Anti-Social Behaviour

dardevle

i apologise if my engaging with you on this subject is
causing you discomfort and while i am sure that irishlostboy
is well capable of speaking for himself, i do notice that while you berate him for not putting himself on the line and reporting the gardai- the only solution you propose is to form vigilante gangs.:eek:

if the poster says that the gardai refused to take a statement from him,
should i not believe him because you say it did'nt happen?

Sligored

dardevle wrote: »

i apologise if my engaging with you on this subject is
causing you discomfort and while i am sure that irishlostboy
is well capable of speaking for himself, i do notice that while you berate him for not putting himself on the line and reporting the gardai- the only solution you propose is to form vigilante gangs.:eek:

if the poster says that the gardai refused to take a statement from him,
should i not believe him because you say it did'nt happen?

you like him keep avoiding my question to the thread which is

what does he want the lay people of sligo to do to stop this criminality?

answer this and this only

ps i dont want a vigilante group. i just suggested this to try and tease an answer to my question which for your benefit i will repeat again.

what does he want the lay people of sligo to do to stop this criminality?

dardevle

i dont have an answer to this question,
perhaps the appropriate response would be a combination of some of the
useful suggestions posted previously(not the vigilante one).

instead of asking "what can we do" it may be more
pertinent to ask yourself "what am i prepared to do"

Sligored

dardevle wrote: »

i dont have an answer to this question,
perhaps the appropriate response would be a combination of some of the
useful suggestions posted previously(not the vigilante one).

instead of asking "what can we do" it may be more
pertinent to ask yourself "what am i prepared to do"

i hate risking a violation but you are an idiot daredevil.

this thread is about discussing violence and anti social behaviour in sligo and irishlostboy has said the lay people of sligo should do more to combat violence and criminality and i quote from irishlostboy i still live in (vain) hope that the actual residents and locals (the people who actually have a voice and community) of the town take a good hard look at the level of crime they support through ignoring the problem. the price of such permisive ignorance will be paid, with interest, eventually..

is it too much to ask to ask him to support his theory with a realistic solution.

all i expect from you daredevil is another backup of your buddy but no worthwhile addition to the thread we are trying to discuss here. i have no idea what i can do to combat this criminality.

Maybe i am not making my point clearly and if not i apologise but i am not prepared to listen to bulls*** on here running down the people of sligo.

dardevle

as i said before there have been many posts on this topic and
to my knowledge nobody so far has come up with a realistic soloution
to it,nevertheless it makes for interesting discussion and perhaps something worthwhile will come out of it,who knows...but bulling a single poster because there experience differs from yours does not help.


as for the name calling...no need to apologise i'm from Sligo,
were very thick skinned..so here's hoping you don't get violated

TequilaMockingBird

Lol.

Sligored

dardevle wrote: »

as i said before there have been many posts on this topic and
to my knowledge nobody so far has come up with a realistic soloution
to it,nevertheless it makes for interesting discussion and perhaps something worthwhile will come out of it,who knows...but bulling a single poster because there experience differs from yours does not help.


as for the name calling...no need to apologise i'm from Sligo,
were very thick skinned..so here's hoping you don't get violated

another fudge the issue.. thats what i would expect from daredevle. and it does not make interesting discussion if the point he made is not clarified. it might in baby infants but not on here.

for the 5th time i am going to ask what can the lay people of sligo do to lessen criminality.

i am so pi**ed off with people coming on here giving out about the town and people of sligo and then disappearing back into a black hole.

sad people to say the least.

dardevle

as you said yourself, five times now you have asked for THE ANSWER
to a vast and complex problem from someone else.
what makes you think that he has the answer?
there have been other posters that have said negative things about
sligo(in the anti-social behaviour -sligo thread!)but you seem fixated
on this poster and one wonders at this stage if perhaps there is something personal in it?

let me state that i have never met irishlostboy and am not his buddy
but i would share in his "hope" that we find a solution to this problem,


and while your concern for the reputation of the people and the town is admirable... imo the solution will have to include the deprived youth of the town or "mongrels" as you call them,providing alternatives for them,perhaps the application of asbo's,maybe the introduction of
a curfew and possibly the changing of trading hours for
fast food outlets coupled with more responsible policing and a judicial
system with some backbone,just my opinion mind you and if you feel i'm being to hard on the people of sligo...it's only because i care.

