Have buses stopped coming through UCD

The Agogo

Can anyone tell me if buses (17,10, 3, etc) have stopped coming through UCd after nine o'clock?

Stepherunie

Yep, all buses have stopped going through UCD after 8.30 until further notice.

According to some people they won't even stop outside UCD by the Montrose at the moment either.

jimmy-jazz

Stepherunie wrote: »

Yep, all buses have stopped going through UCD after 8.30 until further notice.

According to some people they won't even stop outside UCD by the Montrose at the moment either.

seen the 17 stoppin on campus around 11 o'clock tonight, just after i got off the 46a by the montrose.

Sad Professor

There's already a thread about this here.

Sometimes they go in and pick up, sometimes they don't. It seems to be left up to the driver.

In the case of the 10, if the driver is early he probably doesn't have much choice but to go into the campus terminus and wait. Of course if there's a big drunken crowd there he can always put up his out of service sign and pick up further along the route.

Raphael

Sad Professor wrote: »

There's already a thread about this here.

Sometimes they go in and pick up, sometimes they don't. It seems to be left up to the driver.

In the case of the 10, if the driver is early he probably doesn't have much choice but to go into the campus terminus and wait. Of course if there's a big drunken crowd there he can always put up his out of service sign and pick up further along the route.

What happens in that instance is he lets people off at the front gate, drives down the road a bit, and starts his route at the next stop.

Red Alert

Silly country people running amok in residences - I mean it happens every year, and that kind of behaviour just makes students into scangers. I think the university should make an example of the muck savages who abuse bus staff and vandalize buses by suspending them for a semester.

gubbie

Red Alert wrote: »

Silly country people running amok in residences - I mean it happens every year, and that kind of behaviour just makes students into scangers. I think the university should make an example of the muck savages who abuse bus staff and vandalize buses by suspending them for a semester.

True, yes. All the Bus Eireann drivers are black and blue from all the bate-ings they get from us

princess-sprkle

Red Alert wrote: »

Silly country people running amok in residences - I mean it happens every year, and that kind of behaviour just makes students into scangers. I think the university should make an example of the muck savages who abuse bus staff and vandalize buses by suspending them for a semester.

yeah, cause its never drunk people from dublin who've been in the bar all day doing it either?

bearded1

People causing trouble at the bus stop tend to have cans and bottles of wine. The bar does not let people leave with bottles of wine.

OT

Buses appear to be back on campus, though I'm not going to wait at a stop that has a large appearently drunk crowd at it.

Het-Field

bearded1 wrote: »

People causing trouble at the bus stop tend to have cans and bottles of wine. The bar does not let people leave with bottles of wine.

OT

Buses appear to be back on campus, though I'm not going to wait at a stop that has a large appearently drunk crowd at it.

So what !!!???!!! Its a public bus service, as such, it shouldnt be for the driver to decide who can and cant get on. As long as CIE remains a monopoly, I will continue to hate its guts and all it stands for.

Breezer

Het-Field wrote: »

So what !!!???!!! Its a public bus service, as such, it shouldnt be for the driver to decide who can and cant get on. As long as CIE remains a monopoly, I will continue to hate its guts and all it stands for.

If the driver feels that the people waiting at the stop are likely to be threatening towards him/her/other passengers, then I understand why he/she would be unwilling to pick them up. Everyone is entitled to a safe place of work; even the army has responsibilities in this regard.

But yes, competition should be introduced on the Dublin bus routes. Not trains though, that would cause chaos.

Het-Field

Breezer wrote: »

If the driver feels that the people waiting at the stop are likely to be threatening towards him/her/other passengers, then I understand why he/she would be unwilling to pick them up. Everyone is entitled to a safe place of work; even the army has responsibilities in this regard.

But yes, competition should be introduced on the Dublin bus routes. Not trains though, that would cause chaos.

In fairness a Bus Driver cannot always be sure that somebody is more likley to cause trouble just because they have a few drinks on them. Thousands of people use public transport each day. Im sure some are average people who want to get from place to plce, some have serious violent streaks in them, some are off their face on hard drugs, some look rough (ala Science Bum),some look highly professional. As a public service its not up to a bus driver to pick and choose who he takes on a bus. You never know who is using the damn thing.

Fearing of digressing too far, I believe that if the right provisions and infrastructure (which wouldnt be easy) is created, the privistisation of Irish rail, and the opening of the market could be quite beneficial. Remember, it services should always be geared towards consumer happiness. The deregulation of the taxi market has proven this. Since Bobby got it done, it is easy to get a taxi, and a far more efficient service is being provided

Breezer

Het-Field wrote: »

In fairness a Bus Driver cannot always be sure that somebody is more likley to cause trouble just because they have a few drinks on them. Thousands of people use public transport each day. Im sure some are average people who want to get from place to plce, some have serious violent streaks in them, some are off their face on hard drugs, some look rough (ala Science Bum),some look highly professional.

