The Downward Spiral

Johnny2X4

'Ello, 'ello...

Is it just me, or is humanity getting worse? Or maybe we've lost our humanity... Not sure how to word it.

It seems to me that we're spiralling downwards. The general population would rather drink and drug themselves into a stupor than do anything meaningful or worthwhile... I'm not against drinking or recreational drug use, I smoke and drink myself, but not to the level of most people.

It's become so taboo to challenge the current pub-going public on their actions, but it's get increasingly frustrating...

Opinions?

nyarlothothep

I agree that the drinking culture/obnoxious behaviour problem is really annoying and needs to be fixed, I think humanity has been on a very gradual upward spiral with lapses into insane savagery eg WW1 and WW2. We're more civilized now than in comparison to the medieval times, enjoy greater personal freedoms etc. I think technology, a linked increase in prosperity combined with fortuitous lines of reasoning are the reasons for this. There are still ridiculous acts of barbarism committed on a daily basis in other parts of the world but imo our eventual salvation from our own pathetically primitive tendencies towards nastiness lies in science, prosperity and the fostering of a humane/just culture. The last one must be fought on a continual basis.

ChocolateSauce

I think that we are on a grand upward spiral. Perhaps you're just noticing the shabby state of humanity more keenly than before? I consider us to be more civilised than we were 10 years ago. There are blips on the radar, but generally we get better over time.

spoonbadger

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

I think that we are on a grand upward spiral. Perhaps you're just noticing the shabby state of humanity more keenly than before? I consider us to be more civilised than we were 10 years ago. There are blips on the radar, but generally we get better over time.

Agreed.

Every generation seems to think that everything was better when they were young. I wonder if that somehow ties into ageing psychology? (ie. that we assume the world is getting worse as we get older,because we want to look back on our childhood as being brilliant?).

....Or maybe the world really is going to hell in a handbag. There certainly weren't as many lindsay lohan stories in the news back in the 50's. Must've been fookin' bliss .

Shinji Ikari

Johnny2X4 wrote: »

'Ello, 'ello...

Is it just me, or is humanity getting worse? Or maybe we've lost our humanity... Not sure how to word it.

It seems to me that we're spiralling downwards. The general population would rather drink and drug themselves into a stupor than do anything meaningful or worthwhile... I'm not against drinking or recreational drug use, I smoke and drink myself, but not to the level of most people.

It's become so taboo to challenge the current pub-going public on their actions, but it's get increasingly frustrating...

Opinions?

I disagree. We are more civilised now than ever. No slavery, no capital punsihment, equal rights regardless of gender,race religion and sexual orientation. People were just as bad in the past, look at what Father Mathew was up against and the opium wars. The British Empire was the biggest drug dealer of that era. People tend to look at the past with rose tinted spectacles.

johnnyskeleton

Johnny2X4 wrote: »

'Ello, 'ello...

Is it just me, or is humanity getting worse? Or maybe we've lost our humanity... Not sure how to word it.

It seems to me that we're spiralling downwards. The general population would rather drink and drug themselves into a stupor than do anything meaningful or worthwhile... I'm not against drinking or recreational drug use, I smoke and drink myself, but not to the level of most people.

It's become so taboo to challenge the current pub-going public on their actions, but it's get increasingly frustrating...

Opinions?

By the Buddhist standard, by using more drink and drugs we are coming closer to oblivion, which I suppose could be considered Nirvana.

Bertrand Russell argued that the ability to be idle was one of our greatest strengths (or at least he would have, if he wasn't idly musing at the time).

Capt'n Midnight

Johnny2X4 wrote: »

'Ello, 'ello...

Is it just me, or is humanity getting worse? Or maybe we've lost our humanity... Not sure how to word it.

It seems to me that we're spiralling downwards. The general population would rather drink and drug themselves into a stupor than do anything meaningful or worthwhile... I'm not against drinking or recreational drug use, I smoke and drink myself, but not to the level of most people.

Opinions?

Humanity is getting better. Chaucer had a tale where the millers son (or someone) didn't wear the same clothes as his parents and behaved differently, so it's nothing new. In many countries human rights are at an all time high and more importantly are seen to be important to enforce in other countries. The USA and their climate of fear and support of totalatiran regiemes would be the massive fly in that ointment.

The word (not the software) ubuntu is interesting in that the west is finally realising that concept that we can't have human rights unless others do, Forget about carbon footprint, what is your human rights footprint for the stuff you buy from the third world ?

The difference is now we care about such stuff

JohnGalt

I don't think we are headed anywhere better and I don't think we have been anywhere worse. Our interpretations of the state of humanity in general are not worth any more than the conditions they are supposedly based on. What criteria are you using to place one period of time on a higher echelon than another? What value do these criteria have and what are their origin?

RoMiLe

If you find that you loath modern society, you can do something about it.

Three words: The Venus Project.

Google it and tell me what you think of it. It's definitely an improvement over the society we have now.

Gunny Hartman

Johnny2X4 wrote: »

'Ello, 'ello...