Sligored

dardevle wrote: »

as you said yourself, five times now you have asked for THE ANSWER
to a vast and complex problem from someone else.
what makes you think that he has the answer?
there have been other posters that have said negative things about
sligo(in the anti-social behaviour -sligo thread!)but you seem fixated
on this poster and one wonders at this stage if perhaps there is something personal in it?

let me state that i have never met irishlostboy and am not his buddy
but i would share in his "hope" that we find a solution to this problem,


and while your concern for the reputation of the people and the town is admirable... imo the solution will have to include the deprived youth of the town or "mongrels" as you call them,providing alternatives for them,perhaps the application of asbo's,maybe the introduction of
a curfew and possibly the changing of trading hours for
fast food outlets coupled with more responsible policing and a judicial
system with some backbone,just my opinion mind you and if you feel i'm being to hard on the people of sligo...it's only because i care.

irishlostboy said clearly the sligo people should do more but what more can we do. He made a statement and needs to back it up.

dardevle

irishlostboy wrote: »

. i still live in (vain) hope that the actual residents and locals (the people who actually have a voice and community) of the town take a good hard look at the level of crime they support through ignoring the problem..... , i hope this post gives people of sligo something to think about. .

this is what he asks...not asking for too much and while his post
contained plenty of negativity, inspite of his experience he still retains some hope.

Xiney

right, can it guys.

no more petty arguing back and forth or I'm locking the thread.

EuskalHerria

It is very clear that the gardai do not have control of anti-social behavious in the town. Late night weekends belong to knackers looking for trouble. The gardai go around the town looking for soft targets to make it appear that they are trying to combat the situation but I think anyone that is around the town after the nightclubs close know that the gardai have no control of the problem and don't seem entirely interested in trying to control the problem.

There have been numerous posts here from people saying that they would not approach town after a certain hour. That is a sad state of affairs. People should be able to enjoy a night out and be able to spend their remaining money on the junk food in the fast food places if they wish. Without feeling threatened by the groups of yobs with cans walking around the top of o'connell street, hoods up and looking for trouble!

As for actually walking down O'Connell street at night? Might aswell wear a target sign on your top. The gards are meant to patrol the street from tubbergall lane but can't be asking them to get out of the van in this weather.

CSC

No offence but I think your post Euskal Herria is a distorted view of reality in Sligo e.g Gardai going around town looking for soft targets, not coming out of vans because of the weather.
As I said previously, I feel Sligo was a lot rougher in the mid to late '90s when I was a teenager growing up and I can think off hand of numerous examples to illustrate my point. That's not to say that there isn't outbreaks of trouble at the weekend like in every other Irish town/city but I generally find if you are not looking for it you won't find it.

EuskalHerria

CSC wrote: »

No offence but I think your post Euskal Herria is a distorted view of reality in Sligo e.g Gardai going around town looking for soft targets, not coming out of vans because of the weather.
As I said previously, I feel Sligo was a lot rougher in the mid to late '90s when I was a teenager growing up and I can think off hand of numerous examples to illustrate my point. That's not to say that there isn't outbreaks of trouble at the weekend like in every other Irish town/city but I generally find if you are not looking for it you won't find it.

If you are around the town tonight I can guarentee you will see the usual gang of hoods at the O2 shop and you'll more than likely be able to view a fiight at the four lights. The gardai will be circling the town and tckle the odd drunk rather than tackle the group of hoods that are at the O2 shop week in week out without fail and without fear of being confronted by the gardai.

Look I am not trying to perpetuate a stereotype of the gardai just calling it as most can see it on a weekend. The gardai do tend to go for the sloppy drunkard rather than tackling and trying to disband the group of hoods that are drinking at the O2 corner every week.

