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Educational cuts
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It's 3rd class maths Trotter. If we have x number of teachers working normal working hours, with regard to the whole calender year, then we will need less teachers, compared to y number of teachers working a whole calender less five months holidays.
Would you stand in front of me and say.. look its 3rd class maths? I don't think so, so lets stay nice. I will anyway.
You're wrong in fact. Lets say I have 9 science sections to cover from the curriculum. I have 30 in the class.
I can't teach the group based lessons with that number in the class, because I can't watch the lively ones, help the ones with no english, and show the weaker children how to do it, all at the same time.
With 20 in a class I can do this.
Now.. How does bringing that group of 30 into school for 4 weeks extra solve the problem above?
I don't believe it will, but if it gives you a jolly to know that I had better conditions than you (ones I did a post grad and 4 years of earning buttons to achieve),and they were taken off me to save money, then I'll go to work for 4 weeks of the summer.
Maybe we should do babysitting on Saturday nights too?
Damn teachers.. getting a job I wasn't excluded from doing and taking holidays longer than mine... damn teachers.
So cockiness and telling me what is 3rd class maths shows more about the flaws in your argument, not mine.0 -
Would you stand in front of me and say.. look its 3rd class maths? I don't think so, so lets stay nice. I will anyway.
You're wrong in fact. Lets say I have 9 science sections to cover from the curriculum. I have 30 in the class.
I can't teach the group based lessons with that number in the class, because I can't watch the lively ones, help the ones with no english, and show the weaker children how to do it, all at the same time.
With 20 in a class I can do this.
Now.. How does bringing that group of 30 into school for 4 weeks extra solve the problem above?
I don't believe it will, but if it gives you a jolly to know that I had better conditions than you (ones I did a post grad and 4 years of earning buttons to achieve),and they were taken off me to save money, then I'll go to work for 4 weeks of the summer.
Maybe we should do babysitting on Saturday nights too?
Damn teachers.. getting a job I wasn't excluded from doing and taking holidays longer than mine... damn teachers.
So cockiness and telling me what is 3rd class maths shows more about the flaws in your argument, not mine.
One thing I've noticed about teachers, is how all these problems that are thrown up about "we can't do this and we can't do that", suddenly come down like a lead lined deck of cards when money is put on the table. Now money isn't on the table on this occasion, but what is being asked is more effort and work for the same money from teachers, the same thing that is being asked of employees up and down the country at the moment. In a private sector workplace, you would be brought into a meeting and told you have to make 10% savings in expenditure and create a 10% improvement in productivity, not up for discussion or debate, that this is what is required to keep you employed.
If you take the same set of circumstances and transpose then into a private sector work environment Trotter, the options are extremely simple, either you get with the script and resolve the problem without recourse to industrial actions and more money, or else you get out, it's that simple.
Trotter, the fact that you've done a BA,a H. Dip or a B. Ed. no longer means you are insulated from change.0 -
You're right, nesf.
But postgrad scholarships aren't going to help poor kids get in to do a primary degree.
And a bunch of scholarships that rewarded hard work, creativity and intelligence would certainly change the balance of attitude in students.
The scholarships you suggest, aimed at the top 16-20 students in the country, won't help poor kids get to college either. The top Leaving Certs will always be achieved by people who are in stable, relatively financially comfortable, educationally supportive backgrounds, and not by poor marginalised kids.0 -
One thing I've noticed about teachers, is how all these problems that are thrown up about "we can't do this and we can't do that", suddenly come down like a lead lined deck of cards when money is put on the table. Now money isn't on the table on this occasion, but what is being asked is more effort and work for the same money from teachers, the same thing that is being asked of employees up and down the country at the moment. In a private sector workplace, you would be brought into a meeting and told you have to make 10% savings in expenditure and create a 10% improvement in productivity, not up for discussion or debate, that this is what is required to keep you employed.