Is it just me, or is humanity getting worse? Or maybe we've lost our humanity... Not sure how to word it.

It seems to me that we're spiralling downwards. The general population would rather drink and drug themselves into a stupor than do anything meaningful or worthwhile... I'm not against drinking or recreational drug use, I smoke and drink myself, but not to the level of most people.

It's become so taboo to challenge the current pub-going public on their actions, but it's get increasingly frustrating...

Opinions?

Humanity is not getting worse we have been at the same level we always have. We will never loose our humanity it's impossible, it's why the call us Human.

As for spiralling downwards I would have to disagree there always have been the same level of drunken debauchery there always has been. There are plenty of people I know that do not drink or smoke as well so I don't think it's a general problem with the population.

And as for challenging the pub going population on their actions have you not seen the "I've had enough" adverts on television. I think you will find that the government are challenging them.

GH

Mr Benevolent

OP, you need to learn more about history and past civilisations. They were much worse.

IMO, people are believe what they read in the news and believe it. That's what makes them think it's worse.

Húrin

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

I think that we are on a grand upward spiral.

Where are we going?

I think that this idea is really naive. It seems to lack critically assessed evidence. Most of the (Eurocentric) arguments presented by the OP are simply a result of the west being richer than before, not humans becoming morally better. It is also a sobering thought that we are rich because of the west's colonising ways, and the fact that we are borrowing the resource wealth of the future generations too.

Many of the problems we have are the same ones most societies did. We have some new problems and lack some of their problems. They did some things better than we do. For instance, modern civilisation has caused more social alienation than existed in medieval times. This doesn't mean medieval times were better. This shows however that not everything gets better with time, certainly not the human moral condition.

I think that one of the the worst aspects of our epoch is the colonisation of human consciousness by consumerism. Ed Bernays and his followers abused the research of Freud and other psychoanalysts in order to effectively create false needs, and sell false solutions for them. The OP's complaint about widespread binge drinking is a consequence of this.

Joe1919

Húrin wrote: »

Where are we going?



...I think that one of the the worst aspects of our epoch is the colonisation of human consciousness by consumerism. Ed Bernays and his followers abused the research of Freud and other psychoanalysts in order to effectively create false needs, and sell false solutions for them.... .

I agree with you here. I think the modern so called 'sophisticated' twenty-first century man's mind is stuffed with as much myths and superstitions as ever. We are exposed to a huge amount of advertising telling us what we 'must' wear and what we 'must' consume.

lovethespots

I will agree with Joe in that the media guides and defines the masses yet exploits those that follows the path media takes them down, therefore what the masses see are reflections of themselves. That leads those who have made a conscious effort to look for and recognize such explotation and exageration to be bombarded with the ignorance perpetuated by the media. Does that make sense? So it appears on the surface that humanity is losing ground intellectually, that common sense is becoming a thing of the past, that logic no longer exists but that is only because that is what it demonstrated/shown. But intellect, thinking, and educational stories don't make money--scandal, sex, and greed does. But can we blame the media for doing what every business does: selling a product that people want? Or has the media created a product the people want?

My apologies for veering from the original issue. I don't think that humanity is going backwards, but that is what we are fed as a general public.

furrylemmings

Different portions of society are moving in different directions really. We are by no means one united race yet, so we cant really generalise like that. Things over here might spiral downward. But im sure somewhere else the opposite is happening. It'll always be like that.

nyarlothothep

lovethespots wrote: »

I will agree with Joe in that the media guides and defines the masses yet exploits those that follows the path media takes them down, therefore what the masses see are reflections of themselves. That leads those who have made a conscious effort to look for and recognize such explotation and exageration to be bombarded with the ignorance perpetuated by the media. Does that make sense? So it appears on the surface that humanity is losing ground intellectually, that common sense is becoming a thing of the past, that logic no longer exists but that is only because that is what it demonstrated/shown. But intellect, thinking, and educational stories don't make money--scandal, sex, and greed does. But can we blame the media for doing what every business does: selling a product that people want? Or has the media created a product the people want?

My apologies for veering from the original issue. I don't think that humanity is going backwards, but that is what we are fed as a general public.

Those are the two theories on how media output is received, I can't remember the names, something like the hypodermic needle model and something else.

As far as I can recall theory 1, crudely put, states that the media produces material it intends the audience to consume and the latter consumes and is influenced without much critical thought, a parent-child relationship.

The second model states that media material is negotiated by audiences, that they will put interpretations on output unintended by the producers.

I believe both models exist in tandem, however, imo it would be weighted more towards what producers want you to watch. I believe once you set the conditions of presentable material you limit the scope for possible interpretations. This naturally works in favour of elites and interest groups. This is what the media to me is, the informational arm of ruling classes. I would also posit that its easier to manufacture trends and tastes which you can keep your finger on. Now they can be received in whatever way the audience wants but the producer will set the terms of the game as he/she owns the means of production. Also its usually in the interest of elites to keep the masses "dumb", that is distract them with reality tv and celeb gossip. To preserve a status quo system of control I think its easier to have a handle on peoples minds and this is achieved through the media.