CSC

In defence of the Gardai there is little they can do to a group of young people who congregrate on a street corner on Saturday night. The Guards can move the group on to another part of town or the areas they are from where they would be little Garda presence.
As for the Guards arresting people who are drunk; I have been on many nights out in town and the abuse I have seen Guards take from kids/adults who have had too much to drink is obscene. I have often wondered how more are not arrested for being drunk and disorderly at the weekend.
I personally would like the Guards to tackle the organised crime gangs in town. I don't live in Sligo anymore (even though I am up and down quite a bit) but I could take a good guess at the names of all the main players in the drug game. I'm sure every local could do the same. As the recent spate of shootings over the last few years have shown Sligo has the potential to follow the route of what has happened in Limerick.

slapbangwhallop

EuskalHerria wrote: »

It is very clear that the gardai do not have control of anti-social behavious in the town. Late night weekends belong to knackers looking for trouble. The gardai go around the town looking for soft targets to make it appear that they are trying to combat the situation but I think anyone that is around the town after the nightclubs close know that the gardai have no control of the problem and don't seem entirely interested in trying to control the problem.

There have been numerous posts here from people saying that they would not approach town after a certain hour. That is a sad state of affairs. People should be able to enjoy a night out and be able to spend their remaining money on the junk food in the fast food places if they wish. Without feeling threatened by the groups of yobs with cans walking around the top of o'connell street, hoods up and looking for trouble!

As for actually walking down O'Connell street at night? Might aswell wear a target sign on your top. The gards are meant to patrol the street from tubbergall lane but can't be asking them to get out of the van in this weather.

País Vasco, I argee with a lot of what you have said and I personally have no reason to disbelieve the "stories" told by the guy that worked in the 4 Lights.

As this is an Anti-Social Behaviour thread and not a Orangised Crime thread then it should be pointed out that in whats known as the Ring (area between Abra-ka-stab-ra and the Four lights) there isnt a "gang" problem at this time in this area - its simply knackers serving their apprenticeships.

These guys are either barred from the clubs or have no money to get in and standing around outside the takeaway IS their entertainment for the night. They can have a bit of craic (or what they see as craic), see whos floatin about, get a scoff, maybe start a fight and thereby look hard to some equally low life girls that might be a little tipsy after coming out of the clubs or at least watch a fight and finally pick up a girl - these usually fall into the demographic of some younger girl from Balintogher, Standhill or Rosses Point and is looking to get "accepted" into "town culture".

Like CSC says its no different then when I was at that stage (and may have hung around on those corners, and may have had fights and the rest) and it was going on in my ould fellas day outside the Silver Slipper in Strandhill or the Gillholey Hall or whereever they where and it was happening in my grandfathers day usually along Castle Street and Lady Erin.

Cops didnt give a sh1t then and they dont know - I have a jaundiced of police in the town and I am happy to "perpetuate a stereotype of the gardai" because my dealing with them have showen them in a pretty poor light. How hard is it to have TWO coppers (outside of a van) standing at the top of O'Connell street for three hours a night on weekend nights. Its easier and more profitable to stop speeders then to get yer hands dirty with actual crime.

This issue isnt anything new - simple stay away from the top of O'Connell Street between 11pm and 3am Thursday to Saturday nights if you want to decrease your chances of being the recipient of a stray slap in the jaw. Its not a big restriction of yer life - if you want to get across town use Wine Street, if you want a scoff go to Mollys or the Happy Eater.

Yes I know my spelling it terrible but it doenst make my point invalid.

EuskalHerria

CSC wrote: »

In defence of the Gardai there is little they can do to a group of young people who congregrate on a street corner on Saturday night. The Guards can move the group on to another part of town or the areas they are from where they would be little Garda presence.
As for the Guards arresting people who are drunk; I have been on many nights out in town and the abuse I have seen Guards take from kids/adults who have had too much to drink is obscene. I have often wondered how more are not arrested for being drunk and disorderly at the weekend.
I personally would like the Guards to tackle the organised crime gangs in town. I don't live in Sligo anymore (even though I am up and down quite a bit) but I could take a good guess at the names of all the main players in the drug game. I'm sure every local could do the same. As the recent spate of shootings over the last few years have shown Sligo has the potential to follow the route of what has happened in Limerick.

Only too true unfortunately. I mean don't get me wrong I realise the difficult job the gardai do and with an uncle working in limerick (moyross beleive it or not) I hear the hard truth about their job.