If you take the same set of circumstances and transpose then into a private sector work environment Trotter, the options are extremely simple, either you get with the script and resolve the problem without recourse to industrial actions and more money, or else you get out, it's that simple.
Trotter, the fact that you've done a BA,a H. Dip or a B. Ed. no longer means you are insulated from change.
It is nonsensical to compare a 'bottom-line' measured business performance with teaching a class. People in private industry are relatively dispensable - they know the drill when they join up. If a business goes down the tubes there is no particular social price to pay.
Teachers are not dispensable unless we have no regard whatsoever for education. As long as children keep turning up for school, it is not feasible to tell a teachers "sorry you didn't make us enough money in the last month, get lost".
To the best of my understanding of it (and I work in the private sector, not teaching) is that this is not about teachers being asked to work harder. This is about withdrawal of support for children who need support be it special needs, for language support etc., and that is genuinely sad for parents of little kids affected. The teachers will make do. It'll be children and their parents who will pay the price in the long run.0 -
Another load of nonsense I've been listening to this week, TRAVELLER'S GRANTS for education. I'm not anti-traveller, I have friends who are travellers, but I know that most of the travellers I know are driving around in 08 vans. I don't know many people with brand new vans every year, so why are we paying educational grants to schools for people who seem to be able to afford brand new vans ever year???
Because we feel it might be for the betterment of society generally if this group of people were encourage to use the education service?
Surely, even in the philistine cesspit that is 2008 Ireland, all success is not measured by what year is on your number-plate?0 -
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teachers are living in some sort of alternate reality, they don't know what it's like to be in the real world0
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Trotter, teachers have a handy number, they have excellent pay, excellent promotional opportunities, the holidays they have are not just a perk anymore in the climate of today, they are now a cost that we cannot afford to pay for.
How on earth do you work this out? Teachers provide a non revenue-generating public service. How can their holidays be costing the exchequer in real terms?
Obviously like the rest of the workforce they are statutorily entitled to paid holidays so I presume your arguement will not be so basically flawed as to object to that.0 -
Just throwing this idea out there - haven't really thought it through...Lets say I have 9 science sections to cover from the curriculum. I have 30 in the class.
I can't teach the group based lessons with that number in the class, because I can't watch the lively ones, help the ones with no english, and show the weaker children how to do it, all at the same time.
With 20 in a class I can do this.
Now.. How does bringing that group of 30 into school for 4 weeks extra solve the problem above?
How about reducing the class sizes, but extending the school year by say, one month, to compensate? Essentially, you'd be spreading your time with the kids a little more so that you can spend a little more time with each of them. It would probably be an administrative headache. Like I said, I haven't really thought it through.0 -
Trotter, the fact that you've done a BA,a H. Dip or a B. Ed. no longer means you are insulated from change.
I am asking you to explain using my example how extending the year will help the children. You haven't answered.
I worked in the private sector, I know what change is thanks. Your anti teacher attitude is clouding this. I am perfectly willing to change my work practices if it helps the situation.
I'm not willing to do stupid things just to appease teacher haters.
Now.. My class of 30 example.. how does your solution save the country money?xOxSinéadxOx wrote: »teachers are living in some sort of alternate reality, they don't know what it's like to be in the real world
You're right.. we're all bad bad people. I worked in the private sector for years and I do more hours as a teacher and its a more stressful job. Where does your post provide a solution to the education cuts?0 -
I am asking you to explain using my example how extending the year will help the children. You haven't answered.
I think the extra month should be used to improve their little minds through reading books. Instead of doing normal curricular work, they would spend the entire school day reading whatever books they want. The teachers wouldn't teach, they would just supervise and impose some discipline. There would be no homework or testing or anything else, just reading. That would have a massive impact on improving their literacy.Trotter wrote:You're right.. we're all bad bad people. I worked in the private sector for years and I do more hours as a teacher and its a more stressful job. Where does your post provide a solution to the education cuts?
