesnt mean you get a choice of countries to move to. Surely thy could have stopped in France, Egypt, Spain, Chad, Libya, Algeria, Spain, Portugal, heck even England are all closer.
    Chuck this builders bailout or else make the money available to buy any property.
    Up the higher tax by 3%.
    (Outside the budget) Re-negotiate National wage agreement so its done by cents per hour not percentages. This will stop an increasing gulf between classes. 10% of 20000 per annum is 2000. 10% of 100000 is 10000. The ones that dont need it get more!
    1% levy extra on all wages over €100k.

    Many of the ideas before me sound good too. Id be of the idea that we need to be able to spend our way out of a recession not tax people to the hilt.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,518 ✭✭✭✭dsmythy


    Cut the overseas development aid in half. That's 400 mills for you. That commitment was made in a different time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    ninty9er wrote: »
    There are very few heavy haulage contracts that could not be delivered by a freight train. You're also assuming that the haulage industry wouldn't claim back the VAT or have sweet deals with suppliers. in effect they'd end up paying more, but it would still be a lot less than you or I would have to fork out. I know what I'm talking about on that one. Have family in that business;)

    Except that all that freight would need to be shipped to and from the rail stations which our present stations would be unable to deal with (logistically) if you moved most of those haulage contracts onto the rails, necessitating a large and expensive expansion of our station system to deal with the much increased volume which would have to come first.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    dsmythy wrote: »
    Cut the overseas development aid in half. That's 400 mills for you. That commitment was made in a different time.

    It's still GDP linked at .56% as opposed to the .7% committment, so that budget will decrease with any contraction in the economy anyway. Given the programmes that it's used for (i.e it being one of the few REAL value for money sectors), I see no issue in continuing or expanding it.

    It also provides real opportunities for overseas expansion of indigenous firms with favourable conditions.
    nesf wrote: »
    Except that all that freight would need to be shipped to and from the rail stations which our present stations would be unable to deal with (logistically) if you moved most of those haulage contracts onto the rails, necessitating a large and expensive expansion of our station system to deal with the much increased volume which would have to come first.

    Smaller stations exist, they're just disused or underutilised in the main.

    There's places where it won't be viable, sure, but still, 50 Merc Sprinters on local roads is better than God knows how many hundred Arctics running the length of the country every day.

    I'm aware there are provisions necessary, but as I say. All motorway routes to be complimented by rail...to give a REAL altenrative to the car etc.

    Infraastructure is one plce my budget doesn't skimp, I may even have used the phrase "however much it takes" at some stage. Expansion can include commuter services outside the D24 Radius.

    I'm not backing down to the hauliers!! They can up their prices if they have an issue, or they can go bio, making it cost efficient and removing the need for state subsidies > can put duty on that too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    John J wrote: »
    Where do we start?? Just to throw a few ideas out there...

    Transport
    • Incentives for the public to use public transport. Removal of "stealth taxes" on parking at train stations. Reduction in cost of public transport fares. School bus fares will decrease, rather than increase.
    • Immediate termination of the "Western Rail Corridor" project.
    • Investment in quality bus corridors for regional cities. The service itself will be contracted out to private companies with a history of providing world-class service.
    • Private competition on Dublin bus services.
    • Prioritisation of Dublin Metro and Interconnector - financed by government borrowing.
    • Completion of all planned Inter-Urban road routes - financed by government borrowing.
    • Restriction of funding to "secondary" rail routes which are slow, inefficient and a drain on public money (Sligo, Westport, Rosslare etc). Increased investment in bus services on these routes.

    Obviously you have never taken a long bus journey in Ireland :rolleyes:

    Why should everything be about Dublin?
    That is the problem with this country, why we have an urban sprawl emminating from the capital and why we have soon to be really f**** up commutter towns ?
    As regards rest of ideas in your post I would probably agree with.
    ninty9er wrote: »
    If it costs €3/l you'll walk to the shop instead of driving and take the bus more often.

    This move also scraps scaled motor tax in favour of a flat rate of a fiver.

    Obviously you don't live in the country where the local shop and post office, sorry sure the FF/PDs got rid of those and the local Garda barracks, is a distance of 8/10 miles and there ain't no bus service :rolleyes:
    gandalf wrote: »
    Errr you do realise that this will effect transport prices (public and private), haulage cost, and ultimately anything that has to be delivered will be hiked up in price dramatically to cover this increase in cost.