The thing is I do not believe we are on par with limerick yet, thankfully, and a few teens who are above 18 and are drinking cans in public gives the gardai chance to make at the very least an example of them. These people are continuously causing trouble and why wouldn't they continue if they have no consequences to suffer? I mean this problem needs to be rooted out now before the possibility that this anti social behaviour escalates to more serious problems.

By that I mean it is obvious that there are a large amount of teens being recruited by the main drug dealing family to go do their bidding and this needs to be stpped.EVeryone here more than likely knows exactly who and what i am talking about but until it is someone related to them that is doing this then theya re more than willing to let it be as long as it does not affect them immediately, which while is natural is still slightly disapointing.

GG66

There are well known tactics of such scumbags of baiting Gardai.. i.e starting fights with the purpose of luring them in and then mobbing them.. This is the main reason they are instructed not to intervene.

Only last year a couple of Gardai who went to assist a young woman outside abrakestabra were set upon and heavily thrashed while the rest of the general public looked on and did nothing ...

These guys don't give a S**t if there are Garda around or not. I've been going out in Sligo for long enough to know that you just don't go near that side of O Connell st when everyone is boozed up... or at least when you do you have your wits about you, there's always some frustrated ejit looking to be BIG.

I've never had any real trouble in Sligo and I've been going out there as long as anyone else who has posted here. I know how to avoid it or talk my way through it. I've been started on a few times but I've seen the same drunken behaviour all over the world.

As for suggestions on how to combat it...

Give young people places to go... The same options I had years ago are still available .. hand around the streets because your too young to get into pubs and what else is there?

Hold parents responsible for anti social behaviour of their children -- fine them at the very least!

Stagger Pub closing times so everyone doesn't hit the chipper at the same time..

I never liked any of Michael Mc Dowell's policies but his proposal to bring in more cafe bars where food is served with alcohol was a good one. Everyones good judgement is impaired when pissed and even quiet people are likely to respond to provocation in a way that they might not when sober..

Oh yeah ... ban children from throwing snowballs - we can't have that

il gatto

GardaI do have a tendency towards soft targets. My own brother and his mates were recently seached for drugs on Castle Street (including in their socks), even though respectably dressed and only slightly tipsy. They were stunned to be frisked for no apparent reason. The same Guards kept their distance when there was a fight a few minutes later outside McHugh's. While within their rights to search people for drugs, why pick random revellers doing nothing noteworthy and then ignore an act of violence minutes later?
I don't think it serves anyone to shoot down anecdotal evidence because it doesn't carry the official stamp of media coverage or official statistics. Nobody here stands to gain from stories about anti social behavior. I have seen alot of similar things to what people have posted here so have no reason to disbelieve other people's experiences.
Personally I'm not that bothered if people feel the need to blast what I say about Sligo's anti social behaviour. I know it's happening, I see it happening. Whether someone who knows better than me (or thinks they do) can assure me I couldn't have seen such a thing or that these things are as bad elsewhere, I don't mind. On several other threads here before, people were at pains to defend Sligo's good name, giving no credence or consideration to other's experience of the town.
I spend alot of time in town at night in connection with my job and there is a problem. It's not being dealt with and it will get worse as a result. Sometimes the randomness of the behaviour is what suprises people, whether it's randomly putting in a car window or knocking someone to the ground before lacing them with kicks. It happens and it happens often. The Guards don't care and the local media don't care. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen and as such ignoring the problem does nothing to stop it.
And bringing the Gardai before the ombudsman is not something that decent people do lightly. We should question why the current system allows Gardai to tell people they won't take a statement (this also happens, though thankfully not too often) as opposed to expecting a member of the public to kick up a stink through official lines over it.

EuskalHerria

There are well known tactics of such scumbags of baiting Gardai.. i.e starting fights with the purpose of luring them in and then mobbing them.. This is the main reason they are instructed not to intervene.

Only last year a couple of Gardai who went to assist a young woman outside abrakestabra were set upon and heavily thrashed while the rest of the general public looked on and did nothing ...

Do you think the gardai should not respond to a fight because they maybe ambushed? First of all I do not think the scumbags in the town are able to think that far ahead and secondly this only justifies calling for more gardai on the streets at night.

As for the fight in question. The gardai went in with heavy handed tactics and attacked a young girl which brought a few scumbags in disgusted. I will never justify the actions of the scumbags who done what they did to the gardai and the girl who was jumped was a neighbour of mine, but again the way in which the gardai dealt with the situation leaves a lot to be desired.

