Start up loans question

BluntEnnis

Hello all, I'm hoping someone can help me!

I've my business plan finished, and it's looking like it should be quite profitable.

I reckon I need about €6,500 to get it up and running and should have this paid back in a fairly short amount of time if I can get the €6,500.

Only problem is, I dont have any money at all really myself. By the time I move myself down to the town I'm going to my personal savings will probably be gone!

I'm also 19 and have no credit rating, but now really is the time to act with my business. It's a strong business plan however, how are banks these days for lending to people in my situation?

I've been looking at rates and I've decided Ulster Bank is the one for me.

Only, can someone tell me if this finance is available to me before I start trading? Or does anyone know of lenders that give you access to a start-up loan before I start trading?
I need money for the retail unit, stock, furnishings, everything really!

Thanks in advance!

Bandara

BluntEnnis wrote: »

Hello all, I'm hoping someone can help me!

I've my business plan finished, and it's looking like it should be quite profitable.

I reckon I need about €6,500 to get it up and running and should have this paid back in a fairly short amount of time if I can get the €6,500.

Only problem is, I dont have any money at all really myself. By the time I move myself down to the town I'm going to my personal savings will probably be gone!

I'm also 19 and have no credit rating, but now really is the time to act with my business. It's a strong business plan however, how are banks these days for lending to people in my situation?

I've been looking at rates and I've decided Ulster Bank is the one for me.

Only, can someone tell me if this finance is available to me before I start trading? Or does anyone know of lenders that give you access to a start-up loan before I start trading?
I need money for the retail unit, stock, furnishings, everything really!

Thanks in advance!

I'd be astounded if 6,500 is going to do this. You sure your not way under calculating things?

A retial unit unit will need some work to it to adapt to your business not to mention the landlord is goign to want money up front

BluntEnnis

Hammertime wrote: »

I'd be astounded if 6,500 is going to do this. You sure your not way under calculating things?

A retial unit unit will need some work to it to adapt to your business not to mention the landlord is goign to want money up front

Im pretty sure I'm about right, I've gone over it a few times!

I dont need very much in way of adapting the unit, a paint job (was painting up until now so I can do a good job myself), a few glass cabinets (can get them cheap from friend), shelves and signage is all I really need to open. Stock is relatively cheap.

I could very well be wrong about the money allocated for the landlord, I have the first months rent set aside. Will I also need a deposit of the same amount (or more?)? I wasnt sure on that.

Any thoughts on actually aquiring the finance?

Bandara

BluntEnnis wrote: »

Im pretty sure I'm about right, I've gone over it a few times!

I dont need very much in way of adapting the unit, a paint job (was painting up until now so I can do a good job myself), a few glass cabinets (can get them cheap from friend), shelves and signage is all I really need to open. Stock is relatively cheap.

I could very well be wrong about the money allocated for the landlord, I have the first months rent set aside. Will I also need a deposit? I wasnt sure on that.

Any thoughts on actually aquiring the finance?

For such a small amnount (I know its not small when you don't have it but it is in the scheme of things) I'd be looking at family really. The banks won't really want to know without some security etc.

If your currently employed you could get a car loan from them and use it for the business, if your con fident of paying it back soon it could be worth the expense of the interest on it to get you up and running.

I'm sure some of the more financially savvy people hear will be able to advise better.

BluntEnnis

Thanks Hammertime but unfortunately family isnt really an option for me!

mistermarketing

BluntEnnis wrote: »

Thanks Hammertime but unfortunately family isnt really an option for me!

Do you expect to be profitable in the first month of trading?

Have you carried out a full market evalution and footfall/demographic analysis of the proposed storefront location?

BluntEnnis

mistermarketing wrote: »

Do you expect to be profitable in the first month of trading?

Have you carried out a full market evalution and footfall/demographic analysis of the proposed storefront location?

Yes I do and yes I have!

It's a very broad market and it's a very sought after product, nearest competition very far away. I'm full sure of the business, it's just getting the money.

mistermarketing

BluntEnnis wrote: »

Yes I do and yes I have!

It's a very broad market and it's a very sought after product, nearest competition very far away. I'm full sure of the business, it's just getting the money.

Your selling just one product from this unit as you seem to say above???
And does this capital include expenditure on stock?

How can you stock a whole shop, fit out the shop so its appealing to potential customers, pay 1mnths rent and market/advertise the shop with -6k?...(as to be profitable you will need to spend €'s on all those things)

Also how much is your rent per month..?

Can you give us a rough idea what sector this product fits in to and maybe i can help you moreso?

The fault i see in this is, just say you happened not to be profitable in the first month (which believe you me is very possible)...then you will not have any back up money to pay the next months rent...and if this is the case you will be kiicked out of the shop....and the knock on effect will be that all this 6k will be lost due to the fact that you had no reserve to keep your head above the water until you were profitable(which in many shops case takes a few months).