True, but there's such a thing as experience and informed judgement. In my (and I reckon most people's) experience, gangs of loud, drunk students are one of the demographics more likely to cause trouble.

As a public service its not up to a bus driver to pick and choose who he takes on a bus. You never know who is using the damn thing.

Who is it up to then? Are we to have a security man on every bus? Or should we just let everyone on, no matter how rowdy they look and regardless of precedent? I admit that relying on the driver's judgement is not an ideal situation, and is open to abuse, but can you think of a better one?

Fearing of digressing too far, I believe that if the right provisions and infrastructure (which wouldnt be easy) is created, the privistisation of Irish rail, and the opening of the market could be quite beneficial. Remember, it services should always be geared towards consumer happiness.

More companies operating trains would mean more rail accidents. Look at Britain for an example. If the right infrastructure were created, and public service reform were put in place, we could have an excellent rail system without the need for multiple operators. Deutsche Bahn operates all internal services in Germany, and while the company itself has problems, inefficiency of train services isn't one of them. Proper public service reform could address the type of problems Deutsche Bahn is experiencing.

OK, I'm done, no more about trains or we'll annoy the mods - PM me if you like or start a thread in Commuting and Transport

Het-Field

Breezer wrote: »

True, but there's such a thing as experience and informed judgement. In my (and I reckon most people's) experience, gangs of loud, drunk students are one of the demographics more likely to cause trouble.

Who is it up to then? Are we to have a security man on every bus? Or should we just let everyone on, no matter how rowdy they look and regardless of precedent? I admit that relying on the driver's judgement is not an ideal situation, and is open to abuse, but can you think of a better one?

More companies operating trains would mean more rail accidents. Look at Britain for an example. If the right infrastructure were created, and public service reform were put in place, we could have an excellent rail system without the need for multiple operators. Deutsche Bahn operates all internal services in Germany, and while the company itself has problems, inefficiency of train services isn't one of them. Proper public service reform could address the type of problems DB is experiencing.

OK, I'm done, no more about trains or we'll annoy the mods - PM me if you like or start a thread in Commuting and Transport

As a service which is paid for by the taxpayer, I feel it is not up to the State to decide who can get on and who cant. It is a generalisation to claim that drunks are more likely to casue trouble. I have been on the bus many a time with drunk friends, and no discomfort has ever been caused. If a bus driver feels that activity is ongoing which is creating a real risk, then it is up to him to eject that person. However, no bus driver should ever be given the prerogative to refuse entry to a public bus

Breezer

Het-Field wrote: »

As a service which is paid for by the taxpayer, I feel it is not up to the State to decide who can get on and who cant. It is a generalisation to claim that drunks are more likely to casue trouble. I have been on the bus many a time with drunk friends, and no discomfort has ever been caused. If a bus driver feels that activity is ongoing which is creating a real risk, then it is up to him to eject that person. However, no bus driver should ever be given the prerogative to refuse entry to a public bus

Many services are paid for by the taxpayer, and procedures are put in place to prevent a few eejits ruining them for the rest of us. In many cases, this involves a Garda presence. Having a Garda (or indeed security personnel) on board a bus would be a crazy waste of resources, and a driver is not trained or paid to physically remove people who are causing trouble.

It is much more preferable to have the driver, who is likely familiar with the route and trouble spots on it, to keep an eye out and make an informed judgement before the situation arises. It's not ideal, and I get as pissed off as anyone when buses don't stop, but short of putting security on the buses or forcing drivers into working conditions that I doubt you would accept yourself, what can you do?

Going back to what you said about taxis, many taxi drivers will not admit drunks either, despite being obliged to pick up a fare. Some will, depending on the situation. Again, it comes down to an informed judgement.

Stabshauptmann

Het-Field wrote: »

So what !!!???!!! Its a public bus service, as such, it shouldnt be for the driver to decide who can and cant get on. As long as CIE remains a monopoly, I will continue to hate its guts and all it stands for.

Its a company, who its owners are are irrelevant. Though its by no means desirable, ofcourse DublinBus should have the right to refuse unruly / dangerous passengers

passive

Het-Field wrote: »

It is a generalisation to claim that drunks are more likely to casue trouble.

You, sir, are an idiot.

Stabshauptmann

Het-Field wrote: »

In fairness a Bus Driver cannot always be sure that somebody is more likley to cause trouble just because they have a few drinks on them.

True, but you dont sound like you understand the situation. the last bus on a Wednesday and Thursday has crowds of about 200 waiting for it. There is more than enough evidence to form an opinion on this stop and this time.