These guys don't give a S**t if there are Garda around or not. I've been going out in Sligo for long enough to know that you just don't go near that side of O Connell st when everyone is boozed up... or at least when you do you have your wits about you, there's always some frustrated ejit looking to be BIG.

True they do not care about the gardai's presence now, but why would they when they are allowed get away with whatever they want and never or very rarely have to face consequences of their actions? There is nothing to deter these people therefore there is nothing to stop them.

As for suggestions on how to combat it...

Give young people places to go... The same options I had years ago are still available .. hand around the streets because your too young to get into pubs and what else is there?

Hold parents responsible for anti social behaviour of their children -- fine them at the very least!

Stagger Pub closing times so everyone doesn't hit the chipper at the same time..

Couldn't agree more with the issue of changing pub closing times. There has to be a way nationally if not locally to combat late night closing times resulting in everyone coming on to the streets at the one time. A lot of the lads hanging around on the corner know exactly what time everyone is out of the clubs and pubs at so they come in specifically for that time of night and look for trouble.

Things have to change and although change is not easy it is not as impossible either.

1. The gardai need to have more of a presence on the streets. Prosecution for even a minor offence will deter those who have committed the offence. Although this will not stop nightcrime especially drunken fights that are inevitable, it will help prevent these hoods from standing looking for trouble on the streets.

2. There has to be either a local or national change in reugalitons that lead to all nightclubs and pubs closing at the same time.

darealtulip

Do Gardai not know that you can get hurt on the job when you become one? If you dont want to be at risk you shouldnt become a garda.

GG66

EuskalHerria wrote: »

Do you think the gardai should not respond to a fight because they maybe ambushed? First of all I do not think the scumbags in the town are able to think that far ahead and secondly this only justifies calling for more gardai on the streets at night.

No, I don't think they should but having asked a couple of them this is what they are instructed to do. There are also lots of situations that are domestic or drink fueled by both parties. I expect it's a hard one to call whether to intervene or not. I'm not defending it just trying to understnad their position.

The general feedback is that the courts system is to blame for a lot of the inaction. Garda do their job to bring people before the courts only for them .. to get off on a technicality etc so apathy sets in. "They can do whatever they like" is a quote from one very dedicated Garda I know

darealtulip wrote: »

Do Gardai not know that you can get hurt on the job when you become one? If you dont want to be at risk you shouldnt become a garda.

I expect they do and a lot of them go beyond what normal people would endure on a daily basis dealing with total scum. As in every job their are lazy sods who want a cushy life. They are also understaffed, bogged down in paper work and frustrated by smart solicitors and an inefficient judicial system.

I'd like to see more garda on the streets but I'm not convinced it's the answer

Tigger

sligo is a tough town it was a tough town when i moived here in '96 and its worse now
there is/was an aspiration for kids from strandhill to garavouge to be criminals

i've seen the nicest of 16 year olds from good families turn into the nastiest scumbags

its nothing top do with boredom or soceity its to do with an aspiration to be tough and to be thought of as tough in sligo.

i 've been a student a taxi driver and a security gaurd in this town and its not about standing up for your self or looking confident

i've had people start on me just to show their mates they are brave

good strong work camp based community service and forcing people to work for their dole would be a start but sligo is a tough town and its only gonna get worse unless some radical sovial reform is brought in

il gatto

Any Guard that complains that the courts are letting people away and that they're frustrated and demoralised (as they have often claimed in the media) should have it explained to them that they are paid to uphold the law and arrest and bring charges against those who break it. Whether a judge sentences a person, gives tham a slap on the wrist or gives them a big hug before wishing them luck and sending them away a free man, is no concern of the Gardai. They're paid to do a job so they should do it. If a janitor tells his boss he didn't bother emptying the bins as they'd only be full the next day, how long would he keep his job?
And if Gardai are standing back looking at fights under the barely plausible direction that it may be an ambush? That's almost laughable. Fighting is breaking several laws. The Gardai have an obligation to get involved. If they don't want to risk it, quit. Any Guard of superior rank who gives instruction to not intervene in violent assault should be named, shamed and fired.
I'm not saying I don't believe they're told this as it often seems to fit their actions, and there should be more Gardai on duty at these times, but it doesn't make it right or legal.
Maybe they should review why there seems to be at least as many Gardai on the street on a quiet Tuesday night as a mental Wednesday or Thursday. The roster doesn't seem to reflest the reality on the street. It was lovely during the rally last year to see so many Guards around, and many of them clearly from towns where scumbaggery is not acceptable. I seen several people hauled away in cuffs for things the local Gardai would pretend they didn't see.

