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Matt Cooper - Driving in Hard Shoulder

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24567…12

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    #32
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    quirke_folder wrote: »
    You MAY pass on the left if the car on your right is travelling slower than you and you are not breaking the speed limit.
    This is a common misconception. You may pass on the left in slow-moving traffic. This has never been defined, but most people would understand it as queues of traffic, ie morning rush-hour.


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    #33
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,641 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Easy Rider wrote: »
    Anybody ever drive in Portugal? Mental they are, on small roads they will overtake on long bends.....I have seen several near misses on just one small stretch of road....

    Not sure, but would not be suprised if there road death rate is high...

    THey used to have the worst record in Europe but it has improved in recent years.

    Btw, overtaking on bends on narrow roads is not indiginous to Portugal. Anyway who drives outside of Dublin can confirm it happens in Ireland too


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    #34
    Jack Bauer999
    Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭Jack Bauer999


    Matt contested that if they are driving at the full speed limit then how could people need to overtake. Conor pointed out that the ROTR are such that you must drive in the left hand most lane and that by blocking people from overtaking constitutes dangerous driving and also its the Gardai's job to police the roads not theirs.


    So did Conor actually answer the question above put to him?
    Pointing out incosiderate drivers hoggin the overtaking lane doesnt answer the
    question, If the cars in the left cars are travelling at 120 kph, then anyone overtaking is breaking the law.


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    #35
    Biro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭Biro


    Jack Bauer999 wrote: »
    Matt contested that if they are driving at the full speed limit then how could people need to overtake. Conor pointed out that the ROTR are such that you must drive in the left hand most lane and that by blocking people from overtaking constitutes dangerous driving and also its the Gardai's job to police the roads not theirs.


    So did Conor actually answer the question above put to him?
    Pointing out incosiderate drivers hoggin the overtaking lane doesnt answer the
    question, If the cars in the left cars are travelling at 120 kph, then anyone overtaking is breaking the law.

    If you are in the left lane and your speedo is showing 120kph, I could possibly be in the right lane overtaking you with my speedo also showing 120kph. Who are you to say whether I'm breaking the law or not? Which speedo is correct? Neither one is the correct answer. So don't judge, just drive your own drive and keep left unless over taking. It really isn't that complicated, and it really isn't up to anyone to wonder about other people's speed. If you feel like they are driving dangerously then report them. Cops usually will let people off for a few kph over the speed limit, as it's not really a threat to anyone. Speed isn't the killer, it's inappropriate use of speed that's the killer.


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    #36
    randomer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭randomer


    Jack Bauer999 wrote: »
    So did Conor actually answer the question above put to him?
    Pointing out incosiderate drivers hoggin the overtaking lane doesnt answer the
    question, If the cars in the left cars are travelling at 120 kph, then anyone overtaking is breaking the law.

    One answer to this is whether the car is really travelling at 120kph. The speedometer in cars can have a tollerance upto 15%. In my car for example, when the speedometer says I am travelling at 120kph, the tom tom says I am travlelling at 111kph.

    But the point of the argument is that the "overtaking" lane should only be used for overtaking. Once you have completed the overtaking manoevre you should return back to the left lane. On a three lane road you can return to the middle lane.


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    #37
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    Jack Bauer999 wrote: »
    Matt contested that if they are driving at the full speed limit then how could people need to overtake. Conor pointed out that the ROTR are such that you must drive in the left hand most lane and that by blocking people from overtaking constitutes dangerous driving and also its the Gardai's job to police the roads not theirs.


    So did Conor actually answer the question above put to him?
    Pointing out incosiderate drivers hoggin the overtaking lane doesnt answer the
    question, If the cars in the left cars are travelling at 120 kph, then anyone overtaking is breaking the law.
    From what you quoted above, it would seem to me that Conor answered the question but Matt didn't.


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    #38
    I.S.T.
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭I.S.T.


    Jack Bauer999 wrote: »
    Matt contested that if they are driving at the full speed limit then how could people need to overtake. Conor pointed out that the ROTR are such that you must drive in the left hand most lane and that by blocking people from overtaking constitutes dangerous driving and also its the Gardai's job to police the roads not theirs.


    So did Conor actually answer the question above put to him?
    Pointing out incosiderate drivers hoggin the overtaking lane doesnt answer the
    question, If the cars in the left cars are travelling at 120 kph, then anyone overtaking is breaking the law.