    It is extremely naive and ill thought out.

    But Gandalf that is the way the FF - Builders party works. Come up with policies while in the bar, in the jacks, you name it.
    Rememebr the learner driver idea :D
    ninty9er wrote: »
    There are very few heavy haulage contracts that could not be delivered by a freight train. You're also assuming that the haulage industry wouldn't claim back the VAT or have sweet deals with suppliers. in effect they'd end up paying more, but it would still be a lot less than you or I would have to fork out. I know what I'm talking about on that one. Have family in that business;)

    Haulage is also a large contributor to congestion and the more of it that can be done in a non road manner the better. It would also encourage the use of non-fossil solutions.

    When there isn't a problem nobody will strive to improve, but whe the problem occurs (i.e a significant hike in cost) you can be sure the creativity will know no bounds.

    Again 99er where do you live, Limerick isn't it, which does have a semi decent rail service (granted Limerick junciton is a joke) ?
    Take the west of Ireland as an example.
    There are rail routes into Galway city and no further.
    How do you deliver to Cliften, Carrowroe, Oughterard etc ?
    There is a rail route to Westport, Castlebar and Ballina be it a poor one.
    These stations could not handle the level of freight and then how do you cover the rest of the county ?
    Why would I pay for haulier to carry goods to Castlebar, have to wait for day to get it shipped to Dubliin, then wait for another day to get it shipped within Dublin, when I could get haulier to take it whole way to Dublin in one day ?
    We are talking about CIE here.

    You seem to think the increase in haulage costs would be borne by the haulier, the supplier or the seller :rolleyes:
    You never heard about how the cost is passed onto the consumer ?

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    jmayo wrote: »
    Obviously you don't live in the country where the local shop and post office, sorry sure the FF/PDs got rid of those and the local Garda barracks, is a distance of 8/10 miles and there ain't no bus service :rolleyes:
    Not since a company vehicle was withdrawn from my dad's job package 12 years ago. We had to move after that.

    Is there no shop on your way to/from work?? that you could use rather than going home and making a trip back? Increased costs would make people think about these things. The initial outlay on a basic car would however be severely reduced.
    jmayo wrote: »
    But Gandalf that is the way the FF - Builders party works. Come up with policies while in the bar, in the jacks, you name it.
    Rememebr the learner driver idea :D
    Sitting in a Tax lecture even:rolleyes:
    jmayo wrote: »
    Again 99er where do you live, Limerick isn't it, which does have a semi decent rail service (granted Limerick junciton is a joke) ?
    Take the west of Ireland as an example.
    There are rail routes into Galway city and no further.
    How do you deliver to Cliften, Carrowroe, Oughterard etc ?
    There is a rail route to Westport, Castlebar and Ballina be it a poor one.
    These stations could not handle the level of freight and then how do you cover the rest of the county ?
    Why would I pay for haulier to carry goods to Castlebar, have to wait for day to get it shipped to Dubliin, then wait for another day to get it shipped within Dublin, when I could get haulier to take it whole way to Dublin in one day ?
    We are talking about CIE here.
    I have no commuter rail available to me and no bus service without walking a mile and a bit to town. I'd at least like something inbound to pass by the pointless bus stop at the end of the road.

    Again...there is provision for this in the original post
    jmayo wrote: »
    You seem to think the increase in haulage costs would be borne by the haulier, the supplier or the seller :rolleyes:
    You never heard about how the cost is passed onto the consumer ?

    "I'm not backing down to the hauliers!! They can up their prices if they have an issue, or they can go bio, making it cost efficient and removing the need for state subsidies > can put duty on that too. "


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭Irlbo


    Immigration,tighten the reigns or put a halt to this completely,Im convinced that the huge influx in foreigners has contributed greatly to our faultering economy,I am a firm believer that we should look after our own before we should look after others,let other countries solve their own problems,Speaking about looking after our own,we should look after our own who are hard working and of benefit to society,there should be a stop to providing those within society benefit,who clearly dont deserve it,single mothers,dole spongers etc,Obviously there are some legitimate cases,but strict means tests and intimate interviews should be done to seperate the legitimate at risk hard cases and the spongers who Id say are the vast majority,Why should unmarried mothers recieve ample monies,rent allowance,clothing allowing,tax free liberties,etc etc just because they have a child,And people who refuse to work and claim money they dont deserve at our expense,Ex and current drug addicts who get free access to buses just because they stuck a needle in their arm,We need to stop providing to those who do not offer anything to the economy and society and hinder it and start looking after the hardworking who keep the economy going


