Matt Cooper - Driving in Hard Shoulder

Rowie

I drive the full length of the M50 twice a day and I cannot believe some of the appaulling driving being exhibited.

It is common to be undertaken at high speed in whatever lane the car behind you chooses (even though you are doing in excess of the max speed limit yourself)

Drivers automatically think that because the have indicated to change lanes this gives them the right to immediately pull out forcing you to take avoiding action (jamming on!)

The inability for slower drivers not to use the far right lane, even though the other 2/3 lanes have no traffic in them.

I am amazed given the volume of traffic on this road there isn't more fatalities.

I'm not saying I'm Mr Right, but when you witness this everyday, it does leave you wondering if some else's actions are going to jepordise your life today!

Anan1

Rowie wrote: »

It is common to be undertaken at high speed in whatever lane the car behind you chooses (even though you are doing in excess of the max speed limit yourself)

How can you be in the correct lane and still be regularly undertaken by other cars?

Voodoomelon

GreeBo wrote: »

Again, I dont see why you think its ok to break the law when it comes to speeding, but driving in lane 2 is a severe no no? Speeding is just as inconsiderate and dangerous to other drivers who may pull out to overtake at 100kph and not realise that you are doing 150kph behind them.

Because that journey was very different to driving in Ireland. The general pace of motorways in England is much faster than over here. Driving in different countries demands different driving styles. Like another poster said, if you were doing 70mph, you were the slowest car on the road (that day certainly).

I put it to you that it was actually safer to maintain a higher speed, keep up with the rest of the traffic and avoid having everyone constantly overtake you for the sake of principles. And I was trying to make the ferry. :pac:

oddone

Joker wrote: »

There are plans for increases, but the reduced budget this year will probably dampen that one.



Our presence on roads is decided by senior officers, who are not interested in road safety, only promotions and high returns. I would like to be able to say we do our best, but that's not the case now. Our higher officers have no interest in preventing accidents, only in wasting resources and keeping the speeding returns low. When the privatised system is introduced, the returns will skyrocket; the govt will declare it a success and the RSA lapdogs will wag their tails.

Thanks for the reply. That is quite shocking.

craichoe

Rowie wrote: »

I drive the full length of the M50 twice a day and I cannot believe some of the appaulling driving being exhibited.

It is common to be undertaken at high speed in whatever lane the car behind you chooses (even though you are doing in excess of the max speed limit yourself)

Drivers automatically think that because the have indicated to change lanes this gives them the right to immediately pull out forcing you to take avoiding action (jamming on!)

The inability for slower drivers not to use the far right lane, even though the other 2/3 lanes have no traffic in them.

I am amazed given the volume of traffic on this road there isn't more fatalities.

I'm not saying I'm Mr Right, but when you witness this everyday, it does leave you wondering if some else's actions are going to jepordise your life today!

How can people be undertaking you if you are overtaking ?

Mitch Connor

craichoe wrote: »

How can people be undertaking you if you are overtaking ?

if you wish to move faster than the traffic in the overtaking lane, should you sit in the driving lane, wait for them to pull in then overtake them?

Capt'n Midnight

GreeBo wrote: »

You are actually making me cry with this rot you keep posting. The unwritten rule is the one about drivers in lane 1 allowing mergers to join.

1) We dont have 100% good drivers on the roads..

100% ?
For stuff like not blocking ambulances and fire engines by illegally driving in the bus lane OR keepint to the speed limit in the 50Kph ring roads a 2% compliance level without visible enforcement seems to be an unrealistic goal.

The rule is you yield to traffic in the lane you are entering.
If they want to be nice it's one and one , if not then if you haven't merged by the end of the acceleration lane then you should STOP and wait for a gap. This make take a while.

The root principle is that traffic with a lesser priority should not cause traffic on the main road to slow down. It's not about if they should be easily able to avoid you by slowing or moving to another lane, it's about traffic on side roads not disrupting the flow of the one with right of way.

[rant]
Similarily with roundabouts. In other countries people seem to be able to merge with those crossing their paths without any major change in speed or delay. Here on the rare instances when the person on the left actually indicates correctly and moves in predictable manner, people seem incapable of figuring out how big the gap is and either accelerate into a half second gap or jam on when just across the line , especially if you are right behind them and made the fatal mistake of looking to the left at the milk float just appearing on the horizon.[/rant]

GreeBo

Anan1 wrote: »

GreeBo does not hold a full license and therefore cannot legally drive on motorways.