As a teacher, do you think it would be easier for you if immigration wasn't so high? Would you be able to cope with the education cuts a bit better if the classrooms weren't so crowded?0 -
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It's 3rd class maths Trotter. If we have x number of teachers working normal working hours, with regard to the whole calender year, then we will need less teachers, compared to y number of teachers working a whole calender less five months holidays.
Trotter, teachers have a handy number, they have excellent pay, excellent promotional opportunities, the holidays they have are not just a perk anymore in the climate of today, they are now a cost that we cannot afford to pay for.
I think you might need to go back to Maths class Darragh29. x amount of Primary teachers teach the same class all year round, so I don't see where you're coming up with less teachers? Same amount of students = same amount of teachers. It doesn't matter how many extra hours/days a teacher works, it's still going to be the same amount of teachers.
In terms of excellent pay, I don't know where people are getting their figures, but I've heard some absolutely ridiculous amounts being thrown around in the media and on forums. I'm on less money than most of my friends - all of us have at least one third level qualification, and are working in a variety of areas - when I told one of them what my take home pay is she was shocked because of the rubbish she'd been hearing.
What promotional opportunities are you talking about? Becoming principal/vice/deputy are the only promotional opportunities available for a mainstream teacher, and there aren't that many positions available.
I work in a small school, and I'm right in the middle of the pecking order. I wouldn't be next in line to become principal or vice-principal for years, and I wouldn't want the job anyway because I'd still have to teach my class full-time while doing another job at the same time! I like being able to give my class my full attention, as best I can, given the ever increasing numbers.
If teaching is such an easy job, why don't you go and do a postgrad and become a teacher?0 -
Just throwing this idea out there - haven't really thought it through...
How about reducing the class sizes, but extending the school year by say, one month, to compensate? Essentially, you'd be spreading your time with the kids a little more so that you can spend a little more time with each of them. It would probably be an administrative headache. Like I said, I haven't really thought it through.
It's good to hear people offering solutions without using them to attack teachers, thank you for your good manners! Reducing the class sizes is the key to giving children a better education. The more children in my class, the less time each child gets. It's that simple, and people can give out about how they had 40 in their class etc etc til the cows come home, but it doesn't change the fact that childrens' education is suffering in larger classes. As to extending the school year, maybe if the class sizes were reduced drastically it might be practical, but by the end of June every teacher I know is completely burnt out. And if anyone wants to complain about that, I'll ask again, if teaching is so easy, why isn't everyone doing it?!0 -
Wow a lot of this teacher hating is unbelievable !!!Ever heard of 'swings and roundabouts'?When the boom was in full swing and the private sector were making double or triple our wages (no thats not an exaggeration, for similarly qualified graduates -yes teachers are graduates -not somewhere between babysitter and au pair on the career scale)nobody was complaining then .
In the last ten years we have been 'passed' by plumbers/plasterers /carpenters/electricians/ gardai/prison officers etc etc etc ...Can someone please explain now how WE should loose on both the swings and the roundabouts?
We had to strike and what a fiasco that was -remember all those annoying cocky little teen kids 'protesting' in the streets then at their right to an education ,giving the guards hassle ...?They are our 'clients'...Most sane people will sympathise with anyone who deals with teenagers on a daily basis in a classroom -sure they arent all adolescent delinquents but it only takes one ...You know what age group causes most of the trouble in society ,the sort of anti social behaviour that makes estates a living hell ?Id say 12-16 year olds -the ones we deal with ...
Everyone knows teaching is a very STRESSFUL(cant you sense it from me right now !?) profession.Just because its your turn to suck it up dont start 'whinging' about our job security (yeah until you burst and either have a nervous breakdown or box one of them ),pension(sorry YOURS went down the toilet but once again why should we suffer with you just because you feel spiteful ?),or 'holidays' (Minimum needed to 'recharge')
Ever wonder why there are so many EX teachers....take a month off our holidays and you will have so many burnt out teachers it will cost a fortune in 'early retirement'.