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    Irlbo wrote: »
    Immigration,tighten the reigns or put a halt to this completely,Im convinced that the huge influx in foreigners has contributed greatly to our faultering economy,I am a firm believer that we should look after our own before we should look after others,let other countries solve their own problems,
    For the most part immigrants work, pay tax, and contribute to the economy. Many are now leaving but if they had not come here public finances would be in an even worse state than they are now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,518 ✭✭✭✭dsmythy


    SkepticOne wrote: »
    For the most part immigrants work, pay tax, and contribute to the economy. Many are now leaving but if they had not come here public finances would be in an even worse state than they are now.

    Helped make our property bubble even bigger than it should of been too. Maybe without the means we would of gone on a more steadier growth rate without letting builders and speculators get fat on cheap labour to let it explode like it did.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,373 ✭✭✭Executive Steve


    put the army on ebay - all of it apart from the army band and the equitation unit and enough uniforms to supply a small guard of honour to visiting monarchs etc. no need for any of it in a civilised country anyway, just a waste of money spending millions on teaching reactionary knuckleheads to be violent degenerates. they can join the private sector and since they're always banging on about how well the army trains you for practicing trades on civvy street they won't need much of a severance pay.

    saving:

    The military budget was €1.005 Billion in 2007 (estimated). (source: wikipedia - i know!)

    Between all their toys and real estate they're probably sitting on a hell of a lot more too - trucks, helicopters, armoured cars, they have six aeroplanes too.

    The Irish Navy / Coastguard would be maintained of course, for Smuggling Interdiction / Search and Rescue missions etc.

    Axe RTÉ entirely and replace it with a Dutch inspired system where only the news and editorial departments are state-funded. Everything else can pay it's own way.

    travelling politicians travel economy class and get holiday inn vouchers

    link TD pay to an absolute maximum (including taxable benefits) of three times the average industrial wage


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Irlbo wrote: »
    Immigration,tighten the reigns or put a halt to this completely,Im convinced that the huge influx in foreigners has contributed greatly to our faultering economy,I am a firm believer that we should look after our own before we should look after others,let other countries solve their own problems,Speaking about looking after our own,we should look after our own who are hard working and of benefit to society,there should be a stop to providing those within society benefit,who clearly dont deserve it,single mothers,dole spongers etc,Obviously there are some legitimate cases,but strict means tests and intimate interviews should be done to seperate the legitimate at risk hard cases and the spongers who Id say are the vast majority,Why should unmarried mothers recieve ample monies,rent allowance,clothing allowing,tax free liberties,etc etc just because they have a child,And people who refuse to work and claim money they dont deserve at our expense,Ex and current drug addicts who get free access to buses just because they stuck a needle in their arm,We need to stop providing to those who do not offer anything to the economy and society and hinder it and start looking after the hardworking who keep the economy going

    Yeah let us all join the national front party :rolleyes:
    Bad bad immigrants, like the Irish were never immigrants anytime anywhere?
    BTW some of your ideas do strike me as something the NAZIs would espouse :eek:

    Have you ever heard of spaces, fullstops, etc ?
    I agree with some of your points but is very hard to read even the parts that do make sense.

    I am not allowed discuss …



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    dsmythy wrote: »
    Helped make our property bubble even bigger than it should of been too.
    Sure there was an increase in population due to inward immigration but building output at up to 90,000 a year far exceeded anything that could be accounted for by immigrants.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Then put all solicitors/ barristers up against a wall and shoot them, it might not do much for the economy but it could be helpful.

    And to hell with the Garda that died yeah? After all what do the Gardai contribute to our society as a whole!? :rolleyes:
    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Here's one for ya...

    When I was in uni, apparently the pass rate for first year was 45%. So 100 folks start first year and 55 of them drop out after year one.

