Veyron is no longer the Daddy...this is.

niceirishfella

http://www.rsportscars.com/ssc/2008-ssc-ultimate-aero/

http://www.rsportscars.com/ssc/2008-ssc-ultimate-aero/pictures/6884

Berty

Not working for me.

Lambo front, R8 side and 80's corvette rear.

Cheap looking buttons in the interior.

junkyard

The name sounds and the car looks like a kit car.

SV

They made a car a tiny bit faster and sacrificed all the luxury?


I'm really really impressed.</sarcasm>

Traumadoc

Its like that car they made in Bangladesh on the "ChopShop" program

niceirishfella

Traumadoc wrote: »

Its like that car they made in Bangladesh on the "ChopShop" program

+1 - yeah, agreed.

S.I.R

niceirishfella wrote: »

http://www.rsportscars.com/ssc/2008-ssc-ultimate-aero/

http://www.rsportscars.com/ssc/2008-ssc-ultimate-aero/pictures/6884

thats old, seen the pics and spec in Car mag a year ago... :rolleyes:


also look at the gear nob, its only been put on...


Rush to the photoshoot me thinks..

TheNog

Veyron is better looking with a better name too.

Lumen

I'm sure Bugatti could just up the boost on the Veyron and beat that if they wanted to.

Attempting to out do a Veyron on top speed is completely missing the point.

Biro

Lumen wrote: »

I'm sure Bugatti could just up the boost on the Veyron and beat that if they wanted to.

Attempting to out do a Veyron on top speed is completely missing the point.

Exactly. It's everything about the Veyron that makes it such a complete and vastly impressive car. Speed is only one aspect. James May drove the Veyron at 253mph while talking to the camera. I'd be willing to bet the same couldn't be said for taking that car to it's record of only 3mph faster.
For me it's either the Veyron, twice the price of that car, or soemthing like an LP640 - half the price of that car. That just set a record. In every other respect it misses the point.

Ferris

Biro wrote: »

Exactly. It's everything about the Veyron that makes it such a complete and vastly impressive car. Speed is only one aspect. James May drove the Veyron at 253mph while talking to the camera. I'd be willing to bet the same couldn't be said for taking that car to it's record of only 3mph faster.
For me it's either the Veyron, twice the price of that car, or soemthing like an LP640 - half the price of that car. That just set a record. In every other respect it misses the point.

+1

People shouldn't forget that the Bugatti underwent similar testing to that of a Golf, A4, Octavia etc. That means that the bugatti has been built (and a service regime put in place) to do ~200K kms (or whatever lifespan that VAG engineer their cars to do). AND it'll do 253mph, AND it is comfortable to drive etc. Can't imagine that the SSR has undergone such testing or has been built to meet the same standards.

javaboy

Lumen wrote: »

Attempting to out do a Veyron on top speed is completely missing the point.

Actually I don't think it's missing the point at all. Wasn't the point of the Veyron to create the world's fastest production car irrespective of the price (after all they sell at a huge loss)? It's just like the space race or the world's tallest building. Impractical, expensive, pointless, incredible feats of engineering.

The point about the Veyron being a more comfortable car etc. is fair enough but the Veyron is all about the prestige of owning the fastest production car in the world and not about safety or comfort or anything else. I would say outdoing the Veyron on its one defining characteristic is exactly the point.

Plug

This is old enough, a peice of rubbish if you ask me. They got rid of luxurys and the whole lot to save a bit of weight. I reckon if you were in a 30moh crash in that you die!
Veyron is always going to be the daddy!

rccaulfield

Nice times 0-60, wats the veyrons times again?

Mr.David

javaboy wrote: »

Actually I don't think it's missing the point at all. Wasn't the point of the Veyron to create the world's fastest production car irrespective of the price

Yes and No.

The Veyron was intended to be the fastest car in the world, but with NO compromise, total luxury and refinement. If Bugatti were simply going for the fastest car accolade it would look more like an Ariel Atom, not a barge full of toys.

The Veyron will happily cruise down the motorway at 180mph (for 30secs or so anyway til you run it dry). It has sat nav, aircon, refinement, reliability etc.

Its the ultimate in speed and luxury. That other yoke is just a kit car. Its not a feat of engineering.

Ferris

javaboy wrote: »

Actually I don't think it's missing the point at all. Wasn't the point of the Veyron to create the world's fastest production car irrespective of the price (after all they sell at a huge loss)?

While I do agree that the point of the Veyron was to be the worlds fastest production car I see it as all the more impressive that the Veyron could reach 85% of 253mph every day for 5 years and still cool itself (initially a problem), start itself and remain reliable in general as an everyday car if required.

The SSR is not an everyday car, its a road going racer. The Bugatti is a roadgoing car. VAG could (should maybe) make a stripped out higher tune version of the Veyron that would probably blow everything else in the world away.

Anyone can make a 1000hp car too, you could with eur100k and a R34 skyline. Its making it usable thats the trick.