Fearing of digressing too far, I believe that if the right provisions and infrastructure (which wouldnt be easy) is created, the privistisation of Irish rail, and the opening of the market could be quite beneficial. Remember, it services should always be geared towards consumer happiness. The deregulation of the taxi market has proven this. Since Bobby got it done, it is easy to get a taxi, and a far more efficient service is being provided

Taxis and Rail service are not comparable. For a look at the privatisation of a rail network we need look no further than the UK. A far better organised country, with a travesty of a rail service.

Sad Professor

Het-Field wrote: »

However, no bus driver should ever be given the prerogative to refuse entry to a public bus

Yeah but it's not like the driver is putting his hand up and turning away certain people 'cause they're drunk or not wearing the right shoes. In this case he's simply not picking up from certain stops 'cause Dublin Bus says he doesn't have to. Like Breezer said the driver is responsible for the safety of everyone on board. If the bus became unsafe or too full he wouldn't stop either.

This boycott of the UCD campus really affects me and as I hung around waiting in the cold a few weeks ago I cursed the drivers and DB. But at the same time having witnessed the carry-on from students many nights I can't blame the driver for saying "f**k them" and driving right past.

Stabshauptmann

Before I begin, Id like to say that Ive often thought of your posts as quite well thought out Het-Field, but the ones in this thread are very poor.

Het-Field wrote: »

As a service which is paid for by the taxpayer, I feel it is not up to the State to decide who can get on and who cant.

That is retarded. Its a kin to telling a police man to do what you say 'cos you pay his wages[sic]. Its a company, run like any other company, who its owners are is irrelevant.

And its actually for the benefit of the majority of passengers to remove the unruly / dangerous ones.

It is a generalisation to claim that drunks are more likely to casue trouble.

There is a difference between crude generalisations and statistical conclusions. At any rate I honestly dont believe that you believe that statement.

I have been on the bus many a time with drunk friends, and no discomfort has ever been caused. If a bus driver feels that activity is ongoing which is creating a real risk, then it is up to him to eject that person. However, no bus driver should ever be given the prerogative to refuse entry to a public bus

Its the crowd thats the problem. The drunk mob is whats causing the problem, one or two drunks by themselves the driver could probably handle.

Raphael

passive wrote: »

You, sir, are an idiot.

passive banned for a week for personal abuse. You should know better.

Het-Field

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

Before I begin, Id like to say that Ive often thought of your posts as quite well thought out Het-Field, but the ones in this thread are very poor.



That is retarded. Its a kin to telling a police man to do what you say 'cos you pay his wages[sic]. Its a company, run like any other company, who its owners are is irrelevant.

And its actually for the benefit of the majority of passengers to remove the unruly / dangerous ones.


There is a difference between crude generalisations and statistical conclusions. At any rate I honestly dont believe that you believe that statement.



Its the crowd thats the problem. The drunk mob is whats causing the problem, one or two drunks by themselves the driver could probably handle.

I suppose my (admittedly irrational attitude, for the above posts) has much to do with my hatred for Dublin Bus and all it stands for.

The owners of the company play a huge role in the quality of its services. As a subsidiary of CIE, the State owns Dublin Bus, and have allowed a lax and slipshod mentality prevail. Services in other countries have a wonderful record in public transport. Not in Dublin Bus's case. How many times have you been left at a Bus Stop for 30 odd mins before a bus arrives ?? How many times has the interior of the bus been so filthy that you feel uncomfortable sitting in the seats ? How many times has the bus driver addressed you in an ignorant manner ?? I find that disgraceful given the huge amount of money the user puts into the service through their taxes, and the toll to use the service itself. The owners are failing in this case, and are happy to allow threatened strike action whenever it arises. In the hands of a private owner, it would be far more efficient. Profits would be the mantra, and if the user doesnt like the drivers of its busses, then they can switch services.

Stabshauptmann

But there would be the problem of unprofitable routes that I just dont want to go down, and the unsubsidised cost of the fare...

gubbie

Het-Field wrote: »

I suppose my (admittedly irrational attitude, for the above posts) has much to do with my hatred for Dublin Bus and all it stands for.

The owners of the company play a huge role in the quality of its services. As a subsidiary of CIE, the State owns Dublin Bus, and have allowed a lax and slipshod mentality prevail. Services in other countries have a wonderful record in public transport. Not in Dublin Bus's case. How many times have you been left at a Bus Stop for 30 odd mins before a bus arrives ?? How many times has the interior of the bus been so filthy that you feel uncomfortable sitting in the seats ? How many times has the bus driver addressed you in an ignorant manner ?? I find that disgraceful given the huge amount of money the user puts into the service through their taxes, and the toll to use the service itself. The owners are failing in this case, and are happy to allow threatened strike action whenever it arises. In the hands of a private owner, it would be far more efficient. Profits would be the mantra, and if the user doesnt like the drivers of its busses, then they can switch services.