We once had one of the best education systems in the world ,not for long if things keep going at this rate ...0 -
In the last ten years we have been 'passed' by plumbers/plasterers /carpenters/electricians/ gardai/prison officers etc etc etc
A typical civil service attitude where you have to earn more that certain lesser breeds in the public, or private sector. The plumbers earned more than you because there was a boom. They have to save for a rainy day and for a pension which will be nothing like yours.
And in fact private sector wages have stalled - with the exception of construction and some financial services - during that later part of the boom. GDP growth was largely caused by the population growth.
During that time civil service pay increased by 50%. You benchmarked against private sector salaries on the way up, ignored the stall in private sector salaries ( particularly IT for instance) in the last 5 years, and now that private sector salaries are falling you think it is fair to continue to get pay rises, and whine ( to us - your taxpaying employers - who are getting poorer) about "cutbacks".
Take a pay-cut and we can employ more of you. That will solve the crisis in school sizes. BenchMarking - a sham anyway - will be proven to be an utter and total sham if you dont get benchmarked when private sector wages fall.How on earth do you work this out? Teachers provide a non revenue-generating public service. How can their holidays be costing the exchequer in real terms?
What if they had 365 days holiday a year - would that cost the exchequer in real terms?0 -
I think the extra month should be used to improve their little minds through reading books. Instead of doing normal curricular work, they would spend the entire school day reading whatever books they want. The teachers wouldn't teach, they would just supervise and impose some discipline. There would be no homework or testing or anything else, just reading. That would have a massive impact on improving their literacy.
Its not a bad idea but just on the practicalities, imagine putting 30 children in a class and saying .. "Ok.. read now for 2 hours."
A lot of the suggestions Im getting are focussed more on just getting the teachers to work in the summer and not on what is good for the children.As a teacher, do you think it would be easier for you if immigration wasn't so high? Would you be able to cope with the education cuts a bit better if the classrooms weren't so crowded?
To me a child is a child. I've taught kids from 10 or 15 nationalities so it makes no difference where the child is from, theres a strategy for teaching them. What causes the huge problems is putting children with a specific need into a class, be that language or a learning disability, and packing 25 more children around them, bringing the class up to 30+.
Putting that number of children in a room turns teaching into crowd control. The teachers time with each child is diluted too much.
The problem is that education cuts are directly crowding the classroom. Class sizes are being put up. Thats the main problem. Teachers can work around a lot of issues but packing the classroom to the rafters just removes any options a teacher has.
I think I'm going to leave this thread be anyway. Its just yet another teacher bashing session. I work hard and I don't do it for the money. I'm not interested in defending myself every time I log on. I'd prefer to discuss the cuts, but as they aren't going to be solved by getting teachers to sweep the roads for the summer, I don't think theres anything I can say here that people want to hear.
I just wish people would stop bashing my profession when their opinion isnt based on ever teaching a class for even one day.0 -
I'd prefer to discuss the cuts, but as they aren't going to be solved by getting teachers to sweep the roads for the summer, I don't think theres anything I can say here that people want to hear.
We want you to understand that we could employ more teachers if teachers took a pay cut. That there need be no cuts that affect the young, and underpriviledged if you took a pay cut. WE could easily hire 1,000 new teachers with a 5% tax cut across the board ( the new teachers would be paid less than older teachers).0 -
We want you to understand that we could employ more teachers if teachers took a pay cut. That there need be no cuts that affect the young, and underpriviledged if you took a pay cut. WE could easily hire 1,000 new teachers with a 5% tax cut across the board ( the new teachers would be paid less than older teachers).
I want you to understand that screwing teachers wages isn't the solution to everything. My wages aren't that good, and I can't pay my mortgage with this great pension I keep hearing about.
Anyway, I'm done. Its pointless defending a profession that some people have a hatred for regardless. Maybe I should just do my job for free. That'll keep you happy. Damn teachers.