Musha

Hi BluntEnnis,

Good luck with the new venture but your figures are very low even for a lowcost set up, Firstly the we just painted and cleaned a small retail unit nothing special walls, floor etc few shelves small kitchen sink cost was approx €700 no labour costs, landlord will require month one and security depoist another months rent + stamp duty+ vat.

Then there is signage and advertising and stock, an under stocked shop gives out a bad image. Phones internet if required etc customers will need to contact you and a landline gives a good impression

I would double your figures and then add some for good luck at least a few months wages for yourself until the company can begin to pay you from all those profits

BluntEnnis

Musha wrote: »

Hi BluntEnnis,

Good luck with the new venture but your figures are very low even for a lowcost set up, Firstly the we just painted and cleaned a small retail unit nothing special walls, floor etc few shelves small kitchen sink cost was approx €700 no labour costs, landlord will require month one and security depoist another months rent + stamp duty+ vat.

Then there is signage and advertising and stock, an under stocked shop gives out a bad image. Phones internet if required etc customers will need to contact you and a landline gives a good impression

I would double your figures and then add some for good luck at least a few months wages for yourself until the company can begin to pay you from all those profits

You see it's a very sought after product and i've no direct competition.
There's shops indentical to mine popping up all over the place anywhere they can fit them.
One guy ones 9 of them, so I'm not very comfortable with saying too much about it.

Really, once I have the key products, people will come back, I know that much of the market.
These products are what the shops are wanted for, everything thing else are accessorys to these products.

I know it would be wise to keep some extras funds just to play it safe, but wont adding this to my business plan harm my ability to get any money from the bank? €6500 with no money myself paid back swiftly sounds better to me than €13,000 with no money myself. I'll admit to being wrong however! I dont really have the time to save €50 a week on minumim wage given the rate at which these shops are opening!

On top of this the business feels very safe to me, no shops like it that have opened in towns like mine (and smaller) have failed. I have been in these shops and they are nothing special and most the staff have poor knowledge of the product, which is a key element in repeat and new customers.

Does anyone have any suggestions on where I would aquire funding? Would the banks have a big problem with the lack of initial security if they liked the business plan?

mistermarketing

No seriously mate you are young (so am i) with no experience in this field you have no idea how wrong you could be...!!!

i ask you how much thought was put into your bus plan??

i can tell you off hand you are underestimating costs...think electricity accountantcy fees...minor store breakages....a wage for yourself....stationary.....postal costs thats a feww hundred € already.

BluntEnnis wrote: »

You see it's a very sought after product and i've no direct competition.
There's shops indentical to mine popping up all over the place anywhere they can fit them.
One guy ones 9 of them, so I'm not very comfortable with saying too much about it.

How do you have no competition if these shops are popping up all over the place?....if this is the case then there is definately one planned to pop up in your town aswell...and this coulld happen while you are just a week into business immediately quashing your shops profits.

Do these shops your man owns look like they were fitted out with €6k? presentation/perception is everything.

How do you know this guy is making a profit?? don't always assume anyone is....some of the biggest companies make continuous losses but have good financial backing.

BluntEnnis wrote: »

Really, once I have the key products, people will come back. I know that much of the market.

Its a recession buddy, there is no way you can guarentee that...and are these people going to come back within that month? (cos you NEED to make profit byopening this way)

BluntEnnis wrote: »

I know it would be wise to keep some extras funds just to play it safe, but wont adding this to my business plan harm my ability to get any money from the bank? €6500 with no money myself paid back swiftly sounds better to me than €13,000 with no money myself.
I'll admit to being wrong however!

listen there is no gaurentee that it will be paid back "swiftly".
Confidence in your prod is great but ever don't automatically assume that its going to hit off.

could this prod just be a passing "fashion" prod which will dye out in a few months?

looking for more money will not look stupid to the bank....but looking for 6k will look stupid to the bank....anyway there is a 99% chance a teenager with no experience will be refused a bank loan...especially at a economical time like this.

i think its better having 13k and the business surviving rather than 6k and the business failing....what do you think???

BluntEnnis wrote: »

I dont really have the time to save €50 a week on minumim wage given the rate at which these shops are opening!

And you think that it won't take time to get a loan of 6k???

No seriously mate you are young (so am i) you have no idea how wrong you could be.

hmmm, coming from someone who gets so excited and passionate about business ideas, I'd be very careful about this, the figures sound completely wrong and totally unrealistic, plus you have loads of competition, everyone in the world does, you could "invent a cordless toaster that runs on fresh air, and butters your toast and makes you coffee" and someone has thought about it or is marketing it. Learn to live with competition, you will be much more relaxed when you realize this.