    It was a stupid question by Matt. There are lots of people who may need to overtake, unmarked Garda, doctor, Government minister (:mad:). Conor was right to give the answer he did. Too many people think their job is to uphold the law and put others lives at risk by doing so. Why don't they join the Guards if they feel like that?


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    #39
    Ferris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,287 ✭✭✭Ferris


    randomer wrote: »
    One answer to this is whether the car is really travelling at 120kph. The speedometer in cars can have a tollerance upto 15%. In my car for example, when the speedometer says I am travelling at 120kph, the tom tom says I am travlelling at 111kph.

    But the point of the argument is that the "overtaking" lane should only be used for overtaking. Once you have completed the overtaking manoevre you should return back to the left lane. On a three lane road you can return to the middle lane.

    +1

    Also peoples attention can drift away from what speed they are doing and the car can easily slow by a significant degree, this happens a lot in Ireland IMO. Also in Europe they actually do 120kmph all the time in the left lane so the system is a lot more efficient.

    In reality european drivers regularly speed by 10-20kmph over the limit on motorways, there is little enforcement of speed limits unless the speed is excessive. Anyone who has been on the M6 tollroad past Birmingham and doing 70mph will attest to being the slowest car on the road. The cops do no care as the risk is so low.


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    #40
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    What is the recommended lane to drive in on 3 (or more) laned motorways?
    I always drive in the middle one as it makes it easier to overtake and also means that Im not constantly avoiding merging cars in the inside lane.
    People driving bumper to bumper doing 100 in the inside lane are a pain in the ass as the create queues on the on ramps which then leads to cars actually stopping making merging even worse.


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    #41
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    GreeBo wrote: »
    What is the recommended lane to drive in on 3 (or more) laned motorways?
    I always drive in the middle one as it makes it easier to overtake and also means that Im not constantly avoiding merging cars in the inside lane.
    People driving bumper to bumper doing 100 in the inside lane are a pain in the ass as the create queues on the on ramps which then leads to cars actually stopping making merging even worse.
    Drive in the left lane, use the lane to your right to overtake. DO NOT DRIVE IN THE MIDDLE LANE, it's both illegal and inconsiderate.


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    #42
    R.O.R
    Registered Users Posts: 12,685 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    GreeBo wrote: »
    What is the recommended lane to drive in on 3 (or more) laned motorways?
    I always drive in the middle one as it makes it easier to overtake and also means that Im not constantly avoiding merging cars in the inside lane.
    People driving bumper to bumper doing 100 in the inside lane are a pain in the ass as the create queues on the on ramps which then leads to cars actually stopping making merging even worse.

    Left lane, unless overtaking.

    May I sugest reading a useful book called "Rules of the Road", or maybe some additional driver training?


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    #43
    Slig
    Registered Users Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭Slig


    voxpop wrote: »
    sure we have only had the last 10-15 years to upgrade our roads. Before that we were a relatively poor country. Germany/France/Uk/etc have had a large head start on building motorways and decent roads. Bit of perspective maybe

    We have just come out of a phenominal 10 year building boom when all the funds and iniatives were available to improve our infrastructure. The results speak for themselves.


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    #44
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    R.O.R wrote: »
    Left lane, unless overtaking.

    May I sugest reading a useful book called "Rules of the Road", or maybe some additional driver training?

    So all the traffic drives at the speed limit in the very left lane, making it impossible for anyone to merge and we have two empty outside lanes?:confused:


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    #45
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Anan1 wrote: »
    Drive in the left lane, use the lane to your right to overtake. DO NOT DRIVE IN THE MIDDLE LANE, it's both illegal and inconsiderate.

    How is it illegal exactly?


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    #46
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Jack Bauer999 wrote: »
    So did Conor actually answer the question above put to him?
    Pointing out incosiderate drivers hoggin the overtaking lane doesnt answer the
    question, If the cars in the left cars are travelling at 120 kph, then anyone overtaking is breaking the law.
    Perhaps they're speeding, perhaps they aren't. It doesn't matter.


    If you're not overtaking, you've no business in the overtaking lane.

    Bottom line: if you are not overtaking and you are in the overtaking lane, you are both an inconsiderate, and a bad driver.


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    #47
    Ferris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,287 ✭✭✭Ferris


    GreeBo wrote: »
    So all the traffic drives at the speed limit in the very left lane, making it impossible for anyone to merge and we have two empty outside lanes?:confused:

    They dont seem to have this problem in France where it is largely possible to do 120klms in one hour spending 75% in the right (left in our case) lane.