    The way I think free fee's should work, is like this.... You pay your college fee's directly to the college. If you pass, you get them refunded from the Dept. of Education, if you fail, you don't... Very simple solution to a very simple problem. From what I remember, you had people in college who worked and then you had people who spent their grant money on beer in the SU. You can't be fairer than that...

    That assumes that people can afford the fees up front. The one thing we need to do, IMO, is keep "free" third-level education as-is. One of the things that makes us attractive to foreign investment is our high skill levels. This must be maintained.
    John J wrote: »
    Where do we start?? Just to throw a few ideas out there...

    I must admit I agree with most of your suggestions, however....
    John J wrote: »

    Income Tax
    • Increase in higher rate of tax by 2 percentage points to 43%
    • Increase in lower rate of tax by 1 percentage point to 21%

    Raising taxes in general may well have a net negative effect on the economy. We need people to keep spending as much as possible so I'm not 100% Sure this is a good idea. That being said there is sense in the move also and one would question how much those increases would actually affect us on a daily basis.
    John J wrote: »
    Third Level Fees
    • Reintroduction of 3rd level fees effective from next college year.

    As stated above this is one thing I do not agree with at all. We need to remain competitive and our workforce has helped us do that over the years. We need to maintain our high standard in this area.
    John J wrote: »
    Social Welfare
    • Strict investigation of all social welfare claims - utilising surplus staff within public service

    This is a big one for me. They absolutely must crack down on social welfare abuses immediately.
    John J wrote: »


    Public Service
    • Pay freeze for all public servants.

    With the exception of cost of living increases I agree.
    John J wrote: »
    • An end to consultancy contracts - this is the work we are paying public servants to do.

    Reminds me of my days in banking. Consultants would be brought in for their expertise, which was over and above our own. What I never understood was why there was no interest in developing the staff that were there so that the need for consultants was removed. There would need to be a trnasition phase to allow for the proper hand-over of skills but this should be at the very least seriously considered.
    John J wrote: »


    Transport
    • Private competition on Dublin bus services.

    I disagree with this one as that will only serve to reduce services to some areas and therefore add more cars to the road. What I would propose would be a radical overhaul of the entire transport system to make it more efficient in every way. Sadly that project would be far too expensive to implement now. I've often spoken about the "spiderweb" idea, which IMO should replace this bizarre fascination that all of our public transport organisations have with Dublins city centre. The number of people that travel into town with the express purpose of travelling back out to somewhere else is staggering and the notion somewhat baffling. :confused:
    John J wrote: »
    • Phased abolition of stamp duty in favour of annual property tax. Property tax will be lower for principal private residence, but will increase substantially for each second and subsequent residence owned. This will help to increase market liquidity and reduce the cyclical nature of tax revenue from property sales.

    This is a very dangerous idea. It would mean that should someone move into the house next door to me that they would be paying the same level of annual property tax as me but would not have paid any Stamp Duty. Why should I have to fork out so much more for what is essentially the same house just because I was unfortunate enough to have bought it before this move came in. It would be a double taxation on those who have already paid the Stamp Duty (in the interests of transparency I wish to point out I didn't pay Stamp Duty on my house given that I was a FTB at the time, but for the purposes of this example it was best illustrated as though I had :D).

    John J wrote: »
    • On-the-spot €500 fines for anti social behaviour

    For as muchg as I may agree I'd say you'll find very few cases where that €500 is actually available.



    Social Welfare crack-downs, Health Service reform, closing of tax loopholes and at least stricter rules regarding the bail-outs to developers are all prime targets that should be lined up. We need to ensure that people still have money to spend and that they do indeed keep spending. We need to ensure we remain competitive, which means continued focus on infrastructure and education, and we need to ensure that any form of increased taxation happens on a fair and relative basis depending on affordability. For all the talk of how this was a balanced budget, most of the changes were static changes that affected everyone financially equally, which therefore meant that they affected the less well off more from a practical standpoint.


  • Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    molloyjh wrote: »
    With the exception of cost of living increases I agree.

    We just have to deal with it. People in this country are going to see a decrease in the standard of living over the next few years and there is nothing we can do about it.
    We have been living off borrowed money for the last 6-7 years. Tens of thousands of people were taking out loans for €250,000+ and spreading it around the economy with large amounts of it ending up as tax to the government who used it to increase public sending. This source has now dried up so there is less money for everyone. It's a new reality for a lot of us. The easy going lifestyle that many of us enjoyed over the last 10 years is over with.