Lumen

The Veyron is also significantly compromised by its styling.

I forget any useful detail, but there were some major engineering problems which should have prompted a change of shape, but that got vetoed for aesthetic reasons.

I think the on-paper performance difference between something like a 9FF GT9 and an SSC is a bit academic. Driveability is everything.

Quazzie

javaboy wrote: »

I would say outdoing the Veyron on its one defining characteristic is exactly the point.

Am I missing something or has the Veywon only got "one defininig characterisitc".

I think that might be clutching at straws. The veyron is undoubtedly the 'Best' car in the world, and probably the most advanced. If Bugatti wanted they could simply strip it and make it faster. The bugatti has never gone even close to where it can go.

javaboy

Mr.David wrote: »

Yes and No.

The Veyron was intended to be the fastest car in the world, but with NO compromise, total luxury and refinement. If Bugatti were simply going for the fastest car accolade it would look more like an Ariel Atom, not a barge full of toys.

The Veyron will happily cruise down the motorway at 180mph (for 30secs or so anyway til you run it dry). It has sat nav, aircon, refinement, reliability etc.

Its the ultimate in speed and luxury. That other yoke is just a kit car. Its not a feat of engineering.

I would argue that the "ultimate in speed and luxury" is contradicts the idea of "NO compromise". There are both faster and more luxurious cars out there. So the Veyron is a compromise albeit not much of a compromise.

Ferris wrote: »

While I do agree that the point of the Veyron was to be the worlds fastest production car I see it as all the more impressive that the Veyron could reach 85% of 253mph every day for 5 years and still cool itself (initially a problem), start itself and remain reliable in general as an everyday car if required.

Fair enough but I doubt the cost of maintenance is of major concern to prospective Veyron owners. I think it's more about being able to boast about having the fastest car at the yacht club.

The SSR is not an everyday car, its a road going racer. The Bugatti is a roadgoing car. VAG could (should maybe) make a stripped out higher tune version of the Veyron that would probably blow everything else in the world away.

Anyone can make a 1000hp car too, you could with eur100k and a R34 skyline. Its making it usable thats the trick.

Don't get me wrong on this. I would choose the Veyron over the SSR myself. It's obviously the better car with a more desirable compromise of speed and luxury but the Veyron is above all else a status symbol. It's all about having the fastest road car money could buy. The existence of faster cars inevitably erodes some of that status symbol appeal.

niceirishfella

javaboy wrote: »

Don't get me wrong on this. I would choose the Veyron over the SSR myself. It's obviously the better car with a more desirable compromise of speed and luxury but the Veyron is above all else a status symbol. It's all about having the fastest road car money could buy. The existence of faster cars inevitably erodes some of that status symbol appeal.

+1

This is the best point so far.
You could (if you were lucky enough to own the bugatti) no longer say to anyone that i own the worlds fastest production car, because it is no longer "the Daddy"in the speed stakes.

However, it is still "the Daddy" for me in all others.
Also, someone stated this was old news - well as the OP, I only stumbled accross it on the CNN.com website in jay leno's garage yesterday. It was news to me.
I think the reason it was made was to take the fastest production world record to the USA - and away from the Germans.

good debate tho.:P

Biro

javaboy wrote: »

Actually I don't think it's missing the point at all. Wasn't the point of the Veyron to create the world's fastest production car irrespective of the price (after all they sell at a huge loss)? It's just like the space race or the world's tallest building. Impractical, expensive, pointless, incredible feats of engineering.

There's a difference in the tallest building in the world being something like the World Trade Centre and the tallest building in the world being the Spire on O'Connell St.
You do have a point in the top speed thing, but here's another slant on it. THey closed a road to achieve the top speed on that car. If you buy a Veyron, they'll let you do 253mph in either the Veyron you just bought or one of theirs. Me, I'd do it in mine. Then you can go to the Golf course and ask "What did you take her up to? I took mine to 253mph!". I'll bet the response of the SSC owners won't be similar!
Also, I bet if you raced them both over some Cavan roads on a wet day the Veyron would come out on top!!
Besides all this - isn't there a higher powered Veyron being planned?

Ferris

javaboy wrote: »

Don't get me wrong on this. I would choose the Veyron over the SSR myself. It's obviously the better car with a more desirable compromise of speed and luxury but the Veyron is above all else a status symbol. It's all about having the fastest road car money could buy. The existence of faster cars inevitably erodes some of that status symbol appeal.

Your point is well made. If VAG wanted they could simply strip out a Veyron and produce a lighter version simply enough. Then it would easily beat the SSR. Why they haven't done this I don't know. A limited run of lightweight models would have put this issue to bed long ago.

Maybe they don't want to start a pace race

Biro

Ferris wrote: »

Your point is well made. If VAG wanted they could simply strip out a Veyron and produce a lighter version simply enough. Then it would easily beat the SSR. Why they haven't done this I don't know. A limited run of lightweight models would have put this issue to bed long ago.