Slán0 -
Less immigrants means less tax revenue, which would presumably mean even more cut-backs.As a teacher, do you think it would be easier for you if immigration wasn't so high? Would you be able to cope with the education cuts a bit better if the classrooms weren't so crowded?
But the point of the extra month teaching is to give you more time so you don't "burn out". You'd still be teaching the same number of kids.Ever wonder why there are so many EX teachers....take a month off our holidays and you will have so many burnt out teachers it will cost a fortune in 'early retirement'.
Two legitimate proposals have been put forward:I'd prefer to discuss the cuts, but as they aren't going to be solved by getting teachers to sweep the roads for the summer, I don't think theres anything I can say here that people want to hear.- Teachers take a pay cut, which means more teachers can be hired.
- Extend the school year so that each child receives a greater number of teaching hours.
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Take a pay-cut and we can employ more of you. That will solve the crisis in school sizes. BenchMarking - a sham anyway - will be proven to be an utter and total sham if you dont get benchmarked when private sector wages fall.
Take a pay-cut and who can employ more of us? The government, via the tax-payer, which includes teachers!!!! And we're taxed at source so there's no cash in hand or any way of avoiding it! So you want to cut teachers' wages - down to what kind of level are you talking about? I've been teaching 8 years and I wouldn't get a mortgage for a shed on the side of a mountain! This kind of rubbish is what's distracting people from the 32 cuts in education, and letting the government get away with screwing the education system. Again, if it's such an easy little number that the wages can be lowered, why aren't you a teacher?0 -
Take a pay-cut and who can employ more of us? The government, via the tax-payer, which includes teachers!!!!
Christ on a stick. You dont actually think that you are paying yourselves, do you? Taxation transfers money from the private sector to the public sector.I've been teaching 8 years and I wouldn't get a mortgage for a shed on the side of a mountain!
That problem is rectifying itself.0 -
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Is it not the case though that the longer the teacher has to spend giving poorer students special attention, thus slowing down the class, the more harm is done to the smarter students as they get very bored, very quickly? Are you actually trying to tell me that its okay to have classes of 30 pupils? Would you be happy if your young budding genius amounted to a troublemaker cos of boredom??It's 3rd class maths Trotter. If we have x number of teachers working normal working hours, with regard to the whole calender year, then we will need less teachers, compared to y number of teachers working a whole calender less five months holidays.
If you have an issue with theacher pay, go get a job in teaching or complain to the guys who negotiated the deal (government) but do not sit there preaching that a job you or I know nothing about is overpaid at the expense of the very people who will pay your pension (the kids). At the end of the day, it IS the only job where a bloke will get the job 100% of the time at the expense of a woman.
I would say though, from what experience I have through the gf looking for work, that there is an issue with who gets the jobs as, in Tipperary especially, jobs are handed out based on who you know and (especially) not on how good you are. I have seen herself being passed up for permanent positions (despite the parents of children coming in ecstatic at how happy and well their child is suddenly doing) so that the niece of a friend can have the job.
She is one of the teachers who will now have no prospect of getting a job and will probably have to either leave the profession, leave the country or whatever.0 -
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Who would have been working here for a minimum of two years (during which time they paid income tax) in order to avail of social welfare?Deleted User wrote: »unless they are some of the 40,000 non nationals on the dole?0 -
Who would have been working here for a minimum of two years (during which time they paid income tax) in order to avail of social welfare?
agreed, but at present a drain on the economy, and requiring significant English language suport.
One of the interesting things to come out of a report on education in Dublin 15,in 2007, was that the only primary school, not requiring English language support teachers, (of which there are at least 2,000) was the Irish medium school.0 -
Please correct me if my estimates are wrong hre but AFAIK Teachers get a lump sum of 1.5 times their salary the day they retire and then 50% of there wages until they die.