    No point going into detail like ninty9er, as we don't have the numbers but here is what we need to do.

    FF needs to call a press conference in the morning. They need to tell the people that over the last 6-7 years that they screwed the country by poor government lead by an appeaser. They then should tell us straight out that they need to cut education, health and welfare. Pay pause for anyone over the average industrial wage in both public and private. Root out waste.
    It might bury FF, but it's what the country needs.

    Just a few figures. The USA is fighting two wars and is running a deficit of ~€450b and they are seriously worried about it. That's 30 times of what our projected deficit next year, yet they have 75 times more people than we have. That’s how bad it is here, and the sooner that starts to click the better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    eoinbn wrote: »
    We just have to deal with it. People in this country are going to see a decrease in the standard of living over the next few years and there is nothing we can do about it.
    We have been living off borrowed money for the last 6-7 years. Tens of thousands of people were taking out loans for €250,000+ and spreading it around the economy with large amounts of it ending up as tax to the government who used it to increase public sending. This source has now dried up so there is less money for everyone. It's a new reality for a lot of us. The easy going lifestyle that many of us enjoyed over the last 10 years is over with.

    No point going into detail like ninty9er, as we don't have the numbers but here is what we need to do.

    FF needs to call a press conference in the morning. They need to tell the people that over the last 6-7 years that they screwed the country by poor government lead by an appeaser. They then should tell us straight out that they need to cut education, health and welfare. Pay pause for anyone over the average industrial wage in both public and private. Root out waste.
    It might bury FF, but it's what the country needs.

    Just a few figures. The USA is fighting two wars and is running a deficit of ~€450b and they are seriously worried about it. That's 30 times of what our projected deficit next year, yet they have 75 times more people than we have. That’s how bad it is here, and the sooner that starts to click the better.

    I understand what you are saying, but in terms of the standard of living I am on a good bit more than the average wage (almost twice) and I'm still having a hard time month on month. I have a relatively small mortgage considering my age group and when I bought and I haven't been spending all that much over the last 12 months or so, with the exception of my holiday. Despite this I'm lucky if I can go out for a few drinks once a month because of all the bills I have to pay and the overall cost of living - which is very high here. The increase in tax and additional costs that I am going to have to deal with over the next number of months means I need the cost of living increase to get by. And I'm doing fairly well from a wage perspective. God help anyone getting the average or below!

    At the end of the day the well off have not been as affected by this budget proportional to the less well off. They have made huge amounts of money in the boom and are being sheltered now in the crash. Those screwing the social welfare system are doing relatively better than the average taxpayer too. This is just not fair. The middle class certainly gained from the boom, but not nearly as much as the likes of the developers and had to contend with the higher cost of living. Now its us again taking the brunt of the hit in the recession.

    Developers were being rewarded in the boom years for taking the risk, now when it looks like there's a down side to this risk they are being bailed out. But then surely there is no real risk? So what were they rewarded for.

    I'm starting to sound like my dad, who is far more left leaning than I am. But if I had to put up with another 25 years of this kind of system I could see myself becoming more and more like him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Developers were being rewarded in the boom years for taking the risk, now when it looks like there's a down side to this risk they are being bailed out. But then surely there is no real risk? So what were they rewarded for.

    I'm starting to sound like my dad, who is far more left leaning than I am. But if I had to put up with another 25 years of this kind of system I could see myself becoming more and more like him.


    The penny has dropped.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    It is no wonder that people are feeling the pinch here in Ireland, one of the most expensive countries in Europe and prices still through the roof. No real competition here, no real consumer watchdogs, and retailers still want the maximum price for items.

    Only this week I read that the Irish group of small and medium business enterprises were up in arms claiming that every tourist that returns from a US shopping trip with over the limit of 175 Euro of goods, an Irish job is lost, which is absolute rubbish of course. This group wants the Customs to stop everybody coming off US spending trips, as they claim that the Customs have not been doing enough, and have been lobbying the Government to take action.Can you believe how mean and low these peoiple are? So shop in Ireland and pay their rip off prices and keep the golden goose alive. Talk about turning the clock back, instead the retailers should get real and more competitive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,518 ✭✭✭✭dsmythy


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    It is no wonder that people are feeling the pinch here in Ireland, one of the most expensive countries in Europe and prices still through the roof. No real competition here, no real consumer watchdogs, and retailers still want the maximum price for items.