Maybe they don't want to start a pace race

Maybe they were waiting to see the record this set before releasing the quicker version. Still unconfirmed.

javaboy

Biro wrote: »

You do have a point in the top speed thing, but here's another slant on it. THey closed a road to achieve the top speed on that car. If you buy a Veyron, they'll let you do 253mph in either the Veyron you just bought or one of theirs. Me, I'd do it in mine. Then you can go to the Golf course and ask "What did you take her up to? I took mine to 253mph!". I'll bet the response of the SSC owners won't be similar!

I don't get your point. Do you mean the SSC drivers would be afraid to go as fast?

Also, I bet if you raced them both over some Cavan roads on a wet day the Veyron would come out on top!!

And a WRC car would probably beat the Veyron in Cavan. And a Yaris would beat them all for fuel consumption. And a Multipla would fit more in. And a tank would do better in a crash. et cetera et cetera. Different cars for different jobs.

Biro

javaboy wrote: »

I don't get your point. Do you mean the SSC drivers would be afraid to go as fast?

No, they wouldn't be afraid to go fast. But if the car needed a closed highway to reach it's top speed, then what are the chances of someone going along, buying one and asking "sorry, does anyone mind if I close this highway here?".
On the other hand, go along and buy a Veyron and be handed the keys and asked "would you like to drive your car at it's top speed?".
What's the point in a top speed if you can't do it? You can in a Veyron. Where can you do it in the SSC? Therefore it's a tad pointless.

Biro

javaboy wrote: »

And a WRC car would probably beat the Veyron in Cavan. And a Yaris would beat them all for fuel consumption. And a Multipla would fit more in. And a tank would do better in a crash. et cetera et cetera. Different cars for different jobs.

Ah - but you see we're not comparing a WRC car to the SSC or the Veyron here. The two cars in question are the two cars that have held the record for top speed for a production road car. 3mph seperates them as far as the record books are concerned, but far more seperates them in every other respect.

Vegeta

Biro wrote: »

On the other hand, go along and buy a Veyron and be handed the keys and asked "would you like to drive your car at it's top speed?".

Do they actually take you on a test drive at 253 on the open road if you buy a Veyron?

javaboy

Biro wrote: »

No, they wouldn't be afraid to go fast. But if the car needed a closed highway to reach it's top speed, then what are the chances of someone going along, buying one and asking "sorry, does anyone mind if I close this highway here?".
On the other hand, go along and buy a Veyron and be handed the keys and asked "would you like to drive your car at it's top speed?".
What's the point in a top speed if you can't do it? You can in a Veyron. Where can you do it in the SSC? Therefore it's a tad pointless.

There are precious few roads where you can do it in a Veyron either. Also I doubt too many Veyron owners will take them up to the top speed more than a couple of times in their lifetime. In fact I'd guess that a huge amount of them will spend their days doing little more than sleeping under a cloth in garages or ferrying their owners at low speeds around the streets of Monte Carlo. Imo it's simply the capability to do those speeds that attracts the people who can actually afford them, not the actual prospect of achieving them.

Biro wrote: »

Ah - but you see we're not comparing a WRC car to the SSC or the Veyron here. The two cars in question are the two cars that have held the record for top speed for a production road car.

Agreed but then you're using a silly test to compare them. I can come up with plenty of tests where the SSC beats the Veyron and plenty where the Veyron beats the SSC. But most of them will be irrelevant. The test that really matters with these cars is top speed.

3mph seperates them as far as the record books are concerned, but far more seperates them in every other respect.

You're right of course but the importance of those 3mph in the difference cannot be underestimated. You don't fork out the bug bucks for a Veyron to get the second or third fastest road car in the world. You want the fastest.

Vegeta

javaboy wrote: »

You want the fastest.

Would it be fair to say that the Veyron is, one of, if not the greatest examples of automotive engineering to date?

So maybe people buy them to have one of the best cars (if not the best car) ever made rather than trying to buy the fastest?

Saruman

Is there not a Veyron that can do closer to 300mph? Or is that one yet to be released?

javaboy

Vegeta wrote: »

Would it be fair to say that the Veyron is, one of, if not the greatest examples of automotive engineering to date?

So maybe people buy them to have one of the best cars (if not the best car) ever made rather than trying to buy the fastest?

Yes I'd say it's easily one of the best and quite possibly the best example of automotive engineering to date. And yes people buy them to have the best or one of the best cars.

The issue here isn't really with sales. AFAIK they can't make enough Veyrons to meet demand and I don't expect the SSC or similar to change that any time soon. But sales of Veyrons aren't important. Bugatti lose money on the Veyron whether they sell it or not. The issue is prestige. The Veyron is a statement of what VW is capable of. Just like the skyscrapers in Dubai, it's impractical and inefficient and too expensive but that's not the point. It's about demonstrating power and technical prowess.

If another production car is outdoing the Veyron on top speed, the impact of that statement is reduced.