Mr Clonfadda

Hi BluntEnnis

The best place to get funding are the Enterprise Boards. Even if you think you need 6500 i would approach them looking for twice that. They may grant you money and or loan.They will also be able to give you advice as well.

I don't believe any Banks will give you money if you have no history with them but it might be a good idea to run through your presentation with them first as a practice before the enterprise boards.

Good luck

Alyosha

OP I think I know what kind of shop you want to open. Can't see the Enterprise Boards wanting to fund it though, even if it is legal. Definitely a market for the stuff though. There's one after opening in Wexford and always seems to be busy.

mistermarketing

Alyosha wrote: »

OP I think I know what kind of shop you want to open. Can't see the Enterprise Boards wanting to fund it though, even if it is legal. Definitely a market for the stuff though. There's one after opening in Wexford and always seems to be busy.

Hi Alyosha,

Can you share with us what type of shop this is, OP seems not too be too interested in this topic now that we have advised him.

I am very curious as to what type of shop this is, and want to do the math and see if it is possible to open a shop for this ridiculous amount of money.

A PM will suffice if you don't wish to post publicly.

Cheers

Bandara

mistermarketing wrote: »

Hi Alyosha,

Can you share with us what type of shop this is, OP seems not too be too interested in this topic now that we have advised him.

I am very curious as to what type of shop this is, and want to do the math and see if it is possible to open a shop for this ridiculous amount of money.

A PM will suffice if you don't wish to post publicly.

Cheers

With respect this is out of order, if this forum is to have any credibility then speculation and gossip about people business ideas has no place here, either publicly or via PM.

I know for a fact that the OP is very appreciative of the advice received here and has received a lot of additional assistance via PM from posters here.

Trying to figure out his business so you can profit off the back of his idea is disgraceful imo.

Thats just my feelings on it.

mistermarketing

Hammertime wrote: »

With respect this is out of order, if this forum is to have any credibility then speculation and gossip about people business ideas has no place here, either publicly or via PM.

I know for a fact that the OP is very appreciative of the advice received here and has received a lot of additional assistance via PM from posters here.

Trying to figure out his business so you can profit off the back of his idea is disgraceful imo.

Thats just my feelings on it.

Hammertime..

I was merely asking what business he/she thought the op was talking about so as to clarify if he was actually serious about the amount of money he was considering investing.

I was especially curious after that person said they doubted if a loan would be got EVEN THOUGH IT WAS LEGAL....surley that arouses someones curiosity as it implies that the business is in a somewhat shady sector.

If i wanted to know the business for personal gain i would have pm'd that person rather than publicly ask, i even asked if she could let the whole board (us) know firstly.

I assure you i am only curious and have no interest in being involved in retail business' whatsoever.

Lastly you say the op has been very gratefull for all posted opinions posted...Then i ask you ,why after i started to point out flaws in his business plan has he made no attempt to correspond with me publicly or privately...he has ignored any statements i have made or questions i have asked despite having contributed most to this thread.

So dont assume i am trying to profit from his as you put it HIS "idea" (although he clearly states this is a developed idea in ireland)

I have no problem with you hammertime but please with respect respond and accept that you could well be assuming wrongly here.

Yes i can see how you thought what you thought but i can assure you you thought wrong....

I contributed much to the thread and i dont see anything wrong with contributing more to the thread regardless of whether the OP does not value my opinion, just because my opinion not what they wish to hear.

Trump

I totally agree with hammertime on his last post.

The numerous attempts to find out this persons business not to mention the questioning that took place regarding the validity of his business idea was disgraceful.

Bandara

mistermarketing wrote: »

Hammertime..

I was merely asking what business he/she thought the op was talking about so as to clarify if he was actually serious about the amount of money he was considering investing.

I was especially curious after that person said they doubted if a loan would be got EVEN THOUGH IT WAS LEGAL....surley that arouses someones curiosity as it implies that the business is in a somewhat shady sector.

If i wanted to know the business for personal gain i would have pm'd that person rather than publicly ask, i even asked if she could let the whole board (us) know firstly.

I assure you i am only curious and have no interest in being involved in retail business' whatsoever.

Lastly you say the op has been very gratefull for all posted opinions posted...Then i ask you ,why after i started to point out flaws in his business plan has he made no attempt to correspond with me publicly or privately...he has ignored any statements i have made or questions i have asked despite having contributed most to this thread.

So dont assume i am trying to profit from his as you put it HIS "idea" (although he clearly states this is a developed idea in ireland)

I have no problem with you hammertime but please with respect respond and accept that you could well be assuming wrongly here.

Yes i can see how you thought what you thought but i can assure you you thought wrong....