GreeBo

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Because that journey was very different to driving in Ireland. The general pace of motorways in England is much faster than over here.

and yet they still seem to have speed limits over there. You should really tell them that their general pace is faster than the posted limit. Im sure theyd change it if someone would just let them know.

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I put it to you that it was actually safer to maintain a higher speed, keep up with the rest of the traffic and avoid having everyone constantly overtake you for the sake of principles. And I was trying to make the ferry. :pac:

I put it to you that you could have stayed in lane 1 and driven at the speed limit. I also put it to you that making the ferry mas foremost in your mind and the hell with everything else?;)

GreeBo

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

100% ?
For stuff like not blocking ambulances and fire engines by illegally driving in the bus lane OR keepint to the speed limit in the 50Kph ring roads a 2% compliance level without visible enforcement seems to be an unrealistic goal.

too true.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The rule is you yield to traffic in the lane you are entering.
If they want to be nice it's one and one , if not then if you haven't merged by the end of the acceleration lane then you should STOP and wait for a gap. This make take a while.

If this takes a while then the traffic is backing up behind you and more than likely causing chaos somewhere else as some twit has blocked a yellow box in an effort to keep his place in the merge queue. Hence why I think merging lanes are useful.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

[rant]
Similarily with roundabouts. In other countries people seem to be able to merge with those crossing their paths without any major change in speed or delay. Here on the rare instances when the person on the left actually indicates correctly and moves in predictable manner, people seem incapable of figuring out how big the gap is and either accelerate into a half second gap or jam on when just across the line , especially if you are right behind them and made the fatal mistake of looking to the left at the milk float just appearing on the horizon.[/rant]

Happened me a few months ago at spawell roundabout. Its a two (if not 3) lane roundabout that was empty but the guy in front decided to move off and then stop suddenly. As he moved off I was looking right to check for my gap (and yes crawling forward) Nudged him at about 5kph.
I've decided that Irish people in general are unable to stay in a lane unless they are driving straight ahead. The number of times the person in the inside lane will drive straight through a roundabout in lane 1.5 is just mind boggling. Then, just to totally confuse you they randomly indicate right and beep at you when they cut you off at the second exit.:rolleyes:

NeMiSiS

Never in as long as I can remember have I had an issue merging onto a motorway, or caused anyone issue in doing it. I am perfectly able to merge my car onto a motorway without assistance of people changing lanes to assist me , thank you.

It's the complete tools who do not match the speed of the traffic flow that cause issues. Similarly you quite often see people joining early and crossing hatched markings, when they should continue to the end of the merging lane.

As for road users stopping at the end of the merging lane if they have the inability to merge, I agree with this also, driving on motorways in Spain you will come across merging lanes where you have to do exactly that.

Motorway driving here as stated numerous times is a complete and utter joke, with people believing they have bizarre entitlements on the road and creating their own rules e.g.
They must move over to let me merge - you may do this but there is no obligation to do so, and when people do "move over" they rarely if ever match the speed of the lane they are moving too.

Traffic must move over to let them merge. Traffic should certainly facilitate space for you to merge, but this also assumes you should be traveling at the correct speed and aware of your surroundings.

I am in the "fast lane"

There's a truck several kilometers up the road, so I will just stay where I am.

There's a merging lane 2 to 3 kilometers up the road so I will stay where I am.

People change lanes without considering the speed of the traffic in that lane .. because they see a truck coming onto a merging lane.

I'm doing the speed limit in the "fast lane" why should I get out of their way.

And it goes on and on..

Jesus it's a litany of idiocy.

I mean what the **** is so hard to understand "Keep left unless overtaking".

Voodoomelon

GreeBo wrote: »

and yet they still seem to have speed limits over there. You should really tell them that their general pace is faster than the posted limit. Im sure theyd change it if someone would just let them know.



I put it to you that you could have stayed in lane 1 and driven at the speed limit. I also put it to you that making the ferry mas foremost in your mind and the hell with everything else?;)

Not at all, for the first 3-4 hours I had no idea I was going to be late for the ferry. During that time, i was trying to keep it under the limit as I was driving a car that i only just bought, but the general pace was intimidating to the point where I just said f**k it and just did the same speed as everyone else which was in the region of 80mph+. Only when I reached Wales did I begin to realise I was going to be late, so put the foot down in lane 3 where everyone was doing 90mph+.

I fully understand that it's an overtaking lane but the english do the same as us and use it as a "fast lane". Back here I sit in lane 1 with the cruise control set to 120kmph and overtake when necessary, but lane 3 in england seems to be used soley for people on a mission to get somewhere extremely quickly.