A teacher retiring this year would get nearly €100k in a lump sum and then €35,000 a year until they die?0 -
But they have already made a significant contribution - they are entitled to their unemployment benefit, as are the approx. 200,000 Irish people who are currently out of work. I'm sure most of them well make a significant contribution again in the future. Immigrants are always an easy target when the going gets tough.Deleted User wrote: »agreed, but at present a drain on the economy, and requiring significant English language suport.
Besides, can we put a figure on how many non-Irish children, whose parents are currently unemployed, required English-language support?0 -
Powerhouse wrote: »Because we feel it might be for the betterment of society generally if this group of people were encourage to use the education service?
Surely, even in the philistine cesspit that is 2008 Ireland, all success is not measured by what year is on your number-plate?
It is exactly this crazy Ahern mentality of throwing money at any problem that exists to appease the people behind the problem, that has us in this very significant financial mess we are now in!!!How on earth do you work this out? Teachers provide a non revenue-generating public service. How can their holidays be costing the exchequer in real terms?
Obviously like the rest of the workforce they are statutorily entitled to paid holidays so I presume your arguement will not be so basically flawed as to object to that.
They are indeed entitled to holidays but interestingly above you have tried to compare and then equate what the rest of us must get by with, which is statutory holiday entitlements and a few days extra from your employer if you are lucky, with a holiday calender for teachers which represents not a huge amount less than 50% of the normal industrial working calander, spent on holidays!?! I think teachers on here just don't grasp the meaning of the word "productivity"!I am asking you to explain using my example how extending the year will help the children. You haven't answered.
I worked in the private sector, I know what change is thanks. Your anti teacher attitude is clouding this. I am perfectly willing to change my work practices if it helps the situation.
I'm not willing to do stupid things just to appease teacher haters.
Now.. My class of 30 example.. how does your solution save the country money?
You're right.. we're all bad bad people. I worked in the private sector for years and I do more hours as a teacher and its a more stressful job. Where does your post provide a solution to the education cuts?
I didn't say all teachers are bad, but for some reason, I can only recall one teacher that I can say was an excellent teacher, who inspired me and moulded me into the person I am today. I can recall a hell of a lot of pure wasters who were only in a teaching job because they wouldn't have survived a wet week in any other industry. I don't accept that you do more hours as a teacher than you did in a private sector job. For this to be true, you would have to have had three months summer holidays, two weeks holiday at Easter, two/three weeks holiday at Christmas, one/two weeks holiday at Halloween and two/four other weeks holidays throughout the year.
I don't know of any full time job in the private sector that gives holidays like this, so this is the basis for me not accepting your statement above.
With regard to how making the school year longer will save money, it is obvious that if you increase the number of hours that teachers spend in the classroom, you are increasing productivity. If you increase productivity, you need less people to do the same amount of work. If you need less people, you have to pay less people, so you save a lot money. The reason the teaching profession won't work with this is because it means working harder for the same money, and teachers unions won't give anything without taking something more valuable back.
A pure example of the absolute nonsense that regularly goes on with teachers and abuse of sick leave entitlements, is the case of the Mayo school principal/Shell to Sea campaigner, Maura Harrington. This woman, employed as a school principcal of all jobs, decided to basically set aside her position of employment for the best part of the last few years, while she went out protesting, ON FULL PAY!!!If teaching is such an easy job, why don't you go and do a postgrad and become a teacher?
I already have a post grad, I'm probably over qualified to be a teacher, but I wouldn't function well within a highly unionised/extremely structured system, I'm not a follower, I naturally question everything around me and in my business, I try to improve everything I do, every day. Change in the course of every day is as regular to me as breathing air, so I'm happy where I am thanks... I am successful at what I do because I see change and I take advantage of it. See what you've pointed out there, promotions based on a pecking order/seniority, that would do my head in...