"Other countries"?

I've also been in other countries where the bus service was far far worse then Dublin Bus

Heck I've been in counties with far worse service then Dublin bus (all of them)

Breezer

gubbie wrote: »

"Other countries"?

I've also been in other countries where the bus service was far far worse then Dublin Bus

Heck I've been in counties with far worse service then Dublin bus (all of them)

You can't compare a rural area to a capital city, although I agree that services need to be improved in our other cities (as well as rural areas, though obviously not to the same extent).

While I've also been to countries with worse public transport than Ireland, I can vouch that Dublin is light years behind London, Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, Berlin, Frankfurt and Budapest (yes, Budapest).

Changes are needed. But forcing drivers and other passengers into potentially threatening situations isn't one of them.

Red Alert

Are some people here actually saying that it's OK for this type of behaviour to take place and that the driver shouldn't be allowed prevent people getting on who might damage the bus?

Breezer

Red Alert wrote: »

Are some people here actually saying that it's OK for this type of behaviour to take place and that the driver shouldn't be allowed prevent people getting on who might damage the bus?

Well Het-Field did, but then he admitted he was being completely irrational

Het-Field

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

But there would be the problem of unprofitable routes that I just dont want to go down, and the unsubsidised cost of the fare...

This can be mitigated by the Government's service which can act in competition with the other services.

Like the introduction of Ryanair, the fee would eventually settle itself down.

In response to Gubbie, if you are attempting to compare Dublin Bus with what you saw in the Middle East or the far east then you are not only barking up the wrong tree, your in a different forrest. Breezer has adequately articulated places where the service is far better than that of Dublin Bus

gubbie

Breezer wrote: »

You can't compare a rural area to a capital city, although I agree that services need to be improved in our other cities (as well as rural areas, though obviously not to the same extent).

While I've also been to countries with worse public transport than Ireland, I can vouch that Dublin is light years behind London, Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, Berlin, Frankfurt and Budapest (yes, Budapest).

Changes are needed. But forcing drivers and other passengers into potentially threatening situations isn't one of them.

Cork can hardly be considered "rural" and yet the most frequent buses come every 20 minutes at the best of times. And no bus lanes. Its quicker to walk. Fix that problem first and then I'll be sympathetic with Dublin's inadequate transport system

How can you compare cities like London and Paris, with almost 10 times Dublin's capacity with ours. Or Berlin. You might as well say that London has a terrible transport system compared to New York. SCALE PEOPLE

I'd also disagree with Budapest having a better transport system. Just because they have a metro line going down a long street doesn't make it better when they've got twice the population

I was comparing like with like. Dublin has a population of 1 million so it should be compared with other citys with similar populations. Maybe ye should go to such cities instead of complaining that its not up to London's standard. Amsterdam and Frankfurt are the only things thrown out and I can't talk about them because I didn't use the transport while I was in either. Vienna would have been the best city to throw out there

Breezer

gubbie wrote: »

Cork can hardly be considered "rural" and yet the most frequent buses come every 20 minutes at the best of times. And no bus lanes. Its quicker to walk. Fix that problem first and then I'll be sympathetic with Dublin's inadequate transport system

Like I said:

Breezer wrote:

although I agree that services need to be improved in our other cities

But like it or not gubbie, Dublin is our capital city, has 1/3 - 1/4 of the country's population, and therefore receives priority.

I'd also disagree with Budapest having a better transport system. Just because they have a metro line going down a long street doesn't make it better when they've got twice the population

And trams all over the place. With a heck of a lot less money.

I was comparing like with like. Dublin has a population of 1 million so it should be compared with other citys with similar populations. Maybe ye should go to such cities instead of complaining that its not up to London's standard. Amsterdam and Frankfurt are the only things thrown out and I can't talk about them because I didn't use the transport while I was in either. Vienna would have been the best city to throw out there

Fine, I'll take you up on that. Frankfurt has half the population, is far smaller geographically, and still manages to have 7 underground lines, 9 suburban rail lines with trains every 5 minutes throughout the day (which runs from 4am to 1am) at the main stations, God knows how many tram lines (at least 12), and an excellent bus system, with integrated ticketing and services that link up with each other at multiple stops (one station actually has 4 levels to facilitate various modes of transport).

Dublin has an awful transport system, and the fact that the rest of the country is worse doesn't make that any better.

Red Alert

If you dick around on many of these better public transport systems you'll find the police will arrest you. None of this softly-softly stuff like we have here.