-Chris-

GreeBo wrote: »

Happened me a few months ago at spawell roundabout. Its a two (if not 3) lane roundabout that was empty but the guy in front decided to move off and then stop suddenly. As he moved off I was looking right to check for my gap (and yes crawling forward) Nudged him at about 5kph.

Is it possible that we've found the cause of all the confusion?

GreeBo, do you have an issue with maintaining the proper braking distance between you and the car in front? Do you have occasional lapses in observation that could lead to frequent "near misses" and the occasional Nudge?

If so, I would completely understand why you would want to stay in the safety of Lane 2, where you're less likely to come across people trying to merge into your lane (you haven't left enough braking distance for them anyway...) and where you don't need to pay attention to people joining from the left?
When you're always in the overtaking lane, it's simple - your only concern is the person barrelling down behind you at an illegal speed...

Esel

I prefer lane 1.5 meself. Nudge nudge.

javaboy

AudiChris wrote: »

Is it possible that we've found the cause of all the confusion?

GreeBo, do you have an issue with maintaining the proper braking distance between you and the car in front? Do you have occasional lapses in observation that could lead to frequent "near misses" and the occasional Nudge?

+1. That car could have stopped at the roundabout for any number of reasons. My gf was out on a lesson at a signal free T-junction. She started to move off but stalled and some eejit did the exact same thing. Assumed she had moved off and rolled into the back of her.

GreeBo

javaboy wrote: »

+1. That car could have stopped at the roundabout for any number of reasons. My gf was out on a lesson at a signal free T-junction. She started to move off but stalled and some eejit did the exact same thing. Assumed she had moved off and rolled into the back of her.

The any number of reasons were that there was another car on the roundabout 2 lanes away from him turning right. He was turning left. But heaven forbid we have more than one person on a roundabout in Ireland.

Assuming she had her plates up (or in a learner car) then the driver behind should have been expecting her to do "beginner" things. Especially stalling in a stressful scenario like this.

GreeBo

AudiChris wrote: »

GreeBo, do you have an issue with maintaining the proper braking distance between you and the car in front?

Erm whats the correct braking distance when you are stopped?

He moved off, then I moved off at 5kph, again maintaining the correct braking distance for the speed I was traveling at. (You do know its dependent on your speed right?) He then stopped for no reason while I was looking the other way.

Its no different than the car in front of you in lane 1 stopping for no reason while checking your mirror to overtake it.

GreeBo

esel wrote: »

I prefer lane 1.5 meself. Nudge nudge.

Keep up the good work.

-Chris-

GreeBo wrote: »

Erm whats the correct braking distance when you are stopped?

You should be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear. That's the general guideline.
I also try and obey the "tyres and tarmac" rule when I'm completely stopped.

If you impact another vehicle, you obviously haven't left enough braking distance for what you're doing.

If you're in traffic and about to enter a roundabout, doing 5kmph, you should wait until the car in front is gone before you start to plan your entry.

Zulu

GreeBo wrote: »

then I moved off at 5kph, again maintaining the correct braking distance for the speed I was traveling at. (You do know its dependent on your speed right?) He then stopped for no reason while I was looking the other way.

Well, seeing as you crashed, it would appear there was something wrong with your breaking distance. That, or you weren't paying appropriate attention to where you were actually going.

Either way, you were in the wrong.
Again.

GreeBo

Zulu wrote: »

Well, seeing as you crashed, it would appear there was something wrong with your breaking distance. That, or you weren't paying appropriate attention to where you were actually going.

I'm not denying that I wasnt paying attention to the car in front of me. He had already gone in my mind.

Zulu wrote: »

Either way, you were in the wrong.
Again.

:rolleyes:
What, no "Fail" messages this time? If nothing else then at least this thread has stopped that sad behaviour.

Zulu

GreeBo wrote: »

:rolleyes:
What, no "Fail" messages this time? If nothing else then at least this thread has stopped that sad behaviour.

I was afraid of getting a beating


...oh and:
Fail.

javaboy

GreeBo wrote: »

The any number of reasons were that there was another car on the roundabout 2 lanes away from him turning right. He was turning left. But heaven forbid we have more than one person on a roundabout in Ireland.

And what if it had been something beyond his control. What if his car had conked out for some reason instead of him stopping it himself.

Assuming she had her plates up (or in a learner car) then the driver behind should have been expecting her to do "beginner" things. Especially stalling in a stressful scenario like this.

She did have her plates up. The driver behind should have done the same thing you should have done i.e. paid attention to where you were going and not rear-end anyone. Sure it's expected more from learners but you still have to look where you're going no matter who is in front of you.