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    #48
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    GreeBo wrote: »
    How is it illegal exactly?
    Now you're scaring me. Read this: http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/on-the-motorway.html


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    #49
    randomer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭randomer


    Anan1 wrote: »
    Drive in the left lane, use the lane to your right to overtake. DO NOT DRIVE IN THE MIDDLE LANE, it's both illegal and inconsiderate.

    I have to disagree with you here.

    On a three lane motorway it is acceptable to drive in the middle lane, because there will usually be slower moving traffic in the left lane, such as HGVs.

    As far as I remember it is acceptable to drive in the second lane of a three lane motorway, provided the left lane is moving slower.


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    #50
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    On a three-lane motorway, you may stay in this centre lane while there is slower moving traffic in lane 1.
    from RSA
    When is there not slower moving traffic in the lane 1?


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    #51
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Anan1 wrote: »
    Now you're scaring me. Read this: http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/on-the-motorway.html

    Thats not law.


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    #52
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    randomer wrote: »
    I have to disagree with you here.

    On a three lane motorway it is acceptable to drive in the middle lane, because there will usually be slower moving traffic in the left lane, such as HGVs.

    As far as I remember it is acceptable to drive in the second lane of a three lane motorway, provided the left lane is moving slower.
    Yes, because then you're overtaking.;)


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    #53
    voxpop
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭voxpop


    Slig wrote: »
    We have just come out of a phenominal 10 year building boom when all the funds and iniatives were available to improve our infrastructure. The results speak for themselves.


    Im not saying that the money could have been used better, but comparing a long-term "rich" country like Germany, which would have been investing in their road for the last 60 years to Ireland which has had about 10 years is a bit naive. Of course their roads are going to be better than ours.


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    #54
    Rowley Birkin QC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Rowley Birkin QC


    peasant wrote: »

    Also, Germany IS the country where they use the gunsight of a Leopard II tank as a speed camera


    Seriously?

    That is pretty cool in fairness.


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    #55
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    randomer wrote: »
    As far as I remember it is acceptable to drive in the second lane of a three lane motorway, provided the left lane is moving slower.
    ...so it's ok to drive in the middle lane when you're overtaking then? Isn't that what you're saying??


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    #56
    KhanTheMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 292 ✭✭KhanTheMan


    Pay to drive on the hard shoulder?

    Ahh i see what the plan is. ANOTHER stealth tax.

    Wait for John Gormley to spot this one and come up with some "Green" reason to implement it so the govt can gouge our pockets for even more money.


    VOTE GREEN - We'll figure out more ways to tax you.


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    #57
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,987 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Thats not law.

    One of the principle parts of the road traffic act is "keep left", this is what you're breaking if in the outer lanes when not overtaking. And that IS law.


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    #58
    I.S.T.
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭I.S.T.


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Thats not law.

    Just accept you are wrong, it is easier on everyone.


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    #59
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »
    Just accept you are wrong, it is easier on everyone.
    :rolleyes:Thanks for your contribution.

    So whats the argument for not driving in the "middle" lane?
    Seems to make more sense to me, you have a lane for merging on/off the motorway and you have a lane for overtaking with a "Driving and not coming off anytime soon" lane in the middle.


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    #60
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,987 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    GreeBo wrote: »
    :rolleyes:Thanks for your contribution.

    So whats the argument for not driving in the "middle" lane?
    Seems to make more sense to me, you have a lane for merging on/off the motorway and you have a lane for overtaking with a "Driving and not coming off anytime soon" lane in the middle.

    The argument is that the law states you must keep left. Simple as.

    The inside lane is for driving in. The middle lane is for overtaking it. The outer lane is for overtaking people who are overtaking. If there is a 4th lane like some motorways in England have, this is for overtaking people who are overtaking those that are overtaking.

    Its people like you that cause traffic congestion on the N7 - driving in the middle lane reduces the functional capacity of the road quite significantly.


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    #61
    I.S.T.
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭I.S.T.


    GreeBo wrote: »
    :rolleyes:Thanks for your contribution.

    So whats the argument for not driving in the "middle" lane?
    Seems to make more sense to me, you have a lane for merging on/off the motorway and you have a lane for overtaking with a "Driving and not coming off anytime soon" lane in the middle.

    Do you want to write your own rules of the road or what? It's illegal to undertake so if you sit in the middle lane at 80kmh then nobody can use the left lane if they are going faster than you. What if you don't want to merge/leave the motorway and want to drive at 80kmh (120kmh speed limit). Where should you drive under your rules?


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