    One positive side effect the downturn might have is ridiculous prices may come down. In the past people we're in too much of a hurry making money to stop and try to get value when they were spending it. People will be more careful about where they spend their money now and retailers and businesses who don't lower prices will simply go out of business. Publicans being a case in point.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭kellybelly


    No free legal aid,end of - why should someone who breaks into my house get the benefit of the tax payers money to help them get away with it,its an absolute joke and quite a contradiction to say "ok you have broken the law but dont worry we are gonna pay someone to help you get off the hook".Solicitors and Barristers all over the country are lapping it up.

    Just my 2c.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    eoinbn wrote: »
    We just have to deal with it. People in this country are going to see a decrease in the standard of living over the next few years and there is nothing we can do about it.
    We have been living off borrowed money for the last 6-7 years. Tens of thousands of people were taking out loans for €250,000+ and spreading it around the economy with large amounts of it ending up as tax to the government who used it to increase public sending. This source has now dried up so there is less money for everyone. It's a new reality for a lot of us. The easy going lifestyle that many of us enjoyed over the last 10 years is over with.

    No point going into detail like ninty9er, as we don't have the numbers but here is what we need to do.

    FF needs to call a press conference in the morning. They need to tell the people that over the last 6-7 years that they screwed the country by poor government lead by an appeaser. They then should tell us straight out that they need to cut education, health and welfare. Pay pause for anyone over the average industrial wage in both public and private. Root out waste.
    It might bury FF, but it's what the country needs.

    Just a few figures. The USA is fighting two wars and is running a deficit of ~€450b and they are seriously worried about it. That's 30 times of what our projected deficit next year, yet they have 75 times more people than we have. That’s how bad it is here, and the sooner that starts to click the better.

    No source right now and I'm on my way out, but isn't the US Federal Budget $3tn in deficit as opposed to $450bn. That's 6 times in the difference or 180 times the deficit. more than twice per head. And most of it is owned by China!!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,833 ✭✭✭SeanW


    I actually have some sympathy for Biffo. He was handed a mess by Bertie Ahern and Charlie McCreevy, who have all since of course abandoned the mess they made.

    Back during the real Celtic Tiger, late 1990s early 2000s, the government threw it away with one inflationary budget after another that gave away unsustainable spending increases and tax cuts which depended on good economic fortunes, which continued in a sense, into a property bubble, which helped the property developers. They're the only ones FF care about anyway.

    A good example of how FF pissed away the boom was (I think it was 2002) budget either reduced taxes or left them steady, but since inflation was running out of control and the gov't felt the need to take money out of the economy, they came up with this breathtakingly stupid SSIA scheme, the accounts of which were all nicely timed to mature *just* before the 2007 election. Who can forget e-Voting, PPARS etc? FF couldn't find a wall big enough to piss all our money against.
    But hey, Charlie McCreevy got t step out of Leinster House every Decmber dressed like Santa Claus for a few years ...

    The government could have hoarded some money during the Celtic Tiger years - Japanese style - or spent it wisely on things this country despartely needs, like nationwide school rebuilding, the Dublin Metro, Broadband infrastructure etc. But no, the boom is over, the bubble has burst and the money is gone.

    We now have a budget that targets the very young and very old, has cancelled (eh ... sorry the word was "postponed" :rolleyes: ) much needed infrastructed projects (like a very small N5 bypass project near me that was desparately needed to alleviate congestion in Longford Town) but they found a massive capital reserve to bail out ... SURPRISE ... the property developers.
    In addition, within the last year, FF stood by as that muppet Eamon Ryan raided a fund ringfenced to pay for Broadband infrastructure to pay for f@#%ing wood pellet stoves.

    It's gonna be a bumpy ride for the next 5 years at least.

    I can now only hope that they don't do something really stupid like cancel the public transport investments in Transport 21 or continue raiding the budgets for Education, Communications etc. Yet I fear that I hope in vain.


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