GG66

il gatto wrote: »

Any Guard that complains that the courts are letting people away and that they're frustrated and demoralised (as they have often claimed in the media) should have it explained to them that they are paid to uphold the law and arrest and bring charges against those who break it. Whether a judge sentences a person, gives tham a slap on the wrist or gives them a big hug before wishing them luck and sending them away a free man, is no concern of the Gardai. They're paid to do a job so they should do it. If a janitor tells his boss he didn't bother emptying the bins as they'd only be full the next day, how long would he keep his job?

Yes, and Gardai who are under resourced should have the ability to choose how his/her time is spent most effectively. Hauling juveniles before a system that has no penalty or nowhere to put them could be considered a waste of time compared to other actions..

I rarely see Gardai on the street in Sligo however.. Anyone got any idea on what they spend their time on?

chickenhawk

GG66 wrote: »

I rarely see Gardai on the street in Sligo however.. Anyone got any idea on what they spend their time on?

Pulling people doing 106kph in a 100kph zone and yet they are all busy while joyriders are pulling doughnuts on the dual carriageway.

I was outside the garda station on new years eve in a bus. Two cops were standing outside the station and someone throws a bottle at them. It hits the wall beside them. The two guards see who it was and just walk into the station. They chose their jobs they should flipping do them.

slapbangwhallop

chickenhawk wrote: »

Pulling people doing 106kph in a 100kph zone and yet they are all busy while joyriders are pulling doughnuts on the dual carriageway.

I was outside the garda station on new years eve in a bus. Two cops were standing outside the station and someone throws a bottle at them. It hits the wall beside them. The two guards see who it was and just walk into the station. They chose their jobs they should flipping do them.

thats not even a joke. I was walkin home at christmas with a mate ("known" character but I grew up with him and you down make new old friends) and a young fella that knew my mate pulled up and offered us a lift home. The wee fecker only pulled a doughnut as he sped across Hughes Bridge - nearly sh1t meself!

il gatto

GG66 wrote: »

Yes, and Gardai who are under resourced should have the ability to choose how his/her time is spent most effectively. Hauling juveniles before a system that has no penalty or nowhere to put them could be considered a waste of time compared to other actions..

I rarely see Gardai on the street in Sligo however.. Anyone got any idea on what they spend their time on?

No they shouldn't. Why should they? Firstly they have to uphold the law. There are plenty of penalties for juveniles, but Gardai seem keen to propagate the "under 18, can't touch them" fallacy. If it turns out to be a waste of time, then the courts need to be asked questions, but that doesn't give Gardai an excuse to just not bother. And alot of these crimes involve assault and bodily harm, so there should be no excuses accepted for turning a blind eye to them.
They spend an inordinate amount of time on the roads out of town between lunchtime and sevenish in the evening, reversed into all kinds hedges and gateways (they're nothing if not imaginative at hide and seek). Then the roster seems to go a bit quiet. Occassionally then at night they seem to be seen in adequate numbers, in many cases avoiding confronting troublemakers at all costs. Usually at night though, you'll find them breathalysing and checking tax discs like it was going out of fashion (long before closing time usually though).
I believe there was serious problems for years with Gardai changing when they came in on the rota constantly. It culminated with three cases being thrown out of court a couple of years ago as the Gardai bringing the cases were "off" that day and decided they didn't need to show up. The judge laid into them, but I suspect it may be happening again with the randomness of the police presence at night in town.

shellyriver

re boy racer - why didn't you lob a snow-ball his way? that would have sorted him out? he probably had just lost his job and would have got out of car and chased you up pedestrianised O'Connell,- u blubbing like a distressed wench and then kept a keen eye peeled for months. Always remember, to automate 'rage-mode', throw snow-ball:D