I contributed much to the thread and i dont see anything wrong with contributing more to the thread regardless of whether the OP does not value my opinion, just because my opinion not what they wish to hear.

If I took your intentions up wrong then I absolutely hold my hands up and apologise Mistermarketing.

In my defence the statement you made was a bit vague and your intentions could be interpreted either way:

"Can you share with us what type of shop this is, OP seems not too be too interested in this topic now that we have advised him.

I am very curious as to what type of shop this is, and want to do the math and see if it is possible to open a shop for this ridiculous amount of money."

As I said if I'm wrong then please disregard my post, I'm sure you understand where I was coming from on it.

Regards
P.

Hammertime

Hammertime wrote: »

With respect this is out of order, if this forum is to have any credibility then speculation and gossip about people business ideas has no place here, either publicly or via PM.

I know for a fact that the OP is very appreciative of the advice received here and has received a lot of additional assistance via PM from posters here.

Trying to figure out his business so you can profit off the back of his idea is disgraceful imo.

Thats just my feelings on it.

Totally agree with you and really respect you for posting this. Very ethical and decent of you to defend the OP.

mistermarketing

I only asked that person as i thought OP had lost interest in the thread as had not replied...howwas i to know he had PM'D others on the thread......i was just curious and i thought that this being an open thread we would be allowed to continue to discuss the matter further out of a principal of interest, as it is a intriguing topic.

And as for people(trump and entrepreneur) who continued to post, knocking me after i had posted a reasonable explanation of a misunderstanding, i consider them to be people just licking up to hammertime.

Also why are the above mentioned posters not answering in responce to my clarification of the misunderstanding..?, intead they disregard any comments i have made in my defense and point the finger. I made valid points outlining how the misunderstanding evolved and you contue to assume i wronged the OP...ganging up against me just because someone expressed a feeling that i intended wrong

At least hammertime accepts that i was not looking to find information on the business...and i have no problem with his first post when he thought i was posteing for personal gain(i think that he was right to express his opinion, as i have done myself on many occasions on other forums), but i should be allowed to defend myself and other boards members should duly take my defence into consideration.

I am extremely intereted in business, especially entrepreneurship and wish to continue to post on this forum, but how can i be expected to happily post away when i know that at least 2 boards business members regular posters regard me as dishonest....for that reason i suspect i am going to have to register as a new boards user again...so as to remain annonomus.

Go back and read my previous post again and you may see exactly why i posted what i posted....that post being meant to cause no ill feeling to anyone.

Also in reading my posts can anyone say that i did not give the OP good feedback...?

i can see how hammertime thought what he thought, but i question society when someone cannot be declared innocent after someone point a wrongfull finger.

Trump

mistermarketing wrote: »

And as for people(trump and entrepreneur) who continued to post, knocking me after i had posted a reasonable explanation of a misunderstanding, i consider them to be people just licking up to hammertime.

Hi Mistermarketing,

I have a mind of my own and I am certainly well capable of making my own decisions.I also think that I am allowed to form a view of the content that you have posted on an open forum.

In my opinion there is a way of helping people in a constructive manner without knocking them.The mistake you made was pointed out to you and I would view this as an opportunity for you to learn from others.

I also do not think anybody expects you and nor should you change your forum name.

Best of luck

Trump

I'm my own leader thanks, if he didn't get there first, i'd have posted something identical.

Also, don't be so over sensitive, how are you meant to survive in business with that soft attitude?

Dabko

Wow, what was an interesting post with useful advice to the op and others has turned into a clash of the experienced folks! Take it outside lads and lets continue to topic in an orderly fashion:D

OP, have you considered maybe starting your business as an online venture firstly? Maybe dip your feet first, see what type of interest you may generate. After this, maybe a few months down the road, if sales are looking positive, then take the step of opening a small retail unit.

Put it this way, you can build a great online store, selling goods nationwide for as little as 1500 euro. In case it all does tits up, you have no commitments like leases to contend with, which, you can be followed legally for.

stepbar

Dabko wrote: »

Wow, what was an interesting post with useful advice to the op and others has turned into a clash of the experienced folks! Take it outside lads and lets continue to topic in an orderly fashion:D

OP, have you considered maybe starting your business as an online venture firstly? Maybe dip your feet first, see what type of interest you may generate. After this, maybe a few months down the road, if sales are looking positive, then take the step of opening a small retail unit.

Put it this way, you can build a great online store, selling goods nationwide for as little as 1500 euro. In case it all does tits up, you have no commitments like leases to contend with, which, you can be followed legally for.

If only it was that simple.

Reminds me of a chap I advised a good year ago - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=53726613&highlight=aces#post53726613 - http://www.aces-direct.com/

The website mentioned doesn't exist now. No suprise really.