GreeBo wrote: »

Erm whats the correct braking distance when you are stopped?

Erm stopped is not the same thing as 5kph.

He moved off, then I moved off at 5kph, again maintaining the correct braking distance for the speed I was traveling at. (You do know its dependent on your speed right?) He then stopped for no reason while I was looking the other way.

Actually the correct braking distance would have taken into account the delay in reaction time due to you looking the other way to check for traffic on the roundabout. So no you weren't maintaining the correct braking distance. Otherwise you wouldn't have ran into the back of him.

Its no different than the car in front of you in lane 1 stopping for no reason while checking your mirror to overtake it.

Sigh. You don't seem to get the idea of "braking distance". If the car in lane 1 suddenly stops and you were keeping an appropriate distance, you should be able to stop short of it.

GreeBo wrote: »

I'm not denying that I wasnt paying attention to the car in front of me. He had already gone in my mind.

So are you admitting it was your fault or not?

I.S.T.

GreeBo wrote: »

I'm not denying that I wasnt paying attention to the car in front of me. He had already gone in my mind.


:rolleyes:
What, no "Fail" messages this time? If nothing else then at least this thread has stopped that sad behaviour.

Now if only we could stamp out the quotes around "random" words for "no reason" everyone would be happy.

GreeBo

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

Now if only we could stamp out the quotes around "random" words for "no reason" everyone would be happy.

The clue is in the word you used. Quotes. I was quoting Zulu's other posts.
"If you were to read a book or two you would see it a lot"; GreeBo said, shaking his head sadly.

"Quotes are also used to indicate words used ironically, with reservations, or in some unusual way."
There, I did it again. Now if you are a good little minion you can run along and google that quote to see where I got it from.


"Fail" from Zulu et al (c) 2008

-Chris-

GreeBo wrote: »

Now if you are a good little minion you can run along...

GreeBo wrote: »

...that sad behaviour.

GreeBo wrote: »

You are actually making me cry with this rot you keep posting...

GreeBo wrote: »

Audi_Chris and your good self have proven yourselves particularly inept at this...

GreeBo wrote: »

Wow, checking how many posts someone else posted on a thread, I think someone needs to get out more often...

GreeBo wrote: »

...Dont be a tool.

GreeBo wrote: »

...Oh and welcome to Ignoresville, population 2.

GreeBo wrote: »

...Another "Debater of the Year Award" candidate methinks.

GreeBo wrote: »

...Actually its not funny, its just sad. Sad for you.

GreeBo wrote: »

...Logical reasoning and an ability to read and retain more than one post/point at time seem to be abilities sorely lacking on this thread.

I think it's fair at this point to say that I think you should mind your tone GreeBo, you seem to be making a lot of personal comments/attacks in your posts.

I'm not sure if it's constructive.

keane2097

This thread is easily the most futile thing I've ever seen...

GreeBo

javaboy wrote: »

And what if it had been something beyond his control. What if his car had conked out for some reason instead of him stopping it himself.



She did have her plates up. The driver behind should have done the same thing you should have done i.e. paid attention to where you were going and not rear-end anyone. Sure it's expected more from learners but you still have to look where you're going no matter who is in front of you.

Im not debating any of this. In this instance he stopped because he wasnt able to negotiate a roundabout that was already containing another car.

Actually the correct braking distance would have taken into account the delay in reaction time due to you looking the other way to check for traffic on the roundabout. So no you weren't maintaining the correct braking distance. Otherwise you wouldn't have ran into the back of him.

javaboy wrote: »

Sigh. You don't seem to get the idea of "braking distance". If the car in lane 1 suddenly stops and you were keeping an appropriate distance, you should be able to stop short of it.

The point I was making was that if you are checking your mirror prior to overtaking 1) you are not going to have the same reaction times as if you were just following the guy in front. and 2) you will be accelerating as part of your overtaking, again reducing your breaking distance.

99% of the time none of this will be a problem, but if it happens to coincide with you checking a mirror/blindspot etc then it can be.

Let me preempt the replies of. "you should increase your distance to the car in front before you overtake" and answer it with "yeah like everyone does"...

javaboy wrote: »

So are you admitting it was your fault or not?

Yes. I never said otherwise. I was using it as an example of people not being able to use roundabouts that contain other cars.

GreeBo

keane2097 wrote: »

This thread is easily the most futile thing I've ever seen...

Just accept my point of view and it will all go easier. I think you'll find that its resistance that's futile.

towger

There's plenty of hot air in this thread !:D