Here's a question for any teachers here: How many sick days did you take in the last 3 years???0 -
With regard to how making the school year longer will save money, it is obvious that if you increase the number of hours that teachers spend in the classroom, you are increasing productivity. If you increase productivity, you need less people to do the same amount of work. If you need less people, you have to pay less people, so you save a lot money.
I already have a post grad, I'm probably over qualified to be a teacher, but I wouldn't function well within a highly unionised/extremely structured system, I'm not a follower, I naturally question everything around me and in my business, I try to improve everything I do, every day. Change in the course of every day is as regular to me as breathing air, so I'm happy where I am thanks... I am successful at what I do because I see change and I take advantage of it. See what you've pointed out there, promotions based on a pecking order/seniority, that would do my head in...
Here's a question for any teachers here: How many sick days did you take in the last 3 years???
How do you not comprehend that you can't reduce the number of teachers by increasing productivity? No matter how productive a teacher is, there's still a class there to be taught - you don't end up sending them home early because they've picked up everything you've taught that day! Your argument makes absolutely no sense. You're talking about children as if they are a product being manufactured!
Is your postgrad a H.Dip in education, or any other postgrad that qualifies you fully as a teacher in Ireland? If you don't think you'd be interested in teaching then stop bitching about it! Until you've tried a job, it's the height of arrogance and ignorance to go around giving out about it, and coming up with ridiculous, impractical notions.
On the question of sick days, I haven't a clue, but here's a list of some of the reasons I've had for taking them - flu, winter vomiting bug (more than once, had to call South Doc because I was vomiting for 6 hours straight), and other illnesses that I've picked up in the classroom. I've NEVER "pulled a sickie" in my life, and I don't know any other teacher who would either. There's never been a guarantee of the school being able to get a sub, so you'd have to be pretty uncaring to pretend to be sick when you know there's a chance the other teachers could have 10 extra kids each for the day.0 -
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How do you not comprehend that you can't reduce the number of teachers by increasing productivity? No matter how productive a teacher is, there's still a class there to be taught - you don't end up sending them home early because they've picked up everything you've taught that day! Your argument makes absolutely no sense. You're talking about children as if they are a product being manufactured!
What you are assuming is that one academic year fits exactly into one calender year, which is the case at the moment. I'm saying that this is an unproductive framework which accomodates way too much holiday time. I'm speaking from my own experience of being educated in the Irish educational system and I don't need to have taught a class full of kids to be qualified to speak on how inherently lazy and unmotivated I found the vast majority of teachers I came into contact with, to be.Is your postgrad a H.Dip in education, or any other postgrad that qualifies you fully as a teacher in Ireland? If you don't think you'd be interested in teaching then stop bitching about it! Until you've tried a job, it's the height of arrogance and ignorance to go around giving out about it, and coming up with ridiculous, impractical notions.
Again I don't need a B. Ed or a H. Dip to speak from personal experience. If someone like me can pass through the whole educational system and only come into contact with one excellent teacher, then I'd question the quality or worth of the B. Ed or H. Dip that you say I should have completed, before you think I'm qualified to speak here about my experience of teachers.On the question of sick days, I haven't a clue, but here's a list of some of the reasons I've had for taking them - flu, winter vomiting bug (more than once, had to call South Doc because I was vomiting for 6 hours straight), and other illnesses that I've picked up in the classroom. I've NEVER "pulled a sickie" in my life, and I don't know any other teacher who would either. There's never been a guarantee of the school being able to get a sub, so you'd have to be pretty uncaring to pretend to be sick when you know there's a chance the other teachers could have 10 extra kids each for the day.
Well out in the real world, I worked in one particular job where if you had sick days that totally any more than 5% of your scheduled attendence, you didn't get a pay increase and if you were out sick, you didn't get paid.
I'm entitled to participate in this discussion without being a teacher!!! I don't want to be a teacher, that's not to say that I have nothing to say about the current subject matter. This is the kind of siege mentality we get from teachers that has the whole educational system constipated with a rationality that belongs to the 1920's.0
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